@caelith - I agree to some degree. The problem with messing with stat parameters is that you start affecting PvE as well which we all must admit is the largest portion of this game. If you lower crit bonuses, then you bring down avg. DPS in general. If you buff HP only somewhat, that'll bring down the probability of 1-shots but you'll just turn them into 2-shots. That's not much of an improvement given that most engagements don't start at full HP or you can make it that way w/ 1 encounter power or at-will rotation.
The main reason why PvP(arguably PvE as well) gets stale most of the time is because there is a dominant strategy. When such a thing exists, choices are merely an illusion or are unmeaningful. If you can burst someone down very easily, the dominant strategy becomes burst faster and harder. When healing/HP pools are too strong, it becomes a game of attrition. The main starting point for good balance in my opinion comes when a character is able to "tank" enough to make a difference, shift everything else to damage or utility, and do so successfully in spite of potential cheese builds that it encounters.
Rogues are supposed to kill (thats why they die easy)
That's why I see 75% deflect severity with high amount of deflect chance (DEX+CHA+enchants). Not to mention Impossible to Catch or permastealth. Rogues are definitely easy to kill.
22k isn't a lot and other classes can do that depending on debuffs. The fact is its more like 34k-45k which that is a lil insane. 22k is a normal hit for a TR without lurkers up. A lot would need to change and I think a HP buff and change can be addressed hopefully in the future.
Quote Originally Posted by oregonize View Post
Rogues are supposed to kill (thats why they die easy)
ROFLMAO ya TR's are so easy to kill.........In any close pvp match those TR's will have less deaths than almost any other class. If you are dieing as a TR then you are getting ganged up on or dont know how to get away.
I play every class and, from my experience, they kinda are dude...much more so than well played GWF, GF and CW, but thats another discussion all together and wasn't what I said. I said they "die easily". Of course they are going to be tougher while ITC is up (you realize how long this lasts right?) and they are allowed to continually complete their stealth rotation. But, save the small percentage of people who have greater tene's in every slot, if you are continuously getting killed by a perma-stealth rogue, with their extremely gimped dmg output, you really DO need what i'm smoking because its called L2P...and its dank. Its fairly easy to disrupt a perma stealth's rotation and once they are out of it, they DIE EASILY. Sure they may get you sometimes, but if you just absolutely can't figure out how to deal with them, that really is your bad...not the devs. There is plenty of discussion on these boards describing tons of ways good players deal with Rogues...
Funny how not a single class can 1-2 shot me except a TR. You like so many others are spewing BS out of your mouth like a raging river. Your pathetic class will get nerfed and when it does I will be here to watch you cry.
wow which rogue is owning you so bad that you are constantly melting on the forums?
same people making the same lame threads over and over because they are bad
sad, really
No sad is the people that ignore a problem because they themselves do NOT want to lose any of their power. This happens all the time in politics and religion.. I can't tell you how many churches get burned by people like you who refuse to admit a problem because they don't want to lose their power.
Power corrupts and people who play TR's like you are a cancer which will kill pvp in the end or at least until Cryptic decides enough is enough and does chemo on your TR butts.
This EXACT problem happened in DAOC with their rogue class, and it got nerfed into oblivion which will happen to your class eventually.
Just wait till after fae-wild is released before complaining there has been multiple variants of rogue nerfs tested, and they are working on changing GWFs around a bit so gwfs are crying. but until fae-wild goes live we really have no idea of what is going to actually be nerfed. only what is being tested.
Funny how not a single class can 1-2 shot me except a TR. You like so many others are spewing BS out of your mouth like a raging river. Your pathetic class will get nerfed and when it does I will be here to watch you cry.
First, I have characters of every class. Second, you seem to be taking this exceptionally personally. Third, if the only class that one-shots you is TR's then clearly you haven't learned how to fight against them. Seriously, it's not hard. I offered to help and you responded like this. It's a game, deal with it.
The right to command is earned through duty, the privilege of rank is service.
No sad is the people that ignore a problem because they themselves do NOT want to lose any of their power. This happens all the time in politics and religion.. I can't tell you how many churches get burned by people like you who refuse to admit a problem because they don't want to lose their power.
Power corrupts and people who play TR's like you are a cancer which will kill pvp in the end or at least until Cryptic decides enough is enough and does chemo on your TR butts.
This EXACT problem happened in DAOC with their rogue class, and it got nerfed into oblivion which will happen to your class eventually.
LOL. This post is priceless...most decent players play more than one class and don't care as much as you think they do about 1 of their 5 characters getting nerfed.... I'll give you the other side of your "argument"....People like you come on these forums because they only play 1 class and therefor can't figure out how to beat the other classes. You cry OP because its a lot easier than playing and actually learning the other classes. People roll their eyes at threads like these because its always by some newb who got to 60 and got owned and can't come to terms with the fact that they might not be that great at their respective class yet or may not have the gear/enchants to compete at the highest levels of PvP. Every Uber geared toon out there, regardless of class, is going to own you. Every player that knows their class and yours better than you do is going to own you. THIS DOESN'T MEAN THEY ARE INHERENTLY OP!! Seriously, everyone who knows how to counter TR is laughing at you all, thread after thread after repetitive thread... Try to consider the possibility that you may just not be that good yet (it will come, don't get discouraged) and that Rogue may not be as OP as you keep saying it absolutely is. Level all the classes and you will find yourself whining far far less...really.
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lucifer3205Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited August 2013
and i agree with this comment kudos for you ive played all the classes i have no problems fighting rogues on my wizard/cleric lol frankly my cleric is dps specced i can almost one shot them with flame strike if it crits :P
and i agree with this comment kudos for you ive played all the classes i have no problems fighting rogues on my wizard/cleric lol frankly my cleric is dps specced i can almost one shot them with flame strike if it crits :P
Sadly that Hammer of Fate nerf is going to hurt.
The right to command is earned through duty, the privilege of rank is service.
Not really...you know whats going to hurt more? Playing the same 2 PvP maps for another 3-6 months and running the same 5 or 6 dungeons over and over because the devs think players are more concerned with the fact that they keep gettting owned in PvP than they are with the fact that end game content is really really lacking right now...
I retract my post I will instead level a OP TR and WTFPAWN everyone.
Seeing that the devs will NOT nerf TR's I have nothing to worry about.
Move along nothing to see here (literally)
Maybe you should but I don't see how it will help you if you can't figure out how to counter the rogue class as it is now. You seem to be one of those that whines instead of actually figuring out how to counter a class that gives you issues and here is a little secret, please don't spread the word.
TR's are very counter able, you just need to know how to detect them and then counter them.
It's a lot simpler than whining.....
A Proud Member Of THE 300 Guild - Tene's are nothing but P2W, Nerf or Remove please!
Not really...you know whats going to hurt more? Playing the same 2 PvP maps for another 3-6 months and running the same 5 or 6 dungeons over and over because the devs think players are more concerned with the fact that they keep gettting owned in PvP than they are with the fact that end game content is really really lacking right now...
Unfortunately the people who are complaining the most frequently on the forum seems to be that crowd. Since the squeaky wheel gets the grease and all that...
I would imagine that PWE/Cryptic has to have a huge number of metrics that they check. So they likely know via numbers what is going on in the game. Which is why the nerfs they are putting in are so very confusing.
The right to command is earned through duty, the privilege of rank is service.
We actually rush in with a plastic spoon. A fork has pointy things and would be an upgrade.
plastic forks get nerfed if clerics have them as the pointy things are termed "unintended, and to be fixed"
of course then the clerics will use those nerfed to plastic spoons and think to themselves what if we could put stuff in the spoons and use them as a flinging instrument, which of course is unintended and even the plastic spoons wind up on the nerfing block... not sure what the nerf to a plastic spoon is but lets keep in mind we are up against swords and shields and stuff we can't even see or attack that one hit us or otherwise hold/knockdown/control us until we are dead and we aren't even allowed the nerfed all to hell plastic spoon
Comments
The main reason why PvP(arguably PvE as well) gets stale most of the time is because there is a dominant strategy. When such a thing exists, choices are merely an illusion or are unmeaningful. If you can burst someone down very easily, the dominant strategy becomes burst faster and harder. When healing/HP pools are too strong, it becomes a game of attrition. The main starting point for good balance in my opinion comes when a character is able to "tank" enough to make a difference, shift everything else to damage or utility, and do so successfully in spite of potential cheese builds that it encounters.
BTW, Ice Knife ftw. :cool:
Rogues are supposed to kill (thats why they die easy)
ROFLMAO ya TR's are so easy to kill.........In any close pvp match those TR's will have less deaths than almost any other class. If you are dieing as a TR then you are getting ganged up on or dont know how to get away.
I play every class and, from my experience, they kinda are dude...much more so than well played GWF, GF and CW, but thats another discussion all together and wasn't what I said. I said they "die easily". Of course they are going to be tougher while ITC is up (you realize how long this lasts right?) and they are allowed to continually complete their stealth rotation. But, save the small percentage of people who have greater tene's in every slot, if you are continuously getting killed by a perma-stealth rogue, with their extremely gimped dmg output, you really DO need what i'm smoking because its called L2P...and its dank. Its fairly easy to disrupt a perma stealth's rotation and once they are out of it, they DIE EASILY. Sure they may get you sometimes, but if you just absolutely can't figure out how to deal with them, that really is your bad...not the devs. There is plenty of discussion on these boards describing tons of ways good players deal with Rogues...
wow which rogue is owning you so bad that you are constantly melting on the forums?
whats your char and what shard?
sad, really
No sad is the people that ignore a problem because they themselves do NOT want to lose any of their power. This happens all the time in politics and religion.. I can't tell you how many churches get burned by people like you who refuse to admit a problem because they don't want to lose their power.
Power corrupts and people who play TR's like you are a cancer which will kill pvp in the end or at least until Cryptic decides enough is enough and does chemo on your TR butts.
This EXACT problem happened in DAOC with their rogue class, and it got nerfed into oblivion which will happen to your class eventually.
Don't bother responding, I'll just ignore you
Sad story of overgeared vs undergeared.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BG-u1t6VO0
Yes please go stick your head in the ground, your type is good at that. It still doesn't make the problem (OP TR's) go away.
First, I have characters of every class. Second, you seem to be taking this exceptionally personally. Third, if the only class that one-shots you is TR's then clearly you haven't learned how to fight against them. Seriously, it's not hard. I offered to help and you responded like this. It's a game, deal with it.
LOL. This post is priceless...most decent players play more than one class and don't care as much as you think they do about 1 of their 5 characters getting nerfed.... I'll give you the other side of your "argument"....People like you come on these forums because they only play 1 class and therefor can't figure out how to beat the other classes. You cry OP because its a lot easier than playing and actually learning the other classes. People roll their eyes at threads like these because its always by some newb who got to 60 and got owned and can't come to terms with the fact that they might not be that great at their respective class yet or may not have the gear/enchants to compete at the highest levels of PvP. Every Uber geared toon out there, regardless of class, is going to own you. Every player that knows their class and yours better than you do is going to own you. THIS DOESN'T MEAN THEY ARE INHERENTLY OP!! Seriously, everyone who knows how to counter TR is laughing at you all, thread after thread after repetitive thread... Try to consider the possibility that you may just not be that good yet (it will come, don't get discouraged) and that Rogue may not be as OP as you keep saying it absolutely is. Level all the classes and you will find yourself whining far far less...really.
Sadly that Hammer of Fate nerf is going to hurt.
Not really...you know whats going to hurt more? Playing the same 2 PvP maps for another 3-6 months and running the same 5 or 6 dungeons over and over because the devs think players are more concerned with the fact that they keep gettting owned in PvP than they are with the fact that end game content is really really lacking right now...
Critical Hit! Your Savage Advance deals 3045 Physical to <PUG TR>
One power above is a TR's encounter.
One power above is a gwf's daily.
Conclusion is easy: nerf the Slam.
Lurker's OP , better nerf Slam .
They did nerf Lurker's, but who wants facts during this witch hunt?
And the Cleric's Hammer. Y'all know how OP clerics are. I say we give them a plastic fork and have them rush into combat.
Join Essence of Aggression: PVP-ing Hard Since Beta!
I thought that was what they were doing.
Maybe you should but I don't see how it will help you if you can't figure out how to counter the rogue class as it is now. You seem to be one of those that whines instead of actually figuring out how to counter a class that gives you issues and here is a little secret, please don't spread the word.
TR's are very counter able, you just need to know how to detect them and then counter them.
It's a lot simpler than whining.....
A Proud Member Of THE 300 Guild - Tene's are nothing but P2W, Nerf or Remove please!
Unfortunately the people who are complaining the most frequently on the forum seems to be that crowd. Since the squeaky wheel gets the grease and all that...
I would imagine that PWE/Cryptic has to have a huge number of metrics that they check. So they likely know via numbers what is going on in the game. Which is why the nerfs they are putting in are so very confusing.
We actually rush in with a plastic spoon. A fork has pointy things and would be an upgrade.
plastic forks get nerfed if clerics have them as the pointy things are termed "unintended, and to be fixed"
of course then the clerics will use those nerfed to plastic spoons and think to themselves what if we could put stuff in the spoons and use them as a flinging instrument, which of course is unintended and even the plastic spoons wind up on the nerfing block... not sure what the nerf to a plastic spoon is but lets keep in mind we are up against swords and shields and stuff we can't even see or attack that one hit us or otherwise hold/knockdown/control us until we are dead and we aren't even allowed the nerfed all to hell plastic spoon
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJiUza3gdqs
Hyenas@zokir - Essence of Aggression
lol... nicely done
It is entirely possible to get one-shotted by a savvy rogue if you're in cloth armor.