Leavers? Why so much hate on those? I leave matches from time to time, but i got my reasons like many others.
When i get stomped by a premade - why should i stay and let them earn glory from my kills? Honestly if you think about it, there is no glory in such kills. When our team is badly losing and can hardly do anything - why should i stay and waste my time? Gear score difference means huge difference in stats, so why bother when in the end glory reward will be negligible? When the opponent is fully equipped with tene, what can i contrapose to that? I'm not that heavy donater, and i don't like this pay-to-win concept.
That's what many people think. I personally prefer to stay in the match till the end and fight somehow, but there is one thing that i just can't stand.
At the red pvp map enemy team can get to our respawn point near the camp fire. At first time i thought only cw, cleric and rogue can do that, but honestly any class can (even i being gf can, i tried this once).
All this pvp system is badly done. It's not broken, it's just badly done. And one should blame the developers for ruining the fun, not leavers.
So how about if other people leave, you also just leave, then re-queue and hope for a better match?
I usually just wait for the match to end. I don't fight though since it's useless. 5v3? 5v2? 5v1? What for)
Sometimes opponents agree for 1v1. There we go, that approach i like :rolleyes:
The worst thing is that the people who quit never get better because they only practice against people they can already beat. Then they accuse other teams of any sort of imbalance and quit again, perpetuating the cycle.
One of the easiest ways to win a PvP match these days is sprint to the far node and kill any defenders there, then attack them when they leave the graveyard....right then, the quitters quit not realizing that it was all just a bluff.
One of the easiest ways to win a PvP match these days is sprint to the far node and kill any defenders there, then attack them when they leave the graveyard....
Or you can sprint to the far node and get eliminated in no time by some rich tene lover.
Up to your luck
Or you can sprint to the far node and get eliminated in no time by some rich tene lover.
Up to your luck
Weirdly, that rarely happens. The guys with uber gear go to the action in the middle. Usually the first close cap is reserved for the weaker. The idea is to trick that person to quit so its 5v4 and now even uber gear can't save them.
I'm a support specced DC and I frequently leave PvP matches when It is clear that my team loose. The reason is that as a support specced DC, I commonly score lowest.
If my team win a match, because I healed like hell while kiting 1 to 3 opponents focusing me, I usually get less reward then on my rogue if the team loosing a match. My rogue only has a gear score of 8.5 K ... my DC around 11 K. But simply having 20+ kills with my rogue in a match is far superior then having more then 40+ assists with my cleric.
That's the reason I leave the match with my DC if it is clear that my team will loose.
I really wish they would put in a ranking system of some kind. I did some PvP on my GF last night, got into a group that had another GF 2 TR and a DC. I was like hell yeah this is pretty good comp, we are going to cc the <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> out of them and TR's will drop them fast. Then I inspect the other GF... 5.2k GS, I didn't know you could have that low at 60?! one of the TR's had 6k as well. I am 12k GS, so over double what my GF counterpart had, needless to say he was completely useless and we lost a domination that should have been an easy win with team comp.
I'm sure the PvP wasn't fun for him either, getting destroyed by 10-12k's that the other team had. Would be nice for everyone if we could get some sort of ranking system.
Guild Master of <Enemy Team>
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
Here is an easy solution to PvP Quitters: If someone quits a PvP match give them a buff that prevents them from joining another PvP match for x amount of time (e.g. 15/30/45 minutes)
Only people arguing against a fix like this are the losers quitting the matches they are getting stomped in.
Only people arguing for a fix are scum that only search for the satisfaction to grief other players without chance. Unfortunately, a large part MMORPG "PvPers" are that kind of people.
Think of it: There is no leaver penalety if you join on any shooter-server. If you realize that the opponent is too much for you, you leave. That's common for "real" PvP games like Q3, UT, CS, TF and many more. On the other hand, most skilled shooter players will leave if they realize they play against much lower skilled opponents. Why? They don't learn anything from it and their gameplay don't improve by griefing people. Sure, they do it sometimes, but most get bored very fast. A real PvPer always seek for people of his level of skill or slightly higher, because that is where you learn most and that is where you get the most fun.
However, MMORPGs seem to attract only Griefers that find their pleasure in wanna-be PvP.
Only people arguing for a fix are scum that only search for the satisfaction to grief other players without chance. Unfortunately, a large part MMORPG "PvPers" are that kind of people.
Think of it: There is no leaver penalety if you join on any shooter-server. If you realize that the opponent is too much for you, you leave. That's common for "real" PvP games like Q3, UT, CS, TF and many more. On the other hand, most skilled shooter players will leave if they realize they play against much lower skilled opponents. Why? They don't learn anything from it and their gameplay don't improve by griefing people. Sure, they do it sometimes, but most get bored very fast. A real PvPer always seek for people of his level of skill or slightly higher, because that is where you learn most and that is where you get the most fun.
However, MMORPGs seem to attract only Griefers that find their pleasure in wanna-be PvP.
So having a ranking system that matched people based on their earned rank (skill) or GS would allow for these even matchups much much more often would they not?
I don't really care about any deserter buff, I only said before they can add something like that there needs to be balanced matchups. I could care less if they actually give a debuff or not, I just want more competative PvP.
Seems like when I queue alone I get a super weak team and we're against a full premade, and then when I queue with friends we're against all 6k GS players... either way its a stompfest and that's not that fun. Ok stomping others is a little fun sometimes =P but I'd much rather have an even match heh
Guild Master of <Enemy Team>
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
So having a ranking system that matched people based on their earned rank (skill) or GS would allow for these even matchups much much more often would they not?
First of all, forget this idea of ranking. Cryptic won't do this. Cryptic will only do very few minor PvP chances. You can foresee this already if you follow the development of Star Trek Online. STO had no major change of the PvP for more then 1 year. STO has a similar PvP system like NWN. There is plenty of feedback from the STO PvP community of making PvP more balanced and more intresting - it is ignored.
Second. No, it wouldn't improve. How do you want to make these ranks? On the basis of total glory earned? Yeah, nice! My healing cleric will be very happy about this to get even more penalized then currently.
The reward system as implemented now even don't work, because it reward killing (or should I say kill stealing?) more then anything else. That's the reason I usually score much higher with my inferior equipped rogue then with my far better equipped cleric. And that although I contribute in fact much more for a team win with my cleric then with my rogue ... quite ironic.
In fact, a balanced system would reward the entire team on the same level rather then individually.
Seems like when I queue alone I get a super weak team and we're against a full premade, and then when I queue with friends we're against all 6k GS players... either way its a stompfest and that's not that fun. Ok stomping others is a little fun sometimes =P but I'd much rather have an even match heh
Gearscore dependant PvP will not come. Reason: The amount of PvP games popping would decrease drastically because of lower player pool. If you need to wait 30 mins for a PvP match to pop, no-one will PvP anymore.
First of all, forget this idea of ranking. Cryptic won't do this. Cryptic will only do very few minor PvP chances. You can foresee this already if you follow the development of Star Trek Online. STO had no major change of the PvP for more then 1 year. STO has a similar PvP system like NWN. There is plenty of feedback from the STO PvP community of making PvP more balanced and more intresting - it is ignored.
Second. No, it wouldn't improve. How do you want to make these ranks? On the basis of total glory earned? Yeah, nice! My healing cleric will be very happy about this to get even more penalized then currently.
The reward system as implemented now even don't work, because it reward killing (or should I say kill stealing?) more then anything else. That's the reason I usually score much higher with my inferior equipped rogue then with my far better equipped cleric. And that although I contribute in fact much more for a team win with my cleric then with my rogue ... quite ironic.
In fact, a balanced system would reward the entire team on the same level rather then individually.
Gearscore dependant PvP will not come. Reason: The amount of PvP games popping would decrease drastically because of lower player pool. If you need to wait 30 mins for a PvP match to pop, no-one will PvP anymore.
So, best way is, to leave it as it is currently.
I think this is a good post. Just wanted to add that I generally love pvp as a player even though in neverwinter it sucks right now, I still would do it as a form to make gold for my pve runs. But now that they removed the ability to make gold from selling battle pots, I have absolutely NO incentive any more to pvp. I mentioned this in my guild chat and many of them said the same thing. The 4k AD is a joke and my character ****s 4k AD. It is not even worth the time to pvp for 4k ad daily. The pvp isn't fun, it was just a means to make some gold and at the same time have a little bit of enjoyment. But now, I am stuck making gold other ways that are far less entertaining. I no longer pvp and I am not alone. The funny thing is, it didn't stop bots, it only stopped legitimate players from pvping. I'm sure the que times are slowing down.
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walbangerMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 17Arc User
Normally I'm not a fan of quitters. You can still learn even if you loose. In this game however there are a few fundamental flaws.
Overpowered classes like TR which can and will kill you while stealth. It is so stupid I'm still surprised every time it happens, even if it happens on every round. Imagine a boxing match where one opponent is having a blind fold the first 15 punches of each round. If you have questions or arguments against this, just play a CW and see how the flys gather around the sugar. Epic fail!
GWF virtually unkillable at a certain level of skill and gear score. No use at all trying to fight them unless you have a team of skilled players focusing him/her down.
Also like some said. Mixing 12k+ GS with 6k = fail even if GS isn't everything.
In rare cases one team can get three of the same class, which can have funny effects.
Like I said, I'm not a fan of quitters but I've started to quit rounds where there are rogues killing me from 100% stealth or OP GWF where we don't have a super team.
You are meant to die 1v1 vs a TR.. after he 1 shots you he comes out of stealth and dies VERY quickly....
Quiters are making the game UNPLAYABLE... simple....
I think if you get Glory for Winning... you should LOSE glory for quiting/disconnecting (the same ammount)....
(if you keep disconnecting, dont play till you sorted your game/PC... cause you cant play anyway and your spoiling it for others)
Here is an easy solution to PvP Quitters: If someone quits a PvP match give them a buff that prevents them from joining another PvP match for x amount of time (e.g. 15/30/45 minutes)
If I remember WOW had a penalizing a quitter. Don't forget a player can always purposely dc and then relog back into the game and depending on how the mmo is setup it will send the toon to the last designated place it was at. Even if you add a reward system to the play, no matter how wonderful the reward is people will still quit no matter what. And for that penal system it never worked. As for the only workaround system against bots is that you trace where the address is and if a person is using more than one system then they should get a very strict warning that if you don't stop you will be perm ban. Give this warning twice but still be fair about it like first offense is a week, second offense a month, 3rd offense that's it. no more pvp for you but you can still do pve. As for making things fair that would be a fairly easy thing to do. When you go in and no matter what level you are even at 60 you gs score will go directly to zero. The atks will all be on equal base. The rest will depend on team play. Lets just face it. The only way is what several of you been saying and that is just to suck it up or create a team with players that know how to play and just pvp with them to maintain your own dominance.
i just can repeat myself. Don't punish players for leaving a match when the devs made pvp the most imbalanced experience i ever had in playing pvp in an mmo. if you would force players to not leave they would camp in the spawn once they have enough points so that the match counts towards their daily. just move your mouse after 5 minutes so you are not booted. if you punish ppl even more lots of them would not even join pvp anymore. less players doing pvp --> less attention by the devs, lower priority. if the trs and gwfs then battle each other all day long without any complaints anymore from dcs then there would be no much changes to pvp in the future.
so: fix pvp and if you have a balanced system then we can talk about punishing the players.
The reason to stay is simple, you Q'd for PvP so you must have wanted something out of it, even if that something is just pure enjoyment of PvP.
So for you to leave right away and ruin 9 other people's "something" you should be punished, it's pretty cut and dry really.
I have stayed in a many a premade team where we were losing, I have even stayed when I was the last person on my team. Who cares if they kill you? there is no injury, you still get your daily, and honor if you reach ~300 points. Lol I don't understand the whiners that say "well I don't wanna just keep dieing" heh you don't lose anything, and you actually gain skill while playing good players. Especially 1v1's if they will accommodate you.
Edit: My DC just hit 60, he has 9.2k GS and I love doing PvP with him. Yes enemies target me first all the time, but with the right build and knowing how to play your class I still do extremely well, and find it very fun.
Guild Master of <Enemy Team>
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
The reason to stay is simple, you Q'd for PvP so you must have wanted something out of it, even if that something is just pure enjoyment of PvP.
So for you to leave right away and ruin 9 other people's "something" you should be punished, it's pretty cut and dry really.
I have stayed in a many a premade team where we were losing, I have even stayed when I was the last person on my team. Who cares if they kill you? there is no injury, you still get your daily, and honor if you reach ~300 points. Lol I don't understand the whiners that say "well I don't wanna just keep dieing" heh you don't lose anything, and you actually gain skill while playing good players. Especially 1v1's if they will accommodate you.
Edit: My DC just hit 60, he has 9.2k GS and I love doing PvP with him. Yes enemies target me first all the time, but with the right build and knowing how to play your class I still do extremely well, and find it very fun.
its 500 OTHERWISE YOU GAIN NOTHING!!!
and it is not easy to get 500 on some classes! so I get no fun, no glory, no skill! remind me why I am doing this again?
if you wan't people to stay the only logical reason would be to reward staying not punishing leaving, because if you start punishing people they will just quite pvp all together
and it is not easy to get 500 on some classes! so I get no fun, no glory, no skill! remind me why I am doing this again?
if you wan't people to stay the only logical reason would be to reward staying not punishing leaving, because if you start punishing people they will just quite pvp all together
You do get skill, and you do get the daily, and all you need is to cap 2 points or 1 point and a couple kills to get 500 points, pretty sure you only need >300 though.
How do you get better in anything competitive? Go against people that are better than you, and see why they're better, that concept works in just about every situation...
Guild Master of <Enemy Team>
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
I steamroll people and I quit once I know the match is over . Often times I don't even bother collecting the reward because its no longer worth waiting.
Ok I'll share my point of view. I got roflstomped in the beginning yes, because the max level pvp is hard for a fresh 60. Did I quit a match?
No.
I thought different ways of doing things, how to even get my enemy down to 80% hp instead of him oneshotting me. I played more matches and slowly got better and better, in both skill and gear. Farmed GG, did dailies, got some enchants.
Now sitting on 10.7k gs and doing fine in PvP. Never going to win those pvorpals/gtene stackers, but I've gained a lot of weapons against every class by playing the game.
Did I ever quit any match?
Gotta say yeah, when we got 5 and enemy team had 1 player left in under one minute.
Comments
When i get stomped by a premade - why should i stay and let them earn glory from my kills? Honestly if you think about it, there is no glory in such kills. When our team is badly losing and can hardly do anything - why should i stay and waste my time? Gear score difference means huge difference in stats, so why bother when in the end glory reward will be negligible? When the opponent is fully equipped with tene, what can i contrapose to that? I'm not that heavy donater, and i don't like this pay-to-win concept.
That's what many people think. I personally prefer to stay in the match till the end and fight somehow, but there is one thing that i just can't stand.
At the red pvp map enemy team can get to our respawn point near the camp fire. At first time i thought only cw, cleric and rogue can do that, but honestly any class can (even i being gf can, i tried this once).
All this pvp system is badly done. It's not broken, it's just badly done. And one should blame the developers for ruining the fun, not leavers.
Sometimes opponents agree for 1v1. There we go, that approach i like :rolleyes:
One of the easiest ways to win a PvP match these days is sprint to the far node and kill any defenders there, then attack them when they leave the graveyard....right then, the quitters quit not realizing that it was all just a bluff.
Up to your luck
If my team win a match, because I healed like hell while kiting 1 to 3 opponents focusing me, I usually get less reward then on my rogue if the team loosing a match. My rogue only has a gear score of 8.5 K ... my DC around 11 K. But simply having 20+ kills with my rogue in a match is far superior then having more then 40+ assists with my cleric.
That's the reason I leave the match with my DC if it is clear that my team will loose.
I'm sure the PvP wasn't fun for him either, getting destroyed by 10-12k's that the other team had. Would be nice for everyone if we could get some sort of ranking system.
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
wouldn't that be a debuff instead?
They should add it for dungeon leavers too
Only people arguing for a fix are scum that only search for the satisfaction to grief other players without chance. Unfortunately, a large part MMORPG "PvPers" are that kind of people.
Think of it: There is no leaver penalety if you join on any shooter-server. If you realize that the opponent is too much for you, you leave. That's common for "real" PvP games like Q3, UT, CS, TF and many more. On the other hand, most skilled shooter players will leave if they realize they play against much lower skilled opponents. Why? They don't learn anything from it and their gameplay don't improve by griefing people. Sure, they do it sometimes, but most get bored very fast. A real PvPer always seek for people of his level of skill or slightly higher, because that is where you learn most and that is where you get the most fun.
However, MMORPGs seem to attract only Griefers that find their pleasure in wanna-be PvP.
So having a ranking system that matched people based on their earned rank (skill) or GS would allow for these even matchups much much more often would they not?
I don't really care about any deserter buff, I only said before they can add something like that there needs to be balanced matchups. I could care less if they actually give a debuff or not, I just want more competative PvP.
Seems like when I queue alone I get a super weak team and we're against a full premade, and then when I queue with friends we're against all 6k GS players... either way its a stompfest and that's not that fun. Ok stomping others is a little fun sometimes =P but I'd much rather have an even match heh
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
First of all, forget this idea of ranking. Cryptic won't do this. Cryptic will only do very few minor PvP chances. You can foresee this already if you follow the development of Star Trek Online. STO had no major change of the PvP for more then 1 year. STO has a similar PvP system like NWN. There is plenty of feedback from the STO PvP community of making PvP more balanced and more intresting - it is ignored.
Second. No, it wouldn't improve. How do you want to make these ranks? On the basis of total glory earned? Yeah, nice! My healing cleric will be very happy about this to get even more penalized then currently.
The reward system as implemented now even don't work, because it reward killing (or should I say kill stealing?) more then anything else. That's the reason I usually score much higher with my inferior equipped rogue then with my far better equipped cleric. And that although I contribute in fact much more for a team win with my cleric then with my rogue ... quite ironic.
In fact, a balanced system would reward the entire team on the same level rather then individually.
Gearscore dependant PvP will not come. Reason: The amount of PvP games popping would decrease drastically because of lower player pool. If you need to wait 30 mins for a PvP match to pop, no-one will PvP anymore.
So, best way is, to leave it as it is currently.
I think this is a good post. Just wanted to add that I generally love pvp as a player even though in neverwinter it sucks right now, I still would do it as a form to make gold for my pve runs. But now that they removed the ability to make gold from selling battle pots, I have absolutely NO incentive any more to pvp. I mentioned this in my guild chat and many of them said the same thing. The 4k AD is a joke and my character ****s 4k AD. It is not even worth the time to pvp for 4k ad daily. The pvp isn't fun, it was just a means to make some gold and at the same time have a little bit of enjoyment. But now, I am stuck making gold other ways that are far less entertaining. I no longer pvp and I am not alone. The funny thing is, it didn't stop bots, it only stopped legitimate players from pvping. I'm sure the que times are slowing down.
You are meant to die 1v1 vs a TR.. after he 1 shots you he comes out of stealth and dies VERY quickly....
Quiters are making the game UNPLAYABLE... simple....
I think if you get Glory for Winning... you should LOSE glory for quiting/disconnecting (the same ammount)....
(if you keep disconnecting, dont play till you sorted your game/PC... cause you cant play anyway and your spoiling it for others)
also AFKers should get peneltys as well...
Good idea.
couldn't care less;) could care less means you have some care.
I will fix the whole internet of this!
No I could care less, deep down I want all pvp leavers to get 10 day account bans.
heh I'm usually sometimes grate with the spelling and grammer and such like that stuff too, I dont no what I were thinkin =P
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
so: fix pvp and if you have a balanced system then we can talk about punishing the players.
if you play a class like a DC that only get
So for you to leave right away and ruin 9 other people's "something" you should be punished, it's pretty cut and dry really.
I have stayed in a many a premade team where we were losing, I have even stayed when I was the last person on my team. Who cares if they kill you? there is no injury, you still get your daily, and honor if you reach ~300 points. Lol I don't understand the whiners that say "well I don't wanna just keep dieing" heh you don't lose anything, and you actually gain skill while playing good players. Especially 1v1's if they will accommodate you.
Edit: My DC just hit 60, he has 9.2k GS and I love doing PvP with him. Yes enemies target me first all the time, but with the right build and knowing how to play your class I still do extremely well, and find it very fun.
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
its 500 OTHERWISE YOU GAIN NOTHING!!!
and it is not easy to get 500 on some classes! so I get no fun, no glory, no skill! remind me why I am doing this again?
if you wan't people to stay the only logical reason would be to reward staying not punishing leaving, because if you start punishing people they will just quite pvp all together
You do get skill, and you do get the daily, and all you need is to cap 2 points or 1 point and a couple kills to get 500 points, pretty sure you only need >300 though.
How do you get better in anything competitive? Go against people that are better than you, and see why they're better, that concept works in just about every situation...
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
No.
I thought different ways of doing things, how to even get my enemy down to 80% hp instead of him oneshotting me. I played more matches and slowly got better and better, in both skill and gear. Farmed GG, did dailies, got some enchants.
Now sitting on 10.7k gs and doing fine in PvP. Never going to win those pvorpals/gtene stackers, but I've gained a lot of weapons against every class by playing the game.
Did I ever quit any match?
Gotta say yeah, when we got 5 and enemy team had 1 player left in under one minute.