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Perma stealth gone? hardly (a preview server tested theory)
leaflover
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 16 Arc User
So they nerfed our ability to use most at will power in stealth by making it deplete the stealth bar? Most rogue asume that because cloud of steel and duelist flurry are out of the path rogue perma stealth is actualy unplayable? Well maybe its time you people reconsider the use of a way long underestimated skill. Im of course talking about gloaming cut... what the dev are doing isnt to actualy remove perma stealth but making sure only ''Saboteur'' tree specialist can use it
The infiltrator spec was made to serve as an actual stealth speciality. therefore people going all out assasination tree as infiltrator and then going out for massive dps while stealthed sure was to make them reconsider the way the spell works. Gloaming cut was by definition made to be the main at will in the infiltrator paragon.. its just natural that its also the only usable at will in stealth that wont bring your stealth bar down.
As a saboteur Gloaming cut has the wonderfull ability to recharge the stealth bar by 10% on every hit (wich totaly negate the stealth deplete on strike). It has long been deemed slow and hardly damaging enought (altrought still able to deal great damage it can hardly compete with cloud of steel wich is ranged or duelist flurry wich has a great damage output)... exept now its officialy the ONLY at will that will not make you go out of stealth as you use it! This is a major nerf to pvp damage as most rogue would just spam cloud of steel at range to build up their dps. However it gives a chance to the saboteur tree to actualy be actively used as an effective sneaker tree... Assasination sneaker era is over... its time for saboteur to actualy show up
The infiltrator spec was made to serve as an actual stealth speciality. therefore people going all out assasination tree as infiltrator and then going out for massive dps while stealthed sure was to make them reconsider the way the spell works. Gloaming cut was by definition made to be the main at will in the infiltrator paragon.. its just natural that its also the only usable at will in stealth that wont bring your stealth bar down.
As a saboteur Gloaming cut has the wonderfull ability to recharge the stealth bar by 10% on every hit (wich totaly negate the stealth deplete on strike). It has long been deemed slow and hardly damaging enought (altrought still able to deal great damage it can hardly compete with cloud of steel wich is ranged or duelist flurry wich has a great damage output)... exept now its officialy the ONLY at will that will not make you go out of stealth as you use it! This is a major nerf to pvp damage as most rogue would just spam cloud of steel at range to build up their dps. However it gives a chance to the saboteur tree to actualy be actively used as an effective sneaker tree... Assasination sneaker era is over... its time for saboteur to actualy show up
Post edited by leaflover on
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What doesnt saboteur Gloaming provide? Damage.
I might test later between Gloaming sabateur dps vs Squishy non stealth TR executioner flurry.
Lanaya@meeggtoast 13.4 BiS GWF
Shendelzare@meeggtoast 11.2k CN mule CW
Server: Dragon
Stream: meeggtoast
Guide: Meeggtoast's Destroyer Dps Guide
Infiltrator damage could be counted as about average for the mather. Its all about fighting from the shadow and not getting hit.
Your assessment lacks one thing.
At Wills deplete Stealth.... So Gloaming Cut will deplete stealth by MORE than it recovers.
Already tested.
already tested as well did you even spec saboteur to begin with?
quote: As a saboteur Gloaming cut has the wonderfull ability to recharge the stealth bar by 10% on every hit (wich totaly negate the stealth deplete on strike)
did i ever say it filled it? it just negate the malus wich is the intended purpose
at this point the only defrence between the curent perma and this new perma is that you wont be spamming ranged attack but melee one instead
By pointing out an inconsistency with your post, you proceed to get defensive.. interesting.
Anyway...
Yes, I have specced many, oh dear god, many different builds including Sab, Sab Exe Hybrid, Sab Scound Hybrid, etc etc...
There is a limit to what can be accomplished with these limited builds they have given us.
But to close out, Gloaming will deplete stealth more than recover because you need an actual target for that gloaming to land on, it also means you have to get into visable sight ( melee range, within 20 ft or less ) for your Gloaming to connect.
Once you factor in these other aspects of actual in play testing, either in PvP or PvE, you will see the Gloaming cannot sustain keeping stealth up continuously, even with BnS and a INT build. Without a continuous target for gloaming to keep it sufficent, or in PvP when you have to close in on a target, you make yourself visable for that split second when you connect, which means, one well placed Shield Bash and the Bouncing Betty begins.
(Cryptic, you owe me 50 bucks for the live server respeccing btw, i will keep reminding you.. )
Baseline for my test: Banelorne's Perma Stealth build.
Edit: I will agree with some minor points. It will broaden the use of the Feats and possibly create more variety. In theory... However, most rogues are sick and tired of the constant nerfing, so you will lose many more than you will have that will settle for less from the Sab tree.
For me to maintain stealth with my stat set up on test, I must use an Ioun Stone. Sadly, using the stone causing the extra stealth recovery granted by slaying an enemy with Gloaming Cut is negated due to a bug experienced by myself and others.
Also, the animation time of Gloaming Cut can make it a bit harder to maintain stealth than some other At-Wills, if you barely have enough recharge to refresh stealth on time. The timing of it can be less forgiving.
Anyway, permastealth can still exist on test, at least in PvE. It just requires more recovery than before, which requires more enhancements to be devoted to recovery as opposed to damage boosting, and requires stealth to be refreshed more often.
Basically, it has an larger opportunity cost than before, as you must give up more to get it.
Do not all permastealth builds require you to feed off a target to maintain it? At least in PvE, once all the targets are gone, you don't need stealth anymore, so it's effectively permanent so long as you can maintain it so long as enemies are present.
PvP is a whole different thing than PvE, that I don't do, so I don't have any comments to make about that.
Off course like all perma it requires mobs to feed the stealth bar on. Gloaming cut alone isnt enought to keep the bar up its only there as a at will skill to deal damage while stealthed (because you aint just gunna stand there and look at them right?) what is used to refill still is shadow strike and bait and switch.
Yes, this works just fine on test with enough recharge. Another good power for covering gaps if they arise is Smoke Bomb, but ItC works just fine. Those that enjoy PvE permastealth will still be able to do so.
PvP is what i was inferring to.
This here is only 75 % good for PvE.
I do not see it working for PvP.
the previous builds worked for both.
Im not shooting you down or being condescending.
Just pointing out it's like a step down
PvP is definitely a different story I'm sure. I couldn't and wouldn't guess how well it would work there.
For PvE, I don't know why you would say it's only 75% good for PvE, unless you mean it's only 75% as effective on test compared to how it is on live. It certainly isn't as good or efficient, due to the need to refresh it more often, thus having to rely more on enchanting for recharge rather than other things. If you mean due to the efficiency loss, you're probably right.
No worries on being seen as shooting me down or condescending. I didn't think you were doing either.
Already in a PvP scenario, we have several setups opponents (CW = blink, DC = Ground Cover Scorpion (mortal kombat), GWF = jumps) and I think Gloaming Cut by having a long animation, had not played its due role, making this idea fails in practice, as regards PVP ...
The only at-will I think can compare is a GF's threatening rush, and that one is a lot faster and more useful. Just press the button and you're off, as any at-will should be.