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Rogues nerfs too harsh. Maybe Fix clerics instead?
mcdoobinz
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 9 Arc User
Are now nerfed into the ground. This is coming from the perspective of a self proclaimed seasoned GWF. Stealth rogues are one of the only options to dealing with a well geared point capping premade vs premade. 8 daggers is a great idea, it will help wizards a bit! Perma stealth rogues make huge sacrifices to become perma stealth, removing the whole spec from the game was not the right answer to nerfing rogues. Rogues who struggle to keep up with good AoE GWF have to wait till last bosses for their numbers to shine, with oncoming nerfs a GWF will be able to out dps a rogue single target. These nerfs are way to harsh and are going to make rogues obsolete at almost everything. Nerf daggers to 8, good idea. Possibly nerf impact shot's damage and use it primarily as a CC and not as a high damage dealer.. The at will damage nerfs are way too harsh.
thats my 2 cents before I go off to bed.
thats my 2 cents before I go off to bed.
Post edited by mcdoobinz on
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Comments
I agree with you on perm stealth, they are right to fix it...
GWF would come up top IMO..
Honestly, AOE classes should be top.
But so long as TRs have the best single-target DPS though they will still be wanted for Dungeon runs. I don't think this change will alter the standard party composition of DC, CW, TR + 2 others....
been here since alpha and TR received only nerfs since. at first totally necessary, then justified if not as important, then borderline troublesome and now this.
TR's ability to do the only thing they were good for in PVE, burning down bosses, has been taken away from them whith the compelte inability to setup powerful bleed as now A) bleed can't be "piloted" and
really, this game is just outright -stressful-, no game should ever make itself stressful to players, especially not when you're ruining pve experience by listening to pvp whiners rather than fixing exploits and actually scaling the difficulty on adds better. if you have to nerf a class like that can we please get a separate effect for skills/feats in pve and pvp? tyvm. have a good day cryptic.
Might alter to DC, CW, 2x TR and other for faster boss fights.
I wish ppl would take now 1x dc 1x cw and 2x gwf/gf/or 1 more dc or cw. that 2-3 rogue dungeon meta need to be fixed. every class should have same value in dungeons, not 3 rogues in one run
Something is not right when in whole dungeon run a single target dps class is doing more damage overall than pure aoe classes on tons of adds
Lol after these changes TRs will no longer be the best single target DPS. Just wait and see.
In CN the TR will stealth his way to the first campfire so the team does not need to fight it. The question about this is - should stealth on the TR be fixed or should they just fix the maps so you cant do this?
In terms of PvP, I never play it so I don't know if the majority of these nerfs were due to the PvP aspect. It will be darn near impossible to balance this game for both PvE and PvP.
not the way to go guys, that's HAMSTER.
you are right it might be hard to balance game for both pvp and pve, but 1st step has been made by nerfing ridiculous damage of rogues.
every class in dungeon should have same value, imagine runs with 2-3 cws/gwfs/gfs/clerics, thats how it should be, not always 2-3 rogues.
I changed something for you.
Single target is tr niche in pve. Turning df into a pile is going to hurt their dps. Add in turning lurkers into total garbage and there goes a lot of trs dps.
The new meta is likely going to be dc, gf, cw, gwf x2.
Why bring a tr when gwfs will do similar single target dps and have more survivability and aoe dps?
From a pvp stand point, this is total nonsense. With gwfs/gfs killing everyone in 2 hits trs needed stealth to not fall over and die. A lashing blade build doesnt stand a chance vs a gwf/gf since they can take too much dmg and once they hit the the tr once he is stunlocked and dead.
This is a total crybaby catering carebear nerf. Perma stealth is simple to counter but it seems most people cannot fathom it. I murder most perma stealth trs on my CW. Yes CW. One aoe and they are totally screwed, seen, and killed. ****, one coi and perma stealth is gone. Its so simple.
Plus you can only kill non cws/trs with lurkers up (1v1). Which would only happen a few times in a fight if people were not dumb and killed bns clone all the time (its gives trs a ton of ap! Leave it alone!). I cant tell you how many fights i have won b/c some gwf/gf murdered my clone and gave me lurkers. Every time someone attacks a clone they are handing me a win.
When you encounter a class that gives you a hard time: research! Learn the build. Leran its weaknesses. Win.
But i guess reading comprehension is too much to ask from a lot of you. So continue crying to mommy pwe and they will kiss your boo-boo and make it all better.
I stopped reading at this, stop trolling and repeating others myths about gwf,gf 2 shotting everyone.
U should join some pvp queues instead of posting things like this, u would see that rogues are the 2 shot kill class, 1 shot kills also happens.
PVP and PVE WAS very ballanced until people hit 60. The problem is gear.
Its not just one nerf, its 4 major nerfs, on the 3 massive nerfs they received previously.
I WAS planning on buying the expansion pack, but if this goes live, I am not giving them another god **** red cent. No people cant have my stuff either, that means supporting a HAMSTER game with HAMSTER support and stupid *** devs. They buffed the biggest whining class in game, don't even bother touching the other 2 classes that have too much power with nerfs, seriously?
Yuppers and they know I have given them money so they can just keep their whiners who probably don't even give them money.
more like added a mistake. If you really think rogues stand the same as a GF or GWF or CW right now you gotta be dumb as a rock.
oh look, one of abom's minions. Shut it scrub, GWF/GF can EASILY destroy you in 3 hits, and given you survive it, you are still stunlocked and unable to run for it with about 20% or less HP remaining, in another words, on their hands you are a rag doll being tossed around defenseless, but congrats, you guys managed to nerf rogues to the ground and gave place to gwf/GF to be the FOTM, but do you know whats best? Now the infinite crying for nerf will be directed to them and i can only hope the devs make you guys glass cannons by removing all your resistence and regen, then you will be on the same stand as rogues who got their main advantage nerfed.
Pepper onother people's eyes is refreshing to who is watching, now lets wait for you guys to get some of it poured on you.
They could give rogues a infinite amount of respecs, it wont matter, whenever a good build appears and scrubs get beaten by it, the nerf crying will come, and the nerf hammer will answer. I know i will have my own tr build ready to make up for the nerf but i can tell already that all my work will go to garbage once nerf cryers recover their breath. Even so i wont give up this easily on the class i like.
But I do love hearing people that insist on using fotm classes whine when it is no longer head and shoulders better than everyone else (and I have no idea if that's even the case. If I had to guess, rogues are still probably going to be pretty darn good and super popular).
although i agree that the class was used by a good part of the players just because of perma on pvp (not my case though, i only tried perma after i had a grip on what rogue was, my original attempt was a dps rogue) fact is that the class wasnt THAT above the others, unless you consider the pve damage output (permas were perfectly counterable on pvp), but then again, considering a rogue is 2 hits from death on the epic dungeons, they needed some flavor to the build, and that flavor was a high single target damage.
The only reason to have rogue over a gwf lets say, was because he could deal a good amount of damage on bosses at least, so he was desirable in that only aspect, since a gwf would deal less damage, but would tank anything that was tossed on them and be less of a burden on DCs.
Good amount of the class' damage was due to stealth mechanics and LA. When in stealth rogues deal combat advantage based on charisma and feats and when the at wills dont remove your stealth, you do have a considerable time to pile up that damage on bosses/mobs.
LA was worth it as a daily because it held stealth up longer and allowed us to deal 60% extra damage, and considering we dont have that much AP generation to avoid spamming it continuously, it wasnt that overpower, and on pvp it was shut off quite easily since any control move would remove that daily from us.
When they nerfed the stealth mechanics and LA to add 15% crit sev rather than 60% damage (really, we get the slowest ap gen to use it for like what? 15% crit sev? no thanks), they gimped the rogue damage and survivability astronomically on pve, but it would be okay if we actually got something in return, like "ok you got nerfed on some aspects, but we are going to buff some others so that you arent just left in the gutter", but that was never the case, we rogues only get our stuff removed or gimped, never anything gets added to balance what was removed, and if anything is needed to be buffed since they are removing stealth and damage, it should be suvivability, but we are just more vulnerable now, with even less damage, and nothing came in return, so rogues do have a point in being upset.
To nerf things on pvp it was extremelly easy, it was just a matter of removing the stealth refil from shadow or B&S, or make the casting still refil stealth but pop the rogue out of stealth. It was a perfectly viable way to nerf the build to appease the crying on pvp, yet they went south and nerfed exactly what makes rogues desirable on pve and changed squat for those who play pvp and who will still faceroll scrubs there. And yet ubber scrubs like abom and his sheep are smiling ear to ear with this nerf not aware of what is actually going to happen.
if these changes go live, pvp rogues will suffer nothing, but the pve rogues will become nearly extinct , the same way that clerics are always on pve but are nearly extinct on pvp, and then guess where all rogues will focus? Right, on pvp where they will actually shine more, and the whiners will have to deal with a whole new problem that will become obvious the moment they start to think a bit harder (which would have avoided the thoughtless posts that led to the nerf in the first place).
The pvp whiners that brought this on the class will still get facerolled because the good players will just circle around this nerf and the pve players will just roll another class for pve (very likelly the gwf) and rogues for pvp.
So summing it up, the pvp players tried to kill what was destroying them on pvp, and managed to shoot the pve rogues that had nothing to do with it. And cryptic was too blind to see this obvious scenario.
And believe me what is coming to pvp will make you guys beg for perma build to be back.
just a riddle for you guys to help the train of thought:
"What happens when a build that sacrificed a load damage to survive longer becomes gimped and its not worth sacrificing the damage anymore?"