I only PvP,
I don't use Lurker's Assault,
I don't use Duellist Flurry,
I don't stay hidden in the shadow,
And I don't fear any class.
Did the nerf kill some rogues ? Probably.
You think it killed all of them ? Think twice.
Don't expect to see me cry,
I'll still top the tables,
And you'll be the disillusioned one if you cross my way.
Enjoy your so-called "irony", the nerf bat is now coming to you.
I'm a TR and I get mauled off nearly all classes. My gear score is 10.8. Unless you have all the highest enchants and weapon/armour enchants and best armour you ar not much use at lvl 60. If anthing I think the control wizards are the most overpowered.
Dodging doesn't work half the time either.
Theres loads of moves that maul TR such as
The shield bash that knocks you flying that by the time you're up you've been bashed again and dead.
Long range casting from mages holding you still and damaging you as you try to run away while the rest of the team run in and kill you off. Or mages standing on the ledges above you and you can't attack back.
The special that holds up a shield and makes the player immune to damage.
I get up close to a mage hit them once and they turn around and hold you in place.
Getting held and dazed by the GF I think it is then they finish you off with the jumping attack.
If you use the supposed counters for these it makes you much less of a threat and are not much use other than getting points. All TR will be good for is capturing the odd point and assists and killing people with half there hitpoints gone using lashing blade.
If they are going to nerf that much in one go then they should be looking at nerfing other classes aswell.
Being a TR I can't wait, I hate the lack of challenge on the battlefield... Hope they don't go overboard though and make us a laughable class, that would suck.
ok, so the rogue was stelthed permantly, you can't target it!
how about using abilitys that don't need target? =O
if another rogue uses path of the blade (i belive thats the name), the slteth meter just desappear!!!
CW's have a harder time against invisible rogues, because their casting is so slow... but just have a rogue use path of the blade and BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAM...
BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAM
yes the rogue can use ITC or something, but w/e, you can also use other abilities... the rogue only stay perma invisible if you let him stay...
and you will still get one shotted... TENEBROUS BABY..... PERFECT VORPAL ................ if you don't wanna get one shotted, go farm gear or something... =\
Um how can you be mad Rogues have been broken for so long. This is a step in the right direction and they still need to nerf SE more cause I'm a GF and a well geared TR might actually kill me because I'm so balanced and never prone lock anyone til they die
I only PvP,
I don't use Lurker's Assault,
I don't use Duellist Flurry,
I don't stay hidden in the shadow,
And I don't fear any class.
Did the nerf kill some rogues ? Probably.
You think it killed all of them ? Think twice.
Don't expect to see me cry,
I'll still top the tables,
And you'll be the disillusioned one if you cross my way.
Enjoy your so-called "irony", the nerf bat is now coming to you.
See ya on the battlefield
lol, do you honestly not see the nerf? I don't wanna go into details but unless your'e telling me you have private cleric escort near everywhere you go so you don't need stealth you are the delusional here.
this is where you will feel the nerf:
- holding point against more than 1 player
- finishing running away players due to low dagger ammunition
- chasing someone in stealth with jump+dagger throw puts you in high danger of running out of stealth and therefore running slow out of stealth
- apply bleeds on another target that isn't focusing you, will reveal you (and if you don't use flurry, you're playing the class wrong lol, its like a free CC immunity whenever you want).
Anyway they haven't done a good nerf, they weakened rogue survivability, but most pugs complain about rogues lashing blade being so strong, so you will still see CW threads whining about being one shotted, but since rogues can only do that now, you won't see many skilled rogues anymore, you will see a rise in GF/GWF classes.
Our TR's already had GF/GWF alts and now they are moving all of their enchants to their new mains because new patch makes GWF/GF even more tanky in PvP. If you think PvP is bad now just wait a few weeks after new content patch. 2200 Regen for 8 Seconds with encounters permanent buff & Dmg buff bases on power!
If you think GWF Sentinels & High HP GFs are bad now just add another 2200 Regen.
Well this patch totally broke the rogue as far as PvP and PVE, if this change goes live make sure you remove all the other paths for rogue except executioner because if you don't you are selling a broken product to anyone that plays rogue seriously just grey them out if not you owe them all a free respect cause YOU put WORTHLESS tree in the game. Using Scoundrel tree was only good for PVP and lacks in PVE. You could still get by with attacking in stealth with your at-wills with cunning stalker and sneak of shadows. Now that at-wills deplete your stealth meter the whole tree is garbage for PvE and now for PVP as well. In PvP it was whoever saw the other rogue first wins the fight. Now it will be if you aren't speced executioner you lose the fight. ALL rogues will be lashing blade Vorpal-lashingblade ArP enchant one shotters. Know how to balance game? just remove bait and switch skill all together no perma-stealth rogue bam done. Fine keep it to 8 on CoS w/e. IMO Fix GWF and GF before you 'balance' Lurkers or GWF and GF will take 5 ppl to take down.
Nobody likes getting nerfed, get used to it and get over it. Also yeah stealth does deplete over time, guess you haven't read around enough to know that with the right build/gear a rogue can perma stealth. Theres a big difference between the rogues and the rest of the classes though, do you really not understand that? The difference being that you can see the other classes approaching and ready yourself, try to time a dodge on their cast. With the rogues they come in invisible and have the potential to one shot people. Also these changes really wont make your solo playing more difficult by any noticeable degree.
My main problem is with the nerfs to the powers. The damage decreases, stealth depletion leaving TRs vulnerable faster, and decreased ranged charges all make a big difference when you're alone and can't call for back-up -- I'm sure you know this unless you always play in a party, so I'm not going to keep going on that point.
I'm aware of perma-stealth rogues, but my impression is that doing a perma-stealth build exploits feats and powers in ways that the devs either didn't foresee or didn't think would be a problem. I agree perma-stealth is unfair to PVP players, assuming there's no way at all to see the stealthed TR. Can you still see a TR's name and target them if your reticule happens to hover over them while they're stealthed? If so, isn't that a balancing mechanism?
And if not, then why don't the devs allow you to target a stealthed TR if your reticule hovers over them? It seems to me that that would balance perma-stealth without ruining the point of stealth in the first place (they can only find you if they're paying attention), without messing stuff up for people who don't PVP. Since I don't PVP, I don't know if that would break TRs any more than the existing changes would, but if the real problem is with the perma-stealth build then why don't we hit it directly instead of dancing around it by nerfing powers?
The thing is perma-stealth rogues have NEVER been the problem. They are worthless and can't deal any damage what so ever.
Most of the complaints come from actual other builds while a rogue is stealthed, ignorant players assume these same attacks are coming from the perma-stealth rogue. They aren't and never have. So legit rogues are being punished because the whiners just plain suck at pvp and will always cry any time they are killed in pvp.
If you look at a huge majority of complaints about rogues in these forums, most have incorrect information or they are complete lies. Yet the community who are anti-rogue believe them to be facts. It is just silly that the Devs don't even take the time to fact check, they just take the whiny complaints as good enough data for them to react on.
If you have been following the nerfing of classes since closed beta, it just seems like an ongoing shot in the dark method of development. Like they are putting "solutions" on a dart board and just tossing the dart and where ever it lands that is the solution they implement. Either that or they are asking dolphins for advice.
I have a 60 10.5k TR as a reroll, and I agree that this class needed some nerfs. But I think the nerf is too much.
But TR is not the only breaking class in PVP, Conqueror GF is to me the most OP pvp class in the entire game. They seriously need to address that in a future patch.
Pretty sure you forum rogues have told every class to Lrn2play.
Maybe this time you will lrn.
The irony is just fantastic. Seriously the defense of your class is laughable. Permanent stealth lol.
Sadly this is true to some extent. At the start TRs were wildly OP compared to many other classes, it was scary to see the number of TR players who used to insist that it was simply a L2P issue for the other classes.
The pendulum might have swung now too far back (at least for TRs in PvP), but perhaps next time when a class is OP its players will realise that trying to pointlessly defend something that is clearly OP will simply result in massive nerfs down the line when the Devs finally (over-)react
To put this in perspective, I have two of each class at cap, so it doesn't really affect me either way. However, I do feel for the good of the game that having classes with obvious power disparities is a bad thing. That having been said idiotic SUPER-nerfing is not the way to go about it. As series of SMALL balance changes are much better so after each one you can see what the effect is. Then again these are the same Devs who decided to nerf the GWF DPS by 60% from closed to 'Open Beta', and one of whom still said they thought the class might be too strong after those nerfs......
I don't have to adapt as I never play my rogue in PVP. I don't like rogue, it's not fun and broken.
I only play my cleric, and I also had to adapt when they nerfed DC.
But the fact is that, even though I don't play rogue anymore, I still consider this nerf is too much.
And of course, I don't understand why they didn't work on GF Conqueror, this class/spec is breaking pvp.
Lurkers Assault is OP from the start 60% damage increase ( i forgot how strong it is before previous nerf)
LA> all daily (i think its the only daily that can 1 hit all class even if youre using average gears // LB is already OP you can 1hit with it even without LA using LA is overkill)
if you compare all the daily of all classes you will notice that its damage increase is really OP
they should fix tene first before balancing classes (it makes PVP unbalance)
theres no learn to play if you 1 hit others
LA nerf will affect dungeons a lot so they should balance dungeons unlimited adds and boss too
stealth nerf is ok and maybe they should just make stealth regen stable and remove stealth depletion when hit
Lurkers Assault is OP from the start 60% damage increase ( i forgot how strong it is before previous nerf)
LA> all daily (i think its the only daily that can 1 hit all class even if youre using average gears // LB is already OP you can 1hit with it even without LA using LA is overkill)
if you compare all the daily of all classes you will notice that its damage increase is really OP
they should fix tene first before balancing classes (it makes PVP unbalance)
theres no learn to play if you 1 hit others
LA nerf will affect dungeons a lot so they should balance dungeons unlimited adds and boss too
stealth nerf is ok and maybe they should just make stealth regen stable and remove stealth depletion when hit
You clearly have something between your ears as most TRs I see dont... :P
LA is SO strong its basically a staple for almost every TR build... 60% damage increase for 10 seconds?! whoever thought of that must have been high or something... NO other daily is even close to that strong and it allowed bad geared TRs to do insane damage against goldy geared players... This will go a LONG way in making DCs and CWs stronger in PVP, but also(im afraid) just made GFs and GWFs even more OP by comparison...
Tene NEEDS to be fixed which is what is causing most GFs and msot GWFs TO be OP... if they fix Tene enchants, it will balance those classes alot as well...
My idea was a 20% damage dim return for each proc within the 20 sec server CD... This would mean that if you did the math, 6 greater tenes would do about 11% of current HP instead of 18% if proced all within 20 seconds... If you got 2 procs in that 20 seconds you wont notice much damage loss... but all 6 or more... you will notice a huge cut in damage...
The LA affecting PVE is a HUGE concern so I hope they remove liek 20% of all adds on bosses and trash in dungeons to make them more fun and actually doable without throwing...
I have a 60 10.5k TR as a reroll, and I agree that this class needed some nerfs. But I think the nerf is too much.
But TR is not the only breaking class in PVP, Conqueror GF is to me the most OP pvp class in the entire game. They seriously need to address that in a future patch.
L2P - LOL!!!!!!!!! SO many TRs just say that when people were complaining about getting 1 shot by only a decent geared TR... maybe youll have to get a 12k+ GS now and a greater vorpal to 1 shot... some1... instead of having greens and a decent dagger to 1 shot a 12k GS CW or some DCs...
I don't have to adapt as I never play my rogue in PVP. I don't like rogue, it's not fun and broken.
I only play my cleric, and I also had to adapt when they nerfed DC.
But the fact is that, even though I don't play rogue anymore, I still consider this nerf is too much.
And of course, I don't understand why they didn't work on GF Conqueror, this class/spec is breaking pvp.
Well GF conqueror is the ONLY GF spec. We have to use that tree not just for PvP. It is the only viable PVE spec. I would love for other tree's in the GF paths to be viable but the fact is most parties don't need or want a GF and if the GF isn't conquer and doing Dps then he will never get a invite to CN. Hopefully tanks will be needed and the only real tank right now is a GWF sentinel the have more mitigation, immune, deflect and total HP. So the tank role is filled there. That just leaves the GF in a still desperate spot trying to figure out what role he can fill if any.
Our TR's already had GF/GWF alts and now they are moving all of their enchants to their new mains because new patch makes GWF/GF even more tanky in PvP. If you think PvP is bad now just wait a few weeks after new content patch. 2200 Regen for 8 Seconds with encounters permanent buff & Dmg buff bases on power!
If you think GWF Sentinels & High HP GFs are bad now just add another 2200 Regen.
I see it much more as a lrn2play issue for rogues. Dont be concerned for them. The are the master players as they have said many times b4 in the forums. Its not the class its their high level of skill.
The new campaign tree last buff gives you a chance to have 2200 regen for 8 seconds .
Then you need to change the class name into "The HAMSTER Assassin" instead of "Trickster Rogue"
You will change the entire class lore if you just "remove" the stealth , as it is what makes the rogue unique and unpredictable.
Thanks for the answer on the regen interesting.
I will have to disagree on the second part. You mentioned unique well every rogue in every game has stealth and that is not unique. Its kinda lazy design on the class. I can see them working on the rogue. Someone raises hand lets give it stealth and some skills ok sounds good next class. For the rogue to be a trickster it doesn't need stealth and be nice if NW actually put some solid work into the class to make it unique in this game. Regardless of the word trickster infront of rogue it is just the same as a rogue in any other game
If it was a trickster rogue then give it some unique abilities instead of just making for easy class design and saying ok stealth it is. I rather see something like a Mirror image where it drops 3 duplicates of its self that move and act like the main for 8 seconds. Now that is tricky.
Comments
Permastealth hasn't been removed. Haha
But do you use 6 or 7 Greater Tene's?
Dodging doesn't work half the time either.
Theres loads of moves that maul TR such as
The shield bash that knocks you flying that by the time you're up you've been bashed again and dead.
Long range casting from mages holding you still and damaging you as you try to run away while the rest of the team run in and kill you off. Or mages standing on the ledges above you and you can't attack back.
The special that holds up a shield and makes the player immune to damage.
I get up close to a mage hit them once and they turn around and hold you in place.
Getting held and dazed by the GF I think it is then they finish you off with the jumping attack.
If you use the supposed counters for these it makes you much less of a threat and are not much use other than getting points. All TR will be good for is capturing the odd point and assists and killing people with half there hitpoints gone using lashing blade.
If they are going to nerf that much in one go then they should be looking at nerfing other classes aswell.
how about using abilitys that don't need target? =O
if another rogue uses path of the blade (i belive thats the name), the slteth meter just desappear!!!
CW's have a harder time against invisible rogues, because their casting is so slow... but just have a rogue use path of the blade and BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAM...
BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAM
yes the rogue can use ITC or something, but w/e, you can also use other abilities... the rogue only stay perma invisible if you let him stay...
and you will still get one shotted... TENEBROUS BABY..... PERFECT VORPAL ................ if you don't wanna get one shotted, go farm gear or something... =\
lol, do you honestly not see the nerf? I don't wanna go into details but unless your'e telling me you have private cleric escort near everywhere you go so you don't need stealth you are the delusional here.
this is where you will feel the nerf:
- holding point against more than 1 player
- finishing running away players due to low dagger ammunition
- chasing someone in stealth with jump+dagger throw puts you in high danger of running out of stealth and therefore running slow out of stealth
- apply bleeds on another target that isn't focusing you, will reveal you (and if you don't use flurry, you're playing the class wrong lol, its like a free CC immunity whenever you want).
Anyway they haven't done a good nerf, they weakened rogue survivability, but most pugs complain about rogues lashing blade being so strong, so you will still see CW threads whining about being one shotted, but since rogues can only do that now, you won't see many skilled rogues anymore, you will see a rise in GF/GWF classes.
100% Agreed
Our TR's already had GF/GWF alts and now they are moving all of their enchants to their new mains because new patch makes GWF/GF even more tanky in PvP. If you think PvP is bad now just wait a few weeks after new content patch. 2200 Regen for 8 Seconds with encounters permanent buff & Dmg buff bases on power!
If you think GWF Sentinels & High HP GFs are bad now just add another 2200 Regen.
My main problem is with the nerfs to the powers. The damage decreases, stealth depletion leaving TRs vulnerable faster, and decreased ranged charges all make a big difference when you're alone and can't call for back-up -- I'm sure you know this unless you always play in a party, so I'm not going to keep going on that point.
I'm aware of perma-stealth rogues, but my impression is that doing a perma-stealth build exploits feats and powers in ways that the devs either didn't foresee or didn't think would be a problem. I agree perma-stealth is unfair to PVP players, assuming there's no way at all to see the stealthed TR. Can you still see a TR's name and target them if your reticule happens to hover over them while they're stealthed? If so, isn't that a balancing mechanism?
And if not, then why don't the devs allow you to target a stealthed TR if your reticule hovers over them? It seems to me that that would balance perma-stealth without ruining the point of stealth in the first place (they can only find you if they're paying attention), without messing stuff up for people who don't PVP. Since I don't PVP, I don't know if that would break TRs any more than the existing changes would, but if the real problem is with the perma-stealth build then why don't we hit it directly instead of dancing around it by nerfing powers?
Kaylee Krankenwagen, level 60 GF | Tavandruil Wayfinder, level 49 GWF | Aldith Langley, level 51 HR
Most of the complaints come from actual other builds while a rogue is stealthed, ignorant players assume these same attacks are coming from the perma-stealth rogue. They aren't and never have. So legit rogues are being punished because the whiners just plain suck at pvp and will always cry any time they are killed in pvp.
If you look at a huge majority of complaints about rogues in these forums, most have incorrect information or they are complete lies. Yet the community who are anti-rogue believe them to be facts. It is just silly that the Devs don't even take the time to fact check, they just take the whiny complaints as good enough data for them to react on.
If you have been following the nerfing of classes since closed beta, it just seems like an ongoing shot in the dark method of development. Like they are putting "solutions" on a dart board and just tossing the dart and where ever it lands that is the solution they implement. Either that or they are asking dolphins for advice.
Why don't they just change of tab ability to something else?
I feel sorry for anyone who falls for such lazy trolling.
But TR is not the only breaking class in PVP, Conqueror GF is to me the most OP pvp class in the entire game. They seriously need to address that in a future patch.
- DRAGON - ( Mehrea DC 13.1k ) - ( Volsung TR 11.7k )
Sadly this is true to some extent. At the start TRs were wildly OP compared to many other classes, it was scary to see the number of TR players who used to insist that it was simply a L2P issue for the other classes.
The pendulum might have swung now too far back (at least for TRs in PvP), but perhaps next time when a class is OP its players will realise that trying to pointlessly defend something that is clearly OP will simply result in massive nerfs down the line when the Devs finally (over-)react
To put this in perspective, I have two of each class at cap, so it doesn't really affect me either way. However, I do feel for the good of the game that having classes with obvious power disparities is a bad thing. That having been said idiotic SUPER-nerfing is not the way to go about it. As series of SMALL balance changes are much better so after each one you can see what the effect is. Then again these are the same Devs who decided to nerf the GWF DPS by 60% from closed to 'Open Beta', and one of whom still said they thought the class might be too strong after those nerfs......
TR should not complain in the forum, but learn to play their Class, LMAO, im new to this game, but read that line too often from TR's,
I only play my cleric, and I also had to adapt when they nerfed DC.
But the fact is that, even though I don't play rogue anymore, I still consider this nerf is too much.
And of course, I don't understand why they didn't work on GF Conqueror, this class/spec is breaking pvp.
- DRAGON - ( Mehrea DC 13.1k ) - ( Volsung TR 11.7k )
LA> all daily (i think its the only daily that can 1 hit all class even if youre using average gears // LB is already OP you can 1hit with it even without LA using LA is overkill)
if you compare all the daily of all classes you will notice that its damage increase is really OP
they should fix tene first before balancing classes (it makes PVP unbalance)
theres no learn to play if you 1 hit others
LA nerf will affect dungeons a lot so they should balance dungeons unlimited adds and boss too
stealth nerf is ok and maybe they should just make stealth regen stable and remove stealth depletion when hit
You clearly have something between your ears as most TRs I see dont... :P
LA is SO strong its basically a staple for almost every TR build... 60% damage increase for 10 seconds?! whoever thought of that must have been high or something... NO other daily is even close to that strong and it allowed bad geared TRs to do insane damage against goldy geared players... This will go a LONG way in making DCs and CWs stronger in PVP, but also(im afraid) just made GFs and GWFs even more OP by comparison...
Tene NEEDS to be fixed which is what is causing most GFs and msot GWFs TO be OP... if they fix Tene enchants, it will balance those classes alot as well...
My idea was a 20% damage dim return for each proc within the 20 sec server CD... This would mean that if you did the math, 6 greater tenes would do about 11% of current HP instead of 18% if proced all within 20 seconds... If you got 2 procs in that 20 seconds you wont notice much damage loss... but all 6 or more... you will notice a huge cut in damage...
The LA affecting PVE is a HUGE concern so I hope they remove liek 20% of all adds on bosses and trash in dungeons to make them more fun and actually doable without throwing...
OH and....
L2P - LOL!!!!!!!!! SO many TRs just say that when people were complaining about getting 1 shot by only a decent geared TR... maybe youll have to get a 12k+ GS now and a greater vorpal to 1 shot... some1... instead of having greens and a decent dagger to 1 shot a 12k GS CW or some DCs...
Well GF conqueror is the ONLY GF spec. We have to use that tree not just for PvP. It is the only viable PVE spec. I would love for other tree's in the GF paths to be viable but the fact is most parties don't need or want a GF and if the GF isn't conquer and doing Dps then he will never get a invite to CN. Hopefully tanks will be needed and the only real tank right now is a GWF sentinel the have more mitigation, immune, deflect and total HP. So the tank role is filled there. That just leaves the GF in a still desperate spot trying to figure out what role he can fill if any.
That's a great idea I mean a rogue doesn't have to have stealth.
Where is the extra 2200 regen coming from
The new campaign tree last buff gives you a chance to have 2200 regen for 8 seconds .
Then you need to change the class name into "The HAMSTER Assassin" instead of "Trickster Rogue"
You will change the entire class lore if you just "remove" the stealth , as it is what makes the rogue unique and unpredictable.
or fighting while they cant see you even if you hit them more than 8x or more?
if they implement it you can tell now whose pro and no0b TR
but they should fix tene first its the reason for all PVP rage post
They will adapt and lrn2play better.
You enjoy your dps on bosses using GWF's or CW's lol.
/golf clap to the QQer's who really didnt realise what would happen when they demanded a nerf.
People have made their bed, I hope they enjoy laying it.
Thanks for the answer on the regen interesting.
I will have to disagree on the second part. You mentioned unique well every rogue in every game has stealth and that is not unique. Its kinda lazy design on the class. I can see them working on the rogue. Someone raises hand lets give it stealth and some skills ok sounds good next class. For the rogue to be a trickster it doesn't need stealth and be nice if NW actually put some solid work into the class to make it unique in this game. Regardless of the word trickster infront of rogue it is just the same as a rogue in any other game
If it was a trickster rogue then give it some unique abilities instead of just making for easy class design and saying ok stealth it is. I rather see something like a Mirror image where it drops 3 duplicates of its self that move and act like the main for 8 seconds. Now that is tricky.