test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

Des's GF Interceptor Tank Build

desjardiniidesjardinii Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 193 Bounty Hunter
edited March 2014 in The Militia Barracks
GF Interceptor Tank Build


First off I would like to say that there are some great build guides for the conqueror specs for PVP and PVE, and the Ageis Wrathful Defender guide is strong as well, so what I put together is by no means a replacement for them. Its more so a bit from Venores Turtle guide, with some differences in playstyle and skills. I find that people have different play styles and have a vision of how they want to play their class. I have had a bunch of conversations in enclave and various groups about different types of tanking setups. It seems there are a lot of players who want the ability to tank mobs, like in most games, instead of being the guy to gather them up and either nascar them around in a circle, or just pull them in a nice group for the CW to punt them off. It also seems that there is a general theme across the board where a 5 man group is 5 solo players doing their own thing to complete the end goal of killing the boss for loot, instead of working together as a team, and having their skills synergize with the group for efficiency and making for a smooth fast run. Are their placed mobs should be tossed off…sure. Are there places where they can’t…of course. Do bad pulls happen? To many adds? Group members colorblind and can’t see red areas? It is in these situations where I think this build excels. I am in now way an expert on GF, nor on tanking, but rather I just try to pull from others experiences on what works and what doesnt. There are multiple ways to play classes, people just need to sort out what works for them.

It is definitely not a build for everyone. If you are a DPS junky AND a GF, this is not the build for you. The goal of this build is not high DPS numbers, but rather the ability to have a smooth run through a dungeon, using minimal pots, and having minimal deaths, while holding aggro and allowing the rest of the party to maximize their capabilities. Even with reduced DPS numbers, it has in no way slowed down our dungeon runs. For those that would say that if you are not putting up huge DPS numbers you are dead weight in a party, all I can say is that the groups that I run with love the build over the conqueror Spec I used to run, and like the dungeon runs a lot better. Also with the upcoming change of the bosses leashing to their areas, groups are going to have to have a way of dealing with adds.

Before I respecced, I was running a full conq. Build, 14.9K GS. I had great DPS numbers using lunging strike, kneebreaker, knights challenge, and Anvil as needed. Personally I felt I was a bit squishy, and was going through a lot of potions. That could have been me, or the healer, or the group as a whole, however I wanted to find a way to make it work. So off I went to the preview shard and started trying to break my build, using CN mobs as my gauge. Afterwards, with some gear changes I ended up down to 11.8 (that 100% power boost sure pads GS). So with all that if you are still interested…here is how it all works.

The basic concept of this build is to be able to gather mobs to your location, and tank them in one spot, while being able to mitigate damage effectively to sustain through the whole fight. Secondly is to intercept any damage from stray mobs, AOE’s, and other randoms to the rest of your party. This is done with a combination of knights valor(KV) and supremacy of steel (SoS) along with a higher damage resistance and deflect rating. By using KV to intercept damage, you are helping the party in their damage mitigation, plus it builds a good amount of threat. When KV is used with SoS you are now damaging the mobs that are targeting your party. SoS also causes the plague fire enchantment to proc on those mobs, so now when they start heading your direction they already have a debuff/DoT on them. It makes for a nice combination when you have a CW or GWF doing AoE damage on all the mobs. In order to understand the strength of KV, I find it easier to show the numbers that we worked out while testing it out in various situations.
Mob hits DC for 1K damage Raw
KV is active, so it gets cut in half off the top, leaving the DC 500 damage to have to calculate, with 500 going to you.
Then the DC’s Damage Mitigation kicks in so say its 30% for easy numbers. That means that from that original 1K hit, he only gets hit for 350.
If you have your shield up on your GF, which you do a lot of with this build, you will also absorb that remaining 350 into your guard meter.
Any damage that comes your way is then factored in by your mitigation, and applied to your guard meter.

While is sounds like a lot of damage incoming, its not as bad as it seems because of skill selections. I chose skills to increase guard meter, and damage mitigation, in addition to pushing my defense a bit above the diminishing returns side of things.

Here is a link to the Neverwinter Calculator for my powers and feats:
http://nwcalc.com/#/gf?b=pa7:4im0s:b65w,13i9n05:60000:6uzzv:60000&h=1


Powers:

Cleave 3/3
Tide of Iron 3/3
Lunging Strike 3/3
Villians Menace 3/3
Shield Talent 3/3
Enforced Threat 3/3
Griffon’s Wrath 3/3
Fighter’s Recovery 3/3
Kneebreaker 3/3
Enhanced mark 3/3
Combat Superiority
Knights Challenge 3/3
Anvil of Doom 3/3
Frontline Surge 3/3

Threatening Rush 3/3
Into The Fray 3/3
Supremacy of Steel 3/3
Iron Warrior 3/3
Knight’s Valor 3/3
Bull Rush 3/3

Indomitable Strength 1/3

Feats:

Action Surge 0/5 - I felt that the AP gain was not needed. In an add heavy fight I can cast SoS every time KV is up
Strength Focus 3/3 - Increased Strength equals more guard meter.
Toughness 3/3 - 9% more HP is always a good thing, especially with the alrge pool we begin with.
Shielded Resurgence 0/3 - Not needed for the HP regen. Believe it or not, even with the large amount of damage you have incoming, this is an easy build for a healer.
Distracting Shield 1/5 - Needed to put a point somewhere…
Armor Specialization 3/3 - 15% Increased Armor and defense. Every bit helps out in the end
Potent Challenge 3/3 - Greater Threat generation. Since you are not doing as much damage, I find this helps out.
Powerful Attack 5/5 - The added damage for your at wills helps with both increase damage as well as increase guard regeneration from what I could tell.
Grit 0/3 - Not needed
Pin Down 0/3 - Not needed
Ubiquitous Shield 5/5 - Ok this one will probably stir some debate. While under most cases I would agree that it is a lazy skill, with this build it helps a lot. Because you are using KV and SoS to grab adds from all over the map, you cannot always reposition to get all the archers on one side, or whatever mobs are harassing you. Also if you keep running all over, that means so does everyone else. With the reduction in the combat advantage damage they have on you, its not bad at all. I tried the build with it off, and points elsewhere, but it was definitely noticeable.

Paragon Feats:

Armor of Bahamut 0/5 - This skill is a toss up. I can see its value, however my shield doesn’t break often, and when it does, its not broke for long with the skills I use.
Plate Agility 5/5 - +5% Deflection – noticeable improvement
Improved Reaction 0/5 - I don’t use the skill enough to warrant points here
Shield Defense 5/5 - +5 Armor Class translates to an additional 2.5% mitigation. Also I am not sure if there is an underlying mechanic when it comes to AC and mobs damage aside from the damage mitigation. The benefit to this is that it’s a flat 2.5% increase above any diminishing returns.
Shield Master 5/5 - 10% reduction in the amount the guard meter is consumed. That a flat 10% reduction on the block side of it. Keep in mind that before you block the damage is reduced by your mitigation, then passes the leftover to the shield to block. That will drop it down even more. Less guard meter consumed means more attacks you are able to block.
Brawling Warrior 5/5 - Increase to Knights valor and enforced threat. Both are key skills in the build so it made sense to go with the skill.
Balance Shield Fighter 5/5 - Since you will have your shield up a lot of the time, it makes sense to get an additional 15% damage to them. Add that to powerful attack and you are looking at a 25% increase.
Overwhelming Impact 5/5 - Adds a 5% debuff to the targets with SoS. Add that to the debuff from the plaguefire and any other skills and the mobs melt faster.
Iron guard 1/1 - 10% damage reduction max (2% per hit) This is yet another mititgation tool that reduces the mobs damage dealt, so its dropped down before it even gets to your mitigation.

The skills I use on a normal rotation:

Passives:

Shield Talent – 15% increased guard meter. Since the goal is to be able to take a lot of damage, the higher your guard meter the better. This passive also plays off of your strength, and the feats Strength Focus (15% boost to strength so more guard meter), and Shield Master for a 10% reduction in your damage to your guard.

Enhanced Mark – Increased aggro and faster threat generation helps to hang on to mobs so that DPS classes can go crazy on them without them peeling off. Works well with both Enforced Threat and Threatening Rush

At Wills:

Cleave: Great overall high damage AOE skill. I use it a lot to clean up adds when either guard is broken or its not a big deal to keep your shield up to block. It has a bit faster cycle time than the Shield stab at will on Tab.

Threatening Rush: Best way to start a fight in my opinion. Rush in, hit a group of targets and grab that initial aggro, mark them and then start in on your rotation. It is also helpful on those mobs that love to teleport all over the place and are CC immune. (spider queen anyone?)

Tide of Iron: I slot this on boss fights for the debuff as well as increased guard meter replenishment. I normally trade this out with cleave. The more the target is debuffed, the faster it drops, the faster we move through the dungeon.

Encounters:

Enforced Threat: Great AOE threat generator, recovers guard meter, and a good AOE damage skill as well. With large numbers of adds, it is also a great AP generator. Since I use Brawling Warrior, it also reduces incoming damage by 10% as well. This fits in with the goal of generating aggro, and being able to reduce and mitigate damage.

Knights Valor: Intercepts 50% of damage to party, and builds threat based on that. With the brawling warrior feat, KV also gives you an additional 5% damage resistance helping to mitigate any damage that makes it through. KV’s appears to work off of line of sight and has a pretty far range to it. Furthest that we noticed was in Gauntlgrym near the main hall, when one of my party members was about 300 away and still got the buff. KV also builds a ton of AP when you use it as well. At rank 3 it lasts for 10 seconds with 10 second cool down. While it is a decent skill on its own I think with SoS it really shines. I have read a lot of posts where they say that if mobs are hitting your party you are doing something wrong, but the reality is that on most boss fights there are always ranged mobs that are on the outskirts, out of singularity range that like to pick at your clerics and CW’s. This grabs those guys from clear across the room and pulls them to you. While I know a lot of people report it is very buggy, I have only had one instance where it was stuck looping.

Iron Warrior: I use this skill about 4 seconds into KV. It helps your guard meter from breaking, helps recover your guard meter, and gives temp hit points. It synergizes well with helping you block more incoming damage.

Dailies:

Supremacy of Steel: Damages targets damaging you. That also includes when you receive damage through knights valor. So when that ranged add targets the CW, and you intercept the damage, you are now damaging him clear across the room and pulling him towards you without even having to move around to tab mark him. Depending on your weapon enchants, it will also cause those to proc as well. Lastly you can “pop” it like the CW’s do their shield to damage enemies around you for a decent amount. At level 3 of the skill it lasts 10 seconds. So I normally will pop KV, then this and as soon as KV ends I pop SoS again for more damage.

Fighters Recovery: This is a great self heal that you can use in a pinch. It is rare that I ever use it though. I keep it on my bar as an insurance policy if you will.


Rotation:

Threatening Rush -> Enforced Threat -> Knights valor -> Supremacy of Steel -> Shield Stab/Block (tabbed at wills) -> pop SoS -> Enforced threat -> block and/or cleave as situation dictates -> repeat with Enforced threat then KV.

The biggest thing about this build is your ability to maintain situational awareness a lot more than just looking for red stuff on the ground. You do not always need to pop KV. Often times I will wait till either another group spawns, we pull more in, or I notice someone can’t seem to keep out of the red to cast it. While this build focuses on pulling a lot of adds to you, plus taking damage from the ones that are not directly attacking you, you are specced and gear focused to be able to absorb that damage.


Gear:

My goal was to get a high enough damage resistance and deflection and then to balance that out with power/armor pen/recovery. My gear is a work in progress as I still have a bunch of stuff from my conq. Spec. however I found that thestats I had from those balance out the build a bit better than stacking recovery, more defense, or delfection.

Armor : Grand Regent set – 2 piece bonus 450 Defense; 4 piece set bonus you get power from 20% of your defense. Note that this gear has NO power on it at all, but instead pulls from all your defensive stats. More on defense in a bit.

Weapon/Shield: I chose the Ancient Grand Knight set. It has decent power as a base, but it has the 450 defense bonus for both. Coupled with the grand regent armor set, that essentially adds 90 to the power putting it at 1185, which is only 200 less power than the timeless one. With 25 power roughly equaling 1 additional damage point, the Ancient sword comes ahead since it is 15 points higher for base damage.

Neck: Ancient Excorsist Neckalce of Blessings – +154 Power, crit, armor pen.

Rings: Ancient Slavemaster Rings of Control – +154 Power, crit, recovery.

Belt: Lethal Occult Belt (Blue with Offense slot) +243 Crit, +133 recovery.

Shirt: Gemmed Shirt

Pants Gemmed Pants


Enchantments:

Offense – I went with a mix of Dark for armor pen, and radiant. I currently have an armor pen rating of 18% combined, so I am doing max damage and generating max threat on the majority of the mobs that I may not be directly hitting. I wasn’t as worried about the boss for the additional 6% since I am normally shield stabbing it and that generates a lot of threat by itself.

Defense: In my armor pieces I went with Azure for a bit more defense. And yes I know its above diminishing returns. In my other gear I have radiants for more HP.

Utility: Dark in all for movement bonuses. We don’t have all those neat skills to move fast.

Personally I think enchantments are very subjective. It depends on what levels you have in there, and what gaps in skill points you are trying to close. I am constantly swapping around rank 5’s and trying different things. I also use a stone of allure, which in my opinion is probably the best AD/zen you can spend in game. There is nothing like having 3 extra rune slots, 3 extra item slots, and all the stats passing over to you.

Weapon: Personally I like the plague fire enchantments as a tank. It flushes out my role as damage mitigator/debuffer. I have tried all of the others on test, and for what I do that one seems to work best. I tried a greater lifedrinker, but I was not impressed with the health it returned since it was only weapon damage. I think I was getting like 40 HP back each time. Some people swear by it, Im just not a fan.

Armor: A lot of debate over which is better, negation or soulforged. Since I run a higher mitigation to begin with, plus I have skils and feats that increase it, I opted for soulforged. It is not often that I will drop below 25% health, it does happen from time to time. I guess I look at the soulforged enchantment as that added insurance policy for a potion of a few seconds for the cleric to get AS down. I have looked at the briartwine also, but have not tried it yet. With the amount of damage I receive I think it may be an interesting one. It is on my to do list for test to see if it reflects damage pre shield block or post block, as well as if it reflects based off of KV as well.


Stats:

Ability Scores: I focused on Strength and Constitution for all my upgrades. I figured that would be the best bang for my buck.

Defense and damage mitigation: Based on how the build is set up, I wanted to focus on defense above the diminishing returns point to see what difference it made. Currently I am at 4884, which I am certain many will say is to high, however it puts me at 37.4% damage mitigation from defense alone. Add in Armor Class and other skills and I am at 50.9%, which for whatever reason is a noticeable difference from the low 40’s where I was before.

Deflection: Currently my deflection is at 23%. I played around with slotting more deflection accessories, and stacking stones, but I was not noticing a big difference compared to what I was giving up with the loss of Armor Pen.

Power: I put points into here to keep my damage up when attacking and bashing with my shield Currently at 4K

Recovery: For recovery I went with the values on the gear that I was wearing. That put me around 1800. Again I played around with slotting different enchants, but the difference was in tenths of seconds, so I figured I could use the points elsewhere.

Armor Pen: My goal was to be at the 18% mark for Armor Pen plus Dexterity bonus. Since that is where the bulk of the mobs are, it worked for me. I wanted to be able to inflict max damage for max agro generation on the trash. Also my enchants are nowhere to even being close ot max. Not even all level 7s so I have a lot of room to expand from there.

Crit: I am currently at 15% crit rate. Since I wasn’t going for max DPS, I was not focused on it. Most of what I have is left over from gear that I was using on my conq. Spec.


PVP

I will be the 1st to admit that it is not even close to being an ideal OFFENSIVE build for PVP. As a defensive or utility it is fun to play. Keep in mind I am in no way a hardcore PVPer, but do it for enjoyment. Often times people will tend to go for the squishies 1st, and the tanks last. So I will keep a similar rotation with KV and SoS and hang back so the other classes can get in and engage. Then I can pop KV and put my shield up and block a ton of damage on them. With supremacy of steel active I’ve watched it kill a CW who cast Conduit of Ice on the group and since it was constant damage to the group, SoS was shooting out faster than I’ve ever seen it. It was almost like watching the knife attack that the rogues use. I wasn’t running tenebrous at the time, but I would imagine that they would proc as well off of that. That may be painful…hmmm more stuff for test to check out.

Conclusion

Like I said in the beginning, this is not a build for everyone. I am in no way an expert in the game, or on tanking. However I have ran groups with folks who have asked me about it afterword’s. When I get groups who say it was a smooth run, and that there were pulls that we should have probably wiped on, but didn’t, well then that’s enough endorsement for me. I enjoy the build, and the play style. By all means do not take this as a defacto build to copy from, but instead draw from it, see what works, and adapt it to what works for you. Now it becomes a challenge to see how many mobs we can pull at once for any given fight. We have gone to actually fighting bosses with their adds and not dancing all over with them. This lets the CW’s and GWF hit both the boss and the adds at the same time, burning through things faster. I guess in the end I wanted to play a tank, not a Guardian Great Weapon Fighter.
Post edited by desjardinii on
«13

Comments

  • derpaderpistderpaderpist Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    GF Interceptor Tank Build


    First off I would like to say that there are some great build guides for the conqueror specs for PVP and PVE, and the Ageis Wrathful Defender guide is strong as well, so what I put together is by no means a replacement for them. Its more so a bit from Venores Turtle guide, with some differences in playstyle and skills. I find that people have different play styles and have a vision of how they want to play their class. I have had a bunch of conversations in enclave and various groups about different types of tanking setups. It seems there are a lot of players who want the ability to tank mobs, like in most games, instead of being the guy to gather them up and either nascar them around in a circle, or just pull them in a nice group for the CW to punt them off. It also seems that there is a general theme across the board where a 5 man group is 5 solo players doing their own thing to complete the end goal of killing the boss for loot, instead of working together as a team, and having their skills synergize with the group for efficiency and making for a smooth fast run. Are their placed mobs should be tossed off

    HUEHUE best buildz eva mang .
    " We live in an age of the cheaply made, disposable, high priced junk. " - theunwarshed
  • desjardiniidesjardinii Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 193 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    Post fail...had the whole thing typed up and it only posted the 1st paragraph....its been corrected lol.
  • mrexploitermrexploiter Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 24 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Having read through most of this guide and looking at your build I wanted to say, I'm currently conq build and liking it's damage. I'm currently making another tank and was going to do something like this as well. I agree with most of your build, I would just move some points around. Take a look at this and tell me what you think.

    http://nwcalc.com/gf?b=pa7:4ilvz:b664,13i9n05:60000:6uzu1:b5000&h=1

    Powers:
    In the powers section, I ended up with about 3 points to spare so I threw it into Knight's Challenge.
    I personally like Ferocious Reaction, for clutch situations. (So I'd take it over Enhanced Mark)
    I think you only really need 1 point in Combat Superiority, anything else is overkill b/c it just increases the duration and you can constantly have this refresh during combat anyways. (I threw the rest of the points here into Indomitable Strength)

    Feats:
    I took points out of Balanced Shield Fighter and put it into Fight On. (I just like the way it makes combat flow better)
    I also took points out of Overwhelming Impact and put it into Daunting Challenge (I feel like this just helps with the whole damage mitigation idea. Lowering damage resistance through SoS, just seems situational whereas you can probably get more use out of this.)
    These points can also go into Improved Reaction if you want to increase your personal survivability even more (with my build, b/c I favor Ferocious Reaction)

    Keep in mind these are my opinions and in no way trying to insult your guide. I liked it as a whole and I agree with a lot of your points.
  • desjardiniidesjardinii Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 193 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    Having read through most of this guide and looking at your build I wanted to say, I'm currently conq build and liking it's damage. I'm currently making another tank and was going to do something like this as well. I agree with most of your build, I would just move some points around. Take a look at this and tell me what you think.

    http://nwcalc.com/gf?b=pa7:4ilvz:b664,13i9n05:60000:6uzu1:b5000&h=1

    Powers:
    In the powers section, I ended up with about 3 points to spare so I threw it into Knight's Challenge.
    I personally like Ferocious Reaction, for clutch situations. (So I'd take it over Enhanced Mark)
    I think you only really need 1 point in Combat Superiority, anything else is overkill b/c it just increases the duration and you can constantly have this refresh during combat anyways. (I threw the rest of the points here into Indomitable Strength)

    Feats:
    I took points out of Balanced Shield Fighter and put it into Fight On. (I just like the way it makes combat flow better)
    I also took points out of Overwhelming Impact and put it into Daunting Challenge (I feel like this just helps with the whole damage mitigation idea. Lowering damage resistance through SoS, just seems situational whereas you can probably get more use out of this.)
    These points can also go into Improved Reaction if you want to increase your personal survivability even more (with my build, b/c I favor Ferocious Reaction)

    Keep in mind these are my opinions and in no way trying to insult your guide. I liked it as a whole and I agree with a lot of your points.

    Powers - I had 3 in knights challenge as well. And I would agree, that alot of the others I selected from the list are situational.

    Feats - Fight on, at 5/5 and 10% if shaved about 1 second off the the longer skills. In the end it comes down to damage or uptime on skills. Since I am not always casting KV and sometimes it is sitting idle when I have all the agro, i felt that the shortened encounter time was not justified. Where as in a pure ofensive combat rotation where you are spamming encounter powers its an increase in DPS essentially. In regards to Daunting Challenge, we had a big discussion over this feat. I agree 100% on you reasoning in theory, however often times your party is not taking much damage at all. It is one of those skill rotations that it helps to see. Normally with KV up, they may get hit once or twice by an add before the peel off and come to me. Normally it is not enough tpo drop thier helth down far enough to be of any concern, and it cna be healed easily enough when AS is up.

    I appreciate the feedback, and like I said its a guide :) play test it, and tweak as it suits an individual playstyle. The test server is a great place to try out gear, and skills since there are free respecs. I have bought a ton of stuf on the AH, kept it unbound, then copied my character to test to try it out. Some I kept, and some I relisted as it didnt work.
  • mrexploitermrexploiter Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 24 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Yea, I know about the PTR. I like testing things on there. I don't know if you've tried this armor set out or not, but what's your take on Knight Captain's set vs Grand Regent? People say it's good, but having tested it out in some of my runs it just doesn't come out to be as good as everyone makes it to be. (Same exact group, just switched out gear to test) I find the Knight Captain's set feels very squishy, and a lot needs to be done in terms of enchants and gear to make it as good as other sets.
  • fondlezfondlez Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    The test server is a great place to try out gear, and skills since there are free respecs. I have bought a ton of stuf on the AH, kept it unbound, then copied my character to test to try it out. Some I kept, and some I relisted as it didnt work.

    Did you ever try Lightning, Greater Lightning or Perfect Lightning?
  • desjardiniidesjardinii Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 193 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    I have used the Knights Captains set, and while I like it, I think it is somewhat situational and group dependent as well. But I would also agree that it is a squishier feeling armor set. I am not at home atm, so i cant remember the differences in Defense and deflection it left me with. For T1 runs that I am helping guildies with, I like it. Its great with new healers who may lack the gear for that added push to the power for their heals. I have all 3 T2 sets, Stalwarts, and Knights captain, and off the five I like the way the Grand Regent worked with the build. As far as T1 sets go for starting off with this build, I would suggest the Valiant Warrior set. It has decent power as a base, and the set bonuses will help cover the defense and deflection.
  • desjardiniidesjardinii Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 193 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    fondlez wrote: »
    Did you ever try Lightning, Greater Lightning or Perfect Lightning?

    Yes. I tried the greater lightning enchantment. Its a fun one for sure, however the problem I ran into was when SoS hit a ranged archer and it procced the lightning enchantment, it had a high probability to aggro additional mobs even more so than when it can jump from the mobs right in front of you. However stick that greater lightning on a CW and have him cast icy terrain on those same mobs you pulled in, and you will have an awsome icy lightning storm, with all the lag to boot from the ground effects.

    Raw DPS wise I liked the flaming one. It does great damage, plus it makes your sword look pretty cool.
  • satyr69satyr69 Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    The theory crafting behind this, along with the trials you did do give credibility to it. I ran something similar before i re-sped into a mobility DPS build, and i was always the last man standing when the stuff hit the fan. I had run with the +20% guard armor set, i forget name. along with talent. Anyways great build, really works, thanks for putting it up here.
  • willstrwillstr Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 79
    edited July 2013
    when i ran with the guy, i could stand taking hits that would normally make me wanna withdraw. one thing i am not afraid now is to play as i want cause i know i don't have to worry even if i take a hit by mistake. Pvp side, it gives much lesser kills but it can halt enemy progress as it got good tanking and stay at enemy base needing 2 or 3 players together to kill one guy, after all its about time and score
  • desjardiniidesjardinii Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 193 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    satyr69 wrote: »
    The theory crafting behind this, along with the trials you did do give credibility to it. I ran something similar before i re-sped into a mobility DPS build, and i was always the last man standing when the stuff hit the fan. I had run with the +20% guard armor set, i forget name. along with talent. Anyways great build, really works, thanks for putting it up here.

    Thanks. I can tell you it works great in dungeons. With the last patch, alot of people are talking about issues with having to actually deal with adds in the dungeons now. This handles them like a champ.
  • kimonkakimonka Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Oh my god, thank you so much for this guide!
    I went with rokuthy's build, but I was finding out that I didn't last long at all with the barrrage of adds, and did less damage than a cleric :P. Since i'm a more defensive guy and could care less about DPS, this guide would def. make my life easier :D. Probably going to respec to this after I reach level 60.
  • tarmalentarmalen Member Posts: 1,020 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    I run with Des frequently. I can tell the difference before and after respec. When I run around like a mad man (GWF) and aggro mobs, they ignore me and head his way. This is a bonus from my perspective since the mobs group up and keep me topped off via reducing my incoming damage from aoe/ranged, more targets for my lifesteal and the fact that I rarely pull aggro. Not to mention he is no longer squisher than I am ;)
  • desjardiniidesjardinii Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 193 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    kimonka wrote: »
    Oh my god, thank you so much for this guide!
    I went with rokuthy's build, but I was finding out that I didn't last long at all with the barrrage of adds, and did less damage than a cleric :P. Since i'm a more defensive guy and could care less about DPS, this guide would def. make my life easier :D. Probably going to respec to this after I reach level 60.

    Before you respec on live, I would reccomend going over to the preview shard and checking things out there. Respecs are free there, and you can tweak as needed when you pop back over to live.
  • fondlezfondlez Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    I used the ideas from this thread and from my own testing using only the Power rotation alone as Conq. specced, I agree it works extremely well for aggro. I switch over to it when kiting and being able to kite every single add, even ranged, with this build is quite amazing! :)

    From my own testing, I am also starting to agree with Des that GPF is indeed the most threatful and useful PvE weapon enchantment too but without the nuisance pulls of Lightning.

    So, I imagine a full respec into this build would be impressive for threat and overall tanking.

    Good effort, Des!
  • tarmalentarmalen Member Posts: 1,020 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    Des is dreading when I slot lightning. ;)
  • desjardiniidesjardinii Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 193 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    tarmalen wrote: »
    Des is dreading when I slot lightning. ;)

    You ar eonly allowed to use it if you pull mobs 2 rooms back :p
  • grimslawgrimslaw Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 43
    edited July 2013
    So with this build you can actually be a tank? Can you keep say like 5 mobs under control (cap on aoe threat I believe) by yourself? Conq spec is fun but I don't feel like a tank. More like one armed rogue that can grab aggro but then can't take the hits.
  • desjardiniidesjardinii Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 193 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    grimslaw wrote: »
    So with this build you can actually be a tank? Can you keep say like 5 mobs under control (cap on aoe threat I believe) by yourself? Conq spec is fun but I don't feel like a tank. More like one armed rogue that can grab aggro but then can't take the hits.

    I can grab alot more than 5. While most skils have a cap of 5 targets, (which makes no sense whatsoever but thats a different thread) when I use Knights Valor I am not directly taunting other mobs, so it builds threat on those ones that are out of range from enforced threat. Most fights all seem to work under some form of the same concept from cryptics mob placement. Stick some melee mobs in the middle with ranged adds on the outside. So as a tank you have a few ways you can deal with them.

    A) Threatening rush into the bulk of them, followed by enforced threat if needed, then tab target or run around to grab the ranged adds. In my opinion this presents 2 problems. First if you are runing around trying to get a clear line of sight to tab target or just plain hit the ranged mobs, the rest of the pack MAY be chasing you, or they could have peeled off to hit someoen else again, resulting in the never ending cycle of add management. Second, if you are dragging mobs all over it makes it harder for a DC to drop an AS where the tank is, as well as other class that are dropping some sort of efects on the ground to DPS/control the mobs.

    B) The way I do it with this build in the same fight is to threatening rush into the room to grab the bulk of the close in aggro on me. I am not even concerning myself with the ranged adds yet. Pop Knights Valor with Supremace of steel (if up, which it normally is) so as those ranged adds start attacking anyone else, The agro generation mechanic from KV kicks in and pulls them off of the party and on to me. I am no longer running around all over to get line of sight to tab a mob, so it makes it easy for the DC, CW, and GWF to burn them down. It is important, and i cant stress this enough that when KV is active that you are blocking as much as possible. you will get a ton of damage incoming, but it can be easily blocked. Also your shield stab Tab at wil is also an AOE, although its a narower cone. If my guard meter is dropping fast, I will use the shield smash tabbed skill to keep the guard meter longer. Normally by the point when KV is on cool down, I have the bulk if not all the adds on me. and they are dropping fast with ICy Terrain/conduit of Ice, Avalance of steel, or what ever other AOE's are going off. As far as the ranged guys who wont run in, Supremacy of Steel normally burns them down enough that a CW can singel target them fast enough if need be. Or we clean them up last.

    If you are on mindflayer shard and want to run something with me to see how it works, give me a yell @desjardinii. Im normally on evenings after 8PM EST.
  • bodidharmabodidharma Member Posts: 27 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Whut do u suggest for race and base roll...i have a half orc with 18str 16cons base roll, should i remake a dwarf with higher cons ?
  • desjardiniidesjardinii Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 193 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    bodidharma wrote: »
    Whut do u suggest for race and base roll...i have a half orc with 18str 16cons base roll, should i remake a dwarf with higher cons ?

    I was going to hop on test tonight to see what the difference would be with the different starting stats, but it is being patched. However you are trading HP for higher damage and a stronger guard meter. I would think you would be fine, since you can always slot for HP with stones. It would be nice if the guard meter had a quantifiable number to see what the increases actually are. When test comes back up tomorrow I will see what I can sort out.
  • grimslawgrimslaw Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 43
    edited July 2013
    So compared to http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?185651-Venore-s-Debuff-Turtle-Tanking-Guide-(GF), the author said his build wasn't viable anymore. Do you feel yours is even through castle never? Yours seems alike in some regards, but you seem to concentrate on get you dmg and threat through indirect contact with mobs through kv and SOS daily. Is this one of the main differences / advantages between your build and other tanky like builds? Thanks for the info so far, I wish work was allowing time to do more than theorycraft but got to work to play. Sorry for any typos bad spelling or grammar the forum software doesn't jive to well with my phone.
  • bodidharmabodidharma Member Posts: 27 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Have u done CN and epic dread vault with this build?
  • desjardiniidesjardinii Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 193 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    grimslaw wrote: »
    So compared to http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?185651-Venore-s-Debuff-Turtle-Tanking-Guide-(GF), the author said his build wasn't viable anymore. Do you feel yours is even through castle never? Yours seems alike in some regards, but you seem to concentrate on get you dmg and threat through indirect contact with mobs through kv and SOS daily. Is this one of the main differences / advantages between your build and other tanky like builds? Thanks for the info so far, I wish work was allowing time to do more than theorycraft but got to work to play. Sorry for any typos bad spelling or grammar the forum software doesn't jive to well with my phone.

    So far I have only done the first couple of bosses in CN. It worked fine in there for as far as I got. I have been plaged with teh lag monster lately and has made alot of dungeon runs impossible to complete. But that's a different headache. I think the major differences in Venores build and mine is mainly in concept and play style. This game has alot of adds. I found it tough to effectively gather them up, unless I wanted to run all over, grab a large group while popping pots till my CW/ DPS crew could get them burned down. It was not until CN that it started being a problem, since the trash in there hits really hard on the squishy classes. That's when I started to look at alternatives to the current build I was running.

    I think the main difference between this build and others, is how it deals and interacts with mobs to generate aggro. Venore's used more direct hitting skills and tab taunting to grab mobs and generate threat. It also used front line surge to knock mobs back, which helps build threat and at the same time keep mobs off of you. He also used into the fray to help build AP for yourself and party to have a constant supply of dailies available.

    Where as this build uses knights valor to grab aggro on adds which I think is a more practical and immediate response to a wave of add spawns. Say you get a new group of adds that gets pulled for what ever reason, or a new wave of adds on a boss fight. While you are fighting the boss or the current group, how long does it take to tab target the new mobs to get them to you? You have to maintain both close in and far off 360 degree situational awareness in some fights. Not to say it can not be done, but it can be tough. With knights valor, all I have to do is see those adds spawn or come into range, pop knights valor, and as soon as they attack a party member, I am grabbing aggro on them. Its an 1 click skill to grab aggro over the next 10 seconds for any mobs that attack party members. That lets me continue to debuff adds and the boss. Also KN gives me a 5% boost to my damage mitigation. which helps to deal with any incoming damage.

    I personally believe that is the strong point of the build. At its core fundamentals, it is designed to tank the fights by intercepting damage to the party. Which is why I called it the interceptor build as compared to just a basic protector type setup like venores.

    Added: The biggest issue I have with the build is certain AOE attacks. I can take straight damage attacks no problem without having to move from the red. However any that will throw me in the air, resulting in my going prone can be a killer to me and my party, since during that time I cant have my shield up blocking. Basically know when to stand and when to move, although I don't have to move around as often.
  • desjardiniidesjardinii Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 193 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    bodidharma wrote: »
    Have u done CN and epic dread vault with this build?

    I have done the first couple bosses in CN and its worked out fine. That is what I used as a basis for the build while I tweaked it on the preview shard. I have not had the time to do a full CN run mainly because I got plagued by the lag monster after the last patch. It has made a lot of dungeons troublesome because of the heavy reliance of the shield block, which can be a killer if lag is delaying you from putting it up. As far as dread vault, I have no desire to run it anymore until they fix the campfires.
  • grimslawgrimslaw Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 43
    edited July 2013
    Thanks for the info des. DId you see the post about fios having lag issues about the game? JUst thought i through it out there since a lot of people seem to be having the lag issue.
  • desjardiniidesjardinii Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 193 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    grimslaw wrote: »
    Thanks for the info des. DId you see the post about fios having lag issues about the game? JUst thought i through it out there since a lot of people seem to be having the lag issue.

    Yeah Im running Fios. Ive been good for the longest time, and now Ive got issues. It is **** frustrating lol.
  • alfofonzzoalfofonzzo Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Glad to see someone else sees the value of KV. I'm currently running a conq. spec but I'm very interested in trying this out. Thing is I just completed my stalwart set recently and I feel bad about swapping it out. My question is do you guys think stalwart would sync well with this build? Since you could easily keep that buff up all the time through the sheer amount of hits you take from KV, assuming the buff procs with blocks as well.
  • desjardiniidesjardinii Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 193 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    alfofonzzo wrote: »
    Glad to see someone else sees the value of KV. I'm currently running a conq. spec but I'm very interested in trying this out. Thing is I just completed my stalwart set recently and I feel bad about swapping it out. My question is do you guys think stalwart would sync well with this build? Since you could easily keep that buff up all the time through the sheer amount of hits you take from KV, assuming the buff procs with blocks as well.

    The stalwart set should work well also as a T1 set. Not sure of actual numbers, as I am out of game atm, but i know it has defense and deflection on it, and you get +400 defense for the 2 piece set. Just keep in mind that you have no power in the gear itself, so without the conqueror spec you will lose alot of the base to work with. If I went with stalwart, I would make sure I ran with a decent weapon and stack some base power to have enough oomph on the initial pull to grab aggro. But also a set of grand regent is a fraction of the cost of stalwarts. I think you can get the entire set for less than the stalwart helm on the AH.
  • porallporall Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    I'm a long time gamer and usually play the tank role. I also like this strategy for tanks in this game, more of an interceptor/mitigator of dmg for the whole party. Older MMO use the mechanics of face-tanking, but here dps engages most bosses and the meatshield helps with the 1000 adds.

    My passives, wills, encounters and general strategy is the similar as yours. One exception, as another has noted, is to use Fray always and swap out enforced threat. I never use enforced threat and KV with enhanced mark seems to get the job done. Enforced threat seems like overkill.

    But I like the tactician paragon powers. My case is this: with all the marking done with threatening rush, it's great knowing the mobs are doing 10% less dmg to the other group members. Pin cushion activates on each mob you rush, so 10% more dmg to them for 3 sec (plus if you like frontline surge all mobs are affected). While activating all your encounters or moving positions and not blocking, you gain AP when hit, which happens a lot with KV. While using Fray the group dishes out more dmg. And while you refresh your shield with Tide of Iron, reduce the physical dmg done by that mob. The interceptor strat has great synergy with tactician feats.

    I've been able to tank all the T1/T2 pretty easily so far, complete PuG runs every night with the occasional wipe. And I'm almost always double the amount of dmg taken compared to the 2nd group member and 2nd on the healing list. Yes I'm near the bottom in kills and dmg done. But that's what the dps is working on. Tactician build really buffs up the group compared to the other sets and reduces group damage. Next challenge is DD and CN. Still working on gear as GS is only 8700. Has anyone tried tactician into the last couple of dungeons? The guides only mention conquer or protector builds.
Sign In or Register to comment.