Making "Exclusive Cash-only Races" Is Unacceptable

ausdoerrt

The biggest benefit of NW is/was that the game is fully F2P, with promises from developers to never charge for content. Core game content includes classes, races and quests.

Drow was borderline acceptable because it was basically an "early access" thing. Moon Elves continue down the slippery slope - worse yet, you can't buy them separately, only as part of an expensive pack full of fluff.

I now fully expect the new classes and paragon paths to follow the same marketing model. If/when that happens, Cryptic will present themselves as a company with zero integrity and no regard for their supporters.


I am disappointed, I thought you were better than this.

zephryl1

I doubt the Classes and Paragon Paths will be cash-only, though at this point I wouldn't be surprised if you could pay to get them early...

But yeah, charging for a Race is just stupid. I wouldn't mind if it was Early Access, or even if it was added to the Zen Store (Since people could unlock it eventually with AD) but having it locked away in an exclusive (And expensive) pack is just <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.

I refuse to pay 60 dollars for a race.

shiaika

I didn't mind an "exclusive" Menzoberranzan Renegade because non-Hero players would get for free another drow version later (let's see if 60 days later or not). Moon Elves only for cash-pack would be a clear slap in the face. (imho, just in case I need to add that)

alantia

ausdoerrt wrote: »

The biggest benefit of NW is/was that the game is fully F2P, with promises from developers to never charge for content. Core game content includes classes, races and quests.

Drow was borderline acceptable because it was basically an "early access" thing. Moon Elves continue down the slippery slope - worse yet, you can't buy them separately, only as part of an expensive pack full of fluff.

I now fully expect the new classes and paragon paths to follow the same marketing model. If/when that happens, Cryptic will present themselves as a company with zero integrity and no regard for their supporters.


I am disappointed, I thought you were better than this.

I think that it's not up to you to say what is core content. How do you expect them to make money? Can you please point me to the statement that was made saying they wouldn't charge for core content? If you can't afford the pack just say so, I do agree its a bit steep on price. But hey in a p2p game when you buy an expansion you would be paying 59.95 or so anyway and still be paying a subscription monthly! So if you look at it realistically its less money.

utania

In a paid pack to start with and then available with zen would be okish with me, at least then if I really wanted it I could trade diamonds for zen.

And I've never paid $60 dollars for an expansion in a p2p game

bluedarky

The thing about the Mezo Drow and the Moon Elf is that they are just different skins of other races, F2P players won't get the Mezo Drow or the Moon Elf, but we will get Drow and Sun Elf which will be similar to them.

savagedeacon

bluedarky wrote: »

The thing about the Mezo Drow and the Moon Elf is that they are just different skins of other races, F2P players won't get the Mezo Drow or the Moon Elf, but we will get Drow and Sun Elf which will be similar to them.

exactly and all three of them are just variations of the basic elf. They could have simply added other skins to that race, that is one of the selectable for anyone since the beta, and you could have had all four of them for the price of one , that is free .
A little aside:we are all free to play players here, since there is not a subscriction model, the only difference is that some us fork out some money to buy things , others would like get them for free

skalt112

Isn't the difference just cosmetic?

baronvonboom

I think its completely acceptable, you already have an 'Elf' race that you can customise as much as you want regarding looks etc and RP it however you feel..

To say its unfair you don't get more well.. Augustus we all know what happened to you eh..

kiralyn

The issue is.... am I misremembering, or didn't they say way back when, that classes & races would be free?

(I may be mistaken, or maybe it's just info that slightly changed as people repeated it. /shrug)

zephryl1

skalt112 wrote: »

Isn't the difference just cosmetic?

At this stage we literally have no idea.

A lot of people's issue is with the lore though. Historically the Moon Elf was the race you played as whenever you picked "Elf" in a game, wheras the "Sun Elf" that everyone gets free were a more reclusive sort. A lot of people are pissed off that it's the Moon and not Sun that you have to pay for.

skalt112

zephryl1 wrote: »

At this stage we literally have no idea.

A lot of people's issue is with the lore though. Historically the Moon Elf was the race you played as whenever you picked "Elf" in a game, wheras the "Sun Elf" that everyone gets free were a more reclusive sort. A lot of people are pissed off that it's the Moon and not Sun that you have to pay for.

I'll be the first one to admit that I have no clue as to how the human mind works, but this just seems petty to me.

zephryl1

skalt112 wrote: »

I'll be the first one to admit that I have no clue as to how the human mind works, but this just seems petty to me.

Depends why you're playing. If you came here because it looked like a fun MMO, you won't really care.
If you came here because you're a DnD/Forgotten Realms fan, then it's basically like cryptic slapping you in the face.

kiyusuke

skalt112 wrote: »

Isn't the difference just cosmetic?

This so much This.

Why the hell are you cryingg over another Wood elf makeover with diffferent passives that benefit a mage style? REALY?!

jesus ppl will cry about anything they cant put their greedy hands on

hirosakisan

according to the lore moon elves should be an int/wisdom race while sun elves should be a dex/con race, both different from normal elves in stats

anyway this is getting out of control, in most of other games cash items are appereance only...
i.e. usually successful buisness models charge cash for nothing more than this:
- mount skin
- dyes
- dress
- summon skins
- aestethics in general (firey weapon instead of steel ones.. etc)

here just the fact that u can get AD with zen destroys the economy, not to mention p2w mounts / companions

xmachina

What is and is not acceptable is really up to PWE/Cryptic. As an example a major gaming company released the last survivor of an extinct alien race as part of their collector's edition. This is no different, either fork over the money like I did then, or decide that the things in the pack are not nearly worth it and pass.

I'm sure we "may" have another thread like this in the future regarding classes, which would be... but, they would not be the first and their fangirl's (both M/F) would defend them!

tang56

xmachina wrote: »

What is and is not acceptable is really up to PWE/Cryptic. As an example a major gaming company released the last survivor of an extinct alien race as part of their collector's edition. This is no different, either fork over the money like I did then, or decide that the things in the pack are not nearly worth it and pass.

I'm sure we "may" have another thread like this in the future regarding classes, which would be... but, they would not be the first and their fangirl's (both M/F) would defend them!

Oh nvm. Forum cut my post.

kiralyn

xmachina wrote: »

As an example a major gaming company released the last survivor of an extinct alien race as part of their collector's edition. This is no different, either fork over the money like I did then, or decide that the things in the pack are not nearly worth it and pass.

Are you talking about Jaavik / Mass Effect 3? If so..... yeah, and didn't forum folks moan about that whole "Day 1 DLC" thing for months anyway? (Also, since it was available outside the collector edition, it's not really comparable - one of the issues here is having to get the whole $60 bundle even if the only part you care about is the race. Or the costume. Or whatever.)

filc

If someone thinks it's expensive or don't want to pay money for it, don't buy it

*facepalm*

cribstaxxx

Lol

Forum poster: "This is unacceptable because I don't want to have to pay for it!"
Normal person: "Why?"
Forum poster: "It's so overpriced, everything in zen shop is overpriced, omg cash grab! Greedy PWE!!!"
normal person: "So they didn't provide you with a completely free game including the ability to trade in game currency for zen so you can buy pretty much everything for no money?"
Forum poster: "Hell no I'm not putting in time to avoid paying for things! This game is so P2W anyway!"
Normal person: "Um isn't that the definition of F2P?"
Forum poster: "But I want all these new items and am certainly not paying $60 for them, are you crazy?!"
Normal person: "This game is F2P, that's the only way Cryptic gets paid and can continue paying their employees and releasing new content, not to mention the hundreds of thousands they've spent to provide you with a free game"
Forum poster: "I don't care, I want moon elves. Sun elves, new content, and everything else module 1 gives me for free is irrelevant!"
Normal person: "Looks like it's time to stop browsing the forums on the job, can't reason with anyone..."
Forum poster: "What's a job?"

savagedeacon

kiralyn wrote: »

The issue is.... am I misremembering, or didn't they say way back when, that classes & races would be free?

(I may be mistaken, or maybe it's just info that slightly changed as people repeated it. /shrug)

Yes but the point is : first they sell it and afterwards they give it for free to those that didn't bought it. I.E. it will be free when none will buy it any longer

knightfalz

ausdoerrt wrote: »

The biggest benefit of NW is/was that the game is fully F2P, with promises from developers to never charge for content. Core game content includes classes, races and quests.

Drow was borderline acceptable because it was basically an "early access" thing. Moon Elves continue down the slippery slope - worse yet, you can't buy them separately, only as part of an expensive pack full of fluff.

I now fully expect the new classes and paragon paths to follow the same marketing model. If/when that happens, Cryptic will present themselves as a company with zero integrity and no regard for their supporters.


I am disappointed, I thought you were better than this.

They didn't promise all races would be available with no cost. Therefore, it is acceptable.

runebane

kiralyn wrote: »

The issue is.... am I misremembering, or didn't they say way back when, that classes & races would be free?

(I may be mistaken, or maybe it's just info that slightly changed as people repeated it. /shrug)

Only thing I've seen referenced that way was the classes.

hirosakisan

cribstaxxx wrote: »

Normal person: "This game is F2P, that's the only way Cryptic gets paid and can continue paying their employees and releasing new content, not to mention the hundreds of thousands they've spent to provide you with a free game"

worst arguement ever, all succesful F2P games offer only fashion items for cash and that's why they're still around since ages and never went bankrupt because ppl buy cosmethics
rule n 1: never affect gameplay
rule n 2: there's no rule 2

inb4 improved races with double bonus ability scores and passives

knightfalz

kiralyn wrote: »

The issue is.... am I misremembering, or didn't they say way back when, that classes & races would be free?

(I may be mistaken, or maybe it's just info that slightly changed as people repeated it. /shrug)

You are mistaken. Check the first post of the link below.

http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?404871-You-guys-are-purposefully-being-quiet-about-the-new-class-and-paragon-paths-because/page10

rapticor

It's perfectly acceptable. They never said all classes would be free.

What isn't acceptable is the entitled attitude a lot of people have with wanting every single thing for free. The game has to make a profit or it shuts down. Free to play or not.

neyph69

alantia wrote: »

I think that it's not up to you to say what is core content. How do you expect them to make money? Can you please point me to the statement that was made saying they wouldn't charge for core content? If you can't afford the pack just say so, I do agree its a bit steep on price. But hey in a p2p game when you buy an expansion you would be paying 59.95 or so anyway and still be paying a subscription monthly! So if you look at it realistically its less money.

Your trying to compare a "pack" which comes with mostly in game items and 1 exclusive race to an entire expansion pack for a real MMO. An expansion pack in a real MMO cost the same(most of the time less) as the pack and comes with ACTUAL content. Im not talkin about just a mount and companion i mean an actual entire new part of the world to explore, ussualy a new race or 2 and sometimes a new class. To compare this pack to an actual expansion is innaccurate.

kasyee

You now... DDO has a shop too - but I never felt its unfair.
In NWO it feels unfair.

DDO charges most of money ffrom
- xp buffs/faster leveling stuff
- comestic armors
- cosmetic pets
- 2 or so races and 2 or more classes.

While is is similiar to what is in NWO ->
ddo pet - 150-300 tp points which is = less than 5$.
ddo armor kits - so cosmetics = 500-900 TP which is around 5-9$.
ddo races - 900 tp = around 9$.
+ there are 20% and 50% sales pretty often.

In NWO:
pet/companions - 2000-3000 zen which is 20-30$ it seems
new race only sellable in bundle which is 59$

I have really nothing against paying for cool cosmetic stuff.
But in NWO some of them gives more power - which shouldnt be happening (companions and mounts) and cost like 300% more than in other games.
Come on...

I bet much more ppl would buy those stuff if its cost was lower.
Id personally pay 5$ for moon elves themselves. But 59$? Lol?

I understand they have to earn, but make prices reasonable.

arcmoon99

They do have to make money, but I REALLY, REALLY like that zen store idea. That way people could sell the race and people who can't afford it in real cash can earn it. That way cryptic gets paid and everyone is happy.

knightfalz

neyph69 wrote: »

Your trying to compare a "pack" which comes with mostly in game items and 1 exclusive race to an entire expansion pack for a real MMO. An expansion pack in a real MMO cost the same(most of the time less) as the pack and comes with ACTUAL content. Im not talkin about just a mount and companion i mean an actual entire new part of the world to explore, ussualy a new race or 2 and sometimes a new class. To compare this pack to an actual expansion is innaccurate.

You are getting a new part of the game world to explore, along with new systems to enjoy, for free, not the price many others charge. They are offering complimenting extras for those that wish that at a cost. They do have to make some money somewhere.

zahinder

ausdoerrt wrote: »

I am disappointed, I thought you were better than this.

Based on what, exactly?


As for classes/races -- yeah, everything is in flux. They made no promises at all.
Even the linked interview, they said they didn't PLAN on making classes monetized. Which isn't a promise, it only means that, at that point, they weren't making plans.

Personally, so long as the core of the game allows a fairly diverse set of options that you can pursue to endgame with $0 expenditures, it's a proper f2p game. And it is.

It is entirely reasonable to make purchasable options. I personally think the way they've set up the packages is kind of stupid. As others have remarked, if you are the kind of person who is willing to blow money on the game, chances are good you've already bought a zen mount, which means the unicorn feels like a bit of a waste.

I almost wish they had made mounts about 1/4 as expensive but BoE single items.