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The real fix to Spawn Camping.. is to fix Spawn Sitting..
abombination247
Member Posts: 1,279 Bounty Hunter
That's right recently I been doing a lot of matches and the other team fails to get 100 pts and I have come across the real issue here. It's not Spawn Camping. It's Spawn Sitting. Why are you aloud to sit there in a match. When the match starts you should have 15 seconds to leave the Spawn area before you get pushed out!! That's right the gates drop down and it should push you out into the fight only to return apon death. Then you should have a cushion of 15 secs to gather yourself before you are forced to engage in combat again. The real problem here is the spawn sitting. If you don't want to fight leave. There would be no camping if everyone didn't sit. So simple huge fix here just have players pushed out of the camp site ever 15 seconds to wage battle in the fast paced Domination and there will be NO spawn camping in this game ever again I promise.
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1) Fix Spawn SITTING
2) Tie players to the match so if they leave before its finished, they cant Q up for anything again until the match is over... ANYTHING meaning even a PVE group...
Either that or take away glory if you leave early.. Which honestly wont be a huge factor since glory is worthless...
And instead of giving "points" just give straight up glory for stuff....
Get a kill? +10 glory. glory IS the points... Cap a node? Get 30 glory... Assist? Get 5 glory... Then give a small bonus for winning the match but MOST of glory is gained via what YOU actually do in the game..
So if you had 8 caps, 10 kills, and 18 assists... Thats 430 glory... And if you win. Maybe another 100? So 530 glory...
If you have 0 kills, 2 caps, and 5 assists (a bot?) Youd get 85 glory and NO points for losing? Well... bots gonna no be botting pvp real fast...
If you give incentive for doing things... even losing teams will still try to get caps cause you get glory for it no matter what your team does...
DC healing is easy... As long as a HoT is up on a character, you get 1/2 of any glory they earn (minus caps) so they kill? you get 5 glory instead of 10... You could ALSO give them credit for anything they do say 3 seconds after your heal drops, so DCs get rewarded for healing...
Leaving should be either a penalty of -glory (nif you have non you CANT leave) OR tie them to the match anyways and they cant re-Q until the match is over...
THEN,
create a match making system that gives you a "ranking" of the average of your last 10 games played... It averages your glory earned (not through bonuses like PVP hour) and then matches you against similar players...
A guy who got 100 glory ranking wont match up against a guy whose 500 glory rating...
I personally would wait another 1-2 min for a fair/more balanced pvp match then a quick win... I dont need glory...
ALSO, with these changes... Put T3 PVP weapons in for MASSIVE glory and remove the 25k glory cap... Weapons should "compare" to T3 pvp weapons, but be attainable for like 100k glory... Thats alot of pvp farming...
Before flaming, think of the hours it takes to get that glory WITH PROPOSED CHANGES and compare that to a CN run... Stats will obviously be different but similar...
People in this situation will often decide to take the time they are waiting for other team to win, to get up from the PC and do something productive (use the B-room, throw a load of laundry in the dryer, ect.). All forcing the avatars out of the spawn point would accomplish, is giving the winning team free Glory. It wouldn’t be Glory earned for a good reason either. It would just be rewarding winning team member for being lucky enough to get queued with people who aren't rage-quitters.
Don't get me wrong: I hate being on the other side to. Spawn campers are just "camping" because there is nothing else for them to do. The situation is screwed up and boring for both sides. This is really something Cryptic needs to fix. Replacing team members who quit mid-game would be a start...
I agree but... still you should be forced out the gate after 10-15 seconds. Its not a rest area. If you are 1 of only 2 left then your option is to leave or continue to earn some glory via what was mentioned.
I agree with a lot here. If I go into a match have 10 kills I should get 100 glory for it if I drop. it should be earned on a as you accomplish it basis not tally up on some silly broken manner at the end. So hopefully we can get that to change.
#2 is a great idea in principle, but I can't see cryptic getting it done without horrible bugs and the forums being filled with threads saying that they can't queue for anything ever since they d/ced from a PvP game.
Well lets say you do drop from the match how long are you waiting really. 10 mins. for the penalty time till that match finishes. Just browse the AH do some professions and you are back in playing again.
The other answer is to have a start area on the map, so you are automatically in combat when you come back to life.
The key in the start area.. is the word START. You start the match there and 10sec latter if you haven't moved you are thrown out the gate. After death you return to the start area but you have 10 sec to gather yourself before you are thrown out into action again. This is how it should function why there is a area in a PvP match where someone can't get killed is kinda silly. I don't like spawn camping. Its just spawn sitting is worse and is the real problem.
People usually sit in the spawn because they've stopped engaging in the match. Usually this is because it's so one-sided that they literally can do nothing except die. The only difference between sitting in the spawn and "moving out of the spawn and instantly dying" is that the latter requires actual keypresses, and the former is vastly less humiliating.
Note, even if it were impossible to kill people in the spawn, you can still effectively spawncamp by thronging the area immediately outside the spawn, so as soon as players emerge: bam, dead. Back 2 spawn l2p lol
Now an ideal fix would be to simply make matches more balanced, so you don't get full T2 premades up against a pug made of freshly dinged 60s in blues. But even then, there are a number of fairly simple fixes they could implement to improve matters. An easy idea would be to just have multiple exits from the spawn. You can't camp the exit with all 5 dudes if there are two or more exits: this would give the other team a chance to reconvene in the spawn and either ride out together, or take multiple exits so at least some of them get through. Then the other team has to backtrack to stop those guys backcapping, and the game returns to actual fighting and capping, not murderfactory roflstomping.
"I can't see cryptic getting it done without horrible bugs"
Basically I don't trust Cryptic to get it coded properly and not accidentally ban people from every single queue for an entire fortnight.
This reminds me of the some of the spawn points in Planetsid 2. Multiple exits allows for even a understrength side to be a little competitive.
I would say it should kick you out of the match and replace you. If it has no one to immediately replace you, then the group with 4 should receive a +15% damage/healing buff per missing person until the match is equal again (Example: 2 people missing +30% damage/healing). Pushing someone out to be farmed doesn't actually solve anything...if I afk and die...i'm still afk. All your suggesting is the team with 5 actives gets even more glory then they would have just beating up the team with 3 actives because now they can farm the afk's too.
What I have found is more fun when the opposing team has a few afk's...duel for nodes. If they have 3 people, tell them that you will only defend middle node with 3 people...winner gets middle. (Outnumbered team gets 3rd node, you get 1st) Then swap 2 of yours out win or lose and do it again. This way there is still fighting, EVERYONE still gets points even if they are out numbered and they get to have some fun. Some groups I've been in have been unwilling to do this, but most are. It keeps people happy, it's when you repeatedly bash 3 peoples heads in with your group of 5 in a fiendish manner that the actives don't want to leave spawn anymore. Forcing them into getting their heads bashed in as 3 vs your 5 for 15 mins isn't fun and will just cause people to stop joining pvp.
Well I do understand your thoughts but I think this is the important one. When a bunch of gladiators get into a arena and then they realize they can't win. Well in old times there was no time out or a safe zone they just got ate by the lions. When you click que for a PvP DOMINATION match you agree to fight in a fast paced manner that has a chance to not go your way. If when you show up on the battle field you have a change of heart you shouldn't be protected by a safe zone there should be no safe zone. You have a option of leaving and PvP domination might not be for you. Spawn sitting is the real issue and when in a Arena there should be no zone where you are safe you agreed to fight at the beginning and well there is no turning back now. Its simple you either fight or you die. That's where the domination part comes in. Having it so where all are kicked out of the spawn area will only make PvP better stop some afkers and have more rewards for que up for a PvP match.
Your last idea is intriguing about exits and I do like that but we need larger maps and 10v10. 5v5 just isn't where it is at.
Its about winning? Thought I joined the match to get kills in a Domination fashion. If there is no fighting then no one wins. If there is fighting then no one losses.
You want five people to voluntarily let themselves get kerbstomped with zero chance to do anything about it so that you can enjoy yourself with your zero-challenge murderfest?
If you play for the actual...hey, I dunno, game or something, then letting the other players out of their spawn so they can actually play...might be the decent thing to do? If you just want to roflstomp nubs then you have much deeper fundamental problems than spawncamping/sitting.
Generally speaking, people don't sit in the spawn until they're already in a state where leaving results in instant murder, because the other team is waiting outside...this is essentially spawncamping in all but name already. You can hardly blame them for being reluctant to just jump into the murderfactory. It's zero benefit for them (and is quite demeaning), minor amusement for the opponents. OH GOD WHAT A DEAL.
As for your gladiator example...what? How is "a game" anything even slightly like "an actual 'to the death' contest"?
Plus loads of gladiators were slaves and had no choice about the matter. AND they rarely fought to the death anyway, coz training up new gladiators is expensive.
Hmmm you misinterpret it. I didn't say feed them to me and they are aloud to move at there own will out of the spawn area. Just after 15secs of being in there if they don't come out then they get catapulted out maybe catapult them to a random spot on the map I don't care. When you join the fight you have to fight. Don't agree to fight then be like nah ill just sit here and watch this is the real problem. in the word Domination I don't see stairing at someone spawn camp as what is supposed to happen. Someone in every match should get dominated a team a player whatever. Spawn sitting is a real offense and I find it abusive and should be reported.
Get rid of spawn sitting and there will be no spawn camping!!! /fixed
Yeah because the customer support system isn't overloaded enough already.
Make it so the other team can't get to spawn points and there will be no spawn camping!!! /fixed
You forgot: Throw a heal? 5000 glory.
That makes no sense. If you sit in the spawn area then its only logical to try and get in there to kill. When I am faced with the enemy its my goal to kill them and they shouldn't be sitting around in some safe area. What should I do play cards instead? Make it so there is PvP and have no spawn sitting is the real solution to camping. If I don't kill someone after about 2mins I leave the match even if I am winning because I rather be in a match where there is at least a opponent. Spawn sitting is the big issue and needs to be fixed.
2 minutes may not be long enough... I get what your saying and hence why I made a thread about PVP fixing and the mechanics...
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?405071-PVP-Suggestions-To-the-Devs-if-you-want-to-fix-PVP
I think these changes will affect this issue alot... Before flaming about what I say read it.
Since players will lose glory if they lose a match and lose DOUBLE if they leave early. There is HUGE incentive to stay to try and earn some glory for yourself...
Also the matchmaking system proposed is fairly easy to do and helps eliminate drastically stronger opponent matches where its an easy roll...
Domination is not implemented well in Neverwinter. Point capping takes too long and the maps are badly designed.
I know it's not Unreal or Quake, but as it stands it's just a killfest. Now, KillFest PvP would be fine, but I don't understand why they bother pretending it's Domination.
Whatever it is, quitters ruin it. d/cs are rare - see how often they happen in a skirmish or a dungeon compared to the first 60s of a PvP. Personally I'd prevent them from travelling, joining a dungeon, skirmish or other pvp until the game they left completed.
By your logic, its the victim's fault. You are the rapist that says, "she was asking for it" at trial, basically.
Camping happens for two reasons: the camped team was either out manned or outgunned.
This post makes perfect sense. Your attempt to make a analogy out of a terrible crime makes no sense. Camping happens for many reason first players never leave the camp site. Or don't move from campsite in first 1-2mins. Then players that were outmanned while someone was sitting says ohh screw this and leaves. Then whats left is more sitting. Well once you que for the match you agree for PvP domination and there should be no permanent safe zone that you don't have to leave from that make no sense at all. Me and 4 friends can join a match never leave camp and hang out and talk and that is a crime. The other team doesn't get rewards and has no chance to fight us. Its a game mechanic that is abused. Which is why the penalty for staying is always greater then leaving. That's why we leave. Friends and I have now left serveral matches where the other team gave up because we didn't feel like waiting for the match to end. Spawn sitters ruined it. They need to be thrown out of there camp after 10 secs so there is better PvP and will fix spawn camping.
If the other team is outgunned or outmanned guess what face the music and either get stomped or quit! but staying in camp is not a option and is abuse.
Not saying perfect, but it could help a bit with the Spawn Sitting because they could just concede and save everyone's time. Of course you'd need to work out points gained/etc. It's still an interesting idea...
well, bots aren't leveling up in pvp for glory, its for experience. glory is only a side affect that you get little of. giving a bot 85 glory in lowbie levels, is more than they are getting anyway, for a win or loss.
Secondly, because of how they are programmed, they don't get kills, but they get caps, and get tons of assists. you are just feeding them more than what they are getting.
Also, go figure. I am in a match with four bots, and if I leave, I get a penalty for not wanting to be in a party of four bots + me. are you joking?
and no, making a 'no spawn sitting' does not fix spawn camping at all. What happens, is you res, and you are dead immediately because 5 people are sitting on your campfire, ready to kill you as soon as you res. they have controls and damage. You have sat there for about 1 second before you are dead (unless really tough, then you last through a control or two). they arealso in your fire so are healing by the way no matter what damage you deal. So considering you sat for 1 second at your fire and safe area, that fixes spawn camping how?
use your head man.
Also there is no reason to stay in a party ina pug group, when the pug group that is supposed to be on your team, is helping the enemy. What incentive is there to stay in this? Should there be a penalty for leaving a match, when your own party members cant figure out what nodes are for?
and if you speak of the gauntlgrym spawn campers.. yes.. 10 people at your fire killing everyone that resses at once (considering the differing respawn times) can and will constantly kill an entire group of 20 people, because it ISNT 20 people at once. its maybe 2 or 3 at a time spawning at each second, and it takes about a second for a group of 10 to kill3 people.
I am going to be very mean to you. first, you are a liar. The reason spawn sitting happens, is one team got ran over so badly that they were pushed away from mid, away from back, and backed all the way to their spawn point. In the event that happens, the match is already over. You are now camping just outside their spawn point.
You don't want pvp, you just want to be a freakin bully. Considering spawn times are 3 to 15 seconds, you want them pushed out 1 at a time after 10 seconds to be slaughtered, and you think that is pvp. Get your freakin head out of your freakin *** you wasted piece of ****.
If you are on dragon server, I give a challenge to you. My char name is Teddy Bear. Send me a mail or post on here, we will get it set up that we are in a same match. and have each side agree that its a 1v1 vs me and you. And after I kill you repeatedly and endlessly, we can talk about it being pvp or not. Make your choice.
You weren't mean lol and Teddy bear I have already killed you. Lets talk about solutions because you seem to not have mentioned any to the problem which is Spawn Sitting. Maybe since a implement of being kicked out every 10 secs then Rez timers will be faster to compensate. A lot of time a team is back down because they have players that don't come out at the beginning or just play bad and all run to one base and 2 mins latter they are destroyed. So after they get destroyed after 2mins the match isn't over what next? They shouldn't have the option to ruin the match by sitting in the spawn area it makes no sense. Who cares if they got run over the fact is they agreed to fight and until the match is over they should have to
A- fight
B- surrender so the match is ended.
Its really that simple. If you don't see it that way that is fine. Everyone has a opinion which is fine I find it funny though that you attempted to be mean to me because that is amusement in itself because I take offense to nothing in a game.