yeah. the twinkies are back. The employees mostly arent. also it'll probably fold once again once people stop buying twinkies out of HAMSTER nostalgia's sake in about a month.
Guess I have to stock up on them for my bomb shelter.
neither does your opinion that they magically deserve money simply for existing.
I never made such a ridiculous claim. No company makes money by the virtue of existence alone. I'm sure we can elevate the discussion above this kind of nonsense.
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nick1sternMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 330Bounty Hunter
the analogy was meant as 'Just because I make a defective product with my own blood, sweat, and tears doesnt necessarily entitle me to any money, especially when its not a project I was under any contract to get paid for"
What...You think they were not under contract and did not expect to make money.
If you built the barn for yourself to play in then no you do not get paid.
Clearly that was not the case here.
Your analogy is flawed on the very face.
What...You think they were not under contract and did not expect to make money.
If you built the barn for yourself to play in then no you do not get paid.
Clearly that was not the case here.
Your analogy is flawed on the very face.
Howso?
did I ever enter a contract with Cryptic that I would totally give them money when NWO came out? No.
Hence the same thing as my analogy. Just because I built a product doesnt mean I necessarily get anything for it.
I dont owe cryptic a dime for writing NWO, neither does anyone else.
Chinese prize profits over everything else more so then the most greedy of American or European businessman. Go watch the Episode of Vice where they went to China. Read some info on it. I personally feel China gets enough of our money already in ways at this point i can't really control, but i can stop them from directly benefiting from my money in a digital means. This is a Chinese based company that doesn't care about the quality of it's product or the opinions of those who utilize it, they care about profits, and if (back to my last point) enough dumb people spend money on inane shtako for HAMSTER prices, nothing will change, if not get worse.
this is wrong. Is not nothing, but is money that someone spend to buy zen...remember that exchange is player to player, so the zen that you see are buyed from someone.
Yes, you are correct, which means I was wrong. I have never used that market and had forgotten that key detail. Their rationale must then be that they don't want players to be able to purchase the pack any other way than for money applied to that specific purpose, for whatever reason.
Time to do a little research out of the basement....
Not all F2P games are chinese based.
Cryptic studios for example is American based game studio It is headquartered in Los Gatos, California.
The publisher that purchased it PWI and now owns it as a subsidiary is based in China.
I know this, PWI is who calls the shots buddy. the Chinese suits. It's theirs now. They control the cash shop and what Cryptic spends it's time doing. PWI is who profits ultimately from this game now. PWI is Chinese. PWI will not get any of my money. You post neither changes nor informs anything.
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nick1sternMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 330Bounty Hunter
did I ever enter a contract with Cryptic that I would totally give them money when NWO came out? No.
Hence the same thing as my analogy. Just because I built a product doesnt mean I necessarily get anything for it.
I dont owe cryptic a dime for writing NWO, neither does anyone else.
HUH...
Your not grasping it are you.
You did not contract with cryptic to make NW but someone did and they intended to make money.
Clearly therfore they have the right to earn money and get paid for it.
Being free to play you have the choice not to pay anything.
Others have the choice to pay if they chose to do so.
The intent was to make money the contract was to create a game that
would make money clearly they have been very succesfull at doing that.
Now you chose not to spend money fine but do not belittle those that have decided to pay for something they enjoy
and feel they should support the game. Do not belittle the efforts of the devs and the artists and all the other workers.
really it is simple if you do not like it do not pay do not play but please allow others the same options you have to make that choice with out the rude insulting hyperbole you toss around.
HUH...
Your not grasping it are you.
You did not contract with cryptic to make NW but someone did and they intended to make money.
Clearly therfore they have the right to earn money and get paid for it.
Being free to play you have the choice not to pay anything.
Others have the choice to pay if they chose to do so.
The intent was to make money the contract was to create a game that
would make money clearly they have been very succesfull at doing that.
Now you chose not to spend money fine but do not belittle those that have decided to pay for something they enjoy
and feel they should support the game. Do not belittle the efforts of the devs and the artists and all the other workers.
really it is simple if you do not like it do not pay do not play but please allow others the same options you have to make that choice with out the rude insulting hyperbole you toss around.
*shrug* I doubt the artists and devs will ever see most of that money. In fact, spoeaking as an artist, I can almost guarantee they wont.
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nick1sternMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 330Bounty Hunter
We don't owe PWI anything, they invested in a game, and if society was more intelligent and less blinded by the labels of past things they loved, they would have failed cause no one would have given them money, making their investment a bad one.
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urnusthebeatpoetMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 62Arc User
edited July 2013
The thing is this; The business model may be terrible, but the game is really fun. REALLY fun. I have a blast playing it. I would love some things (new classes mainly) that, to me, would make the game more fun. But as it is, the game is fun. And I want to support the developer (with money) for making such a fun game. But if they expect me to shell out another 60 bucks to get content that SHOULD be in the Zen Store (mounts, companions, etc are already in the Zen store, these should be too), when I already paid them money for Zen, then that's not just a bad business model, it's predatory. And I can't support that...
The thing is this; The business model may be terrible, but the game is really fun. REALLY fun. I have a blast playing it. I would love some things (new classes mainly) that, to me, would make the game more fun. But as it is, the game is fun. And I want to support the developer (with money) for making such a fun game. But if they expect me to shell out another 60 bucks to get content that SHOULD be in the Zen Store (mounts, companions, etc are already in the Zen store, these should be too), when I already paid them money for Zen, then that's not just a bad business model, it's predatory. And I can't support that...
Exclusives with expansion packs are common in the MMO industry. These expansion packs are no more predatory than any other that includes exclusives. This is more a manufactured issue than a genuine one.
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urnusthebeatpoetMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 62Arc User
Exclusives with expansion packs are common in the MMO industry. These expansion packs are no more predatory than any other that includes exclusives. This is more a manufactured issue than a genuine one.
I have to disagree somewhat. Yes, Exclusives w/ expansion packs are common in the MMO industry. Exclusives that give players an in game advantage, no matter how small or "lateral," are not very common. At least not among popular or well liked MMOs. They gave away this type of exclusives with the founders packs (aka the type that provide an advantage, however small or "lateral"). This was not okay in my book, but was made SLIGHTLY less repulsive because it was for people who wanted to support the game before it "launched." I get the idea that early adopters MIGHT have a VERY small case to get certain VERY small/"lateral" advantages. But the buck stops there.
This "expansion" isn't even a real expansion. It's additional content, a module, aka, DLC at best. And to provide people who are willing to fork over MORE dough (notice I am not asking for this **** to be free, just purchasable with Zen, and a price markup is fine with me too, aka no bundle discount) is not just bad, it's predatory.
PWE/Cryptic is saying "I know you already gave us your money. But now you should give us more, cause your old moneys no good for this new stuff." That statement, made by PWE/Cryptic even if unintentionally, say that Zen is worth less than it's stated value. It is a sub optimal currency, only useful for things that aren't the latest and the greatest. In essence, it's a currency you want to ditch, in favor of a better currency (in this case, cash). That's a very bad statement to be making about your currency that you are trying to get people to buy. And that's a very bad way to get your loyal fans, who have already given you their money, to give you more money.
EDIT: I should explain the "in-game advantages" thing. The Moon Elf, the Companions, and the armor enchant, and the stone are what I am referring to. These provide stats and/or racials and/or new abilities, etc. These things may actually be sub-par to what is already in the game. They could be better. Who knows. What we do know is that they provide actual mechanical things that currently aren't available in the combinations these items provide them. This confers a, potential, large advantage to people who buy, but more likely confers a small/lateral advantage. Hope that makes sense.
Let me ask this, Why does it matter what he has done? Honestly will it bring you closure or what?
Artists out in the wild do have to struggle to get paid, ever heard of the phrase "starving artist"?
Generally game artists though dont get paid on a commission basis though, they get steady revenue like everyone else at the company.
The point is he tried to speak with authority on Game artists.
I would like to pin him down a bit by asking for citations.
As they say the proff or lack there of is in the pudding.
This "expansion" isn't even a real expansion. It's additional content, a module, aka, DLC at best. And to provide people who are willing to fork over MORE dough (notice I am not asking for this **** to be free, just purchasable with Zen, and a price markup is fine with me too, aka no bundle discount) is not just bad, it's predatory.
They are also introducing a new campaign system, so it's more than just a new area exactly the same as all areas before it. Of course, there is no way to know how extensive this new system will be until we can play it.
There is nothing predatory about this offer. It just isn't being made in the manner that you prefer.
PWE/Cryptic is saying "I know you already gave us your money. But now you should give us more, cause your old moneys no good for this new stuff." That statement, made by PWE/Cryptic even if unintentionally, say that Zen is worth less than it's stated value. It is a sub optimal currency, only useful for things that aren't the latest and the greatest. In essence, it's a currency you want to ditch, in favor of a better currency (in this case, cash). That's a very bad statement to be making about your currency that you are trying to get people to buy. And that's a very bad way to get your loyal fans, who have already given you their money, to give you more money.
They said 'Here is some optional things you can purchase that goes along with the free expansion we are giving you. Purchase it if you like, but either way you will be able to enjoy the new content with no cost to you'.
EDIT: I should explain the "in-game advantages" thing. The Moon Elf, the Companions, and the armor enchant, and the stone are what I am referring to. These provide stats and/or racials and/or new abilities, etc. These things may actually be sub-par to what is already in the game. They could be better. Who knows. What we do know is that they provide actual mechanical things that currently aren't available in the combinations these items provide them. This confers a, potential, large advantage to people who buy, but more likely confers a small/lateral advantage. Hope that makes sense.
They do offer new things. A non-exclusive Moon Elf may be available at some time, though it hasn't been mentioned so it may not. There is nothing preventing an offer of similar things as the other items in the Zen store, that have much the same abilities as the pack items with a different skin, like a black unicorn or some other winged companion, or some other neck slot trinket. Of course, I don't know if they will do so, but they do seem to offer new mounts, companions, and other things on a regular basis.
Actually I have found this to be a very entertaining game with good graphics, a fun leveling process and decent RP guilds, I find Crafting pleasant and the auction house profitable without looking for exploits. to bad the community makes wow's community look downright compassionate.
I was very happy to hear that the new pack was going to be for 60$ and not 200$ considering 600kad at a 300ad/z exchange is about 20$ top of the line mounts 30-40$, top of the line pets 20-30$, fashion outfit 10-20$ on every char, extra slot 2.50$, Supporting a game I enjoy priceless.
Now look at some other games out there.
TSW 60$ to even play plus you have to buy perks and costumes 1 class...human 3 races American, English, Korean
Defiance 60$ to play for 2 races (neither of which are casti) and you have to buy perks and items no way to earn real money purchases in game 60$ for expansions coming with 1 race(casti)
I understand you might not like this game, Lots of other games out there,
You might not want to Pay for this game.... you don't have to. That is the beauty
This game is free to play, No-one quoted you the prices on winning.
if you don't think they should make a profit fine . I hope they do make a profit.
the more items out there to buy the less people will be wearing MY dress!
The reason you can't use Zen is because you can earn AD in the game, and the AD can be exchanged for Zen. This would allow players with enough Zen purchased with AD to buy the update for nothing.
Selling things for nothing doesn't earn the company revenue.
and... Zen simply magically appears in the exchange from thin air, nobody ever pays for the Zen that FtPers bought using AD.
*eyeroll* PWE is getting $ for the Zen you buy off exchange (the one posting the Zen first, bought it) you are paying the one that bought it with AD. BUT PWE got RL$
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bioshrikeMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,729Arc User
edited July 2013
The problem is that this type of business practice kinda creates a bug in the back of any potential purchaser's head - "should I buy some Zen now, or will they put more stuff in the game that I won't be able to buy with it?"
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
and... Zen simply magically appears in the exchange from thin air, nobody ever pays for the Zen that FtPers bought using AD.
*eyeroll* PWE is getting $ for the Zen you buy off exchange (the one posting the Zen first, bought it) you are paying the one that bought it with AD. BUT PWE got RL$
This was already addressed in a post earlier, to which I responded to admitting my error.
Try to keep up, eh?
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jihancritiasMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
We don't owe PWI anything, they invested in a game, and if society was more intelligent and less blinded by the labels of past things they loved, they would have failed cause no one would have given them money, making their investment a bad one.
So, is the "Banned" title under this guys name because he got banned for speaking against PWI, or is it something you can add? Or, did he send pm's to someone, and get reported. I wonder...
Tip: Don't say a bad word against the companies. You might get banned. Truth hurts, I guess. (if the first is the case)
So, is the "Banned" title under this guys name because he got banned for speaking against PWI, or is it something you can add? Or, did he send pm's to someone, and get reported. I wonder...
Tip: Don't say a bad word against the companies. You might get banned. Truth hurts, I guess. (if the first is the case)
If you're curious, look at his posts that weren't removed for rules violations.
Criticism of a game is a vital part of its development, and given the nature of forums, a lot of it is going to be negative criticism. However, I can't see our community or the game being enhanced by someone like this:
You guys should just give up on the game, Foundry and all, and be a few post a day mboard warrior like me, advocating the destruction of all chinese based game companies.
Beyond that, we probably shouldn't discuss the actual sanctions.
The problem is that this type of business practice kinda creates a bug in the back of any potential purchaser's head - "should I buy some Zen now, or will they put more stuff in the game that I won't be able to buy with it?"
Do people generally buy zen "just in case" or do they buy it with a specific objective in mind?
Even the packs are going to have something of this issue: "Do I buy the Feywild pack, or should I wait a few months in case they introduce an even cooler mount in a different pack?"
Actually, thinking about it, most spending decisions have something of that issue.
I think the pack is priced way too high, but on the other hand, there is nothing in there I need to play the game. PWE can adjust the price so they maximize the revenues. I think they would make more money with a lower price, but it is their choice. Since I don't need it, I'm not buying it.
The downside, is if they sold it for $20, I would buy it. This would generate some excitement on my part as I looked forward to the new pet and race. I would keep playing longer, and might buy more items. As it is, I will probably drop this game soon, as I am running out of things to hold my interest.
Comments
Guess I have to stock up on them for my bomb shelter.
What...You think they were not under contract and did not expect to make money.
If you built the barn for yourself to play in then no you do not get paid.
Clearly that was not the case here.
Your analogy is flawed on the very face.
Howso?
did I ever enter a contract with Cryptic that I would totally give them money when NWO came out? No.
Hence the same thing as my analogy. Just because I built a product doesnt mean I necessarily get anything for it.
I dont owe cryptic a dime for writing NWO, neither does anyone else.
Yes, you are correct, which means I was wrong. I have never used that market and had forgotten that key detail. Their rationale must then be that they don't want players to be able to purchase the pack any other way than for money applied to that specific purpose, for whatever reason.
I know this, PWI is who calls the shots buddy. the Chinese suits. It's theirs now. They control the cash shop and what Cryptic spends it's time doing. PWI is who profits ultimately from this game now. PWI is Chinese. PWI will not get any of my money. You post neither changes nor informs anything.
HUH...
Your not grasping it are you.
You did not contract with cryptic to make NW but someone did and they intended to make money.
Clearly therfore they have the right to earn money and get paid for it.
Being free to play you have the choice not to pay anything.
Others have the choice to pay if they chose to do so.
The intent was to make money the contract was to create a game that
would make money clearly they have been very succesfull at doing that.
Now you chose not to spend money fine but do not belittle those that have decided to pay for something they enjoy
and feel they should support the game. Do not belittle the efforts of the devs and the artists and all the other workers.
really it is simple if you do not like it do not pay do not play but please allow others the same options you have to make that choice with out the rude insulting hyperbole you toss around.
*shrug* I doubt the artists and devs will ever see most of that money. In fact, spoeaking as an artist, I can almost guarantee they wont.
Yeah I bet you are.... Name a game you did art for...
I have to disagree somewhat. Yes, Exclusives w/ expansion packs are common in the MMO industry. Exclusives that give players an in game advantage, no matter how small or "lateral," are not very common. At least not among popular or well liked MMOs. They gave away this type of exclusives with the founders packs (aka the type that provide an advantage, however small or "lateral"). This was not okay in my book, but was made SLIGHTLY less repulsive because it was for people who wanted to support the game before it "launched." I get the idea that early adopters MIGHT have a VERY small case to get certain VERY small/"lateral" advantages. But the buck stops there.
This "expansion" isn't even a real expansion. It's additional content, a module, aka, DLC at best. And to provide people who are willing to fork over MORE dough (notice I am not asking for this **** to be free, just purchasable with Zen, and a price markup is fine with me too, aka no bundle discount) is not just bad, it's predatory.
PWE/Cryptic is saying "I know you already gave us your money. But now you should give us more, cause your old moneys no good for this new stuff." That statement, made by PWE/Cryptic even if unintentionally, say that Zen is worth less than it's stated value. It is a sub optimal currency, only useful for things that aren't the latest and the greatest. In essence, it's a currency you want to ditch, in favor of a better currency (in this case, cash). That's a very bad statement to be making about your currency that you are trying to get people to buy. And that's a very bad way to get your loyal fans, who have already given you their money, to give you more money.
EDIT: I should explain the "in-game advantages" thing. The Moon Elf, the Companions, and the armor enchant, and the stone are what I am referring to. These provide stats and/or racials and/or new abilities, etc. These things may actually be sub-par to what is already in the game. They could be better. Who knows. What we do know is that they provide actual mechanical things that currently aren't available in the combinations these items provide them. This confers a, potential, large advantage to people who buy, but more likely confers a small/lateral advantage. Hope that makes sense.
None. I said artist. Not game artist.
But speaking as an artist. half of our job is being horrifically underpaid for our work :P
Its part and parcel of doing a job thats a labor of love yet undervalued by half of society and anyone with a business degree.
Hmm...I think people would spend money on this game because, hold onto your hat, they actually have fun playing the game.
So name anything you have done we know of or can provide a link to.....
Let me ask this, Why does it matter what he has done? Honestly will it bring you closure or what?
Artists out in the wild do have to struggle to get paid, ever heard of the phrase "starving artist"?
Generally game artists though dont get paid on a commission basis though, they get steady revenue like everyone else at the company.
The point is he tried to speak with authority on Game artists.
I would like to pin him down a bit by asking for citations.
As they say the proff or lack there of is in the pudding.
There is nothing predatory about this offer. It just isn't being made in the manner that you prefer.
They said 'Here is some optional things you can purchase that goes along with the free expansion we are giving you. Purchase it if you like, but either way you will be able to enjoy the new content with no cost to you'.
They do offer new things. A non-exclusive Moon Elf may be available at some time, though it hasn't been mentioned so it may not. There is nothing preventing an offer of similar things as the other items in the Zen store, that have much the same abilities as the pack items with a different skin, like a black unicorn or some other winged companion, or some other neck slot trinket. Of course, I don't know if they will do so, but they do seem to offer new mounts, companions, and other things on a regular basis.
I was very happy to hear that the new pack was going to be for 60$ and not 200$ considering 600kad at a 300ad/z exchange is about 20$ top of the line mounts 30-40$, top of the line pets 20-30$, fashion outfit 10-20$ on every char, extra slot 2.50$, Supporting a game I enjoy priceless.
Now look at some other games out there.
TSW 60$ to even play plus you have to buy perks and costumes 1 class...human 3 races American, English, Korean
Defiance 60$ to play for 2 races (neither of which are casti) and you have to buy perks and items no way to earn real money purchases in game 60$ for expansions coming with 1 race(casti)
I understand you might not like this game, Lots of other games out there,
You might not want to Pay for this game.... you don't have to. That is the beauty
This game is free to play, No-one quoted you the prices on winning.
if you don't think they should make a profit fine . I hope they do make a profit.
the more items out there to buy the less people will be wearing MY dress!
and... Zen simply magically appears in the exchange from thin air, nobody ever pays for the Zen that FtPers bought using AD.
*eyeroll* PWE is getting $ for the Zen you buy off exchange (the one posting the Zen first, bought it) you are paying the one that bought it with AD. BUT PWE got RL$
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Try to keep up, eh?
So, is the "Banned" title under this guys name because he got banned for speaking against PWI, or is it something you can add? Or, did he send pm's to someone, and get reported. I wonder...
Tip: Don't say a bad word against the companies. You might get banned. Truth hurts, I guess. (if the first is the case)
This makes no sense.
Criticism of a game is a vital part of its development, and given the nature of forums, a lot of it is going to be negative criticism. However, I can't see our community or the game being enhanced by someone like this:
Beyond that, we probably shouldn't discuss the actual sanctions.
Do people generally buy zen "just in case" or do they buy it with a specific objective in mind?
Even the packs are going to have something of this issue: "Do I buy the Feywild pack, or should I wait a few months in case they introduce an even cooler mount in a different pack?"
Actually, thinking about it, most spending decisions have something of that issue.
I think the pack is priced way too high, but on the other hand, there is nothing in there I need to play the game. PWE can adjust the price so they maximize the revenues. I think they would make more money with a lower price, but it is their choice. Since I don't need it, I'm not buying it.
The downside, is if they sold it for $20, I would buy it. This would generate some excitement on my part as I looked forward to the new pet and race. I would keep playing longer, and might buy more items. As it is, I will probably drop this game soon, as I am running out of things to hold my interest.