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Great Weapon Fighters and grouping
smoochan
Member Posts: 2,586 Bounty Hunter
So my favorite class so far is the Great Weapon Fighter. I've seen a lot of posts where people talk about Great Weapon Fighters having a difficult time finding groups end game.
I would like to hear from some people who play Great Weapon Fighters and who consistently get groups for end game content.
Don't need any responses from people saying that getting a end game party as a Great Weapon Fighter is difficult, since there are plenty of posts stating that already, but feel free to do it anyway for no reason
I would like to hear from some people who play Great Weapon Fighters and who consistently get groups for end game content.
Don't need any responses from people saying that getting a end game party as a Great Weapon Fighter is difficult, since there are plenty of posts stating that already, but feel free to do it anyway for no reason
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You will never get into a T2 waiting in the Enclave to hear "LF1M GWF for CN". Nobody is looking for a GWF specifically. But many people look for "good" players all the time.
(Often the system will put 2 TR instead of 1 TR, 1 CW. I would think 2 GWF would be better than 2 TR, if the wizard is out, but..)
Erm, I haven't met anyone in T2 saying they don't want me there so far.
As a side note, I find the Pirate King quite suited for the GWF. I get insane damage score on that one.
The problem with people in que is they are more likely to leave for petty little things. Some don't like challenges, so at first sign of trouble they are out of there. Quite annoying little HAMSTER.
And yes, it is hard to pug as a GWF. Been there, done that.
Running 2 GWFs isn't the greatest idea, but some dungeons it isn't bad. (If you could get a GWF sentinel build, that knows how to draw aggro and can hold it and tank; maybe you could. But Ive yet to meet many)
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You know whats interesting? I've seen that a few times. is it regular like clockwork? no. but I see either that or "LF TR or GWF" far more often then "LF DPS, no GWF PLX". actually never seen that.
I think the issue is that there are a few classes that are simply required, as Cryp has designed the need into each instance run. the bad issue is they didn't do this across the board...so 1 or 2 classes are vital to a run, the rest are "whatever" bad design IMO.
I still support the guild option. best way to get started.
Thanks! *high five*
It would be interesting/ fun doing it with 4 or 5 GWFs.
Well, the PK is very easy, I always choose that one when I want good gear compared to difficulty .-.
For guilds, well my guild - and most of the ones I've been in - like to run one of each class. It means zero loot competition and for the most part the dungeons feel like they are made with that comp in mind.
Though I will admit with a competent CW that has a place to toss foes a GWF does often feel rather superfluous and they could do a lot better with a 2nd rogue. This is pretty much only on bosses and will remain this way until GWFs get a damage bonus against LT and above level mobs or just have target caps removed/increased.
But for minions though, oh man, 3-hits and nothing survives.
Edit: at the time of me posting this, my whole guild is sleeping and i am looking for a group for 1h now.
He must have been a fail GF.
Me am a TR/DC & have finished pirate king several times without a CW.
Seriously, pirate king has some of the easiest mobs to kite in the game.
Make freinds with CW's and DC's in your guild and you can group with them. Sure other guildmates will boot you from parties for being a Fighter. But as long as your CW and DC freinds have got your back those players are the ones that lose out on the groups.
If you are a poor fighter player though you are doomed. Because the good CW's and DC's that like figthers only really ahve time to group with a few of them.
I think the problem with finding a group as a GWF is really a compounding set of issues. The first is, as has been pointed out plenty of times on this forum, that we don't excel at any one area even when we spec for it. TRs will usually provide more damage (thanks to CWs being able to throw tons of mobs off ledges) overall, GFs can tank better, and that leaves us with what? The few mobs that CWs can't toss? One solution to this problem, that I would find interesting (and I know I'm biased) would be to have our multi-hit skills have their damage "set" for an intended 3 targets, have damage reduced for more than three (instead of one) targets, but have it boosted for only single targets. This would preserve one of our roles while letting us DPS bosses more seriously. Again, this might be imbalanced but I want GWFs to be "desirable" for end-game content.
Our second problem is that one of the main classes that people would rather bring instead of us (TR) is probably the most populated class in the game. If people would prefer to replace a GWF with a DC or a GF then it wouldn't be as bad because it would be hard to do so (it's often hard to find a first player to fill those roles for a quick run, let alone two).
I know the solution is guilds/friends but after leveling and partially gearing a GF (let alone a DC or CW) it feels impossible to group with a GWF
1. Pirate (aoe dps)
2. FH (aoe dps)
3. Karr (aoe dps)
4. Spider speed runs (nothing beats GWF at keeping squishies alive while keeping up with a running group AND dpsing boss)
5. CN regular runs (dps heaven and aoe aggro, i.e. replacing GF spot and sometimes TR).
So, the only situations where people have a general preference are when there is more than one CW ledge pushing and high single target damage required too, i.e. some Spellplague pugs (though many CWs learning to solo push) and certain CN speed run compositions (*).
Now, it is not that players are trying to specifically replace good GFs and TRs with GWFs because they do their specific roles better, but it is often because that they do many different things well and can compete or even beat all but the best CWs in aoe dps on average.
Also, unlike CWs, GWFs playstyles seems to scale spectacularly with gear! I have seen a couple of highly geared GWFs who no similarly geared CW could beat in dps, either single or aoe.
That major patch sure seemed to change a lot for GWF (I am not saying that they couldn't use some extra minor tweaking since I don't know the class). But going from being literally questioned as to why would you ever make such a bad class pre-patch and being kicked out of groups immediately (I saw that often before the patch) to being welcomed and sometimes specifically in-demand even in PuGs, is a huge turnaround.
That Cryptic managed to do this without gimping or radically changing the playstyle of the class is quite impressive actually.
Part of the problem is that things have changed so much, but the general player community is still having to revise their expectations of GWFs, plus GWFs understanding their class which is also one of the most level and gear dependent.
On top of that, new forum warriors see many forum posts from just a couple of months ago and think that little has changed, when the difference is like night and day... This is one of the reasons I hate class-specific necros from pre-release across all the forums.
(*) Note that in the case of these specific runs which are basically impossible without at least 1 CW, some will bring 2 CW during Dungeon Delves in case fast relogging causes one of the CWs to drop out, making it impossible to 4-man.
This is not true in any of the groups, pugs or otherwise I have seen at all on all my alts. No one demands perma-black hole for any dungeon at all - my main is a 12k CW. Not even Dracolich is it necessary. It is also easy for any CW to achieve a fast AS from a single Shield pulse among multiple enemies.
Fastest speed runs of Spider needs only one CW due to required boss dps. That, leaves only Spellplague and CN that benefits from having two CW and even Spellplague can get fastest speed runs with only an above average solo CW.
Besides, GWF are not competing with CW *control* role as GWF. You do not have any control skills compared to a CW, i.e. you could never replace a CW for that role. For aoe dps, high geared single target dps, and a lot of other support and utility, that's a whole different ballgame, ofc.
GWF are competing against GF and TR slots. In that, they are very competitive these days, at least in T2+, so much so I kind of regretting having levelled a GF for PvE...
Also spider is super easy with 1 TR 1 GF 2 cws 1 dc. You have multiple AS from the 2 cws when needed but 1 cw can put in ray of enfeeblement in tab slot which totaly negates her healing phases...
A GWF's debuff is way better than RoE, not to mention that a GWF will not get 2-3hit shotted from adds charge like a CW. 10x easier to revive someone as a GWF vs a CW. My main is a CW, and I can tell you that it is easier to do spider with another GWF than with a second CW.
As a CW I really really really much like to have GWF in a group, those guys are always my life insurance. Either that or I just have been blessed by playing with good ones.
...and it is much easier to keep that singularity up if there isn't another CW messing things up.
i said pugs... when i play my CW i do it with the guild and im the only CW. I only tend to pug on my GF or my DC. I agree pugs that have 2 cws is because its hard to find a cw that is good. Ive solo CW'ed all the current content just fine. But often or not i see when i pug on one of my alts CWs not being able to chain cast AS at all or bad at knocking off ledges. But as I play a GF alot and i have run with GWFs in the group, I have never been beat by a GWF on damage done and GFs can hold agro way better then GWF can.