There is a huge advantage when you have a single "Lesser" Weapon or Armor enchantment when it comes to PvP. Also there are more sets for PvE that out shine PvP gear when it comes to set bonuses. Fastest Mount makes a difference too.
So basically what the guild did was to test everything they made sure they had 20-30 Rank 10 runes for armor and pets for each rune field, perfect weapon and armor enchants. Copy your character to Test realm and do all the testing you want to make the perfect character.
While yes it is their choice, there is a huge difference in game play advantage if you have a single weapon and armor enchant. This its been discussed by other people in other threads to argue about the "Buy to Win" for both PvP and PvE.
Edit: Oh and spending AD to by pass the waiting time to max out professions. Since a Dev confirmed that to have the BiS slot gear can be obtained in trade skills, this fueled the incentive.
Also, because the RNG "On loot Drops from dungeons *even with Dungeon Delves*" is so bad, you can just buy most of your gear off of auction house without playing the game fully and beat the game.
So you are complaining about p2w and the rush to end cap and being bored but your whole guild was all about p2w?????
Umm Yeah the problem was you and your guild not wanting to play but wanting to pay to win!!!!
You claim the content was bad but you payed to play it you paid to beat it.
You and your guild needed the advantage of p2w and now you complain it was too easy not complete not enough to do??
Yeah You and your guild is the problem.
You ever visit a deceased loved one at the Cemetery? I have. Some I spend long periods of time reflecting on memories, talking to them in spirit, basking in the warmth of the sun while I reminisce. That's alot like how I feel about this game. It's dead, buried in the ground, but I can't leave...I'm lingering, waiting for something living to call my attention once again.
Here's another analogy for ya:
Imagine a loving couple, they want to have a child. They envision a healthy glowing baby addition to their family, possibilities and hopes abound.
Then tragedy strikes and baby is born dead. Hope is crushed, deep emotional pain ensues. Recovery begins.
That's alot like how I'm sure Cryptic feels about this game.
Is it wrong to bump your own post in the same thread? If so, sorry...no I'm not...Teehehe..I just wanted to get a response to my eloquent analogies.
"I never make mistakes, I once thought I did but I was wrong"
So you are complaining about p2w and the rush to end cap and being bored but your whole guild was all about p2w?????
Umm Yeah the problem was you and your guild not wanting to play but wanting to pay to win!!!!
You claim the content was bad but you payed to play it you paid to beat it.
You and your guild needed the advantage of p2w and now you complain it was too easy not complete not enough to do??
Yeah You and your guild is the problem.
I was a guildy, never a guild leader, it was never my guild to form at first, it was just something they braged about in guild chat and on team speak.
I however, NEVER ONCE, spent a single penny on this poor excuse of a MMO. I mentioned this quite a few post ago. No what I pointed out was that their are plenty of threads showing how the game is "Buy to Win" versus those that play the game for free and get left behind.
There are clear advantages of throwing money at this game and thus this is what kills the game with the "Wall". No I was just complaining that the guild I was in, died, and I am bored with this game.
And I just wanted to know why DnD allowed PW to make this MMO in the first place.
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nick1sternMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 330Bounty Hunter
I was a guildy, never a guild leader, it was never my guild to form at first, it was just something they braged about in guild chat and on team speak.
I however, NEVER ONCE, spent a single penny on this poor excuse of a MMO. I mentioned this quite a few post ago. No what I pointed out was that their are plenty of threads showing how the game is "Buy to Win" versus those that play the game for free and get left behind.
There are clear advantages of throwing money at this game and thus this is what kills the game with the "Wall". No I was just complaining that the guild I was in, died, and I am bored with this game.
And I just wanted to know why DnD allowed PW to make this MMO in the first place.
No you are complaining just to hear yourself.
You had choices, join a like minded guild, play the game not Pay the Game.
You had choices, join a like minded guild, play the game not Pay the Game.
I call BS on your part. If you want to be ignorant about the situation of what alot of people are doing to by pass the "grind" then you sir/maam are a fool.
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nick1sternMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 330Bounty Hunter
I call BS on your part. If you want to be ignorant about the situation of what alot of people are doing to by pass the "grind" then you sir/maam are a fool.
And why is it that the real fools resort to name calling when called out?
Is that All you know how to do.
Follow the heard not make choices of your own and then fall back on name calling when you realise Oh **** I could have made a better choice. I could have Played rather then Payed.... I could have played rather then take the short cuts.... I could play rather then cry about what I did wrong.... I could have started/joined a like minded guild rather then be a follower....
I really have to agree with that last bit, I don't know if it's PWE or Cryptic in this case, but monetization has become the clear point of all cryptic games. The players are frequently ignored, even when giving ideas that would be better or add more value to the game, and everything cryptic is doing points you to either wasting hours grinding, or just buying from the stores. They're not focusing on anything that makes their games great anymore like customization.
Customizing your character and their abilities is what drove City of heroes and Champions online, even star trek has a lot of it, but more and more its obvious that the company just isn't putting in the effort or quality yet expect you to pay the same amount or more for it. Case in point, remember when a $25 horse was the laughing stock off MMO's? You pay $25 real money for a virtual horse and people laughed at them for it, yet some how it's become common place even though the quality is HAMSTER. Its $30 i think for a tiger here, Sto has ships for $25 or more, and none of it is worth the money.
Just in general the quality of the games are going down hill, and instead of putting effort or listening to the players on how to earn the money, they just cover it up and move on. Their last big thing for STO was legacy of Romulus, which was nothing like they'd advertised it to be.... At all... And on top of that it broke the game. There are still a lot of things in game that just aren't working and the Dev team is saying nothing about it or doing nothing about it. Even their last special weekend event didnt work, and instead of owning up to it, they just kept quiet and moved on like it never happened. Champions has been an out right mess for years, and their last 3 events ended in complete failure from everything either not working, to actually turning max level characters into level 1s again. One of those events they just gave up on and tossed out the final mission without doing anything with the event.
As a company, they're making nothing but short term investments, which aren't paying off and its showing. To make matters worse, those short term investments are all over NeverWinter. The Rep system from STO is coming soon under the new campaign system, and all it is, quite literally, is a sink for things like time and resources. It's a terrible waste of what could and in all honestly SHOULD be a lot of great ideas.
In my opinion they need to do a few things first.
1) They need to get back into customization. it's part of what made their games so great, and considering how D&D is all about making your own character and playing your way, i found NW to be ridiculously limiting. Not quite SWTOR bad, but bad none the less. They really need to open up and add way more to both the looks and abilities of the characters. I understand they're limited by the rules of the 4e or 3e book, but it still leaves almost infinite possibility for an imaginative person.
2) Lower Prices. Seriously. This game is way too expensive for a half assed F2P game. While it does take time and resources to make something in game, you only do so once. Beyond that the items are rarely, if ever, updated or improved, only reskinned. Once that initial investment is covered, everything else is profit, there for the best idea is to lower prices and keep them low. The mentality here is that if it's low enough, how can they NOT buy it. Most of the C-Store items aren't that well done, so making them cost more of what they're worth will help people actually buy it whether they need it or not. I shouldn't ever Pay more than $5 for a virtual mount, and nothing more than $1 for a single full outfit.
3) The Foundry. This thing is awesome. If they managed to get it working well enough, it would be a driving force for the company. I like what they did in STO, i have yet to try the NW version which is supposed to be better, and CO desperately needs this. The foundry alone could be such a huge deal for adding new content or missions for free.
4) Quit overhyping. What you have is pretty good, but don't oversell it or tell us it's something its not. That's dishonest, and false advertisement which would be illegal if we were paying for it. Legacy of Romulus is a big example, the entire KDF faction is another(although it got better), the original LTS for STO, there are so many things the devs say which turn out to not be true. Knock it off. The ironic thing here is that if they were upfront and honest about things, people wouldn't get as bent out of shape. If something happens and it isn't going to work just say so, or just tell us the team couldn't handle it, or just tell us it would be too much work just yet. People will understand and move on. They're surprisingly accommodating to things like the truth.
5) Don't just add something and forget about it. That's the story of Champions online. Every time something new was added, the team never touched it after the first few bug fixes. Bases, powers, vehicles, missions, There are so many things in Cryptics games that need to be updated, or finished and nothing gets done with them. It really kills the overall quality of the game when they're clearly not putting the effort into things before pushing them live.
6) Quality over everything else. If you're going to do something do it right and do it well. Don't just do it half way and call if finished. Dont leave something at the bare minimum, especially when things are added later on which really point that fact out. The skins in STO are a huge example of this. When the game first came out, only the head and hands were exposed, so the skins were just made on the head (already half assing it, eh?) then when more and more outfits came out showing more, the skins still only covered the head. Now they have beach clothes which show off a lot more skin, and yet nothing is being done to make the skins cover the full body, and it looks terrible.
7) Listen to the players. Mind you i don't mean give them everything they want, don't follow their orders, things like that. What i mean is listen to them because they do have some legitimately great ideas to make the game better. There are constant threads that in some cases LITERALLY tell you what to do to take their money. They're telling you what they want to spend money on, they're telling you how to make existing things more worth the money spent on them, they're giving you ideas to help draw more people to the game so they can spend money on it too. They WANT you to succeed, and they want to help you do that, but you need to listen.
And why is it that the real fools resort to name calling when called out?
Is that All you know how to do.
Follow the heard not make choices of your own and then fall back on name calling when you realise Oh **** I could have made a better choice. I could have Played rather then Payed.... I could have played rather then take the short cuts.... I could play rather then cry about what I did wrong.... I could have started/joined a like minded guild rather then be a follower....
Oh dear... so because I called you out, on what is one of "many" problems that is making this MMO fail, you get all sensitive. I promise you, a single person like you who doesn't spend money on this game, like I do as well in not spending money; assuming you are telling the truth or not; doesn't rememdied the situation at hand.
I would take you serious but you have indicated enough of yourself that you are unaware of the problems of the game and are basically wasting my time and anyone elses just to suit your entertainment or feel important, whatever floats your boat.
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krahctMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I really have to agree with that last bit, I don't know if it's PWE or Cryptic in this case, but monetization has become the clear point of all cryptic games. .....cut for length
I agree with you. Unfortunately there is something in business economics called Supply and Demand. Game development companies have fallen victim to the most negative aspect of this principle. The demand for quick success and achievement in game has outweighed the desire to earn items in game through 'grinding' and experiencing the game's content. The game design companies realized this and marketing and business development people began devising ways to make money on it, and quickly. In some ways the players are to blame as much as the game development companies.
At some point, it will equalize, hopefully. When demand for 'quick wins' in games falls off, supply of games that provide that environment will change or die. It's a passing fad in gaming and venture capital companies are trying to make as much money as possible before it fades into oblivion (no pun intended).
The gaming industry is still in it's infancy and vulnerable to childish snatch and grab the cookies behavior, it will learn.
"I never make mistakes, I once thought I did but I was wrong"
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nick1sternMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 330Bounty Hunter
Oh dear... so because I called you out, on what is one of "many" problems that is making this MMO fail, you get all sensitive. I promise you, a single person like you who doesn't spend money on this game, like I do as well in not spending money; assuming you are telling the truth or not; doesn't rememdied the situation at hand.
I would take you serious but you have indicated enough of yourself that you are unaware of the problems of the game and are basically wasting my time and anyone elses just to suit your entertainment or feel important, whatever floats your boat.
Oh I am aware of the problems.
I do not blow them out of proportion and claim tens of thousands spent....
I do not need hyperbole to make a point.
I do not need to call other names as you seem to have the need to do.
Guess what you have spent money you are not buthurt over nothing.
You spent money you rushed to end game you complain there is no content and feel cheated.
A dog with a bone but stay in denial and try to act all concerned about the game rather then your own mistakes that you chose to blame others rather then fix your self.
I agree with you. Unfortunately there is something in business economics called Supply and Demand. Game development companies have fallen victim to the most negative aspect of this principle. The demand for quick success and achievement in game has outweighed the desire to earn items in game through 'grinding' and experiencing the game's content. The game design companies realized this and marketing and business development people began devising ways to make money on it, and quickly. In some ways the players are to blame as much as the game development companies.
At some point, it will equalize, hopefully. When demand for 'quick wins' in games falls off, supply of games that provide that environment will change or die. It's a passing fad in gaming and venture capital companies are trying to make as much money as possible before it fades into oblivion (no pun intended).
The gaming industry is still in it's infancy and vulnerable to childish snatch and grab the cookies behavior, it will learn.
I will have to protest on this. Its not about "Success of Achieving something" nor about "lack of desire of earning items" its the mere fact the game sucks.
MMOs these days, "World of Warcraft" being the worst of them, has abused "Grinding" to the point of making a job to play the game to grind something.
Take example WoW's terrible "Daily" and "Reputation" system to accomplish a goal. You are "grinding" on an MMO for a digital item that is going to be replaced or being a complitionist, that could take over 5 months or years to finish it.
Which does nothing for you in real life. Not even in the sake of entertainment.
No... when an MMO adds "grinding" it means it lacks content. No... I don't mean content that progress the story or future game improvements, I mean just for the sake of reply value for "fun".
So no, I don't support this terrible idea of "MMO grinding" for a false sense of accomplishment, I want "reply value" to start all over, to enjoy the game on an MMO.
If I wanted a sense of accomplishment, I find that in real life. A game is to be a form of entertainment, if you go outside of that, then its basically not entertaining and its clearly not a game anymore.
I will have to protest on this. Its not about "Success of Achieving something" nor about "lack of desire of earning items" its the mere fact the game sucks.
MMOs these days, "World of Warcraft" being the worst of them, has abused "Grinding" to the point of making a job to play the game to grind something.
Take example WoW's terrible "Daily" and "Reputation" system to accomplish a goal. You are "grinding" on an MMO for a digital item that is going to be replaced or being a complitionist, that could take over 5 months or years to finish it.
Which does nothing for you in real life. Not even in the sake of entertainment.
No... when an MMO adds "grinding" it means it lacks content. No... I don't mean content that progress the story or future game improvements, I mean just for the sake of reply value for "fun".
So no, I don't support this terrible idea of "MMO grinding" for a false sense of accomplishment, I want "reply value" to start all over, to enjoy the game on an MMO.
If I wanted a sense of accomplishment, I find that in real life. A game is to be a form of entertainment, if you go outside of that, then its basically not entertaining and its clearly not a game anymore.
yep. However, MMOs aren't games, their vices, their addictions, and to keep an addict addicted you need a system of sacrifice and reward. Game developers started hiring psychologist years ago to find ways to make games more addictive, "grinding for a reward behavior" was one of the items found to keep a player playing the game. If you didn't get accomplishments in the MMO you wouldn't enjoy it, it would no longer give you a fix and the entertainment aspect would diminish.
Think of it like this, alcohol has no real scientific or medically proven health benefits when consumed in large intoxicating quantities, however millions of people drink it to get the fix. Take away the fix and it's just barley tasting nasty *** water, and quickly the association of alcohol tasting good will diminish. Remember neer beer, or low alcohol beer, it doesn't sell worth a shiznit, why? No fix. and it tastes like dirt water.
"I never make mistakes, I once thought I did but I was wrong"
yep. However, MMOs aren't games, their vices, their addictions, and to keep an addict addicted you need a system of sacrifice and reward. Game developers started hiring psychologist years ago to find ways to make games more addictive, "grinding for a reward behavior" was one of the items found to keep a player playing the game. If you didn't get accomplishments in the MMO you wouldn't enjoy it, it would no longer give you a fix and the entertainment aspect would diminish.
Think of it like this, alcohol has no real scientific or medically proven health benefits when consumed in large intoxicating quantities, however millions of people drink it to get the fix. Take away the fix and it's just barley tasting nasty *** water, and quickly the association of alcohol tasting good will diminish.
If a video game company like "Valve" that comes to mind who hired a "psychologist" to make their games, so called better; then its a clear factor that your "Game" sucked in the first place.
Take a look at Dota, SC, and Lol communities. They are constantly at each other throats when playing the game or at the throats of their nemisis with the other 2 communities.
So ask yourself, how in the world... is this healthy to begin with in the first place? When a "Video Game" causes and fuels that aggressiveness, the game is not a good game to begin with and thus no longer a video game of entertainment.
Yet people will continue to argue of this fact, until they are frothing mad in the mouth, similar to how Sports are with Football fans. Its unhealthy and its bad for the community but people are willing to throw money at these businesses just so they can make their lives even more miserable.
Yet companies will sit by idle and do nothing unless it involves jurystiction and then they blame the "fans"/"Customers"/"Consummers", not themselves. However as brain-washed people are... they will "blame themselves" and not the business people and this is the part where I see many times in MMO companies and become disgusted.
Also the "beer" thing, last time I read the "beer" thing is when "water" was hard to get, it was intergrated harshly into our history and even now that water is easier to get for most people, there are still countries that have people suffer in water issues.
So in all, some people dont have a choice, while others do.
Tying this into your arguement of a lack of sense of accomplisment, is stupid. When it comes to MMO, its what the game offers, and the person playing it determines what is worth an accomplisment.
Making something into a "grind" is not a sense of accomplisment in "MMO grinding" terms. I mean for 20 bucks or less, I can buy a console game and if taken proper care of, I can go back and play that console with a one time fee, by myself with no issues and didn't have to rely on other people to help me reach my goal, and can "Pause" that progression at any time and come back later if real life interfered. Nintendo comes to mind in this statement.
Again, on MMOs if you take a breaker or fall behind, you cant experience the game when it comes to grinding. So congratulations to the person "You now realize that you joined this MMO way to late and there for cannot experience the rest of the game and are forced to play the latest content".
And if the company removes a single portion of the grinding to help players go back to old content or catch up, the original players get all offended and spit out the debate of "Sense of Accomplishment".
Which is oxymoron because if a company can even think about removing "Grinding" in any part of the game, it then there for supports my "Fact" that the content was HAMSTER to begin with and thus the "grinding" was there to make it less entertaining.
Well... perhaps if the game was better, threads like this wont exist. It doesn't matter if this thread becomes locked, closed, or deleted; its the mere fact that "Perfect World" deliberately allowed the game to fail.
So I blame the company, not the idea of the game, but it clearly shows that Dungeon and Dragons Online, is far superior than this piece of junk.
you're wrong.
the quality of this game doesn't matter, in regards to threads like this.
this game could be the greatest thing since open heart surgery, and there would still be threads like this.
I will have to protest on this. Its not about "Success of Achieving something" nor about "lack of desire of earning items" its the mere fact the game sucks.
MMOs these days, "World of Warcraft" being the worst of them, has abused "Grinding" to the point of making a job to play the game to grind something.
Take example WoW's terrible "Daily" and "Reputation" system to accomplish a goal. You are "grinding" on an MMO for a digital item that is going to be replaced or being a complitionist, that could take over 5 months or years to finish it.
Which does nothing for you in real life. Not even in the sake of entertainment.
No... when an MMO adds "grinding" it means it lacks content. No... I don't mean content that progress the story or future game improvements, I mean just for the sake of reply value for "fun".
So no, I don't support this terrible idea of "MMO grinding" for a false sense of accomplishment, I want "reply value" to start all over, to enjoy the game on an MMO.
If I wanted a sense of accomplishment, I find that in real life. A game is to be a form of entertainment, if you go outside of that, then its basically not entertaining and its clearly not a game anymore.
I agree with the bold.
that said, Neverwinter entertains me plenty. that's why I play it, and I buy zen when I can.
For example, every single MMO person (or atleast the majority) got upset that Zenimax announced that "The Elder Scrolls Online" wasn't an MMO but more an "Online" feature that will allow you to group up with friends but the main focus is allowing a person "Solo game play".
Odd, I've never heard that from anyone. And, being a long-time Elder Scrolls player, I hang out quite a bit on the TES forums. /shrug
(For the record, I play MMO's mostly "solo"..... but they're still MMOs. I'm interacting with a Massively Multiple number of people via chat, via the economy, and via the random interactions that happen when we come across each other in the worldspace. Just because I don't spend all my time queuing for 5/10/20-man dungeons, doesn't make it not a multiplayer game.)
re: MMO "grinding".... that's nothing new. And it's certainly not anything that came from WoW and later. It's also not a f2p thing..... "time-gating" content - either via low drop rates, or requiring the gathering of lots of some resource, or restricting access (rare monsters spawning infrequently; raid lockouts; etc) - has been a standard feature of subscription MMOs pretty much forever. It's how you keep people subscribing, since otherwise they'll always be able to burn through content faster than your team can possibly make it.
The only multiplayer game forum I haven't seen a thread like this. 15 years ago. Biscuitboard. Megateamfortress for quakeworld. It was all down hill from there.
Odd, I've never heard that from anyone. And, being a long-time Elder Scrolls player, I hang out quite a bit on the TES forums. /shrug
(For the record, I play MMO's mostly "solo"..... but they're still MMOs. I'm interacting with a Massively Multiple number of people via chat, via the economy, and via the random interactions that happen when we come across each other in the worldspace. Just because I don't spend all my time queuing for 5/10/20-man dungeons, doesn't make it not a multiplayer game.)
re: MMO "grinding".... that's nothing new. And it's certainly not anything that came from WoW and later. It's also not a f2p thing..... "time-gating" content - either via low drop rates, or requiring the gathering of lots of some resource, or restricting access (rare monsters spawning infrequently; raid lockouts; etc) - has been a standard feature of subscription MMOs pretty much forever. It's how you keep people subscribing, since otherwise they'll always be able to burn through content faster than your team can possibly make it.
Kinda suprised you didn't hear about that, it was announced a long time ago that the community thought TESO was an MMO but TESO said they never said that and it was an "Online" game to play with friends but still allowed solo game play to access end game content.
It was stated before the push back to Spring of 2014. Not sure how you could miss that.
I like playing MMOs solo too but when you get to the point that you can't access content that requires relying on people to do something challenging like raid or end game dungeons, if a single person cant make the group formation, real life happens, or someone mess up, you or anyone else cannot access that content.
And if that content is designed too be difficult to please "elitist players", 9/10 you end up watching video of other players experiencing that content and since you've seen it, what's the point of trying to experience it yourself?
What... that "false sense of accomplisment of find group or a raid group composed of 5 people or more and hoping all turns out well"?
On a single console player game, I can spend 1 or 2 hours (depending on the console game) doing a dungeon or a hard quest. There is no gamble and eventually I will complete the puzzles, the boss battles, and the quest.
On a MMO, you have to rely on other people and for example on World of Warcraft raiding, some guilds never get passed the first boss, no matter how nerfed the encounter is after a couple of hours.
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devostifMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Odd, I've never heard that from anyone. And, being a long-time Elder Scrolls player, I hang out quite a bit on the TES forums. /shrug
(For the record, I play MMO's mostly "solo"..... but they're still MMOs. I'm interacting with a Massively Multiple number of people via chat, via the economy, and via the random interactions that happen when we come across each other in the worldspace. Just because I don't spend all my time queuing for 5/10/20-man dungeons, doesn't make it not a multiplayer game.)
re: MMO "grinding".... that's nothing new. And it's certainly not anything that came from WoW and later. It's also not a f2p thing..... "time-gating" content - either via low drop rates, or requiring the gathering of lots of some resource, or restricting access (rare monsters spawning infrequently; raid lockouts; etc) - has been a standard feature of subscription MMOs pretty much forever. It's how you keep people subscribing, since otherwise they'll always be able to burn through content faster than your team can possibly make it.
I've heard about that as well and I don't hang out on the TES forums /shrug
So is this how MMOs going to be in the future? Broad cast Free-to-play, add a cash shop, removing subscription, and rake in the money to individuals that are stupid enough to spend the money on cash shops?
Pretty much, yeah.
I'm concerned with the growing trend of game companies selling "beta access" to people idiotic enough to pay a game company to beta test their product.
I surely can't be the only person that remembers (heck, Nintendo here in Seattle STILL hires game testers) when game companies paid employees to test their products?
To me, things like "Founder's Packs" and "Early Access Packs" are poorly disguised money grabs, and I'm seeing quite a few popping up in Steam now.
I don't blame the game companies for this, after all....they ARE trying to make a profit. I -DO- blame the consumers, however...for falling for this tripe. I just don't get what happened? Where people suddenly became mindless sheep, or better yet...zombies following a dangled brain on a steeck. (If you don't get the reference, then don't bother commenting. No, it's not a misspelling.)
I had more to say, but it's best I don't say it. Self-moderation for the win!
4. In-demand classes, like DCs or GFs, (at least as far as getting into a PUG via the queue), are less fun to play, get criticized more if they're not performing at full efficiency, and there being relatively few "correct playstyles" for them.
You can number me amongst them now, as I have experienced a whole new wave of DCs this week. Several of them have tried to heal dungeons using soothing light only. No amount of the group telling them that they need to be mobile, use sunburst and seals etc.. Sadly, a lot of them either don't have a chat window, or don't understand English, either, so it's not fixable.
If you're the DC, and you play like a cretin, it's a lot harder for the group to carry you than if you're just a terrible TR. If you rerolled just to be in demand, and haven't bothered to l2p, you deserve all the flak that you get, that simple.
Meh... i'm not the "meme" type of guy, so i will give this "trollish" individual an answer that simply explain his first world problem:
Gaming is an industry, companies first and foremost goal is to make money, they have discovered that this bssines model is more profitable than making "complete games", so that's what they do and they wll continue doing until they discover a more profitable bussines model, there is nothing you can do agaisnt, its just how it works, if you want to play "complete games" buy a single title of the thousands of non MMO ones in the market, i'm replaying right now all the mass effects, and enjoying it, but also playing a bunch of hours/day this game and also enjoying it (well, i'm a little bored right now, but thats because im saving for a perfect weapon enchantment and thats a huge buttload of AD, but thats the acomplishment spirit, im not expending money, im expending dungeon runs).
Kinda suprised you didn't hear about that, it was announced a long time ago that the community thought TESO was an MMO but TESO said they never said that and it was an "Online" game to play with friends but still allowed solo game play to access end game content.
Did a Google search on "TESO not an MMO"... just popped up articles related to something a dev said last week. Which, honestly, just sounds like marketing-speak.... when you translate it, the game sounds like every other MMO in the last 5 years. You can quest/level solo if you want, but you'll want help for dungeons. And in this case, dungeons aren't personal instances, so you'll end up in the dungeon with other people who happened to wander in there (I imagine there'll still be some sort of "instancing", just to keep down crowding).
And on the TESO forum, I didn't see anything talking about this. Also haven't seen any mentions on Kotaku or RPGamer. /shrug
For me, the most common complaints I saw were that it existed at all - for a large % of TES fans, even being 2-player co-op would be too many players. "TES is a single player franchise, how dare they MMO!", etc. That's died down, mostly the single-player TES folks are just ignoring it.
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leafloverMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 16Arc User
edited July 2013
Ive seen a lot of raging about guild wars 2 behing uncomplete here. Altrought you may pretend the game is uncomplete its those little update that actualy makes it interesting. Because you get to have something new every single month you actualy get to do something new and to be present to actual events (just how long do you think i spent playing tag during the halloween event rather then actualy going and killing anything else? Oh right i also played snowball fight and ran up a tower to gain some very cool transmog too)
Guild Wars 2 is hardly uncomplete it just happen to have lot of cool temporary event that actualy spice up your life. Also theres no garantee there wont be expension set like they did with the first Guild Wars. Im still waiting for a new adventure in Cantha and Elona wich bytway they mentionned would be in the game later or in the crystal desert with some new elder dragon we havent fought yet (there are 5 elder dragon yet we so far have only fought and destroyed one)
Id hardly classify Guild Wars 2 as uncomplete. You also stated skyrim was complete on release but it still managed to get several DLC wich actualy makes the game even more complete what is your answer to that?
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nick1sternMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 330Bounty Hunter
Kinda suprised you didn't hear about that, it was announced a long time ago that the community thought TESO was an MMO but TESO said they never said that and it was an "Online" game to play with friends but still allowed solo game play to access end game content.
It was stated before the push back to Spring of 2014. Not sure how you could miss that.
Provide a link some proff or all we have is your distorted oppinion.....
It's a decent game ruined by an inept, arrogant, incompetent dev team. Too slow, terrible coders, no QA, no CS, broken patch after broken patch. Let's not forget the wave after wave of exploits. Instead of making a game, they are just making as much cash as possible while they bumble and flail against a game seemingly designed to fail.
No one on this dev team (or community reps for that matter) appear to be competent or professional in any way.
Comments
So you are complaining about p2w and the rush to end cap and being bored but your whole guild was all about p2w?????
Umm Yeah the problem was you and your guild not wanting to play but wanting to pay to win!!!!
You claim the content was bad but you payed to play it you paid to beat it.
You and your guild needed the advantage of p2w and now you complain it was too easy not complete not enough to do??
Yeah You and your guild is the problem.
People are so funny, lol.
Is it wrong to bump your own post in the same thread? If so, sorry...no I'm not...Teehehe..I just wanted to get a response to my eloquent analogies.
I was a guildy, never a guild leader, it was never my guild to form at first, it was just something they braged about in guild chat and on team speak.
I however, NEVER ONCE, spent a single penny on this poor excuse of a MMO. I mentioned this quite a few post ago. No what I pointed out was that their are plenty of threads showing how the game is "Buy to Win" versus those that play the game for free and get left behind.
There are clear advantages of throwing money at this game and thus this is what kills the game with the "Wall". No I was just complaining that the guild I was in, died, and I am bored with this game.
And I just wanted to know why DnD allowed PW to make this MMO in the first place.
No you are complaining just to hear yourself.
You had choices, join a like minded guild, play the game not Pay the Game.
I call BS on your part. If you want to be ignorant about the situation of what alot of people are doing to by pass the "grind" then you sir/maam are a fool.
And why is it that the real fools resort to name calling when called out?
Is that All you know how to do.
Follow the heard not make choices of your own and then fall back on name calling when you realise Oh **** I could have made a better choice. I could have Played rather then Payed.... I could have played rather then take the short cuts.... I could play rather then cry about what I did wrong.... I could have started/joined a like minded guild rather then be a follower....
Customizing your character and their abilities is what drove City of heroes and Champions online, even star trek has a lot of it, but more and more its obvious that the company just isn't putting in the effort or quality yet expect you to pay the same amount or more for it. Case in point, remember when a $25 horse was the laughing stock off MMO's? You pay $25 real money for a virtual horse and people laughed at them for it, yet some how it's become common place even though the quality is HAMSTER. Its $30 i think for a tiger here, Sto has ships for $25 or more, and none of it is worth the money.
Just in general the quality of the games are going down hill, and instead of putting effort or listening to the players on how to earn the money, they just cover it up and move on. Their last big thing for STO was legacy of Romulus, which was nothing like they'd advertised it to be.... At all... And on top of that it broke the game. There are still a lot of things in game that just aren't working and the Dev team is saying nothing about it or doing nothing about it. Even their last special weekend event didnt work, and instead of owning up to it, they just kept quiet and moved on like it never happened. Champions has been an out right mess for years, and their last 3 events ended in complete failure from everything either not working, to actually turning max level characters into level 1s again. One of those events they just gave up on and tossed out the final mission without doing anything with the event.
As a company, they're making nothing but short term investments, which aren't paying off and its showing. To make matters worse, those short term investments are all over NeverWinter. The Rep system from STO is coming soon under the new campaign system, and all it is, quite literally, is a sink for things like time and resources. It's a terrible waste of what could and in all honestly SHOULD be a lot of great ideas.
In my opinion they need to do a few things first.
1) They need to get back into customization. it's part of what made their games so great, and considering how D&D is all about making your own character and playing your way, i found NW to be ridiculously limiting. Not quite SWTOR bad, but bad none the less. They really need to open up and add way more to both the looks and abilities of the characters. I understand they're limited by the rules of the 4e or 3e book, but it still leaves almost infinite possibility for an imaginative person.
2) Lower Prices. Seriously. This game is way too expensive for a half assed F2P game. While it does take time and resources to make something in game, you only do so once. Beyond that the items are rarely, if ever, updated or improved, only reskinned. Once that initial investment is covered, everything else is profit, there for the best idea is to lower prices and keep them low. The mentality here is that if it's low enough, how can they NOT buy it. Most of the C-Store items aren't that well done, so making them cost more of what they're worth will help people actually buy it whether they need it or not. I shouldn't ever Pay more than $5 for a virtual mount, and nothing more than $1 for a single full outfit.
3) The Foundry. This thing is awesome. If they managed to get it working well enough, it would be a driving force for the company. I like what they did in STO, i have yet to try the NW version which is supposed to be better, and CO desperately needs this. The foundry alone could be such a huge deal for adding new content or missions for free.
4) Quit overhyping. What you have is pretty good, but don't oversell it or tell us it's something its not. That's dishonest, and false advertisement which would be illegal if we were paying for it. Legacy of Romulus is a big example, the entire KDF faction is another(although it got better), the original LTS for STO, there are so many things the devs say which turn out to not be true. Knock it off. The ironic thing here is that if they were upfront and honest about things, people wouldn't get as bent out of shape. If something happens and it isn't going to work just say so, or just tell us the team couldn't handle it, or just tell us it would be too much work just yet. People will understand and move on. They're surprisingly accommodating to things like the truth.
5) Don't just add something and forget about it. That's the story of Champions online. Every time something new was added, the team never touched it after the first few bug fixes. Bases, powers, vehicles, missions, There are so many things in Cryptics games that need to be updated, or finished and nothing gets done with them. It really kills the overall quality of the game when they're clearly not putting the effort into things before pushing them live.
6) Quality over everything else. If you're going to do something do it right and do it well. Don't just do it half way and call if finished. Dont leave something at the bare minimum, especially when things are added later on which really point that fact out. The skins in STO are a huge example of this. When the game first came out, only the head and hands were exposed, so the skins were just made on the head (already half assing it, eh?) then when more and more outfits came out showing more, the skins still only covered the head. Now they have beach clothes which show off a lot more skin, and yet nothing is being done to make the skins cover the full body, and it looks terrible.
7) Listen to the players. Mind you i don't mean give them everything they want, don't follow their orders, things like that. What i mean is listen to them because they do have some legitimately great ideas to make the game better. There are constant threads that in some cases LITERALLY tell you what to do to take their money. They're telling you what they want to spend money on, they're telling you how to make existing things more worth the money spent on them, they're giving you ideas to help draw more people to the game so they can spend money on it too. They WANT you to succeed, and they want to help you do that, but you need to listen.
Oh dear... so because I called you out, on what is one of "many" problems that is making this MMO fail, you get all sensitive. I promise you, a single person like you who doesn't spend money on this game, like I do as well in not spending money; assuming you are telling the truth or not; doesn't rememdied the situation at hand.
I would take you serious but you have indicated enough of yourself that you are unaware of the problems of the game and are basically wasting my time and anyone elses just to suit your entertainment or feel important, whatever floats your boat.
I agree with you. Unfortunately there is something in business economics called Supply and Demand. Game development companies have fallen victim to the most negative aspect of this principle. The demand for quick success and achievement in game has outweighed the desire to earn items in game through 'grinding' and experiencing the game's content. The game design companies realized this and marketing and business development people began devising ways to make money on it, and quickly. In some ways the players are to blame as much as the game development companies.
At some point, it will equalize, hopefully. When demand for 'quick wins' in games falls off, supply of games that provide that environment will change or die. It's a passing fad in gaming and venture capital companies are trying to make as much money as possible before it fades into oblivion (no pun intended).
The gaming industry is still in it's infancy and vulnerable to childish snatch and grab the cookies behavior, it will learn.
Oh I am aware of the problems.
I do not blow them out of proportion and claim tens of thousands spent....
I do not need hyperbole to make a point.
I do not need to call other names as you seem to have the need to do.
Guess what you have spent money you are not buthurt over nothing.
You spent money you rushed to end game you complain there is no content and feel cheated.
A dog with a bone but stay in denial and try to act all concerned about the game rather then your own mistakes that you chose to blame others rather then fix your self.
I will have to protest on this. Its not about "Success of Achieving something" nor about "lack of desire of earning items" its the mere fact the game sucks.
MMOs these days, "World of Warcraft" being the worst of them, has abused "Grinding" to the point of making a job to play the game to grind something.
Take example WoW's terrible "Daily" and "Reputation" system to accomplish a goal. You are "grinding" on an MMO for a digital item that is going to be replaced or being a complitionist, that could take over 5 months or years to finish it.
Which does nothing for you in real life. Not even in the sake of entertainment.
No... when an MMO adds "grinding" it means it lacks content. No... I don't mean content that progress the story or future game improvements, I mean just for the sake of reply value for "fun".
So no, I don't support this terrible idea of "MMO grinding" for a false sense of accomplishment, I want "reply value" to start all over, to enjoy the game on an MMO.
If I wanted a sense of accomplishment, I find that in real life. A game is to be a form of entertainment, if you go outside of that, then its basically not entertaining and its clearly not a game anymore.
The force is strong in this one...
FTFY yw
Fox Stevenson - Sandblast
Oh Wonder - Without You
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
- Dylan Thomas
yep. However, MMOs aren't games, their vices, their addictions, and to keep an addict addicted you need a system of sacrifice and reward. Game developers started hiring psychologist years ago to find ways to make games more addictive, "grinding for a reward behavior" was one of the items found to keep a player playing the game. If you didn't get accomplishments in the MMO you wouldn't enjoy it, it would no longer give you a fix and the entertainment aspect would diminish.
Think of it like this, alcohol has no real scientific or medically proven health benefits when consumed in large intoxicating quantities, however millions of people drink it to get the fix. Take away the fix and it's just barley tasting nasty *** water, and quickly the association of alcohol tasting good will diminish. Remember neer beer, or low alcohol beer, it doesn't sell worth a shiznit, why? No fix. and it tastes like dirt water.
If a video game company like "Valve" that comes to mind who hired a "psychologist" to make their games, so called better; then its a clear factor that your "Game" sucked in the first place.
Take a look at Dota, SC, and Lol communities. They are constantly at each other throats when playing the game or at the throats of their nemisis with the other 2 communities.
So ask yourself, how in the world... is this healthy to begin with in the first place? When a "Video Game" causes and fuels that aggressiveness, the game is not a good game to begin with and thus no longer a video game of entertainment.
Yet people will continue to argue of this fact, until they are frothing mad in the mouth, similar to how Sports are with Football fans. Its unhealthy and its bad for the community but people are willing to throw money at these businesses just so they can make their lives even more miserable.
Yet companies will sit by idle and do nothing unless it involves jurystiction and then they blame the "fans"/"Customers"/"Consummers", not themselves. However as brain-washed people are... they will "blame themselves" and not the business people and this is the part where I see many times in MMO companies and become disgusted.
Also the "beer" thing, last time I read the "beer" thing is when "water" was hard to get, it was intergrated harshly into our history and even now that water is easier to get for most people, there are still countries that have people suffer in water issues.
So in all, some people dont have a choice, while others do.
Tying this into your arguement of a lack of sense of accomplisment, is stupid. When it comes to MMO, its what the game offers, and the person playing it determines what is worth an accomplisment.
Making something into a "grind" is not a sense of accomplisment in "MMO grinding" terms. I mean for 20 bucks or less, I can buy a console game and if taken proper care of, I can go back and play that console with a one time fee, by myself with no issues and didn't have to rely on other people to help me reach my goal, and can "Pause" that progression at any time and come back later if real life interfered. Nintendo comes to mind in this statement.
Again, on MMOs if you take a breaker or fall behind, you cant experience the game when it comes to grinding. So congratulations to the person "You now realize that you joined this MMO way to late and there for cannot experience the rest of the game and are forced to play the latest content".
And if the company removes a single portion of the grinding to help players go back to old content or catch up, the original players get all offended and spit out the debate of "Sense of Accomplishment".
Which is oxymoron because if a company can even think about removing "Grinding" in any part of the game, it then there for supports my "Fact" that the content was HAMSTER to begin with and thus the "grinding" was there to make it less entertaining.
you're wrong.
the quality of this game doesn't matter, in regards to threads like this.
this game could be the greatest thing since open heart surgery, and there would still be threads like this.
I agree with the bold.
that said, Neverwinter entertains me plenty. that's why I play it, and I buy zen when I can.
Odd, I've never heard that from anyone. And, being a long-time Elder Scrolls player, I hang out quite a bit on the TES forums. /shrug
(For the record, I play MMO's mostly "solo"..... but they're still MMOs. I'm interacting with a Massively Multiple number of people via chat, via the economy, and via the random interactions that happen when we come across each other in the worldspace. Just because I don't spend all my time queuing for 5/10/20-man dungeons, doesn't make it not a multiplayer game.)
re: MMO "grinding".... that's nothing new. And it's certainly not anything that came from WoW and later. It's also not a f2p thing..... "time-gating" content - either via low drop rates, or requiring the gathering of lots of some resource, or restricting access (rare monsters spawning infrequently; raid lockouts; etc) - has been a standard feature of subscription MMOs pretty much forever. It's how you keep people subscribing, since otherwise they'll always be able to burn through content faster than your team can possibly make it.
Fox Stevenson - Sandblast
Oh Wonder - Without You
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
- Dylan Thomas
Kinda suprised you didn't hear about that, it was announced a long time ago that the community thought TESO was an MMO but TESO said they never said that and it was an "Online" game to play with friends but still allowed solo game play to access end game content.
It was stated before the push back to Spring of 2014. Not sure how you could miss that.
I like playing MMOs solo too but when you get to the point that you can't access content that requires relying on people to do something challenging like raid or end game dungeons, if a single person cant make the group formation, real life happens, or someone mess up, you or anyone else cannot access that content.
And if that content is designed too be difficult to please "elitist players", 9/10 you end up watching video of other players experiencing that content and since you've seen it, what's the point of trying to experience it yourself?
What... that "false sense of accomplisment of find group or a raid group composed of 5 people or more and hoping all turns out well"?
On a single console player game, I can spend 1 or 2 hours (depending on the console game) doing a dungeon or a hard quest. There is no gamble and eventually I will complete the puzzles, the boss battles, and the quest.
On a MMO, you have to rely on other people and for example on World of Warcraft raiding, some guilds never get passed the first boss, no matter how nerfed the encounter is after a couple of hours.
I've heard about that as well and I don't hang out on the TES forums /shrug
Pretty much, yeah.
I'm concerned with the growing trend of game companies selling "beta access" to people idiotic enough to pay a game company to beta test their product.
I surely can't be the only person that remembers (heck, Nintendo here in Seattle STILL hires game testers) when game companies paid employees to test their products?
To me, things like "Founder's Packs" and "Early Access Packs" are poorly disguised money grabs, and I'm seeing quite a few popping up in Steam now.
I don't blame the game companies for this, after all....they ARE trying to make a profit. I -DO- blame the consumers, however...for falling for this tripe. I just don't get what happened? Where people suddenly became mindless sheep, or better yet...zombies following a dangled brain on a steeck. (If you don't get the reference, then don't bother commenting. No, it's not a misspelling.)
I had more to say, but it's best I don't say it. Self-moderation for the win!
Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean.
You can number me amongst them now, as I have experienced a whole new wave of DCs this week. Several of them have tried to heal dungeons using soothing light only. No amount of the group telling them that they need to be mobile, use sunburst and seals etc.. Sadly, a lot of them either don't have a chat window, or don't understand English, either, so it's not fixable.
If you're the DC, and you play like a cretin, it's a lot harder for the group to carry you than if you're just a terrible TR. If you rerolled just to be in demand, and haven't bothered to l2p, you deserve all the flak that you get, that simple.
Gaming is an industry, companies first and foremost goal is to make money, they have discovered that this bssines model is more profitable than making "complete games", so that's what they do and they wll continue doing until they discover a more profitable bussines model, there is nothing you can do agaisnt, its just how it works, if you want to play "complete games" buy a single title of the thousands of non MMO ones in the market, i'm replaying right now all the mass effects, and enjoying it, but also playing a bunch of hours/day this game and also enjoying it (well, i'm a little bored right now, but thats because im saving for a perfect weapon enchantment and thats a huge buttload of AD, but thats the acomplishment spirit, im not expending money, im expending dungeon runs).
Did a Google search on "TESO not an MMO"... just popped up articles related to something a dev said last week. Which, honestly, just sounds like marketing-speak.... when you translate it, the game sounds like every other MMO in the last 5 years. You can quest/level solo if you want, but you'll want help for dungeons. And in this case, dungeons aren't personal instances, so you'll end up in the dungeon with other people who happened to wander in there (I imagine there'll still be some sort of "instancing", just to keep down crowding).
And on the TESO forum, I didn't see anything talking about this. Also haven't seen any mentions on Kotaku or RPGamer. /shrug
For me, the most common complaints I saw were that it existed at all - for a large % of TES fans, even being 2-player co-op would be too many players. "TES is a single player franchise, how dare they MMO!", etc. That's died down, mostly the single-player TES folks are just ignoring it.
Guild Wars 2 is hardly uncomplete it just happen to have lot of cool temporary event that actualy spice up your life. Also theres no garantee there wont be expension set like they did with the first Guild Wars. Im still waiting for a new adventure in Cantha and Elona wich bytway they mentionned would be in the game later or in the crystal desert with some new elder dragon we havent fought yet (there are 5 elder dragon yet we so far have only fought and destroyed one)
Id hardly classify Guild Wars 2 as uncomplete. You also stated skyrim was complete on release but it still managed to get several DLC wich actualy makes the game even more complete what is your answer to that?
Provide a link some proff or all we have is your distorted oppinion.....
could be an interesting journey though..
No one on this dev team (or community reps for that matter) appear to be competent or professional in any way.
The first month was okay fun.