There are two separate factions of dungeon runners out there like it or not. There are "speed runners" and there are those who would rather do the dungeon to it's fullest extent. I tend to fall into the latter category and it's frustrating to wind up in a pug group where three people want to speed run it and the other two would rather complete it at a normal pace. It will almost always end up in a wipe or someone rage quitting before the final boss due to differing play styles.
If speed running is going to be considered a legitimate tactic on dungeons why couldn't we have two queue systems? One for Speed Runs and one for Full Runs? Granted I know the queue for full runs would probably have a much longer wait time. Also, once you're into a dungeon during DDs the chest stays unlocked until you complete it whether you finish in the one hour DD slot time or not so, that being said, what's wrong with cutting the DD time down to half an hour and having it come up more often?
i haven't even tried an epic dungeon. honestly, im scared to. with the difficulty gap between the entire dungeon and the final boss in the regular daily dungeon, epic dungeons seem like a waste of time. im in a guild, but dont really know anyone. and honestly, i enjoy playing with myself or with a group of people that i dont associate with. some people are like that. im not asking to have the top tier dungeons/raids easy and farmable by groups of pugs put together by the queue system, but at least scale the difficulty correctly for the daily dungeon so people could actually finish it with a group of people they have never met.
basically scale the final boss closer to the rest of the dungeon. instead of the first 90% of the dungeon something that could be completed with one eye closed and an afk cw, to then reach the final boss that we wipe on numerous times after many discussions on how to actually kill the guy. and on average for me, two wipes at final boss and someone gets pissed and leaves. then guess what, we are done.
its sad really. you may hate the company 'blizzard' cryptic, but lets be real. they are the #1 mmo company for a reason. they have progression and a queue model that actually works. maybe you should park your pride and at least try to emulate them on some of their best working features.
i really really really want you to fix this and make the progression in this game doable by everyone because i love your company and games. i played balders gate many many years ago. that was my first rpg. i really like nw and the play style that comes with it, and i really want to see you succeed. you just need to listen to your players and fix the things that aren't working correctly.
i haven't even tried an epic dungeon. honestly, im scared to. with the difficulty gap between the entire dungeon and the final boss in the regular daily dungeon, epic dungeons seem like a waste of time.
Tier 1 are usually fine (Lair of the Mad Dragon and Grey Wolf Den can be a pain thought. Especially with GWD you either need a good melee to avoid getting hit by the boss' attack that spawns wolves or a couple of CWs), but Tier 2 can be challenging in a PUG, and lots of people leave in PUGs after wiping once or twice on the last boss.....
I do definitely that agree that the final boss should't be so much harder than the rest of the Dungeon though...
Tier 1 are usually fine (Lair of the Mad Dragon and Grey Wolf Den can be a pain thought. Especially with GWD you either need a good melee to avoid getting hit by the boss' attack that spawns wolves or a couple of CWs), but Tier 2 can be challenging in a PUG, and lots of people leave in PUGs after wiping once or twice on the last boss.....
I do definitely that agree that the final boss should't be so much harder than the rest of the Dungeon though...
Most of the t2 final bosses are on par or easier then the previous dungeon bits
Biggest challenge in epics atm seem to be demanding group members with incomplete speed run information wasting more time then you save
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I admit that when I actually played this game, I used to leave dungeons all the time. I played as DC, and for me it rarely took that long to re-queue to some dungeon. When I saw rogues refusing to use DF despite telling them, I always just left. Why is that? Well it is just waste of my time, if one of the people in the group refuses to use their hardest hitting skill. On the other hand I had somewhat of like 95% success rate on dungeons with pugs. I admit this was at the time when playing DC was actually fun, meaning before the big change on aggro/AS. At the time with 4k defense DC I could tank just about anything, but after the change I had no control over anything, and thus I quit the game.
Still I honestly believe if you still want to do successful clears in dungeons with pugs nowadays, you have to lead them. The more you can control the people in your group, the more likely you'll be to succeed. Also the better player you are, showing your knowledge, the more likely people are to follow you, and thus finishing the dungeon with a success.
Death is almost free. It means too little. One crappy injury kit. Put in an xp penalty for dying or even very expensive armor repairs and people will treat the battles with more respect.
Intelligently designed encounters that involved something more than tank-and-spank with endless waves of adds would help a lot with that.
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multani80Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 6Arc User
no and that is one of the main problems. you cannot requeue to replace a dc'd or deserter basically making all that work you did to get to the final boss meaningless.
Well, that is a serious design flaw that needs to be fixed. There is already a queue system adding a requeue shouldn't be difficult.
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silivrenaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 20Arc User
edited July 2013
I agree something needs to be done...but as much as I hate to say it cause I hate leavers, I dont believe they should be penalized. Just the other day I had to leave a dungeon myself, because without anyword a couple started exploiting campfires. I got trapped back at an earlier campfire and of course nobody would come back to help me get back with the group. I couldnt fight through the horde of monsters they left behind on my own.
I hope they had fun taking on the boss with three people as one of the other players was with me and left with me. I would love to join a guild but I am waiting till the servers merge and I can actually join a RP guild...as none seams to exist on Dragon.
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m1nuendMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited July 2013
i haven't even tried an epic dungeon. honestly, im scared to. with the difficulty gap between the entire dungeon and the final boss in the regular daily dungeon, epic dungeons seem like a waste of time. im in a guild, but dont really know anyone. and honestly, i enjoy playing with myself or with a group of people that i dont associate with. some people are like that. im not asking to have the top tier dungeons/raids easy and farmable by groups of pugs put together by the queue system, but at least scale the difficulty correctly for the daily dungeon so people could actually finish it with a group of people they have never met.
basically scale the final boss closer to the rest of the dungeon. instead of the first 90% of the dungeon something that could be completed with one eye closed and an afk cw, to then reach the final boss that we wipe on numerous times after many discussions on how to actually kill the guy. and on average for me, two wipes at final boss and someone gets pissed and leaves. then guess what, we are done.
I was afraid to try the epic dungeons in the beginning as well, especially since I'm a GWF and, at least on the forum, we get a lot of <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> (Perhaps that is changing a little now). But my BF pushed me into it, so I reluctantly agreed.
And last night we managed to slay the Epic Mad Dragon without a CW. (We were still 5 people, just not the mighty CW). ((My gear score isn't high enough for Epic 8300, so I haven't tried those yet)).
Communication is key. I find that when you have reached the boss, people are generally interested in listening to advice from others if that can help them win. Who would want to be uncooperative at last minute to waste hir and everyone else's time?
Saying hi and maybe throw in a few jokes here and there lightens the mood.
Scaling the dungeons would just double the amount of time and potions spent. And sometimes you are just unlucky and die without it meaning you can't take down the last boss. Sometimes it takes a little time to get used to the group.
For instance, the other day we did Cragmire Crypts and we died at the teeth of those jumping spiders. The GF quit after that, but we decided to go ahead without him. The remaining 4 of us finished off the boss.
I have found that the craziest and mind baffling thing in the dungeons is that NOBODY USES THE PUSH TO TALK MIC SYSTEM.
Seriously, I hear people whine about putting this feature into games all the time on many different MMO forums. Here it is, working just fine and an excellent tool to coordinate quickly and NOBODY USES IT. It is asinine....
I don't have problems finishing dungeons but the way everybody rolls Need and the lack of using a perfectly good mic system just leave me confused everyday I play this game. I think most of the issues with completing dungeons comes from players not using the correct tools....
Comments
If speed running is going to be considered a legitimate tactic on dungeons why couldn't we have two queue systems? One for Speed Runs and one for Full Runs? Granted I know the queue for full runs would probably have a much longer wait time. Also, once you're into a dungeon during DDs the chest stays unlocked until you complete it whether you finish in the one hour DD slot time or not so, that being said, what's wrong with cutting the DD time down to half an hour and having it come up more often?
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basically scale the final boss closer to the rest of the dungeon. instead of the first 90% of the dungeon something that could be completed with one eye closed and an afk cw, to then reach the final boss that we wipe on numerous times after many discussions on how to actually kill the guy. and on average for me, two wipes at final boss and someone gets pissed and leaves. then guess what, we are done.
its sad really. you may hate the company 'blizzard' cryptic, but lets be real. they are the #1 mmo company for a reason. they have progression and a queue model that actually works. maybe you should park your pride and at least try to emulate them on some of their best working features.
i really really really want you to fix this and make the progression in this game doable by everyone because i love your company and games. i played balders gate many many years ago. that was my first rpg. i really like nw and the play style that comes with it, and i really want to see you succeed. you just need to listen to your players and fix the things that aren't working correctly.
Tier 1 are usually fine (Lair of the Mad Dragon and Grey Wolf Den can be a pain thought. Especially with GWD you either need a good melee to avoid getting hit by the boss' attack that spawns wolves or a couple of CWs), but Tier 2 can be challenging in a PUG, and lots of people leave in PUGs after wiping once or twice on the last boss.....
I do definitely that agree that the final boss should't be so much harder than the rest of the Dungeon though...
Most of the t2 final bosses are on par or easier then the previous dungeon bits
Biggest challenge in epics atm seem to be demanding group members with incomplete speed run information wasting more time then you save
Still I honestly believe if you still want to do successful clears in dungeons with pugs nowadays, you have to lead them. The more you can control the people in your group, the more likely you'll be to succeed. Also the better player you are, showing your knowledge, the more likely people are to follow you, and thus finishing the dungeon with a success.
Well, that is a serious design flaw that needs to be fixed. There is already a queue system adding a requeue shouldn't be difficult.
I hope they had fun taking on the boss with three people as one of the other players was with me and left with me. I would love to join a guild but I am waiting till the servers merge and I can actually join a RP guild...as none seams to exist on Dragon.
I was afraid to try the epic dungeons in the beginning as well, especially since I'm a GWF and, at least on the forum, we get a lot of <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> (Perhaps that is changing a little now). But my BF pushed me into it, so I reluctantly agreed.
And last night we managed to slay the Epic Mad Dragon without a CW. (We were still 5 people, just not the mighty CW). ((My gear score isn't high enough for Epic 8300, so I haven't tried those yet)).
Communication is key. I find that when you have reached the boss, people are generally interested in listening to advice from others if that can help them win. Who would want to be uncooperative at last minute to waste hir and everyone else's time?
Saying hi and maybe throw in a few jokes here and there lightens the mood.
Scaling the dungeons would just double the amount of time and potions spent. And sometimes you are just unlucky and die without it meaning you can't take down the last boss. Sometimes it takes a little time to get used to the group.
For instance, the other day we did Cragmire Crypts and we died at the teeth of those jumping spiders. The GF quit after that, but we decided to go ahead without him. The remaining 4 of us finished off the boss.
Seriously, I hear people whine about putting this feature into games all the time on many different MMO forums. Here it is, working just fine and an excellent tool to coordinate quickly and NOBODY USES IT. It is asinine....
I don't have problems finishing dungeons but the way everybody rolls Need and the lack of using a perfectly good mic system just leave me confused everyday I play this game. I think most of the issues with completing dungeons comes from players not using the correct tools....