That is your opinion- to me a "perma"-stealth rogue is much easier to counter than a well built and played GWF or GF. Game is fine for just starting apart from the lack of a leavers penalty and the ad reward for losing. Well at least pre-60 its fine.
But that's just your opinion. So doesn't actually change anything to reality.
GWF and GF are counterable, perma-stealth is not. But that's not the point.
The point is "bug"-using people should not be supported and I refuse to play with them.
The game is in trouble already. Don't worry. It starts with bots and ends with bug-using.
LOL. I think we should all take logancaine very srsly after this post, he obviously knows what he's talking about.
David Valtiere, Lvl 70 TR with perfect Lvl 60 gear which I don't want to replace cause nostalgia yo ;_;
No, because you treat only your opinion as fact. Everyone else needs to provide links.
Really? Links? I asked for HAMSTER but not for links.
I cant see where I said my opinion is fact. I think you are making that up. But that just my opinion.
LOL. I think we should all take logancaine very srsly after this post, he obviously knows what he's talking about.
Yes you definitely should. But I don't think anybody will believe you in that, since you are a TR. Nobody likes TRs. Too many bug-users and cheater use to play TR.
for me is easy if i see a premade of a pvp guild i quit not rage quit cause we will never going to win with random people, if i see a cheat/exploit i quit cause it will be not fun to continue playing i think yesterdya i have 2 fun complete matches one in our win and one i our lose but both fights were awesome and the difference was 1000-950 and 988-1000 XD, usually even if your team loses in that way the glory gain is still good and it is fun to play, with premades that usually do not happen the premade team usually destroy all fun cause they already know what to do and always win by huge margins, i am not full equip yet but i know that i can do at least some damage or control over some time, howver premade full equip 5 member destroy me in an instant, so as long as i contnue to see those 2 things (pre-mades and exploits) i will continue retiring during the first 30 seconds to 1 minute of the match, and i learned that just after i started to pvpv on lv 60, full equip it really makes a huge difference
Everything works out in the end . If it hasn't worked out yet, it isn't the end...
Really? Links? I asked for HAMSTER but not for links.
I cant see where I said my opinion is fact. I think you are making that up. But that just my opinion.
True enough, I confused you with some other dude in another thread that would only believe what was in his own head already.
No snipe, honest mistake.
And now before this whole thread ends up in the pits; I don't believe TR's are the epitome of Evil, I gather you do. Let's just agree to severly disagree, alright?
as i am not powerfull enough to continue discussing, however as far as i can tell from experience perma stealt h can be deal with you are able to see them even as GF you can tarjet them best way is lurking strike since it has more distance allowance, however if you move around you will be able to see them and tarjet them at some point so they can be killed, GWF is basically the same,the best to deal with them is once they do the skill that makes them bigger and inmune to control skills just run around you will be hit a couple of times but you will surviveand he will not recover HP, my only current problem is the Inmune Bugs on TR's that made them total inmune and not stealth you can see a lot of post in the forum regarding that and also a couple of vidos, and well the premade vs random teams really suck cause usually the premades have more equip and luive for Pvp the experience to work as a team and know on how to deal with each other problems, i think there should be a separate queu for premadesand another for random pvp players
Everything works out in the end . If it hasn't worked out yet, it isn't the end...
One of the 1st few matches I did 2 guys disconnected, so 2 other just left. That left me alone vs 5. Needless to say I got spawn camped and could not do anything. And I did stay till the end, hoping to reap some reward for effort at least, and I got ZERO points.
The system as is does not encourage players to stay in an uneven match. This can be fixed by offering incentives.
Any player who stays on the losing side should get at least SOME points, no matter the outcome.
When one team loses a player, whether they leave or disconnect, those who stay should get a 50% increase in minimum amount as a base point reward if they lose as a result of being down a player or more.
For example, the base points for losing should be 100 for loss and 300 for a win. Any other additions to that reward for things such as damage, kills, and nodes caps will be added to the base reward.
If red team loses a player for more than 1 min and they lose, and all others fight it out, their base reward is now 150 points. If two players leave the base goes to 200 points. If 3 leave and 2 stay till the end the base reward becomes 250 points.
That's my input. I highly favor some kind of reward system that encourages players to go in and stay in the fight.
A system of punishment such as a debuff against players will only lower the pool of available players and drive up que times. The carrot is better than the stick in this case.
Yes I'm serious and I play an almost-perma-stealth TR, that's how I know these counters work.
Again, but I'm afraid you'll just ignore it again, stealth is NOT invisibility, TR's can be targeted (and killed, dazed, choked, iceknifed and whatnot) while stealthed.
I'll grant you though, CW's are worst at it, and so they make excellent TR targets.
Thats why CWs leave. We dont have a counter to you. If we stay to look for you then COS chews us down to nothing. Persoanlly i think perma is a broken mechanic. I have stayed in some few matches with a perma but mostly i vote with my leave button.
We have to deal with stealthed cos spamming rogues every match but ones you have no chance of seeing. Just no.
I don't abandon fights against premades UNLESS the following conditions are met:
1) There are bots on my team
2) There are bots on my team
3) There are stupid people repeatedly running one at a time to 2 instead of capping the other unguarded points.
4) Oh wait, number 3 was the stupid bot programmers having their bots run to 2 nonstop.
5) There are bots on my team.
6) There are TRs abusing the CoS and IoC duration (they set the duration for "infinite", pop IoC out of Stealth = takes no damage or CCs the entire match) & cooldown timer (cooldown on CoS is set to 0 so it's instant recharge) hacks to make them invincible and able to throw endless CoS daggers.
I also had a match yesterday where 3/4 of my health came off with no one around me at all. No animations either. I then continued to take damage at random times during the match but not as high until i was killed.
One of the 1st few matches I did 2 guys disconnected, so 2 other just left. That left me alone vs 5. Needless to say I got spawn camped and could not do anything. And I did stay till the end, hoping to reap some reward for effort at least, and I got ZERO points.
The system as is does not encourage players to stay in an uneven match. This can be fixed by offering incentives.
Any player who stays on the losing side should get at least SOME points, no matter the outcome.
When one team loses a player, whether they leave or disconnect, those who stay should get a 50% increase in minimum amount as a base point reward if they lose as a result of being down a player or more.
For example, the base points for losing should be 100 for loss and 300 for a win. Any other additions to that reward for things such as damage, kills, and nodes caps will be added to the base reward.
If red team loses a player for more than 1 min and they lose, and all others fight it out, their base reward is now 150 points. If two players leave the base goes to 200 points. If 3 leave and 2 stay till the end the base reward becomes 250 points.
That's my input. I highly favor some kind of reward system that encourages players to go in and stay in the fight.
A system of punishment such as a debuff against players will only lower the pool of available players and drive up que times. The carrot is better than the stick in this case.
The reward for losing was taken out so that people didn't just afk through a game (afking was huge before the reward nerf). However, they need to make the daily rewarded on win only to finish the job.
The issue you describe is due to people quitting so the only logical solution is to enforce a leavers penalty- then you would have had your game (ie you would likely not have gotten stranded on your own if there had been a leavers penalty) : and you do get rewards if you participate even if you lose, you just don't get a freebee award for doing nothing.
Perma stealth build rogues have no chance against me.
Ones that build for pure dps however can kill me.
So they seem like a weaker build imo when it comes to duels. They are strong for back capping unsuspecting teams, but smarter teams can counter them well.
You kinda did this to yourself, im sorry to have to say it to you, rushed to 60? Rushed all content? Exploited through all content? have all the best gear & enchants? im just guessing here? but i am right aint i? and now people wont fight you, i have a suggestion! start a new char and put on tier1 gear with max rank 5 gems in it, then now you would be on par with the majority of players! and i bet you they will fight you, problem solved!
Compare it to sports, if you just started boxing would you fight someone as good as Muhammad Ali? now imagine fighting him wearing Greater tenebrous, greater soulforged, perfect vorpal, i guessed so! you would back off.
Had a full 5 man premade group quit after losing the first battle to my premade team. That is the only time I've got angry over people leaving. I totally understand pug groups leaving, they have no chance and get no glory. All I know is that if my group got smashed in the first fight against any team we'd be happy that we finally found players with skill. Hard to get better when you play pugs all day.
Not sure if/when there will be a server merge but are any guilds scheduling premade fights on the test server?
I don't abandon fights against premades UNLESS the following conditions are met:
1) There are bots on my team
2) There are bots on my team
3) There are stupid people repeatedly running one at a time to 2 instead of capping the other unguarded points.
4) Oh wait, number 3 was the stupid bot programmers having their bots run to 2 nonstop.
5) There are bots on my team.
6) There are TRs abusing the CoS and IoC duration (they set the duration for "infinite", pop IoC out of Stealth = takes no damage or CCs the entire match) & cooldown timer (cooldown on CoS is set to 0 so it's instant recharge) hacks to make them invincible and able to throw endless CoS daggers.
There is no such encounter called IoC btw , learn how the encounters are called before crying on teh forums brosiah .
" We live in an age of the cheaply made, disposable, high priced junk. " - theunwarshed
Had a full 5 man premade group quit after losing the first battle to my premade team. That is the only time I've got angry over people leaving. I totally understand pug groups leaving, they have no chance and get no glory. All I know is that if my group got smashed in the first fight against any team we'd be happy that we finally found players with skill. Hard to get better when you play pugs all day.
Not sure if/when there will be a server merge but are any guilds scheduling premade fights on the test server?
U sound like a very reasonable person. U have no place on these forums. JK
The reward for losing was taken out so that people didn't just afk through a game (afking was huge before the reward nerf). However, they need to make the daily rewarded on win only to finish the job.
The issue you describe is due to people quitting so the only logical solution is to enforce a leavers penalty- then you would have had your game (ie you would likely not have gotten stranded on your own if there had been a leavers penalty) : and you do get rewards if you participate even if you lose, you just don't get a freebee award for doing nothing.
No they need to fix the **** system and finally put some effort into PvP.
In the last ~50 random pvp matches I did, at least 2+ players have rage quit due to how well we were doing.
It leaves us against a few players, who often hide in there spawn as they realise they have no chance, and us to be bored while they reap the benefits of leaving and joining a new match against probably lesser opponents (probably bots).
It's a horribly uncaring thing to do, and shows complete and utter disrespect for others. As you waste 5 players time to improve your own. Is your time more important than 5 players ? How ? Why?
Answer: It's not. You're a mean, uncaring, inconsiderate person if you do that.
Personally would never give up, I'd fight 1v5 to the last breath.
So please, to anyone with a conscious: Never do this, if you did in the past and didn't understand how upsetting and unfair it is to other, please reconsider what your doing to teh community.
I mean my very last match against I think a spanish guild - full 5 man perform, I queued up with only 1 - girl in my guild on a cleric. We did happen to wind up with a third guildy random as my guild is big and we love pvp.. But yea, other 2 were random.
After we gained the first 100 points, the entire enemy team rage quit in unison.
I mean Crush It is a top pvp guild, I can understand there fear of us.. But thats just so unfair to us.
We send them a tell asking why, there response:
1 guy DC'd. So because 1 guy had poor internet, the guy who made that call: You wasted not only 5 of our time, but your other 3 guildies who may have wanted to continue. You are not a good person.
Afterwards we even offered to requeue and do a 5v5 when there DC'd player got back.
There reponse:
Yes.
We waited 10 minutes for them to form.
Once the other guy got back on, they declined and did gauntlgrym.
Wasted 15 minutes of our time. we got nothing out of it.
Please respect each others time in pvp. Everyones time is valuable, and yours isn't more so than others.
(ps devs: You could easily fix this by debuffing players who rage quit - Set them at -100% glory gain for the next 24 hours, and -10% damage delt in the next pvp match for deserting)
Are you serious? There's no punishment for leaving at the moment so the obvious thing to do is leave if you find your team getting destroyed, or if 2 of your team have left. Even if they DID implement some kind of solution to this, the whole team would just sit up in their spawn anyway. Get a grip of reality.
The actual serious problem in pvp is bots. WHEN ARE THEY GOING TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT BOTS?!
i think there should be a separate queu for premadesand another for random pvp players
I couldn't agree with this more. Premades should play premades; perhaps they should actually implement some kind of Guild PvP for premades, leaving the random queue for everyone else. Maybe a max party size of 2 can join the queue?
0
pickygamerMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Are you serious? There's no punishment for leaving at the moment so the obvious thing to do is leave if you find your team getting destroyed, or if 2 of your team have left. Even if they DID implement some kind of solution to this, the whole team would just sit up in their spawn anyway. Get a grip of reality.
The actual serious problem in pvp is bots. WHEN ARE THEY GOING TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT BOTS?!
OMG yes bots.....ive been keeping a list and just leaving those matches that i know are bots....and they all seem to be cw's.
Though I did have some fun watching our cw bot and the enemy cw bot battle it out.....over and over and over.......
50+ matches, 2 at leas have rage quit.
No, lemonade stand might be good, I dunno, I could care less. But say my team I am on (usually full of pugs) got ran the **** over. 3 of them have 0 points. I cant blame them for leaving. Lets say they stay... cryptic says ok... you have 0 points for being in the match. You get no rewards, because cryptic says you didn't try.
You want them to stay and wasted minutes and time of their life.. to get no reward?
It isn't rage quitting. You were only secondary tot he equation, and the least important.
Them not getting any benefit from trying, from participating, is whats important.
Cryptic ****ed everyone over even on unbalanced matches, and that's why they are leaving in most cases.
So for the love of god, get off your high horse and realize whats going on man
Lets say they stay... cryptic says ok... you have 0 points for being in the match. You get no rewards, because cryptic says you didn't try.
That's something too, I tried to make something out of a hopeless team (bot, afkers, quitters) and even though I put a lot of effort into it: 0 reward.
I do like however how the GM's fairly quickly at least respond with a mail, so they do take it seriously. Won't get rid of the bots overnight, but the more reports people make, the faster they go.
0
helgoland123456Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 11Arc User
edited July 2013
I came here from World of Tanks an there they have 15 vs. 15 matches. Yes, there are bots, afks and the like.
But with 15 players on each side, the effect is not so severe.
Next thing ist that you cant join with a full group. The Maximum are 3 players in a premade team. You want something bigger you have an alternative by joining a game where only full companies of 15 tanks are allowed.
So you exclude entire premade teams from the random games while still allowing two or three friends to join up. Wargaming refused to make bigger platoons because they would have too much impact.
And the matchmaker of WoT always try to match similar number of platoon againt each other.
Yes, its not perfect - WoT also has flaws.
But i think PW could learn from WG:
Bigger Arenas with bigger groups. Why not 15 vs 15 and only 3 man teams allowed like in WoT?
And give Lemonade and friends the option to join in full premade matches.
Becaue in my opinon the bots / afks are not the real problem. If all bots would be split up evenly, it would be irrelevant.
If there are 3 bots on my team and 3 bots on the enemy team, things are even. But 3 bots in one team and a premade team on the other side thats a pain in the a...
So my vote would go for bigger maps and teams.
With 15 players on each side there should be enough "playing players" left to make things interesting. And only small premade teams (2-3 players each) with an equivalent on each side.
And if the guys from lemonade cant find opponents they could join in small groups and be confident that they will most likely face each other since group would be evenly divided between the team.
Of course this would mean longer waiting times in the queues. But wouldnt this be worth the price?
Oh - and since i am already dreaming - i would like pvp-matches that are objective driven like the ones in unreal tournament. I forgot what they were called - the ones where you had to escort the car or board the railway
Once again in every thread that pops up about this. No. Penalties are bad for many many many reasons I've listed in other threads. Short form, Bots, Bots, Bots, Oh yeah 3 bots on your team at once. Happened last night as a matter of fact. I like my 39 pvp twink and leave at 950 points each round, no thanks on lockout timers. D/C's would = Lockouts and that's bad mmmkay, Enchants & premades can ruin a good round of pugging. Gearscore per slot ever equipped and premade vs premade queueing would need to be fixed first and the xp reward removed from lowbie pvp. That's just the tip of the iceberg.. but no way there should ever be a penalty for leaving in this game. Penalties just hurt innocent players more and cause people to leave the game rather than just a round.
Its not rage quiting. Its called moving on to another PvP match to get glory. If you stay then you are HAMSTER. If you leave then you get more glory. Kinda a no brainer.
My time since time is the most precious thing is more valuable then 5 players time. I don't know them.
There is nothing to fear from crush it or any other guild premade. /leave is just a hard counter and you get no glory. so you are owned.
This is a pretty bad troll thread I enjoyed it. Time to leave a match when I see crush it so I can ROFL.
Comments
But that's just your opinion. So doesn't actually change anything to reality.
Ah, so only your opinion is fact, in your reality. Sorry dude, but you're making it real hard to have a decent conversation with.
Why? Because I don't share your opinion?
No, because you treat only your opinion as fact. Everyone else needs to provide links.
LOL. I think we should all take logancaine very srsly after this post, he obviously knows what he's talking about.
Really? Links? I asked for HAMSTER but not for links.
I cant see where I said my opinion is fact. I think you are making that up. But that just my opinion.
Yes you definitely should. But I don't think anybody will believe you in that, since you are a TR. Nobody likes TRs. Too many bug-users and cheater use to play TR.
Dont feed the bots.
True enough, I confused you with some other dude in another thread that would only believe what was in his own head already.
No snipe, honest mistake.
And now before this whole thread ends up in the pits; I don't believe TR's are the epitome of Evil, I gather you do. Let's just agree to severly disagree, alright?
The system as is does not encourage players to stay in an uneven match. This can be fixed by offering incentives.
Any player who stays on the losing side should get at least SOME points, no matter the outcome.
When one team loses a player, whether they leave or disconnect, those who stay should get a 50% increase in minimum amount as a base point reward if they lose as a result of being down a player or more.
For example, the base points for losing should be 100 for loss and 300 for a win. Any other additions to that reward for things such as damage, kills, and nodes caps will be added to the base reward.
If red team loses a player for more than 1 min and they lose, and all others fight it out, their base reward is now 150 points. If two players leave the base goes to 200 points. If 3 leave and 2 stay till the end the base reward becomes 250 points.
That's my input. I highly favor some kind of reward system that encourages players to go in and stay in the fight.
A system of punishment such as a debuff against players will only lower the pool of available players and drive up que times. The carrot is better than the stick in this case.
Thats why CWs leave. We dont have a counter to you. If we stay to look for you then COS chews us down to nothing. Persoanlly i think perma is a broken mechanic. I have stayed in some few matches with a perma but mostly i vote with my leave button.
We have to deal with stealthed cos spamming rogues every match but ones you have no chance of seeing. Just no.
I also had a match yesterday where 3/4 of my health came off with no one around me at all. No animations either. I then continued to take damage at random times during the match but not as high until i was killed.
The reward for losing was taken out so that people didn't just afk through a game (afking was huge before the reward nerf). However, they need to make the daily rewarded on win only to finish the job.
The issue you describe is due to people quitting so the only logical solution is to enforce a leavers penalty- then you would have had your game (ie you would likely not have gotten stranded on your own if there had been a leavers penalty) : and you do get rewards if you participate even if you lose, you just don't get a freebee award for doing nothing.
You kinda did this to yourself, im sorry to have to say it to you, rushed to 60? Rushed all content? Exploited through all content? have all the best gear & enchants? im just guessing here? but i am right aint i? and now people wont fight you, i have a suggestion! start a new char and put on tier1 gear with max rank 5 gems in it, then now you would be on par with the majority of players! and i bet you they will fight you, problem solved!
Compare it to sports, if you just started boxing would you fight someone as good as Muhammad Ali? now imagine fighting him wearing Greater tenebrous, greater soulforged, perfect vorpal, i guessed so! you would back off.
Not sure if/when there will be a server merge but are any guilds scheduling premade fights on the test server?
There is no such encounter called IoC btw , learn how the encounters are called before crying on teh forums brosiah .
U sound like a very reasonable person. U have no place on these forums. JK
No they need to fix the **** system and finally put some effort into PvP.
Are you serious? There's no punishment for leaving at the moment so the obvious thing to do is leave if you find your team getting destroyed, or if 2 of your team have left. Even if they DID implement some kind of solution to this, the whole team would just sit up in their spawn anyway. Get a grip of reality.
The actual serious problem in pvp is bots. WHEN ARE THEY GOING TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT BOTS?!
I couldn't agree with this more. Premades should play premades; perhaps they should actually implement some kind of Guild PvP for premades, leaving the random queue for everyone else. Maybe a max party size of 2 can join the queue?
OMG yes bots.....ive been keeping a list and just leaving those matches that i know are bots....and they all seem to be cw's.
Though I did have some fun watching our cw bot and the enemy cw bot battle it out.....over and over and over.......
No, lemonade stand might be good, I dunno, I could care less. But say my team I am on (usually full of pugs) got ran the **** over. 3 of them have 0 points. I cant blame them for leaving. Lets say they stay... cryptic says ok... you have 0 points for being in the match. You get no rewards, because cryptic says you didn't try.
You want them to stay and wasted minutes and time of their life.. to get no reward?
It isn't rage quitting. You were only secondary tot he equation, and the least important.
Them not getting any benefit from trying, from participating, is whats important.
Cryptic ****ed everyone over even on unbalanced matches, and that's why they are leaving in most cases.
So for the love of god, get off your high horse and realize whats going on man
That's something too, I tried to make something out of a hopeless team (bot, afkers, quitters) and even though I put a lot of effort into it: 0 reward.
I do like however how the GM's fairly quickly at least respond with a mail, so they do take it seriously. Won't get rid of the bots overnight, but the more reports people make, the faster they go.
But with 15 players on each side, the effect is not so severe.
Next thing ist that you cant join with a full group. The Maximum are 3 players in a premade team. You want something bigger you have an alternative by joining a game where only full companies of 15 tanks are allowed.
So you exclude entire premade teams from the random games while still allowing two or three friends to join up. Wargaming refused to make bigger platoons because they would have too much impact.
And the matchmaker of WoT always try to match similar number of platoon againt each other.
Yes, its not perfect - WoT also has flaws.
But i think PW could learn from WG:
Bigger Arenas with bigger groups. Why not 15 vs 15 and only 3 man teams allowed like in WoT?
And give Lemonade and friends the option to join in full premade matches.
Becaue in my opinon the bots / afks are not the real problem. If all bots would be split up evenly, it would be irrelevant.
If there are 3 bots on my team and 3 bots on the enemy team, things are even. But 3 bots in one team and a premade team on the other side thats a pain in the a...
So my vote would go for bigger maps and teams.
With 15 players on each side there should be enough "playing players" left to make things interesting. And only small premade teams (2-3 players each) with an equivalent on each side.
And if the guys from lemonade cant find opponents they could join in small groups and be confident that they will most likely face each other since group would be evenly divided between the team.
Of course this would mean longer waiting times in the queues. But wouldnt this be worth the price?
Oh - and since i am already dreaming - i would like pvp-matches that are objective driven like the ones in unreal tournament. I forgot what they were called - the ones where you had to escort the car or board the railway
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Campaign: The Battle of Neverwinter - NWS-DOQXFA4ZD
Prologue: A not so simple plan - NW-DCJG75B9D
This ^ /thread #dealwithit