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Kiting/Pushing/Ignoring Adds
jstnthms
Member Posts: 2 Arc User
I currently play a PvE based Control Wizard (CW). I would really like to lean towards DPS on my character, except every group expects a CW to stack Recovery and handle an obscene amount of adds by throwing them off edges. This requires me to remove all DPS skills from my bar, and thus never do any DPS. (I think throwing mobs off of cliffs/edges is annoying and boring, and should be removed from the game.)
If you can't toss the adds off of the edge, then you are left with kiting or pretty much ignoring them, like in the Hrimnir and Karrundax fights, respectively.
I would like to see the amount of adds in fights drastically reduced. Then, instead of having to knock the mobs off of the platform, or kite or ignore them completely, the group would either have to kill these small number of recurring adds in a certain amount of time (a few seconds or so), or control the adds, to avoid a seriously negative consequence.
Examples (I might mess up the names of mobs and the effects of abilities off the top of my head):
FH: You should have to contend with one Rimestone Golem and a couple Trolls at a time. The Golem's AoE knockback( or knockdown) should increase vastly in radius each time it is used. Therefore making it necessary to kill the Golem rather than kite it.
Karrundax: Dragonshields(?) should be easier to kill, but stun/knockdown players while protecting the Priests that would be healing the boss. Players would have to quickly take out the Dragonshields, then be forced to kill/control the Priest (because they shouldn't be able to out-DPS the heal).
Spell Plague: The amphibious type mob that does a cone knockback should have its cone and knockback increased each time it uses it. (Much like the afformentioned Golem's knockback.) So, you could try avoiding this mob's knockback temporarily, but would eventually have to kill the mob. The other humanoid type mobs should build some sort of enrage/berserker stack with each hit they dish out so that they should be taken care of immediately.
I haven't got to do many other fights (mostly because no one takes anyone without "experience"), but Mad Dragon and Spider Temple are examples of better designed fights: you can't kite/push/ignore adds in these fights.
If you can't toss the adds off of the edge, then you are left with kiting or pretty much ignoring them, like in the Hrimnir and Karrundax fights, respectively.
I would like to see the amount of adds in fights drastically reduced. Then, instead of having to knock the mobs off of the platform, or kite or ignore them completely, the group would either have to kill these small number of recurring adds in a certain amount of time (a few seconds or so), or control the adds, to avoid a seriously negative consequence.
Examples (I might mess up the names of mobs and the effects of abilities off the top of my head):
FH: You should have to contend with one Rimestone Golem and a couple Trolls at a time. The Golem's AoE knockback( or knockdown) should increase vastly in radius each time it is used. Therefore making it necessary to kill the Golem rather than kite it.
Karrundax: Dragonshields(?) should be easier to kill, but stun/knockdown players while protecting the Priests that would be healing the boss. Players would have to quickly take out the Dragonshields, then be forced to kill/control the Priest (because they shouldn't be able to out-DPS the heal).
Spell Plague: The amphibious type mob that does a cone knockback should have its cone and knockback increased each time it uses it. (Much like the afformentioned Golem's knockback.) So, you could try avoiding this mob's knockback temporarily, but would eventually have to kill the mob. The other humanoid type mobs should build some sort of enrage/berserker stack with each hit they dish out so that they should be taken care of immediately.
I haven't got to do many other fights (mostly because no one takes anyone without "experience"), but Mad Dragon and Spider Temple are examples of better designed fights: you can't kite/push/ignore adds in these fights.
Post edited by jstnthms on
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And the fact that you can in some dungeons and not in others just shows you there's something for everyone. I do note the ones where you can't fling off enemies the number of mobs is at least "reasonable" compared to places like Pirates Lair which just has a stupid amount. The ones I've seen anyway since I skipped some dungeons while leveling up.
If you like fights where you get to kill stuff rather than blow it off a cliff.. Make friends with a good GF or GWF.. they love your singularities. In my guild runs, we typically have the DC and CW looking after adds, while a tank keeps us alive or a GWF helps the CW AoE the mobs to small particles. Leaving a TR and another DPS/tank to the boss,
I personally find kiting a dumb mechanic. I don't mean the moving and dodging stuff, avoiding hits and red circles. I mean running round in a circle screaming get that mob off me kind of kiting.
You're not a war wizard. You are a control wizard, your primary role is crowd control with your secondary role being damage. The only two classes that currently have a primary role of dps is the TR and the GWF. Everything else is dps secondary.
From what I understand, the next caster class to come out (warlock or something) will be primary role of dps. Unfortunately, your understanding of your class is skewed slightly.
On a side note, i wish the devs removed this stupid dps meter at the end of every instances, it ruins the game. Tanks don't want to tank and dps, wizards don't want to control and dps... That makes pug T2 runs a real pain.
CONTROL wizard.
CONTROL wizard.
CONTROL wizard.
CONTROL wizard.
CONTROL wizard.
CONTROL wizard.
You are NOT supposed to do significant DPS as a CONTROL wizard. Your goal is to provide buffs, debuffs, and crowd control. DPS is the absolute last thing on your list of things to do. Want to do DPS? Make a rogue.
They seem to think people are complaining it's too hard and they'll learn to play better over time, but actually most people are complaining it's too boring and tedious, and that won't get any better by playing more.
Even the new module sounds like it's still going to be built on this template, only with adds coming out of the walls and floor (like the tentacles in dread vault). I don't think it's financially viable for them to create a different mechanic for each boss, so there's never going to be anything other than this.
What are you talking about? Adds make the game fun to play. Without adds it's just rogue online.
I'm not saying they should be reduced and that's it, I'm saying most people would like some more variety in the gameplay (not just adds, adds and more adds) but it's unlikely because of the reasons mentioned.
Well i'm sure it's not about money, they have quite a nice amount of people working on this game. It's just that without adds, a dungeon is just a matter of dps. Take 5 rogues, zerg the boss, dodge red stuff, win. Not the game i'd like to play. If "different" boss mechanics are created you'll see dozens of threads complaining about it, saying it's just a zerg fest aand all about dps, and they would be right.
People love complaining, but i think complaining about adds is better than complaining about the uselessness of support classes. Adds are mandatory to give them something to do. You can't escape this logic, if you don't want the game to be all about rogues and dps, the devs have to make all boss fight something like a boss + adds.
I'm not sure that I agree. I have played plenty of other MMOs with bosses that don't rely on add spam all the time, where the fight was interesting. Hell, there were plenty that used adds in a more creative or defined way than just drowning you in pure quantity and sameness.
It's a shame, as interesting multiphase bosses would really add to this game. The dungeons often look fantastic, and the skillset for players is interesting, there is a lot of synergy possible. However, constant tiring add spam with little or no structure is just tedious. At least multiphase bosses involve learning some sort of choreography; more defined mechanics cause a sort of dance that becomes less clumsy and more fluid with practise. Add zergs with nothing more interesting governing them just seem like noise.
This /thread
If you took every class' name literally then Trickster Rogues should spend most of their time "fooling" the boss, and Great Weapon Fighters would be fighting "great weapons".
I didn't say I refuse to control mobs. I hate having to specifically handle mobs by pushing them off of edges, like in Spell Plague. I do what needs to be done, but it's just boring as all hell.
Pretty soon CW numbers will dwindle. Then what? This problem was witnessed in the most popular & successful MMO of all time. It started out with Mages in WoW being the only in-combat form of consistent mob control. Eventually, there was a need to give control spells to every class. When history repeats itself it's never a good thing.
Not when that wizard has Shield and Repel on their bars and is forced to push adds off of the edges.
Do you think grouping up adds with Arcane Singularity to toss them off the edge with Shield over and over isn't a "tedious slog"?
This is an MMO. The only thing to do in an MMO is to conquer everything and acquire the best gear. I'm not going to run my "favourite" dungeon over and over. I'm going to quit the game. (And I know y'all don't care. You're right! It's not your problem when a player leaves a game, it's the devs' problem.)