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Is a DPS cleric viable as DPS role in groups?

rebel230rebel230 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 4 Arc User
edited January 2014 in The Temple
I had an awesome dps cleric back in the single player game, was a lot of fun, although we did get a mace. I was wondering if you can make a solid, group viable dps based cleric here?
Post edited by rebel230 on
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  • faeriestormfaeriestorm Member Posts: 460 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    rebel230 wrote: »
    I had an awesome dps cleric back in the single player game, was a lot of fun, although we did get a mace. I was wondering if you can make a solid, group viable dps based cleric here?

    I have built a dps cleric and she does solid dps in groups. The only class that can reliable beat her in damage is the GWF. Also the party gets some bonus heals from her crits and soothing light spot heals if someone takes spike damage. Which in turn makes me do more damage XD
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • gtxinsanegtxinsane Member Posts: 116 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    I'm a big fan of the DPS cleric. BUT, the damage meter at the end of the dungeon gives very little useful information, because the damage is off trash mobs (Divine Searing Light does a f*ck ton damage when a CW uses Singu). Trash mob clearing is only useful in dungeons that feature very little cliffs to throw **** over (Karrun, FH), even then you can easilly bring a second CW to permanently lockdown troublesome trash mobs. That's why GWFs are still not that needed in dungeons, because a mob you can mow down can usually be just thrown of a cliff or permanently controlled.

    DPS Cleric in PvP is a hoot though, you basically play like a glass cannon CW, without the 3 blinks and permanent control. You do have multiple slows, and a daily that is bad *** though.
    Gabriel Angelfire - Devoted Cleric // Karguk the Impaler - Great Weapon Fighter // Zephalyne - Control Wizard
    PVP: How to make your life less miserable as a Devoted Clerics -- Still in it's Unfinished Glory
    Dragon
  • justkazjustkaz Member Posts: 67
    edited June 2013
    DPS Clerics can pump out tons of damage. One of the highest damage class in the game. However, it's all AoE damage on trash mobs, so it's very misleading. Although, it's not as misleading as CWs who damage mobs before knocking them off ledges, so they get every mob's life bar full of damage added to their meters.
  • gtxinsanegtxinsane Member Posts: 116 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    Oh, before I forget, we're also at the bottom when it comes to Single Target DPS. The only thing we could potentially out damage are full tank GFs (next to useless), un-geared sentinel GWFs, and Recovery based CWs (the damage they accumulate is mostly from falling damage).
    Gabriel Angelfire - Devoted Cleric // Karguk the Impaler - Great Weapon Fighter // Zephalyne - Control Wizard
    PVP: How to make your life less miserable as a Devoted Clerics -- Still in it's Unfinished Glory
    Dragon
  • tyrtallowtyrtallow Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 747 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Bottomline, we're not a DPS class. You could make a cleric with good DPS (that's what virtuous is about) but even virtuous' damage buffs proc reliably only when you have heals slotted.
    You there. New to the game? Feeling overwhelmed? Maybe you think getting to end-game is impossible for a casual player like yourself, or maybe you just need to be around a community that helps each other stay sane and competitive with the latest news, current trends, random chitchat and most of all LEGIT (that is, we try to keep things fair) gameplay. If you don't mind being around quirky people and the rare occasional drama (one of our prominent TR members is apparently a mafia godfather) join nw_legit_community at http://www.nwlegitcommunity.shivtr.com/forum_threads/2330542.
  • faeriestormfaeriestorm Member Posts: 460 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    tyrtallow wrote: »
    Bottomline, we're not a DPS class. You could make a cleric with good DPS (that's what virtuous is about) but even virtuous' damage buffs proc reliably only when you have heals slotted.

    Actually not just use soothing light enough and it can proc rising hope and cycle of change ;)
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • tyrtallowtyrtallow Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 747 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    But that introduces another problem: using up your divine power pips for Soothing Light vs using them to power up your encounter powers, most of which are unimpressive outside of divine mode. In the end you'd still be trying to balance healing and DPS.
    You there. New to the game? Feeling overwhelmed? Maybe you think getting to end-game is impossible for a casual player like yourself, or maybe you just need to be around a community that helps each other stay sane and competitive with the latest news, current trends, random chitchat and most of all LEGIT (that is, we try to keep things fair) gameplay. If you don't mind being around quirky people and the rare occasional drama (one of our prominent TR members is apparently a mafia godfather) join nw_legit_community at http://www.nwlegitcommunity.shivtr.com/forum_threads/2330542.
  • lerapisolerapiso Member Posts: 85
    edited July 2013
    I was wondering if you can make a solid, group viable dps based cleric here?

    Yes, highest debuff potential in the game
  • kattefjaeskattefjaes Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 2,270 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    lerapiso wrote: »
    Yes, highest debuff potential in the game

    Really? Vizier set bonus+mastery Conduit Of Ice+Ray Of Enfeeblement would like to have a word.
  • adozuadozu Member Posts: 477 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    problem is: if you spec your cleric for full DPS in pve you have a character that can handle trash but not as good as a CW and can deal single target damage but not as good as a TR, in short you have a character that's always inferior to its alternatives.

    the way to go is a hybrid DPS/support if you want that role, then even if your dps isn't as high as other players you are bringing something more than just numbers to the party.

    TL: DR go dps if you like but keep astral shield in your tab.
  • lerapisolerapiso Member Posts: 85
    edited July 2013
    kattefjaes wrote: »
    Really? Vizier set bonus+mastery Conduit Of Ice+Ray Of Enfeeblement would like to have a word.

    Can you beat 50% dmg buff and 70% defense debuff ?
    No, not even close.
  • kattefjaeskattefjaes Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 2,270 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    lerapiso wrote: »
    Can you beat 50% dmg buff and 70% defense debuff ?
    No, not even close.

    In reality, on all the mobs all the time for the entire party, while still topping DPS charts and providing tons of CC? Didn't think so. Thanks for playing. Dream on.
  • lerapisolerapiso Member Posts: 85
    edited July 2013
    kattefjaes wrote: »
    In reality, on all the mobs all the time for the entire party, while still topping DPS charts and providing tons of CC? Didn't think so. Thanks for playing. Dream on.

    Are you stupid ? We talked about buff/debuff potential, and now, "this", what's wrong with you ? Top lel ...
    But yeah, DC have the best buffs and debuffs of the game, really high AoE damage if the CW spam sing, and single dps close to TR, sorry son :(
  • adozuadozu Member Posts: 477 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    single dps close to TR only if the TR sucks or the enemy goes down so fast you don't have time to build up bleed... nothing the cleric can do goes even close to a lurker-boosted bleed. and i say that as a player that has both a pve specced rogue and a dps specced cleric.

    i can do ok damage to single target or ok damage to groups and bring utility with high prophet set debuff and astral shield, but as far as boss busting goes that's just not going to happen.
  • kattefjaeskattefjaes Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 2,270 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    lerapiso wrote: »
    Are you stupid ? We talked about buff/debuff potential, and now, "this", what's wrong with you ? Top lel ...
    But yeah, DC have the best buffs and debuffs of the game, really high AoE damage if the CW spam sing, and single dps close to TR, sorry son :(

    Wow, that's some self-delusion coupled with inept ad-hom right there. I suspect that this says more about the quality of your argument than anything else, while simultaneously giving powerful indicators about what you're like to group with.

    Not even close. I'm not sure what you're smoking, but it certainly seems to bring a hefty cognitive impairment debuff.
  • lerapisolerapiso Member Posts: 85
    edited July 2013
    adozu wrote: »
    single dps close to TR only if the TR sucks or the enemy goes down so fast you don't have time to build up bleed... nothing the cleric can do goes even close to a lurker-boosted bleed. and i say that as a player that has both a pve specced rogue and a dps specced cleric.

    i can do ok damage to single target or ok damage to groups and bring utility with high prophet set debuff and astral shield, but as far as boss busting goes that's just not going to happen.

    From im experience, you can beat lowest geared TR, and being close to the better geared ones, but if you play with AS, you're support, not DPS.
  • adozuadozu Member Posts: 477 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    from my experience (as a nearly top geared TR) pure dps clerics can hardly close in to 50% of my damage at the end of the dungeon and that's counting trash so single target boss is more like 1/4.

    if you play your cleric FULL dps in my opinion you're wasting a party slot, hence why i think a DPS/support hybrid is much better. try to take a pure dps cleric anywhere beyond t1 and tell me if you think you're really making a difference.
  • gtxinsanegtxinsane Member Posts: 116 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    Divine Glow 3 grants a 15% Buff value to people in it's AoE. IF you get 5 in it, it's a 75% DPS increase for the whole party, which is always cool.

    Disciple of Divine Lore grants 10%, Cycle of Change grants UP TO 10% and ONLY on encounters. Both feats require you to slot Healer's Lore which IMO is a waste (but unfortunately needed) in a DPS cleric's personal power bar, not to mention only affect yourself. So arguably you can reach UP TO 20% with feats for yourself, and 15% more from Divine Glow for a total of 35%. You can probably slot in some ar-pen to get some extra shred going (10-20%, 1-2k ar-pen) at the risk sacrificing critical/power. You also get an extra 40 damage per 1000 power (25pow=1dmg), and at around 5k power with linked spirit you can get an extra 1250 for a whopping 50 extra damage (WOOT). All this alone. Now you can get up to 75% more DPS for your party for a 60-75% uptime with DGlow. Assuming you can coordinate well enough with your party to stand in the small circle. At most you can get it off 3 people reliably for a total of 45% DPS buff at 60-70% uptime.

    For the debuffs, High Prophet (single target at 30%), Divine Glow (15%, AoE), Prophecy of Doom(15% Single Target) and Nimbus of Change (10% AoE)) So where did the 15% go? Nimbus of Change has a 5 second uptime (9-10s down, 30-35% up), DGlow has 9s up (4-6s down, 60-70% up).

    It looks all good on paper, until you realize you need a well organized team, plus a second DC to pull this off. Again, trash that you can clear can also be controlled perfectly by 2 CWs for less the effort. A full DPS spec wiz (useless) also completely out damages a DPS cleric in trash clearing by a country mile.

    And lol at single target close to TRs. The TRs you're running with are probably horribad. I feel sorry for you.
    Gabriel Angelfire - Devoted Cleric // Karguk the Impaler - Great Weapon Fighter // Zephalyne - Control Wizard
    PVP: How to make your life less miserable as a Devoted Clerics -- Still in it's Unfinished Glory
    Dragon
  • adozuadozu Member Posts: 477 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    your math is incorrect anyway, 5 players boosted with divine glow = 15% party damage increase, not 75%. if you only catch 1 player in it it's a flat 3% -party- damage increase assuming everyone deals the same damage (which they don't but that actually plays in your favor assuming the few you boost are the top dealers).

    also yes, some TR are horribad, i had one yesterday i would surpass on my cleric in damage. doesn't make my build awesome just him really bad.
  • kattefjaeskattefjaes Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 2,270 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    Meanwhile a properly specced Thaum CW can debuff a whole crowd of mobs with their usual rotation, while CCing them and burning them down, and people can stand where the hell they like, avoiding damage properly.
  • adozuadozu Member Posts: 477 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    "Is A DPS Cleric Viable As DPS Role In Groups?"

    pure dps? no
    dps/support hybrid? mmm yes

    /thread
  • lerapisolerapiso Member Posts: 85
    edited July 2013
    Divine Glow 3 grants a 15% Buff value to people in it's AoE. IF you get 5 in it, it's a 75% DPS increase for the whole party, which is always cool.

    These math ... :eek:
    Pls never try to TC again.
    Btw, the buff from divine glow is 20%.
    adozu wrote: »
    from my experience (as a nearly top geared TR) pure dps clerics can hardly close in to 50% of my damage at the end of the dungeon and that's counting trash so single target boss is more like 1/4.

    if you play your cleric FULL dps in my opinion you're wasting a party slot, hence why i think a DPS/support hybrid is much better. try to take a pure dps cleric anywhere beyond t1 and tell me if you think you're really making a difference.

    It's funny cause i cleaned everything as a pure dps cleric and i rarely see a TR ahead me in the total damage, they can't fill the gap that I made on thrash. Imo, you played with ****ty dps DC.
    And I play almost always with the guys with who I 3man CN since 2 month, a full bis TR with a normal vorpal, and a recovery/CC CW, the CW can beat me on trash, depending of the amount of trash he bump off, the TR can't, and I don't think they are trashs.

    I encourage you to test, you'll see that dps cleric is a huge dps, and he makes your DD run faster with his huge buff/debuff.
  • zephryl1zephryl1 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 220 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    If you're pure DPS, not using any of your Pure Healing Encounters, then you're letting your team down no matter the content you're running, with the possible exception of PvP.

    With the recent Astral Shield fix/nerf, if you're running as the only Cleric you also need to slot a second healing spell (Healing Word, Bastion, Forgemasters) for the down-time and probably Sun Burst, since it's godlike for AP generation. That leaves you with roughly 0 Encounter slots for DPS.

    If you're running with another Cleric then you'll be expected to run Astral Shield so you can lay it down in the other Clerics downtime, which allows them to run a Debuff encounter, or a second AP generator. It also means you have a free slot for a DPS/Debuff of your choice.

    tl;dr To be able to run DPS, you need to be using two Clerics, and even then two of your Encounter slots are pretty much reserved for Astral Shield and Sun Burst. And even then, you won't be pure DPS because the DPS Encounter Slots will be spread over the both of you.

    So, basically, no.
  • lerapisolerapiso Member Posts: 85
    edited July 2013
    zephryl1 wrote: »
    If you're pure DPS, not using any of your Pure Healing Encounters, then you're letting your team down no matter the content you're running, with the possible exception of PvP.

    With the recent Astral Shield fix/nerf, if you're running as the only Cleric you also need to slot a second healing spell (Healing Word, Bastion, Forgemasters) for the down-time and probably Sun Burst, since it's godlike for AP generation. That leaves you with roughly 0 Encounter slots for DPS.

    If you're running with another Cleric then you'll be expected to run Astral Shield so you can lay it down in the other Clerics downtime, which allows them to run a Debuff encounter, or a second AP generator. It also means you have a free slot for a DPS/Debuff of your choice.

    tl;dr To be able to run DPS, you need to be using two Clerics, and even then two of your Encounter slots are pretty much reserved for Astral Shield and Sun Burst. And even then, you won't be pure DPS because the DPS Encounter Slots will be spread over the both of you.

    So, basically, no.

    Just no, the whole content can be solo healed without any problem, if the healer need you to play with heal encounter, there is a problem in your party.and sure you'll need 2 DC, you're a DPS.
  • zephryl1zephryl1 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 220 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    lerapiso wrote: »
    Just no, the whole content can be solo healed without any problem, if the healer need you to play with heal encounter, there is a problem in your party.and sure you'll need 2 DC, you're a DPS.

    Asking the other cleric to be solely responsible for the heals so that you can lay down some sub-par DPS is just... Basically, as a solo-healing Cleric I'd rather run with any other class than a DPS DC.
  • kattefjaeskattefjaes Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 2,270 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    zephryl1 wrote: »
    Asking the other cleric to be solely responsible for the heals so that you can lay down some sub-par DPS is just... Basically, as a solo-healing Cleric I'd rather run with any other class than a DPS DC.

    Quite. It was bad enough having to give sympathy spots to GWFs (before the patch, now a well-played and geared/specced one is awesome). At least they were making the best of a broken class. This is just being a waste of skin on purpose.
  • fondlezfondlez Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    zephryl1 wrote: »
    If you're pure DPS, not using any of your Pure Healing Encounters, then you're letting your team down no matter the content you're running, with the possible exception of PvP.

    With the recent Astral Shield fix/nerf, if you're running as the only Cleric you also need to slot a second healing spell (Healing Word, Bastion, Forgemasters) for the down-time and probably Sun Burst, since it's godlike for AP generation. That leaves you with roughly 0 Encounter slots for DPS.

    If you're running with another Cleric then you'll be expected to run Astral Shield so you can lay it down in the other Clerics downtime, which allows them to run a Debuff encounter, or a second AP generator. It also means you have a free slot for a DPS/Debuff of your choice.

    tl;dr To be able to run DPS, you need to be using two Clerics, and even then two of your Encounter slots are pretty much reserved for Astral Shield and Sun Burst. And even then, you won't be pure DPS because the DPS Encounter Slots will be spread over the both of you.

    So, basically, no.

    ^^this.

    To answer the OP's question, if a DC dps cleric is group viable: no, definitely not for any non-trivial content.

    You're a waste of a slot because everyone else can do everything you do and more and better. No one with alternative choices, outside of premades, will ever take you on as a DPS and most in the final endgame (T2+) will be loath to even take you on as hybrid unless its a CN pug (when timing is largely irrelevant) because you slow down the runs so much during that crucial Dungeon Delve hour.
  • lerapisolerapiso Member Posts: 85
    edited July 2013
    zephryl1 wrote: »
    Asking the other cleric to be solely responsible for the heals so that you can lay down some sub-par DPS is just... Basically, as a solo-healing Cleric I'd rather run with any other class than a DPS DC.

    As I said, the whole content can be solo heal.
    I think you've never played with a real dps cleric, it's the best pick in terms of party damage.
  • kattefjaeskattefjaes Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 2,270 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    lerapiso wrote: »
    As I said, the whole content can be solo heal.
    I think you've never played with a real dps cleric, it's the best pick in terms of party damage.

    No, just no.
  • oronessoroness Member Posts: 378 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    As I always say in this kind of threads:

    unique.jpg


    You'll always see them in any mmo, they see themselves as prophets. Bringers of "The New Ways"

    It reminds me of those Full Support clerics in Raiderz, a game where you can dodge and block 95% of the damage and a single burst heal that every cleric gets at lv6 can heal 33% of your HP with a cooldown of 1-5 seconds, even if not maxed.
    They want to be different and the way to be so is being a FS healbot. They see themselves as a cool thing, like UNIQUE beings in a world of clones. The fact is that they're not needed and become a burden for a party when waves and waves of mobs need to be killed and all they can do is spam heal heal heal, which does substantially little ;close to nothing actually. Or when a boss is becoming stronger and stronger the longer the fight lasts, changing phases, using more powerful attacks and they do nothing to speed up the killing.

    The trend here is the DPS cleric. A half-assed AoE DPS toon with the disadvantage that this kind of damage is not needed at all in the roughest of encounters which tend to need quite a bit of defensive support such as DR and heals, quite the contrary as Raiderz. Let's look at GWFs, they are not really needed. You got one on your party: great, absolutely nice addition. Controlled adds die faster. But the fact is that adds can already be almost permanently controlled. If you don't have a GWF in your party you can perfectly clear the instance in a pretty comfortable manner, as if he/she was there.

    In NW you need a cleric that can keep you healed, protected and buffed at the same time. You don't need to give up healing to support offensively your team. You don't need to give up your offensive buffs to deffensively support your team. You can do BOTH at the same time and i'm sure your mates would be a lot more grateful if you did that rather than half-healing them and half-killing random trash around the room while trying to live up to top 3 roles and not fullfilling any role properly.

    just mho.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    I want this class in NW. :o
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