No..I believe these people are prolly like MCDonalds employees. You go to McDonalds..you order your food..its cooked it tastes halfway decent..you leave not hungry anymore..does that mean a 5 star Cordon Bleu Chef cooked the meal and a naked waitress served it to you?...No...you make sure not to <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> off the cashier or your food will get spat in....Serving over 1 billion..I remember when they were able to brag about that...and Mc Donalds food is nowhere as good as it was back in the 70s.
Was your McDonalds free? Mine was not last time I went.
Was your McDonalds free? Mine was not last time I went.
That's a fair point...but playing this game is like getting your food free and then having to pay for the condiments and the plates and the cups...sure you get a nice beef patty with some bread but that's it. Yes, you can play the game from dusk til dawn and make AD to buy everything in 3-6 months but don't try and make like that's a real viable option.It's not.The only people who have spent NO money in this game and have the mounts they want and the armor they want and the weapons they want the color they want and have never spent a dime respeccing or on bags is in the 1%(if that)..and I would venture to bet they're sweat shop players.
Here's a hint to everybody : Why complain about something that is free? If you got a free meal, what would you do? Be thankful you even got it or complain that "It could have been better" or "This is all I get"? Good god people you do not have to pay anything. I want all the haters to come to my buisness and work for me for free. No water, no break. Then have customers complain that they didn't get more and we will see how you feel. But, wait a minute! The service you preformed for them was free. So how can they complain? Imagine if a homeless person gets a house from "Habitat For Humanity" and right away he starts complaining that it only has 2 bathrooms and not 3. WTF!?!? All the crybabies are doing the same thing with mmo's. And guess what? When it's gone, people will complain in full force, "Why did you shut my game down?" So instead of bashing a company for making a free product for you, why dont you support them. Instead of spreading hate, promote the **** game. Maybe then, investors will look around and say, "Wow, this game is kickin!" and before you know it, they have more money from investors and the game will have enough money to survive and (or) make it even better! This goes for any MMO. FYI : no i'm not a cryptic employee or a fanboy either. I'm just like the game and MMO's.
p.s. I also agree with the Facebook and twitter thing. Those 2 sites are the most rediculas of all. Plus MMORPG.com
p.s.s. I also agree about holding true to D&D. This is a must.
a word of advice : You get what you give. If somebody occasionally says good job to me, I work 10x better than if somebody comes up to me and says that i'm useless and a waste of space.
That's a fair point...but playing this game is like getting your food free and then having to pay for the condiments and the plates and the cups...sure you get a nice beef patty with some bread but that's it. Yes, you can play the game from dusk til dawn and make AD to buy everything in 3-6 months but don't try and make like that's a real viable option.It's not.The only people who have spent NO money in this game and have the mounts they want and the armor they want and the weapons they want the color they want and have never spent a dime respeccing or on bags is in the 1%(if that)..and I would venture to bet they're sweat shop players.
I'm not and I have everything in game I need just by playing. Although it does help to be in a guild with a great community. I guess i'm the 1% that got lucky?
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perfectindigoMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
Loyalty to what? PW is an experienced for profit company that's been tweaking its f2p model for years, learning to create the right experience and right prices to get the most money from the people who will pay.
f2p games are free so that people will come in the door and the company can monetize them. It would be like being loyal to a casino. The casino loves me while I'm there, there's drinks and bright lights and excitement, and hey, how about another game? Both the casino and I know that it's only friendly on the surface. The casino will fleece me if I get out of control and too free with my wallet. If I'm responsible, I can have a good time. But it's not a safe environment, and the casino doesn't care what financial shape I'm in when I walk out the door. It doesn't care if I got a "fair" deal, only how much it earned from me.
To be loyal to a company requires that it care about its customers and product long term. A game like Neverwinter only lasts a couple years before the company releases a new shiny thing, looking to rake in profits on a new wave of enthusiasm.
I'm not saying Neverwinter is a bad game or that PW is a bad company for releasing a f2p game. I'm saying that because of what an f2p game is, it doesn't make sense to be loyal to it. They build up and fall quickly. They go for as long as they can get money from the big spenders, then they close up shop and move on.
Subscription games (that don't have cash shops) are different. They serve their loyal customers by providing enough value to earn those subscriptions each month. The problem is that the market has shifted. Fewer people pay subscriptions because there are so many free options. And no one wants to release a game without a cash shop because that's like leaving money on the table. The market has spoken, and no one, the customers or the companies, want loyalty. They want new free stuff with cash shops. As long as you understand what you're in for, you can have a good time. If you want loyalty, you need to find a niche subscription game that is happy making a small amount of money and support them.
So I guess my question is, when did it become cool among the gaming community to try to kill its own games? I'm not talking about complaining about bugs and balance issues and so-forth, I'm talking about the outright attempts to make sure nobody you know comes through the door. The willful choking off of the game's air supply. When did that become okay?
When it became OK to ship games knowingly broken and full of unfixed exploits reported months earlier. When it became OK to fix a game with roll-back-requiring bugs that were already known and fixed in an earlier version of the same warmed-over engine used for another game. When the feats, powers, attributes and other things simply don't work as described, yet discovering it and working around them iteratively requires cold hard cash. When the cash grab is this blatant. The list continues. Blaming the victim is mendacious and slimy.
There are games i would go back to in a heart beat if the graphics were updated enough. Quality.not quantity.I thought for sure this would be a revisit to the DDO game with bad graphics..in the beginning i thought it was til I realized it was a well disguised money shop instead.
If NCSoft were to suddenly reverse its decision to close City of Heroes down and reopen the servers tomorrow with the Paragon Studios crew back in the saddle, I'd drop every other MMO and go back. EVEN if there were no graphic updates. AND pay the fifteen dollar monthly sub again.
How's THAT for loyalty? Because Paragon Studios did it right.
When it became OK to ship games knowingly broken and full of unfixed exploits reported months earlier. When it became OK to fix a game with roll-back-requiring bugs that were already known and fixed in an earlier version of the same warmed-over engine used for another game. When the feats, powers, attributes and other things simply don't work as described, yet discovering it and working around them iteratively requires cold hard cash. When the cash grab is this blatant. The list continues. Blaming the victim is mendacious and slimy.
"Show some loyalty", don't reward bad behaviour. Don't simply keep redefining the minimum acceptable standard until it approaches what is offered.
If devs waited for bug free games, we'd never have a release, there would be nothing to play and devs could not remain employed for lack of revenue.
The vast majority of bugs and suggestions have already been caught and submitted by internal QA.
Way before external players get their hands on the game.
Prioritizing when its practical to release is always partially a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> shoot.
And, again, is much less of an issue when products can be fixed and updated with a patch.
Neverwinter has been fun to play - even with a few annoying bugs.
Even lacking content and features I would prefer to have.
Especially since I know fixes and new content is on the way.
I'd disagree on that. Let's use EQ as an example. To start getting end game gear required a guild and being able to be at a set spawn at a set time. Period. If your raid wasn't there, your guild missed their shot, and the next guild in the rotation stepped in. This is because there were no instances - that raid boss was the *only* spawn. Just one. Not one per group. One.
So, if you're me, with a young kid who might awaken at any particular moment in the night, you're unreliable in a group setting. So you don't group. And you certainly can't plan to spend a few hours raiding.
That loot, therefore, in unobtainable by me. I do not have an equal chance that some jobless teen spending 16 hours a day grinding has. Even if the time we put in is anywhere *near* the same at some point, I still will have no way to get gear that good.
The other huge difference is people back then did not feel entitled to getting gear that good. Most people I knew who played EQ, and I knew quite a few, thought it was completely absurd to live their entire life being "on call" so when Nagafen or Vox spawns they can rush to log into EQ on the characters they had logged next to those zones and quickly take out a boss. They also did not feel entitled to the best loot in the game, being satisfied with class based armor from quests, which was the pre-end game armor in that day.
This is different from todays attitude of many players who feel entitled to the best loot in the game, but do not want to have to play the game a long time to get it, often referring to people who play grind games as "basement dwellers"
Cut to NW. If I set up some alts, run leadership, invoke regularly, maybe even get lucky at the AH, I can build up the AD to buy end game gear. Will it take longer than running CN? Yeah, it will. But - and this is the important thing - I have the opportunity to get that gear somehow.
Right, and while this pleases casual gamers, it alienates those who felt that more effort SHOULD equal better rewards. Note that back in EQ it was NOT the other way around - casual gamers were not bitter that they could not have highest tier endgame loot unless they were willing to put in the time.
Best of all? I don't have to pay $60 for the game, or $15/month to get it. In fact, if I'm really good at the AH, or can get lucky enough to get a dungeon run in (and a drop to go my way), I may even end up with some nice stuff from the Zen shop without pulling out my wallet. EQ? "Here's our new expansion. $60 please. Unless you want to fall behind the gear curve and be 5-10 levels behind the rest of the players...". Every. 6. Months.
95% of the players cared less about the pixelated arms race the uber guilds took part in.
The reality of the situation is this:
Paid sub games put the onus on the company to continue to churn out a quality game. If they dont, people stop paying and stop playing. There was no 'stop paying but continue to harp on the forums about how bad the game is" in EQ - if my account was not active because I voted with my wallet, I didnt have a forum account either.
F2P marketed games puts the onus on the company to continue to come up with solid monetization strategies. The game is not the product - it is merely the environment the real product, store bought items, gets used in.
Seriously? There was a time when everyone had an equal chance at everything in game for the same small $60 initial and $15 a month too. I will save my loyalty for a company who doesn't spend every second of my online time rooting around in my pockets.
I agree with this completely.
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maiku217Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
Loyalty you ask?
Two more pictures. Couldn't post it as image because max allowed was 4.
Total of $5280.
Plus, donations throughout NW streamers on twitch up to $2500 now.
I've been banned 3 times due to 'accidents', account being caught as a might be mule due to having so much AD/Zen/Gold. Was apologized but 10 days worth of no replies and such.. was horrible. I've also been muted from chat twice for doing literally nothing.
As of now I've still been donating/going around streams but it seems to be dying on twitch. I still buy $200 worth of zen from time to time. I've made all character to 60 and am repeating right now. I've been through 3 big guilds that have died.
Overall, it's getting a bit depressing. I can only hope this game gets better as time progresses. But loyalty? I definitely think I've got.
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krahctMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
There was a time when game development companies did it because of their passion and love of gaming and pushing the threshold of 3d modeling and the technology...the money was an afterthought. Now it's all about the money, how fast can they break even and how much profit can they make.
On another note, anytime something new comes out, whether it's cars, planes, trains, shoes, Ipads, mice whatever...people tolerate much more than later after the product or service has been out for awhile. They eventually begin to expect more, it's human nature.
The cave was great it protected us from bad animals and the elements, but once we got used to that we wanted more, we wanted Cave with a window view of the river below, then we wanted to get out of the cold cave and move into a dry thatched roof hollow with a dirt floor instead of a rock floor, then we wanted floorboards, then carpet, then serpentine tile.
At some point we'll want our games to completely immerse us in their worlds, so we can escape the real one we can't stand anymore.
"I never make mistakes, I once thought I did but I was wrong"
seriously? There was a time when everyone had an equal chance at everything in game for the same small $60 initial and $15 a month too. I will save my loyalty for a company who doesn't spend every second of my online time rooting around in my pockets.
Jesus, Maiku, I cant imagine what to think of that, ive spent $100 and feel skrewed. lol. Jeez while your throwing money away. Throw some my way, I have 2 kids that would benefit.:)
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krahctMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
I know I keep going back and looking at how much money this guy has spent and thinking that's a third of the new car I just bought. That's some serious loyalty or obsession I'm not sure.
"I never make mistakes, I once thought I did but I was wrong"
Jesus, Maiku, I cant imagine what to think of that, ive spent $100 and feel skrewed. lol. Jeez while your throwing money away. Throw some my way, I have 2 kids that would benefit.:)
I got to admit I'm a little jealous. I spend a lot on games, but I can't go that far. I know I would if I could afford it though. On the other hand I am pretty pleased with the game itself though. Sure I wasted money on somethings I wish I hadn't. And their customer service is crud. But I enjoy playing and its fun. Kind of an odd feeling. Being content.
First and /end thread that was 1999 if not farther back for some games. What you are basically saying is that in 14 years of gaming that the industry has not changed? and you are okay with that? Trade bugs that were fixed in 1999 going live in 2013 and you are okay with that? woes and frazzled brains happening in 2004 in WoW and you are okay with that happening 9 years later? Industry standards not being applied every time a new game comes out? and you are okay with that? Every single game from EQ1 on up has had AH issues, player trade issues, gold farmer spam issues, dungeon bugs class bugs and issues balance issues and once they are fixed the next game comes out with the same <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> ISSUES? AND YOU ARE OKAY WITH THAT???? are you stupid or just <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>?
tl;dr - if you try the game and don't like it, you're wrong.
If you have an issue with the economy being wrecked and multiple game-breaking bugs, you're wrong.
I played EQ [DE Wizzy, what uuuppp h8 me plz] and I can tell you there was a LOT of complaining. Not only that, but we ragged on UO players quite often.
Back in the day people did not troll like people do now. The hate was frustration and not venomous like the forums of today. Mainly because when UO and EQ1 came out it was like ground breaking stuff. There were crazy amount of bugs. More than anything that is happening with games now. Terrible code and game mechanics. The youth of today would never tolerate such games now. But for us old folks it was like new and so sweet. Give a guy chocolate for the first time he is not going to complain that it is too sweet or too bitter. He is going to be out of his mind in joy to ask for dark or milk chocolate. I remember UO and all the initial down times and being so frustrated but never did I complain and rage. I just could not wait to go back in. Same thing with EQ1. You appreciated the game too much to whine about every little thing. But that is it back then. For a long time it was UO and EQ. DAoC came much later and it had a horrible launch but it was different and once it got going it was loved. Now there are literally thousands of games. We are spoiled. When people are spoiled they complain about petty things not realizing how good they have it.
I live in so Cal and here people complain that they have to drive a civic instead of bmw. They whine because they cant buy true religion jeans but have to settle for lucky brand. Where purses are 2,000.00 dollars and you have to have at least 4 different types. It is all relative folks. Try to keep perspective before you go rage on the forums.
Just remember, UO was played over dial-up folks. Yeah that is right dial up. I didn't intend this to be "when I was your age I walked 10 miles to school, in the snow, with no shoes" type deal, but I guess that is how it came out.
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bizaelMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 3Arc User
edited June 2013
I know what you're trying to say here but I think the worry is unnecessary. If a game has serious issues any rational gamer will look elsewhere regardless of people jumping on a negative social media bandwagon. Will there be a few sheep out there who read a blistering review or comments on some post and decide not to play? Of course but I won't believe that's how the average player makes the decision to stay or not. For example, you mentioned SWTOR. Beautiful artwork; interesting character classes; fun combat system; enjoyable crafting system, etc. Yet the game was so easy with appropriate companions that most people did nothing but solo. Better loot in group instances wasn't enough incentive to group up on the average day for a lot of people. Took about a month of play before I was just bored with the game and returned to an older title. My point is that I came to that conclusion on my own and not once did I resort to reading a review or forum post blasting the game before I decided to leave.
Also, cultures have changed greatly since the earlier games you've mentioned so some of what you're seeing/feeling is a reflection of that. There are hoards of spoiled, anti social, narcissistic gamers who will never be satisfied even after clocking 50+ hours a week in a game they say they hate. Because there are so many other games out there to jump into if this one fails why would they care?
I'm having a lot of fun in Neverwinter. Level 1-60 is brilliant but post 60 needs some work.
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maiku217Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Spending that much money on a game brings a few things to mind.
1. Stupidity
2. Illegal activity involving gold selling.
Not say either one applies, it's just what comes to mind.
Well see, you say 'that much money' because that money seems a lot to you. I'm sure you'd throw a penny away if you had a bit too much in your wallet too but calling you stupid because you threw a penny away would be wrong. Like I said, I donate away a lot of money, not only to streamers but to kickstarter and to lots of charities. Don't think you have any right to judge someone's usage of money.
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treize26Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
Two major things were different back then. I played DAoC for about 7 years - from release. Prior to that I played Asheron's Call for a couple years, that was it.
Those 2 games had fully fleshed out worlds at release, with enough content to keep me happy, as well as the people I played with. DAoC had amazing PvP, and some of the best fun I had in that game was roaming around exploring with my guild. I believe it took me close to a year to hit max level, if not longer, and once I got there, I still had plenty to do. Asheron's Call - the world was immense, me and my friends would group up and just start wandering, finding ourselves in really bad places (realizing it a bit too late) and had a great deal of fun trying and often failing to get back to civilization.
That aspect of gaming is gone now, most new MMOs are just themeparks with the game worlds being condensed into tiny areas with pre-ordained paths from level 1 - <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. I play significantly less than I did back in the DAoC days, and I find myself hitting max level in most new games within a month, if not shorter. Game companies design games to lure people in with flash and short-term gratification, and then it becomes the run of the mill dungeon/daily grinder that they feel will keep those most likely to pay them coming back.
But we also have a different community now as well, WoW did a great deal of good in bringing new talent and new ideas to the MMO scene, but also did a great deal of harm by bringing the genre out of "niche" status and into the mainstream. Now companies see vast hordes of people as potential customers instead of trying to please a relative handful of people who want something specific out of their games. This has caused games to go from being very good in a specific area (EQ w/ PvE, DAoC with PvP) to being generic McDonald's style mediocrity which is widely accessible but in the end, very unsatisfying.
Short of some Indie dev coming out of nowhere and starting the next great MMO for those who would actually prefer to play a game for more than a few months, I don't see this changing anytime soon, unfortunately. At this point it's best to have as much fun as you can, and then move on. Right now, Neverwinter is fun for me and my friends, but getting to the point where we're doing the same thing every day 2 months in does not indicate that this game is going to be a long-term investment.
The time Ultima,Everquest,DaoC etc etc were created,people were not used to MMOs and the companies didnt have the technology and experience they have now.
After 13 years and so,you cant believe that people will show the same patiance like before,after so many MMOS that have released.
I will support a game,when i see that the company really tries the best for the customers and that they really spent a serious amout of time developing the game.
Two major things were different back then. I played DAoC for about 7 years - from release. Prior to that I played Asheron's Call for a couple years, that was it.
Those 2 games had fully fleshed out worlds at release, with enough content to keep me happy, as well as the people I played with. DAoC had amazing PvP, and some of the best fun I had in that game was roaming around exploring with my guild. I believe it took me close to a year to hit max level, if not longer, and once I got there, I still had plenty to do. Asheron's Call - the world was immense, me and my friends would group up and just start wandering, finding ourselves in really bad places (realizing it a bit too late) and had a great deal of fun trying and often failing to get back to civilization.
That aspect of gaming is gone now, most new MMOs are just themeparks with the game worlds being condensed into tiny areas with pre-ordained paths from level 1 - <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. I play significantly less than I did back in the DAoC days, and I find myself hitting max level in most new games within a month, if not shorter. Game companies design games to lure people in with flash and short-term gratification, and then it becomes the run of the mill dungeon/daily grinder that they feel will keep those most likely to pay them coming back.
But we also have a different community now as well, WoW did a great deal of good in bringing new talent and new ideas to the MMO scene, but also did a great deal of harm by bringing the genre out of "niche" status and into the mainstream. Now companies see vast hordes of people as potential customers instead of trying to please a relative handful of people who want something specific out of their games. This has caused games to go from being very good in a specific area (EQ w/ PvE, DAoC with PvP) to being generic McDonald's style mediocrity which is widely accessible but in the end, very unsatisfying.
Short of some Indie dev coming out of nowhere and starting the next great MMO for those who would actually prefer to play a game for more than a few months, I don't see this changing anytime soon, unfortunately. At this point it's best to have as much fun as you can, and then move on. Right now, Neverwinter is fun for me and my friends, but getting to the point where we're doing the same thing every day 2 months in does not indicate that this game is going to be a long-term investment.
Well said. You can also add Final Fantasy XI to that list of oldschool, hardcore MMOs with massive game worlds that encouraged exploration and discovery, instead of the instanced piece of <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> MMOs these days like Neverwinter. Those MMOs gave you reasons to go back to the leveling zones by making mobs in those zones drop valuable items that you either have to farm or camp. We see none of that in Neverwinter or most other MMOs these days. You fly past the zones you leveled up and never go back. You spend most of the time in the town or grinding away at the same 2-5 instanced 5-man dungeons everyday.
Those oldschool MMOs gave the players an actual sense of accomplishment when you leveled up or got a new piece of gear that didn't make you completely overpowered and broken. Those oldschool MMOs also punished you severely if you sucked or messed up and died. Those oldschool MMOs didn't have a pay to win model, where once you buy out all the gear from the AH with real life money, there was absolutely nothing else to do in the game.
Finally, those old school MMOs had insanely challenging boss fights that took intelligence, coordination, and skill from 20+ players (some 40-100+, or even the entire server of geared out players) in order to beat, not to mention having to get the claim of the boss in first place. None of this <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> we see today like in Neverwinter with simple and non-existent boss mechanics that's basically throw more adds at the players to increase difficulty.
Loyalty, like respect, is EARNED, not given. Cryptic and PWE has shown us no reason to give them any loyalty nor respect. In fact, they have given us enough reasons to be unloyal and disrespectful to them with their greed, scumbag business practices, little end game content, non-existent GM and customer service support, and inability to fix major bugs and exploits in this game in a timely fashion. Oh, bots and gold sellers are still a major problem that they still haven't taken care of for 2 months now.
At the end of the day, Neverwinter is just another generic, run of the mill, pay to win, hamster wheel gear grind MMO. Until they start showing signs of major improvement, there won't be many loyal fans and customers in this game.
Comments
p.s. I also agree with the Facebook and twitter thing. Those 2 sites are the most rediculas of all. Plus MMORPG.com
p.s.s. I also agree about holding true to D&D. This is a must.
a word of advice : You get what you give. If somebody occasionally says good job to me, I work 10x better than if somebody comes up to me and says that i'm useless and a waste of space.
f2p games are free so that people will come in the door and the company can monetize them. It would be like being loyal to a casino. The casino loves me while I'm there, there's drinks and bright lights and excitement, and hey, how about another game? Both the casino and I know that it's only friendly on the surface. The casino will fleece me if I get out of control and too free with my wallet. If I'm responsible, I can have a good time. But it's not a safe environment, and the casino doesn't care what financial shape I'm in when I walk out the door. It doesn't care if I got a "fair" deal, only how much it earned from me.
To be loyal to a company requires that it care about its customers and product long term. A game like Neverwinter only lasts a couple years before the company releases a new shiny thing, looking to rake in profits on a new wave of enthusiasm.
I'm not saying Neverwinter is a bad game or that PW is a bad company for releasing a f2p game. I'm saying that because of what an f2p game is, it doesn't make sense to be loyal to it. They build up and fall quickly. They go for as long as they can get money from the big spenders, then they close up shop and move on.
Subscription games (that don't have cash shops) are different. They serve their loyal customers by providing enough value to earn those subscriptions each month. The problem is that the market has shifted. Fewer people pay subscriptions because there are so many free options. And no one wants to release a game without a cash shop because that's like leaving money on the table. The market has spoken, and no one, the customers or the companies, want loyalty. They want new free stuff with cash shops. As long as you understand what you're in for, you can have a good time. If you want loyalty, you need to find a niche subscription game that is happy making a small amount of money and support them.
When it became OK to ship games knowingly broken and full of unfixed exploits reported months earlier. When it became OK to fix a game with roll-back-requiring bugs that were already known and fixed in an earlier version of the same warmed-over engine used for another game. When the feats, powers, attributes and other things simply don't work as described, yet discovering it and working around them iteratively requires cold hard cash. When the cash grab is this blatant. The list continues. Blaming the victim is mendacious and slimy.
Oh, and when things like this are rife:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?372712-Serious-Interface-Issues
"Show some loyalty", don't reward bad behaviour. Don't simply keep redefining the minimum acceptable standard until it approaches what is offered.
If NCSoft were to suddenly reverse its decision to close City of Heroes down and reopen the servers tomorrow with the Paragon Studios crew back in the saddle, I'd drop every other MMO and go back. EVEN if there were no graphic updates. AND pay the fifteen dollar monthly sub again.
How's THAT for loyalty? Because Paragon Studios did it right.
Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean.
The vast majority of bugs and suggestions have already been caught and submitted by internal QA.
Way before external players get their hands on the game.
Prioritizing when its practical to release is always partially a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> shoot.
And, again, is much less of an issue when products can be fixed and updated with a patch.
Neverwinter has been fun to play - even with a few annoying bugs.
Even lacking content and features I would prefer to have.
Especially since I know fixes and new content is on the way.
Your mileage may vary.
The other huge difference is people back then did not feel entitled to getting gear that good. Most people I knew who played EQ, and I knew quite a few, thought it was completely absurd to live their entire life being "on call" so when Nagafen or Vox spawns they can rush to log into EQ on the characters they had logged next to those zones and quickly take out a boss. They also did not feel entitled to the best loot in the game, being satisfied with class based armor from quests, which was the pre-end game armor in that day.
This is different from todays attitude of many players who feel entitled to the best loot in the game, but do not want to have to play the game a long time to get it, often referring to people who play grind games as "basement dwellers"
Right, and while this pleases casual gamers, it alienates those who felt that more effort SHOULD equal better rewards. Note that back in EQ it was NOT the other way around - casual gamers were not bitter that they could not have highest tier endgame loot unless they were willing to put in the time.
95% of the players cared less about the pixelated arms race the uber guilds took part in.
The reality of the situation is this:
Paid sub games put the onus on the company to continue to churn out a quality game. If they dont, people stop paying and stop playing. There was no 'stop paying but continue to harp on the forums about how bad the game is" in EQ - if my account was not active because I voted with my wallet, I didnt have a forum account either.
F2P marketed games puts the onus on the company to continue to come up with solid monetization strategies. The game is not the product - it is merely the environment the real product, store bought items, gets used in.
I agree with this completely.
Two more pictures. Couldn't post it as image because max allowed was 4.
Total of $5280.
Plus, donations throughout NW streamers on twitch up to $2500 now.
I've been banned 3 times due to 'accidents', account being caught as a might be mule due to having so much AD/Zen/Gold. Was apologized but 10 days worth of no replies and such.. was horrible. I've also been muted from chat twice for doing literally nothing.
As of now I've still been donating/going around streams but it seems to be dying on twitch. I still buy $200 worth of zen from time to time. I've made all character to 60 and am repeating right now. I've been through 3 big guilds that have died.
Overall, it's getting a bit depressing. I can only hope this game gets better as time progresses. But loyalty? I definitely think I've got.
On another note, anytime something new comes out, whether it's cars, planes, trains, shoes, Ipads, mice whatever...people tolerate much more than later after the product or service has been out for awhile. They eventually begin to expect more, it's human nature.
The cave was great it protected us from bad animals and the elements, but once we got used to that we wanted more, we wanted Cave with a window view of the river below, then we wanted to get out of the cold cave and move into a dry thatched roof hollow with a dirt floor instead of a rock floor, then we wanted floorboards, then carpet, then serpentine tile.
At some point we'll want our games to completely immerse us in their worlds, so we can escape the real one we can't stand anymore.
qft
/10101
I got to admit I'm a little jealous. I spend a lot on games, but I can't go that far. I know I would if I could afford it though.
That's life.
1. Stupidity
2. Illegal activity involving gold selling.
Not say either one applies, it's just what comes to mind.
If you have an issue with the economy being wrecked and multiple game-breaking bugs, you're wrong.
I played EQ [DE Wizzy, what uuuppp h8 me plz] and I can tell you there was a LOT of complaining. Not only that, but we ragged on UO players quite often.
Don't waste your time reading the OP.
I live in so Cal and here people complain that they have to drive a civic instead of bmw. They whine because they cant buy true religion jeans but have to settle for lucky brand. Where purses are 2,000.00 dollars and you have to have at least 4 different types. It is all relative folks. Try to keep perspective before you go rage on the forums.
Just remember, UO was played over dial-up folks. Yeah that is right dial up. I didn't intend this to be "when I was your age I walked 10 miles to school, in the snow, with no shoes" type deal, but I guess that is how it came out.
Also, cultures have changed greatly since the earlier games you've mentioned so some of what you're seeing/feeling is a reflection of that. There are hoards of spoiled, anti social, narcissistic gamers who will never be satisfied even after clocking 50+ hours a week in a game they say they hate. Because there are so many other games out there to jump into if this one fails why would they care?
I'm having a lot of fun in Neverwinter. Level 1-60 is brilliant but post 60 needs some work.
Well see, you say 'that much money' because that money seems a lot to you. I'm sure you'd throw a penny away if you had a bit too much in your wallet too but calling you stupid because you threw a penny away would be wrong. Like I said, I donate away a lot of money, not only to streamers but to kickstarter and to lots of charities. Don't think you have any right to judge someone's usage of money.
Those 2 games had fully fleshed out worlds at release, with enough content to keep me happy, as well as the people I played with. DAoC had amazing PvP, and some of the best fun I had in that game was roaming around exploring with my guild. I believe it took me close to a year to hit max level, if not longer, and once I got there, I still had plenty to do. Asheron's Call - the world was immense, me and my friends would group up and just start wandering, finding ourselves in really bad places (realizing it a bit too late) and had a great deal of fun trying and often failing to get back to civilization.
That aspect of gaming is gone now, most new MMOs are just themeparks with the game worlds being condensed into tiny areas with pre-ordained paths from level 1 - <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. I play significantly less than I did back in the DAoC days, and I find myself hitting max level in most new games within a month, if not shorter. Game companies design games to lure people in with flash and short-term gratification, and then it becomes the run of the mill dungeon/daily grinder that they feel will keep those most likely to pay them coming back.
But we also have a different community now as well, WoW did a great deal of good in bringing new talent and new ideas to the MMO scene, but also did a great deal of harm by bringing the genre out of "niche" status and into the mainstream. Now companies see vast hordes of people as potential customers instead of trying to please a relative handful of people who want something specific out of their games. This has caused games to go from being very good in a specific area (EQ w/ PvE, DAoC with PvP) to being generic McDonald's style mediocrity which is widely accessible but in the end, very unsatisfying.
Short of some Indie dev coming out of nowhere and starting the next great MMO for those who would actually prefer to play a game for more than a few months, I don't see this changing anytime soon, unfortunately. At this point it's best to have as much fun as you can, and then move on. Right now, Neverwinter is fun for me and my friends, but getting to the point where we're doing the same thing every day 2 months in does not indicate that this game is going to be a long-term investment.
After 13 years and so,you cant believe that people will show the same patiance like before,after so many MMOS that have released.
I will support a game,when i see that the company really tries the best for the customers and that they really spent a serious amout of time developing the game.
Cheers!!
Well said. You can also add Final Fantasy XI to that list of oldschool, hardcore MMOs with massive game worlds that encouraged exploration and discovery, instead of the instanced piece of <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> MMOs these days like Neverwinter. Those MMOs gave you reasons to go back to the leveling zones by making mobs in those zones drop valuable items that you either have to farm or camp. We see none of that in Neverwinter or most other MMOs these days. You fly past the zones you leveled up and never go back. You spend most of the time in the town or grinding away at the same 2-5 instanced 5-man dungeons everyday.
Those oldschool MMOs gave the players an actual sense of accomplishment when you leveled up or got a new piece of gear that didn't make you completely overpowered and broken. Those oldschool MMOs also punished you severely if you sucked or messed up and died. Those oldschool MMOs didn't have a pay to win model, where once you buy out all the gear from the AH with real life money, there was absolutely nothing else to do in the game.
Finally, those old school MMOs had insanely challenging boss fights that took intelligence, coordination, and skill from 20+ players (some 40-100+, or even the entire server of geared out players) in order to beat, not to mention having to get the claim of the boss in first place. None of this <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> we see today like in Neverwinter with simple and non-existent boss mechanics that's basically throw more adds at the players to increase difficulty.
Loyalty, like respect, is EARNED, not given. Cryptic and PWE has shown us no reason to give them any loyalty nor respect. In fact, they have given us enough reasons to be unloyal and disrespectful to them with their greed, scumbag business practices, little end game content, non-existent GM and customer service support, and inability to fix major bugs and exploits in this game in a timely fashion. Oh, bots and gold sellers are still a major problem that they still haven't taken care of for 2 months now.
At the end of the day, Neverwinter is just another generic, run of the mill, pay to win, hamster wheel gear grind MMO. Until they start showing signs of major improvement, there won't be many loyal fans and customers in this game.