GWF, anyone going full CON since patch?

mazaat

With the new CON = you need less Arm Pen, does any of you respec to drop DEX and put CON?

I can see advantages:
Con: more HP, you need less Arm Pen, more stamina.
Dex: more crit, more dodge...

Also if you go CON, you can stack Recov, and with disciple of war (wich give you Arm Pen = to 25% of recov) you can use offence slot for crit...

Any taugh?

belladan

Nah. Our gear setup basically don't need to stack Con, if you play a tree correctly. I did however make a new character, speccing out of a couple of int points.

You have to do you comparison from 14con vs. 24 con, due to our min values that we can actually get. A normal human build will only see 2 con difference. Other builds, 4-6%. Nice when you get a full power set. Power sets make you glass cannon, even if you were a full sentinel. If you have a good cleric, go for it.

mutantdemocracy

I have 450 armor pen from items, 14% from having 24 points into Con, and 776 from Disciple of War.

This totals out to 26.3% armor pen, 2.3% above the maximum needed.

ayroux

mutantdemocracy wrote: »

I have 450 armor pen from items, 14% from having 24 points into Con, and 776 from Disciple of War.

This totals out to 26.3% armor pen, 2.3% above the maximum needed.

The advantage to full Con isnt the DPS stat <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, its the fact that you no longer need ARP on gear, you have the highest base HP of any class (tene anyone?) and if I am not mistaken, it helps in PVP as well.

for PVE, I would stack STR/DEX but for PVP purposes, stacking CON will win hands down with tene enchants...

mazaat

ayroux wrote: »

The advantage to full Con isnt the DPS stat <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, its the fact that you no longer need ARP on gear, you have the highest base HP of any class (tene anyone?) and if I am not mistaken, it helps in PVP as well.

for PVE, I would stack STR/DEX but for PVP purposes, stacking CON will win hands down with tene enchants...

Even for PvE... the HP buff is noticable and what about Tenebrous!!! ho ya...

mazaat

mutantdemocracy wrote: »

I have 450 armor pen from items, 14% from having 24 points into Con, and 776 from Disciple of War.

This totals out to 26.3% armor pen, 2.3% above the maximum needed.

Good point dude, so you can put recovery in offence slot now... hummmm
I'm even wondering if doW is relevent anymore now? i mean with a decent CON score, you barely need Arm Pen... and with half decent gear (T1) you'll get it!
Time for a respec?

So stat wise, new order now is: power>recovery> arm pen> def

copticone

On my GWF, I went full CON/DEX. I mainly PvP so I think it works out great. For PvE? Who cares? It's not like +4STR is going to change the viability of the class.

mazaat

Gear wise, is vigilant gear a new option? Got tons of recovery and good defense (for more power) and as an added bonus: arm pen from DoW. Beside, vigilant set is cheap... you could run 2 Vigilant and 2 Berserker/ Avatar??
any taughs?

bananachef

Vigi/Avatar was always one of, if not, the best gear setups. And it's apparent in vigilant prices which have shot up from ~50k for chest to the now ~400k on Mindflayer.

adhal81

mazaat wrote: »

Good point dude, so you can put recovery in offence slot now... hummmm
I'm even wondering if doW is relevent anymore now? i mean with a decent CON score, you barely need Arm Pen... and with half decent gear (T1) you'll get it!
Time for a respec?

So stat wise, new order now is: power>recovery> arm pen> def

Where did you get power being so high, its been shown power sucks. Order has been ArP to 24%> recovery> crit> power for a while and will stay that way untill they buff power.

Hover over power once and just look at the laughable amount of damage per point it gives, or more correctly how much power it takes just to add 1 point of damage.

belladan

As our end gear is hybrid stats, our min/max isn't going to work out well with a min/max allocation of our base stats. Try looking at the class without a Tene enchant. Even Avatar of War doesn't have a good max value. Best max from a set would be deflection from Titan's. Second would be Ancient sword set.

Power starts to scale better when both ArP and recovery is over 1600. Not because of the laughably low per point value, but because you get to use the laughably low per point value all the more often, with less loss due to mitigation. The percentages scale nicely for GWF once you get past a certain point.

gabryel

Question, does diminishing returns kick in once the effect reaches a certain point (ie. 12% reduction), or if the stat hits a certain number (1200 Penetration)?

mazaat

Ya i was a fool! Was under the impression that power was paramount... Cost me a **** load of AD to learn the hard truth!

mazaat

gabryel wrote: »

Question, does diminishing returns kick in once the effect reaches a certain point (ie. 12% reduction), or if the stat hits a certain number (1200 Penetration)?

Look at this, maybe it will help you..
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?358391-Con-(GWF)-and-Dex-(GF)-are-now-addative-to-Armor-Penetration

belladan

Were actually being a little bit more technical about the subject then you give credit. As certain abilities aid other classes, ArP reduction values in turn gain this effect. The reason we are positing a statement of being "near" the hard cap is so that you can make proper modifications of the multiplicative effect of certain abilities. 11x12=132, Yet, 12x12 is 144. Given the first number as the base damage, the power modification could yield a greater value if diminished returns still affects the negative value achieved by the ArP paradox.

Ie. You would gain more damage if you have a base damage of 110 and an ArP modifier of 2.2 over that of a base of 100 and a multiple of 2.32. (A damage increase of 4%, using semi-faulty math since I'm not plugging numbers into such big equations.)

belladan

Oh, and just to be clear, my low ArP, Meh Str, 14int GWF can dish out 19k hits from IBS with T1.8 gear before the damage patch. (and a good group. He can still get top damage.) My lvl50 can hit 4k in pvp, without just 1 pt. in IBS already, and he's still using a lvl 42 green sword. (Due to the extra str, he outperforms my lvl 60, when compared via scaling to rogues.)

kolatmaster

belladan wrote: »

Ie. You would gain more damage if you have a base damage of 110 and an ArP modifier of 2.2 over that of a base of 100 and a multiple of 2.32. (A damage increase of 4%, using semi-faulty math since I'm not plugging numbers into such big equations.)

Solid example, people take note of this...

ArmPen is important, and the buff to Con allowing us to not have to load up on Dark Enchantments as much is golden!