If you call 600k AD per piece cheap then you must have invested some money into the game. Yeah I had full purple armors right when I hit lvl 60 and they cost like 50k AD altogether. But that's T1 gear. Then there's T2 gear and even better than T2 which would be the end-game gear you're talking about.
People always exaggerate the amount of AD they are able to accumulate, and it won't stop any time soon.
A rich rogue nowadays is fit company for any gentleman; and the world, my dear, hath not such a contempt for roguery as you imagine. - John HAMSTER
Always fun to talk about 'reasonable' prices when everyone's definition of reasonable is different. You'll never get a straight answer let alone a definitive one. You'll get lots of people offering their own perspective, some agreeing with that, some disagreeing and as usual some predicting (like every other MMO in the world) it's imminent demise. The last lot will still be here on the last day, regardless of how long away that is, claiming they were right...
But at the end of the day, this is a free to play MMO (no subs) and the money to run it and develop it needs to come from somewhere. Are the prices for the items in the Zen store 'reasonable'? For me, the mounts are a bit OTT and I wish profession packs came with Robert granularity... But other than that I'm generally fine with the quality; needs a lot more quantity IMHO. For other people they are too expensive, for a large variety of reasons... No perspective is wrong, but perversely no perspective is right.
Would I like for the, to lower prices a bit more? Meh... I still have everything I need to enjoy the game without spending in the Zen store... Including all the end game loot I could want.
A world to defend
A city to protect
innocents to save
"Why?" They ask "they hate you"
We're heroes it's what we do.
*patiently waiting on Paragon City*
0
gek1956Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
But at the end of the day, this is a free to play MMO (no subs) and the money to run it and develop it needs to come from somewhere. Are the prices for the items in the Zen store 'reasonable'? For me, the mounts are a bit OTT and I wish profession packs came with Robert granularity... But other than that I'm generally fine with the quality; needs a lot more quantity IMHO. For other people they are too expensive, for a large variety of reasons... No perspective is wrong, but perversely no perspective is right.
Would I like for the, to lower prices a bit more? Meh... I still have everything I need to enjoy the game without spending in the Zen store... Including all the end game loot I could want.
Ahhh at last.. among all the general angry griping and venting..... someone is THINKING. This , Antovaras, is PRECISELY the message I want PWE/Cryptic to hear. So listen up devs... In FTP you will make more money if you drop your price. There is no real 'cost factor' per unit here. It's all about volume of business. And as I have said before, it's WIN WIN....customers get more and so do you. Think about it.
So sad to see a creative masterpiece like this game and know it's never going anywhere because of the outrageous cash shop that pwe sticks to every one of its games.
You would think they would use the addage, of sell low, push volume... drop the price's, more will buy and you make up the difference in the amount sold vs low volume at high prices. Don't tell me it doesnt work...been there done that.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"Sir, were now surrounded"!
Thats great news son, now we can attack from ALL sides"!
But at the end of the day, this is a free to play MMO (no subs) and the money to run it and develop it needs to come from somewhere.
Well at least this one doesn’t just begin with the default assumption that you owe Cryptic for making this game. But it is shocking how very many people do indeed have that as their basic philosophy.
The money does have to come from somewhere, but that’s Cryptic’s problem, not yours or mine. It’s like that guy who snaps your picture out of the blue and then tries to force you to pay for it. He took your picture for free; selling the photo isn’t your concern.
Not that you shouldn’t spend money on the game. I spent money on City of Heroes all the time, on top of the sub. But it was because there was stuff that I wanted, stuff that was interesting. I wasn’t forced to buy it or face another 200 hours grinding. I wasn’t forced to buy it or give up progression in part of the game. I thought it was interesting and cool and so I bought it.
But now Cryptic seems to think you owe them for taking your picture. They want you to buy from them so they set up scenarios wherein you progress just far enough to have to buy something or face a future of grinding content and crafting 18-20 hour stretches with nothing to do. And somehow, people are feeling like its free players who aren’t doing their share.
I would buy something that was interesting enough to actually want. I wont gamble on a sucker’s bet or invest in scam offers designed to soak my money with what amounts to nothing in return.
You are supposed to be developing a game that captures my interest and attention Cryptic, not telling me to find the queen of spades.
Meh. I spent 30$ after launch to show support. I grabbed 1 bag and that was it. Once the zen is gone I will not be laying down more cash since the price structure is a blatant grab for my wallet.
I would buy something that was interesting enough to actually want. I wont gamble on a sucker’s bet or invest in scam offers designed to soak my money with what amounts to nothing in return.
You are supposed to be developing a game that captures my interest and attention Cryptic, not telling me to find the queen of spades.
This says it all. Every time I turn around, I am given reasons to be discouraged about this game, not reasons to spend money. I am bored with my current spec as a DC and want to try another, but I have to pay, but then I have to pay for bags, but wait..I am crafting too and stuck because I need to pay...too much I need to pay for...If I were to pay for all of it, well, I may as well go back to a game that will let me pay less and have it all...
The game is still enjoyable if you don't spend much but I do agree they should definitely lower some prices. Especially the companions that you get only get one copy of. After all, the companions from promotions and Founders' pack are account-wide. The mounts are account-wide and much cheaper.
I also think the Professions Asset Pack price is too high.
As for the dye packs, I don't have a problem with it. It's cosmetic, doesn't affect gameplay.
The game is still enjoyable if you don't spend much but I do agree they should definitely lower some prices. Especially the companions that you get only get one copy of. After all, the companions from promotions and Founders' pack are account-wide. The mounts are account-wide and much cheaper.
Completely agree. I think mount prices are fine since they are account-wise, but companions do work out fairly expensive since they are per character usually.
Posts like this always make me smile.. Not because they are wrong.. God, far from it!! I agree 100% with the OP.
What makes me laugh is the pricing structures in the first place!
Make stuff cheaper... More people buy... More profit made...
Its such simple economics!! I can't for the life of me see why developers go down this expensive route.. It just makes NO sense!
Easy answer. People PAY money, lots of money, because they need it NOW. Until people who have more money than sense stop dropping 200+ on a game in the first 10 minutes of playing then maybe...just maybe you will see a reduction in pricing.
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fusromeowMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 23Arc User
Five players? it takes that to start a guild.. but that's free. You lost me Shadowbug.
But since I cracked so hard on bank slot prices earlier, I'll note that guild bank slots are much more reasonable priced, with 150K ADs getting you 48 of them
LOL and fusro I love the name... maybe this game could use some DRAGONMEOWS
Oh my gosh! Guild slots! I never even though about that! Well, time to go purchase those lol. And thanks, this game could use a whole bunch of meows
100 people want a mount... lets keep the math simple, and say a mount costs 10 bucks at current prices.
50 of those people buy one, other 50 say too expensive.
PWE make 500 bucks...
Now drop the price to 6.50 (this of course would be a HUGE drop - but better to promote my point)
and all of a sudden 85 people buy...
PWE makes 552 bucks!
It just makes NO sense to keep the prices high. This is simple rudimentary maths! Times this by the thousands of items, and combination of players and budgets they set themselves and dropping the prices ultimately makes MORE money.
Not to mention the younger people who play, who probably make a fair percentage of the player base. Most of these guys cant afford that much, they don't have full time income, let alone any 'disposable'. But I bet you if you surveyed 500 of them, a LARGE percentage would say they spend absolute zero on the game at the moment, simply because they cant afford it! Drop the prices, and you get thier money too!
I am no economist... but I have a fairly rational business head on my shoulders. If there are any real arguments out there that support the opposite of what I am saying here I'll gladly listen, and change my view if I am found to be wrong.
But to me, right now... I can see NO flaw in this. Lower prices ultimately makes more money.
Completely agree. I think mount prices are fine since they are account-wise, but companions do work out fairly expensive since they are per character usually.
And just to mention off the top MC, tho I'm not gonna start a thread over it... lol one is enough thank you.. but the original plan was to impose an AD fee for unbinding pets so you could sell them or give them to another of your characters already trained... the devs have been absolutely mute on this issue.
0
gek1956Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I've got a serious bone to pick with certain aspects of the business model here.
Customers deserve more bang for their money. The idea here is to maximize FUN for
customers and PROFIT for the game. My only other PWE MMO is Champions Online, I've got a
lifetime sub there, I picked it up in beta, and I love that game. Here, I picked up my founder's pack, and got $100 bucks worth of Zen to get me started, so I'll give you my money, but I don't like having my wallet hijacked.
Take bank slots and costuming, for example. Now I know that Cryptic is great with
costumes 'cuz I played both COX and CO, so why do they put up such <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> here and charge
such a high price. Bottles of dye? OMG!!!! you're killing me!. It's almost funny it's
so stupid. Now for the bank. In Champions, for my SHARED ACCOUNT BANK, I spent between
fifty and one hundred dollars but I got several hundred slots that ALL of my 'toons
could share. Six hundred Zen for 24 spaces? Who'd they hire for this? A Pentagon
puchasing agent? Someone that would spend a thousand dollars for a toilet seat might
think We'll spend a quarter apiece for a nothing that holds nothing. Most players will
just clutter up the mail and the AH to avoid this bit of robbery.
On buying "packs" , or lockbox keys.... my advice is DON"T... I refuse. If I want
something out of a pack I'll pick it up in the AH. Not that I'm stingy, I usually don't
mind dropping twenty or thirty bucks a month on an MMO. In Champions Online I learned
very quickly not to buy the keys. Purple top drops in these packs are often as low as
1%, blues usually run about 10% average.
As of today 6/22/13 Zen is trading at about 345 astral diamonds, so, just to pick
one, the 1600 Zen you have to pay for the Professions Asset Pack can get you 552,000
astral diamonds on the astral diamond exchange. Now I've dealt with this system in CO
for almost 3 years now, seen several friends drop $100 dollars on keys trying to get one
thing out of a lockbox, and I've got a degree in math, so these estimates I'm about to
make are just about as accurate as my information allows.
A STINGY pack will drop assets ( iron tongs, adventurers master weavers...etc) worth
only about 65,000 astral diamonds on the auction house.. the temporary alchemy 'bonus
drop ups that to a little over 80,000. The better packs will drop for around 3 times
that value, say 200,000 to 250,000 ADs worth of assets. I'm not gonna drop several
hundred bucks on this game to get 'hard' data... Zen are a penny apiece US and that pack
is sixteen dollars. A month's subscription with the old model of $15.00 a month on
almost all MMO's from the great WOW to the tiny Champions Online. But this is just not
gonna cut it, when my Zen is worth three to four times more in the auction house.
Obviously SOMEBODY is buying this junk.
So PWE and Cryptic, LISTEN to me and make what you want us to buy in this game worth
what we have to pay for it. It's not only good for business its good for FUN, and fun
makes buzz, and buzz can turn this wonderful game here into the next WOW...I'm an older
gamer, a lifelong addict, but what's some teenager gonna do when he drops his whole
allowance on a game pack and gets a couple of needles and some men at arms? Think about
it, HMMM? In the words of two great American Icons....
There's a sucker born every minute........ P.T.Barnum
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me........ Mark Twain
Which is it gonna be guys?
Agreed!!! Things are WAY overpriced.
0
gek1956Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Besides my hero of the north pack I have spent a grand total of ten bucks on this game and really didn't have to spend that, my two mil AD is still in the queue and I have anything I want, I could have not spent a dime and had the same thing considering I'm playing a HE, not using the mount or the kitty.
The bottom line is Cryptic told the truth you can do everything in this game for free if you choose to, I could care less about Zen prices, since I really don't need to buy it, I just wish you could make this kind of bank in every MMO.
10 bucks is not much support for a game you really seem to like.
Honestly, I don't see a reason for the existing big gap between F2P and +12 $ (which seems to be the average) subscription models. Why has no big publisher ever tried a 3.99/month or 19.99/6 month sub? O_o
In case you find my grammar or spelling weird ---> native german speaker
100 people want a mount... lets keep the math simple, and say a mount costs 10 bucks at current prices.
50 of those people buy one, other 50 say too expensive.
PWE make 500 bucks...
Now drop the price to 6.50 (this of course would be a HUGE drop - but better to promote my point)
and all of a sudden 85 people buy...
PWE makes 552 bucks!
It just makes NO sense to keep the prices high. This is simple rudimentary maths! Times this by the thousands of items, and combination of players and budgets they set themselves and dropping the prices ultimately makes MORE money.
Not to mention the younger people who play, who probably make a fair percentage of the player base. Most of these guys cant afford that much, they don't have full time income, let alone any 'disposable'. But I bet you if you surveyed 500 of them, a LARGE percentage would say they spend absolute zero on the game at the moment, simply because they cant afford it! Drop the prices, and you get thier money too!
I am no economist... but I have a fairly rational business head on my shoulders. If there are any real arguments out there that support the opposite of what I am saying here I'll gladly listen, and change my view if I am found to be wrong.
But to me, right now... I can see NO flaw in this. Lower prices ultimately makes more money.
Thanks for listening,
Art
well, i am not sure about the english term.. but basically its absorption of purchasing power.. you offer good x for the high price y.. enough people buy it so it makes sense, once you realize people stop buying it you lower the price, and everybody who thinks that is a fair price will pay that amount.. and so on. it's actually a smart way of generating the max amount of profit.
using your example:
the first 50 people buy it for 10 -> 500 - after a month the price is lowered (as they did actually in reality) and the next bunch buys it for 6,5 -> 35*6,5 (the surplus of 35 people who thought 10 is too expensiv)-> then they sell it for 4 in 2 months from now to get another 30 people who think its worth that much.. everybody pays what he or she thinks it is worth (you only buy a product when you think its innate value is like what you pay for it)... only problem is, people might feel cheated if they bought it for much more... but by then they made a lot of cash already - or you can count on cognitive dissonance to take care of it
Ok, I can see that and I understand what your saying, however, maybe I'm just not seeing this logically or something because for me something doesn't quite sit right still...
Lets use the same examples...
6.5 x 85 = 552 (so already here PWE would be UP 52 bucks as per my last example)
By your example... PWE would have made 500 bucks at this point, down 52.
Then they lower the prices.
They sell another 100 say at 6.50 = 650 bucks. Their grand total is now 1150.
So lets go back to my example...
650 (from a further 100 sales, because people would 'still' be buying because the prices are cheap) AND the initial 552... By my reckoning they are STILL up 52. They have gained NOTHING by starting at the higher price.
I am trying to see it, but I simply cant see the advantage to starting higher?
Of course the 'technical' side of making people spend when they see a price cut may indeed make this difference up... People are possibly more likely to spend when they see prices cut... We all understand that for sure.
For me the jury is still out, I am still not convinced.
there is a price that you can calculate using market data on how much people are generally willing to spend. that is the price you want to hit eventually. you wont undercut it, unless the market changes. so, that price may be 4 or 6.5 - i dont know - for the sake of simplicity i was saying there is another bunch of people who think 6,5 is too high, and given a simple supply/demand curve 4 is the price you want to get.
so
scenario a:
they sell it at 6.5 -> a smaller amount of people are going to buy it for 6.5 (still more than for 10 ofc) = 85*6,5 = 552,5
people who would buy for 4 will not buy
scenario b:
50*10 = 500
35*6,5 = 227,5 -> if the data was to show that 6,5 is the price you think is the most profit can be made (amount of purchases*price is the highest (these are forcasts)) you keep it that way.. if not, you are going to lower it again to say 4.. the people buying it for 4 are the same people you claim they are losing currently because they are selling at 10 and not 6.5.
so, if the price is 4 -> 35 people who would NOT buy at 6.5 buy.. so that is additional profit
+ the marketing effects of something being on sale even though its still too expensive is a given anyway.. but i was speaking about profit maximisation and econs not marketing.. that is a whole different story.
Agreed, it's hard to speculate without the data. But my guess is the company's decisions already maximize their profit, or as close to it as their data allows.
The interesting point (IMO) is where the business end and the game end meet. Somewhere, there is a person (or a team) that converts business decisions into gameplay. That's a new field I think. That person/team got us the wonderful mechanics of paying for rez scrolls and healthstones (and made sure we needed them!)
0
gek1956Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
well, i am not sure about the english term.. but basically its absorption of purchasing power.. you offer good x for the high price y.. enough people buy it so it makes sense, once you realize people stop buying it you lower the price, and everybody who thinks that is a fair price will pay that amount.. and so on. it's actually a smart way of generating the max amount of profit.
using your example:
the first 50 people buy it for 10 -> 500 - after a month the price is lowered (as they did actually in reality) and the next bunch buys it for 6,5 -> 35*6,5 (the surplus of 35 people who thought 10 is too expensiv)-> then they sell it for 4 in 2 months from now to get another 30 people who think its worth that much.. everybody pays what he or she thinks it is worth (you only buy a product when you think its innate value is like what you pay for it)... only problem is, people might feel cheated if they bought it for much more... but by then they made a lot of cash already - or you can count on cognitive dissonance to take care of it
Well absorbing purchasing power is a great armchair business term, When you are in sales it gives your commissioned sales people a target to get them to get a better price. Or if you are in, say, pharmaceuticals, it gives you a good excuse to jack the price of your new drug to cover 'development' costs. Since you are the ONLY one who has this drug, then for a time you have a monopoly. This allows you to make every penny you can. But drugs are a life or death issue, and people wo have no choice will pay the price. I think its a moot point whether or not drug makers care more for their bottom lines than they do the welfare of their customers.
But this is a GAME. It's not life or death. In spite of all the zen pushing hype here I doubt anyone makes a commission from zen sales at PWE/Cryptic. We know and understand that like the drug makers, game makers have a large development lead in cost which they must recoup with sales. The question here is, is it smart to squeeze your early customers out of every penny until you FINALLY drop the price down to where the market will bear them. Everyone wants to quote those outrageous WOW prices to me. Yeah , NOW they scalp their cash fat players for all they want to pay. But they didn't START like that. Blizzard was small with ONE good title under its belt. They took a huge risk trying to make it an MMO. Just to get it off the ground there were considerable subscription discount orders, like phone carriers give new customers, and the few micro transactions were just that, micro transactions. Once they had that monster rolling... got the BUZZZ.... and it was a BIG buzz ... then they started soaking up profit. Its a classic online strategy.. remember America Online?
But look at all of the stumblers - the flops, Age of Conan, The (OMG!) SIMS ONLINE. They figured that EVERYONE would shell out the big bucks for the big names. If PWE/Cryptic assumes that wearing the D&D label here gives them a license to gouge, they are making a HUGE mistake. Far better to PRICE LOW EARLY and then bring your rates up to what the market will bear.....
Well said by the OP. Completely agree. Zen store pricing is LOL absurdly high.
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bioshrikeMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,729Arc User
edited June 2013
They could keep the current items they have, but they should add tons and tons of items in the 50-250 Zen range.
For instance, for 100 Zen you can buy a version of one of the 2G companions that is the same in every way, but is of a different race and gender, (they'd have 1 for each combination). Make it claimable only on 1 character and bind on equip.
For 50 Zen you can buy 1 vial of dye of the base colors, which is chosen randomly form them.
For 150 Zen you can by a set of "basic" off-duty clothes. These would be nicer looking than the scraps you're given for free, but nowhere near as fancy as the other packs. Basically just adapt some of the decent commoner clothing for player use.
For 250 Zen you can buy one of the regular 5G horses as an account-wide unlock.
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
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dirge1692Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 4Arc User
edited June 2013
I remember when Allods pulled the same greedy scam with their cash shop during beta, at least half the population walked away in disgust.
I'm not sure who the NW developers are listening to, but they're certainly not cultivating any player goodwill with those prices.
The ZEN model is exorbitant at best for little in exchange for RL moneys.If you make an ethereal item more affordable to more players you make more money.Its not rocket science,its just good business modeling.
I am trying to see it, but I simply cant see the advantage to starting higher?
Because some people consider the higher price to be acceptable and pay it. Then, after lowering the price, you get money form those who considered the higher price unacceptable. The goal there is to get as much money as possible from as large apercentage of the player base as possible.
If you start low then those willing to spend more on a given item will have paid less than they would have and so the paying customer base as a whole would have paid less. Ideally you start at the highest price where the product will sell and then lower prices incrementally to be able to sell to as many people, for as much money, as possible. You do have to be careful to not lower prices too rapidly or you end up training your customers to not buy your product until it goes on sale.
Then there is also the possibility of a scenario such as:
Lowering prices rarely has an exactly equal correlation to increased sales. So halving the price rarely exactly doubles sales as would be needed to keep revenue exactly the same.
Ideally, assuming that PWE's market research and analysis team is not completely incompetent, the prices are being set according to projected maximum return assumptions. If the actual numbers do not match those projections then prices will be adjusted accordingly.
The company's goal will be to find that sweet spot where the combination of an item's price and sales units maximizes revenue. Reducing the price does little for the company unless it produces at least an equal (and more desirably greater) increase in sales units as the reduction in price.
Ultimately, particularly as regards to luxury goods, the only price that is too high is one that people will not pay. If people are not paying these prices then they are very likely to come down. If they do not come down it is probably a pretty solid indication that people are paying said prices and that, by definition, they are not too high.
Comments
People always exaggerate the amount of AD they are able to accumulate, and it won't stop any time soon.
But at the end of the day, this is a free to play MMO (no subs) and the money to run it and develop it needs to come from somewhere. Are the prices for the items in the Zen store 'reasonable'? For me, the mounts are a bit OTT and I wish profession packs came with Robert granularity... But other than that I'm generally fine with the quality; needs a lot more quantity IMHO. For other people they are too expensive, for a large variety of reasons... No perspective is wrong, but perversely no perspective is right.
Would I like for the, to lower prices a bit more? Meh... I still have everything I need to enjoy the game without spending in the Zen store... Including all the end game loot I could want.
A city to protect
innocents to save
"Why?" They ask "they hate you"
We're heroes it's what we do.
*patiently waiting on Paragon City*
Ahhh at last.. among all the general angry griping and venting..... someone is THINKING. This , Antovaras, is PRECISELY the message I want PWE/Cryptic to hear. So listen up devs... In FTP you will make more money if you drop your price. There is no real 'cost factor' per unit here. It's all about volume of business. And as I have said before, it's WIN WIN....customers get more and so do you. Think about it.
"Sir, were now surrounded"!
Thats great news son, now we can attack from ALL sides"!
Well at least this one doesn’t just begin with the default assumption that you owe Cryptic for making this game. But it is shocking how very many people do indeed have that as their basic philosophy.
The money does have to come from somewhere, but that’s Cryptic’s problem, not yours or mine. It’s like that guy who snaps your picture out of the blue and then tries to force you to pay for it. He took your picture for free; selling the photo isn’t your concern.
Not that you shouldn’t spend money on the game. I spent money on City of Heroes all the time, on top of the sub. But it was because there was stuff that I wanted, stuff that was interesting. I wasn’t forced to buy it or face another 200 hours grinding. I wasn’t forced to buy it or give up progression in part of the game. I thought it was interesting and cool and so I bought it.
But now Cryptic seems to think you owe them for taking your picture. They want you to buy from them so they set up scenarios wherein you progress just far enough to have to buy something or face a future of grinding content and crafting 18-20 hour stretches with nothing to do. And somehow, people are feeling like its free players who aren’t doing their share.
I would buy something that was interesting enough to actually want. I wont gamble on a sucker’s bet or invest in scam offers designed to soak my money with what amounts to nothing in return.
You are supposed to be developing a game that captures my interest and attention Cryptic, not telling me to find the queen of spades.
This says it all. Every time I turn around, I am given reasons to be discouraged about this game, not reasons to spend money. I am bored with my current spec as a DC and want to try another, but I have to pay, but then I have to pay for bags, but wait..I am crafting too and stuck because I need to pay...too much I need to pay for...If I were to pay for all of it, well, I may as well go back to a game that will let me pay less and have it all...
I also think the Professions Asset Pack price is too high.
As for the dye packs, I don't have a problem with it. It's cosmetic, doesn't affect gameplay.
Completely agree. I think mount prices are fine since they are account-wise, but companions do work out fairly expensive since they are per character usually.
What makes me laugh is the pricing structures in the first place!
Make stuff cheaper... More people buy... More profit made...
Its such simple economics!! I can't for the life of me see why developers go down this expensive route.. It just makes NO sense!
Part 1: A Mysterious Portal: - NW-DIKGSOTWT
Part 2: Into the forest: Out now - NW DAVOJC8N7
Part 3: Through the portal: 50% Finished!
Part 4: Lvl 113
Does YOUR FOUNDRY need more plays? Try this thread: Click here
Easy answer. People PAY money, lots of money, because they need it NOW. Until people who have more money than sense stop dropping 200+ on a game in the first 10 minutes of playing then maybe...just maybe you will see a reduction in pricing.
But look at this as an example...
100 people want a mount... lets keep the math simple, and say a mount costs 10 bucks at current prices.
50 of those people buy one, other 50 say too expensive.
PWE make 500 bucks...
Now drop the price to 6.50 (this of course would be a HUGE drop - but better to promote my point)
and all of a sudden 85 people buy...
PWE makes 552 bucks!
It just makes NO sense to keep the prices high. This is simple rudimentary maths! Times this by the thousands of items, and combination of players and budgets they set themselves and dropping the prices ultimately makes MORE money.
Not to mention the younger people who play, who probably make a fair percentage of the player base. Most of these guys cant afford that much, they don't have full time income, let alone any 'disposable'. But I bet you if you surveyed 500 of them, a LARGE percentage would say they spend absolute zero on the game at the moment, simply because they cant afford it! Drop the prices, and you get thier money too!
I am no economist... but I have a fairly rational business head on my shoulders. If there are any real arguments out there that support the opposite of what I am saying here I'll gladly listen, and change my view if I am found to be wrong.
But to me, right now... I can see NO flaw in this. Lower prices ultimately makes more money.
Thanks for listening,
Art
Part 1: A Mysterious Portal: - NW-DIKGSOTWT
Part 2: Into the forest: Out now - NW DAVOJC8N7
Part 3: Through the portal: 50% Finished!
Part 4: Lvl 113
Does YOUR FOUNDRY need more plays? Try this thread: Click here
And just to mention off the top MC, tho I'm not gonna start a thread over it... lol one is enough thank you.. but the original plan was to impose an AD fee for unbinding pets so you could sell them or give them to another of your characters already trained... the devs have been absolutely mute on this issue.
Case, you should look at the big market numbers..cuz little twerpy games like Farmville are out earning some of the big boys ....
........... WITH 99 CENT TRANSACTIONS
Agreed!!! Things are WAY overpriced.
If I had to guess I'd say that was stuff you use or buy in Farmville.. I've never played it
10 bucks is not much support for a game you really seem to like.
Honestly, I don't see a reason for the existing big gap between F2P and +12 $ (which seems to be the average) subscription models. Why has no big publisher ever tried a 3.99/month or 19.99/6 month sub? O_o
well, i am not sure about the english term.. but basically its absorption of purchasing power.. you offer good x for the high price y.. enough people buy it so it makes sense, once you realize people stop buying it you lower the price, and everybody who thinks that is a fair price will pay that amount.. and so on. it's actually a smart way of generating the max amount of profit.
using your example:
the first 50 people buy it for 10 -> 500 - after a month the price is lowered (as they did actually in reality) and the next bunch buys it for 6,5 -> 35*6,5 (the surplus of 35 people who thought 10 is too expensiv)-> then they sell it for 4 in 2 months from now to get another 30 people who think its worth that much.. everybody pays what he or she thinks it is worth (you only buy a product when you think its innate value is like what you pay for it)... only problem is, people might feel cheated if they bought it for much more... but by then they made a lot of cash already
Lets use the same examples...
6.5 x 85 = 552 (so already here PWE would be UP 52 bucks as per my last example)
By your example... PWE would have made 500 bucks at this point, down 52.
Then they lower the prices.
They sell another 100 say at 6.50 = 650 bucks. Their grand total is now 1150.
So lets go back to my example...
650 (from a further 100 sales, because people would 'still' be buying because the prices are cheap) AND the initial 552... By my reckoning they are STILL up 52. They have gained NOTHING by starting at the higher price.
I am trying to see it, but I simply cant see the advantage to starting higher?
Of course the 'technical' side of making people spend when they see a price cut may indeed make this difference up... People are possibly more likely to spend when they see prices cut... We all understand that for sure.
For me the jury is still out, I am still not convinced.
Thanks for listening,
Art
Part 1: A Mysterious Portal: - NW-DIKGSOTWT
Part 2: Into the forest: Out now - NW DAVOJC8N7
Part 3: Through the portal: 50% Finished!
Part 4: Lvl 113
Does YOUR FOUNDRY need more plays? Try this thread: Click here
there is a price that you can calculate using market data on how much people are generally willing to spend. that is the price you want to hit eventually. you wont undercut it, unless the market changes. so, that price may be 4 or 6.5 - i dont know - for the sake of simplicity i was saying there is another bunch of people who think 6,5 is too high, and given a simple supply/demand curve 4 is the price you want to get.
so
scenario a:
they sell it at 6.5 -> a smaller amount of people are going to buy it for 6.5 (still more than for 10 ofc) = 85*6,5 = 552,5
people who would buy for 4 will not buy
scenario b:
50*10 = 500
35*6,5 = 227,5 -> if the data was to show that 6,5 is the price you think is the most profit can be made (amount of purchases*price is the highest (these are forcasts)) you keep it that way.. if not, you are going to lower it again to say 4.. the people buying it for 4 are the same people you claim they are losing currently because they are selling at 10 and not 6.5.
so, if the price is 4 -> 35 people who would NOT buy at 6.5 buy.. so that is additional profit
+ the marketing effects of something being on sale even though its still too expensive is a given anyway.. but i was speaking about profit maximisation and econs not marketing.. that is a whole different story.
The interesting point (IMO) is where the business end and the game end meet. Somewhere, there is a person (or a team) that converts business decisions into gameplay. That's a new field I think. That person/team got us the wonderful mechanics of paying for rez scrolls and healthstones (and made sure we needed them!)
Well absorbing purchasing power is a great armchair business term, When you are in sales it gives your commissioned sales people a target to get them to get a better price. Or if you are in, say, pharmaceuticals, it gives you a good excuse to jack the price of your new drug to cover 'development' costs. Since you are the ONLY one who has this drug, then for a time you have a monopoly. This allows you to make every penny you can. But drugs are a life or death issue, and people wo have no choice will pay the price. I think its a moot point whether or not drug makers care more for their bottom lines than they do the welfare of their customers.
But this is a GAME. It's not life or death. In spite of all the zen pushing hype here I doubt anyone makes a commission from zen sales at PWE/Cryptic. We know and understand that like the drug makers, game makers have a large development lead in cost which they must recoup with sales. The question here is, is it smart to squeeze your early customers out of every penny until you FINALLY drop the price down to where the market will bear them. Everyone wants to quote those outrageous WOW prices to me. Yeah , NOW they scalp their cash fat players for all they want to pay. But they didn't START like that. Blizzard was small with ONE good title under its belt. They took a huge risk trying to make it an MMO. Just to get it off the ground there were considerable subscription discount orders, like phone carriers give new customers, and the few micro transactions were just that, micro transactions. Once they had that monster rolling... got the BUZZZ.... and it was a BIG buzz
But look at all of the stumblers - the flops, Age of Conan, The (OMG!) SIMS ONLINE. They figured that EVERYONE would shell out the big bucks for the big names. If PWE/Cryptic assumes that wearing the D&D label here gives them a license to gouge, they are making a HUGE mistake. Far better to PRICE LOW EARLY and then bring your rates up to what the market will bear.....
For instance, for 100 Zen you can buy a version of one of the 2G companions that is the same in every way, but is of a different race and gender, (they'd have 1 for each combination). Make it claimable only on 1 character and bind on equip.
For 50 Zen you can buy 1 vial of dye of the base colors, which is chosen randomly form them.
For 150 Zen you can by a set of "basic" off-duty clothes. These would be nicer looking than the scraps you're given for free, but nowhere near as fancy as the other packs. Basically just adapt some of the decent commoner clothing for player use.
For 250 Zen you can buy one of the regular 5G horses as an account-wide unlock.
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
I'm not sure who the NW developers are listening to, but they're certainly not cultivating any player goodwill with those prices.
The ZEN model is exorbitant at best for little in exchange for RL moneys.If you make an ethereal item more affordable to more players you make more money.Its not rocket science,its just good business modeling.
Because some people consider the higher price to be acceptable and pay it. Then, after lowering the price, you get money form those who considered the higher price unacceptable. The goal there is to get as much money as possible from as large apercentage of the player base as possible.
If you start low then those willing to spend more on a given item will have paid less than they would have and so the paying customer base as a whole would have paid less. Ideally you start at the highest price where the product will sell and then lower prices incrementally to be able to sell to as many people, for as much money, as possible. You do have to be careful to not lower prices too rapidly or you end up training your customers to not buy your product until it goes on sale.
Then there is also the possibility of a scenario such as:
Price = $10, sell 100 units, = $1000 revenue
Price = $5, sell 150 units, = $750 revenue.
Lowering prices rarely has an exactly equal correlation to increased sales. So halving the price rarely exactly doubles sales as would be needed to keep revenue exactly the same.
Ideally, assuming that PWE's market research and analysis team is not completely incompetent, the prices are being set according to projected maximum return assumptions. If the actual numbers do not match those projections then prices will be adjusted accordingly.
The company's goal will be to find that sweet spot where the combination of an item's price and sales units maximizes revenue. Reducing the price does little for the company unless it produces at least an equal (and more desirably greater) increase in sales units as the reduction in price.
Ultimately, particularly as regards to luxury goods, the only price that is too high is one that people will not pay. If people are not paying these prices then they are very likely to come down. If they do not come down it is probably a pretty solid indication that people are paying said prices and that, by definition, they are not too high.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.