Yea. Thanks for the sympathy guys . Like i said. Even if i am wrong, which i clearly am, i still feel if i pay 20 euro's for an item i should at least be able to give it away.
But it looks like this practice of locking items is perfectly normal. Such a shame...
Society is overrwhelmed today with people looking for sympathy for stupid things. This is one of them
would create huge problems when selling them on the AH cause when you put it in there, its still yours and thus not removed from the other chars and thus you could put all your 20 horses in the AH in just a couple of seconds without haven them removed from the chars...and when one get bought, all others should vanish too but if they have already bids on them its not as easy as it sounds
so with making them unbound you basicly create huge problems while only making them tradable
That's actually a valid point. Im sure there they can make it so that the moment you place it up for sale in the AH, it is removed from all your characters. For every problem there is a solution.
It wouldnt be rocketscience to make accountwide items tradeable/giftable. You just need to make sure it's not exploitable, which can be done as suggested above.
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
I doenst have to work that way. Let me specify:
...
Thats not so hard to think of, or am i missing something?
Complicated coding which would reduce sales.
Call it greedy if you want but that's just simple economics. Anything they spend time on has to be justified by either making money or appeasing players enough to keep them playing. All that idea would do is reduce the number of mounts being purchased through the cash shop.
Lets say, for instance, I have a Worg right now. In a few months that epic looking Winter Wolf I wanted can be purchased. Sweet!
I buy the Winter Wolf and sell the Worg to another player.
Now instead of Selling two Worgs and a Winter Wolf they only sold one of each.
Multiply that by the amount of people who will eventually want to change mounts. At some point in the future mounts would simply end up so plentiful people would trade them between each other and mount sales would only occur if a player was new to the game.
I will say, though, that I feel after your initial mount purchase the price should go down since you are, in essence, merely paying for a skin rather than a service.
Agreed. Making it possible would require time and effort in coding. I can understand PWE being hesitant about that.
What i sincerely do not understand is this though: Wouldn't the person buying the 'secondhand' mount need to have spend RL money to be able to get enough AD to purchase the mount from the first owner? Maybe not as much as buying it with Zen, as the secondhand price would be a bit lower, but still a reasonable amount of RL cash/zen would be needed to get hundreds of thousands of AD.
I doenst have to work that way. Let me specify:
1. pay once for the mount
2. redeem it on every charslot you have
3. sell one mount ingame -> The mount is removed from all your Characters and no longer available for free on your account. It is now Free for all characters on the buyers account.
4. relog and sell the second mount -> No longer possible as a result of selling as specified in the previous step.
Thats not so hard to think of, or am i missing something?
Just seems unnecessary. Not to mention it would lead to even more confusion.
Right now there are two distinct types of mounts, sold through two distinct venues:
1. The regular item mounts that you can trade like any other item.
2. The Zen mount / account-wide unlock.
If you go to the auction house and see a mount for sale, you know that if you buy that you will have one (1) mount. Because you're just buying an item like any other item. With your proposed changes, how is someone supposed to know whether they're buy a mount or an account wide mount unlock? If you got confused even though they're in two completely separate places and clearly marked as untradable, how do you expect people to cope with two completely different types of mount being available in the same place?
It's just a pointless addition of burden of knowledge.
And what for?
There are tradable mounts already. You can even buy them with Zen, indirectly, by selling Zen in the exchange.
I guess I just don't see the problem that you're trying to solve here.
What i sincerely do not understand is this though: Wouldn't the person buying the 'secondhand' mount need to have spend RL money to be able to get enough AD to purchase the mount from the first owner? Maybe not as much as buying it with Zen, as the secondhand price would be a bit lower, but still a reasonable amount of RL cash/zen would be needed to get hundreds of thousands of AD.
Not at all. Lots of people complain that you can't make AD without paying in this game.
I find those people lack imagination.
I've made at least 2 to 3 million AD in the last three or four days.
Lol.. i guess i need to cave in to the pressure of arguments .
What it boils down to is this: the problem i am still having with all of this is the fact that i bought something and i cannot do with it as i see fit, including giving it away.
Its like the whole DRM issue on music/movies, where digital media would only be playable on a number of devices, where analog media like a compact disc can be given away and sold as the owner sees fit. I guess that's my problem with this situation.
Not that i was mislead or ripped off or anything, it was my own mistake. It's more a matter of principle.
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
Wouldn't the person buying the 'secondhand' mount need to have spend RL money to be able to get enough AD to purchase the mount from the first owner? Maybe not as much as buying it with Zen, as the secondhand price would be a bit lower, but still a reasonable amount of RL cash/zen would be needed to get hundreds of thousands of AD.
Not necessarily. AD is an earned currency and while you can purchase it with Zen it's not necessarily the case. Somebody has to earn that AD to begin with...
Plus the point is more along the lines that eventually as mounts become more common players would eventually be able to sell and buy them nearly exclusively between each other instead of buying them from the shop. The way it is set up right now dictates everybody who has a mount had to purchase that mount. If you want a different skin for a mount you have to purchase both even though you only need one.
With your system, and the knowledge that people only need one, the mount sales would reduce drastically in time.
Lol.. i guess i need to cave in to the pressure of arguments .
What it boils down to is this: the problem i am still having with all of this is the fact that i bought something and i cannot do with it as i see fit, including giving it away.
Its like the whole DRM issue on music/movies, where digital media would only be playable on a number of devices, where analog media like a compact disc can be given away and sold as the owner sees fit. I guess that's my problem with this situation.
Not that i was mislead or ripped off or anything, it was my own mistake. It's more a matter of principle.
Don't misunderstand my disagreements... I do empathize.
It really sucks to lose that much to a simple mistake. And mistakes like that can happen to anyone. Do try to ask them to refund the purchase like ambi suggested... I don't see why they wouldn't at least undo the purchase and give you the Zen back so you can spend it on something else. Doesn't cost them anything.
The only thing I disagree with is changing the way Zen mounts work. They are the way they are for a reason. And a lot of people, myself included, like them that way. I think you're just looking at it from the wrong angle because you had a bad experience with it. Consider that they made Zen mounts that way so that we wouldn't have to buy one for every character we make. We can just buy it once and never worry about it again, no matter how many alts we make. It's very convenient.
I don't understand the sentiment on this thread. Any proper business would refund the transaction or allow the item to be moved. The customer is always right.
Maybe the guy should have read the thing more carefully, but at the end of the day, he is the customer. If I bought the wrong item at a store I'd be able to exchange it or get a refund. It should be even easier to accommodate him here because it was a digital transaction!
I don't understand the sentiment on this thread. Any proper business would refund the transaction or allow the item to be moved. The customer is always right.
Anyone that has ever owned a successful business knows that the highlighted portion is simply incorrect.
Not only that, but most online "in-game" purchases are never refundable in any MMO I've ever played
When you buy a mount from the Zen store it is an account unlock. That means any character you own can claim that mount at any time. The mounts can also be discarded at any time and claimed for free from the store West of Sgt Knox. For instance I have the PC Gamer, Guardian of Neverwinter and Hero of the North Mounts. At any time if I get bored of one I can discard it and reclaim a different one from the shop free of charge.
They can't be tradeable. They are not a single item. They are free for an unlimited amount of time on an unlimited amount of characters.
This is a bit awkward, but I don't think you even read his (or my) post or comprehended it at all.
To be fair, I think he meant to say "keep creating characters"... but you wouldn't even need to do that.
Here's how it works: You don't buy the horse. You unlock it for your account. IE, you buy the "license to get that horse". After unlocking it, the price of that horse in the Zen shop changes from whatever it was to "Free". Now you can go into the Zen shop at any time, on any character on that account, and double-click that horse and... presto, you have it in your bag. And then you can log on your alt, and double-click it there, and now you have the horse in your alt's bag. Now maybe you're mad at the horse, so you destroy it. And then you go and double-click it in the Zen shop and get a fresh new horse.
Get the picture?
Pay once -> get infinite amount of horses on demand.
An infinite supply of horses that were supposed to cost a bunch of zen for each account means that there's no reason for anyone to buy horses through the cash shop. It also makes every other non-CS mount obsolete and ****s up the economy (because the people doint that have an infinite supply of income, until there are more mounts than people and the economy crashes).
So being able to create and sell hundreds of horses, with little more then a few minutes of work, is not a problem? An endless, effortless, source of unlimited cash, just isn't an issue for you? I do not think you understand the problem.
There is a reason you cant trade them.
I guess it's less of an issue of reading comprehension and more of a problem of being pedantic. Obviously I meant the horses being a one-time purchase instead of an account unlock. Maybe people should use their brains for a second instead of being in such a rush to fire a reply off.
Even if you are technically correct, that does not mean i am not feeling cheated. Bottom line still is i lost 20 dollars for a heavilly restricted item. That spoils the fun for me, even if it is perfecly legal for them to make it so. Instead of the absence of a line saying 'can be traded' there could have been a line saying 'Cannot be traded/sold/given away' or something along that lines.
This is why I am so glad I haven't had to deal with the customer side of business for the last 20 years.
"While you're technically correct, I am still going to ***** and moan until you fix my screw up."
Anyone that has ever owned a successful business knows that the highlighted portion is simply incorrect.
Not only that, but most online "in-game" purchases are never refundable in any MMO I've ever played
The common saying isn't necessary for my point. It was just an illustration of the accepted conventional wisdom. Obviously, like most categorical statements, it's not true. But the point stands. The guy should be able to get a refund or fix his transaction to what he originally intended. Any successful business would do at least that, regardless of "policy."
It is irrelevant what most in-game purchases are like in other MMOs. The policy is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> there, and it would be anywhere. If players wouldn't tolerate the customer treatment we are subjected to, especially when it comes to these kinds of transactions, it would stop. They are a business and they exist to serve customers. They only get away with substandard practices because we let them.
When you want to make a gift, buy it from the AH (or take a look at it), if someone is selling it then you know you can trade it. All lockbox items can be traded. And there is a horse in it.
Anyone that has ever owned a successful business knows that the highlighted portion is simply incorrect.
Not only that, but most online "in-game" purchases are never refundable in any MMO I've ever played
While I agree the highlighted portion "The customer is always right" is incorrect, jorderon is right that any proper business would refund this transaction (and for clarity, that includes game companies who regularly refund for online/in-game purchases made in error).
A little goodwill goes a long way and PWE lose nothing by reversing this transaction. What they gain is a happy customer, prepared to continue to do business with them.
The common saying isn't necessary for my point. It was just an illustration of the accepted conventional wisdom. Obviously, like most categorical statements, it's not true. But the point stands. The guy should be able to get a refund or fix his transaction to what he originally intended. Any successful business would do at least that, regardless of "policy."
It is irrelevant what most in-game purchases are like in other MMOs. The policy is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> there, and it would be anywhere. If players wouldn't tolerate the customer treatment we are subjected to, especially when it comes to these kinds of transactions, it would stop. They are a business and they exist to serve customers. They only get away with substandard practices because we let them.
The oneous is on the customer. If you can't read what you are buying, then you have no business buying it. It isn't a stupid policy, it's a policy designed to generate income which is the ultimate goal of every company as opposed to catering to every princess that thinks the world revolves around them. You don't know what a substandard practice is then, because your definition is laughably absurd. Of course it is relevant, we are on a forum for an MMO, talking about buying a virtual good in MMO and what MMOs policies are regarding virtual items. It doesn't get more relevant then that.
Proper businesses apparently doen't include thousands of online games that sell virtual goods. I'm sure they are crying as much as the OP at your flawed definition. I get that you believe you are some type of consumer advocate super hero wannabe, unfortuantely the grown up world doesn't work the way you want it to. Hilarious
I just think you are using the wrong word - I think "frustrated" is a better word. And i don't blame you - that sounds like something I would do. You should be able to at least sell the thing back at a loss.
Yea. Thanks for the sympathy guys . Like i said. Even if i am wrong, which i clearly am, i still feel if i pay 20 euro's for an item i should at least be able to give it away.
But it looks like this practice of locking items is perfectly normal. Such a shame...
Seriously DUDE . Just because you were too cheep to get her that sechy nightmare stallion she wanted is no reason to cry on the forums . the nightmare is not account bound its a one use , perfect for gifting mount .
I hope you do a better job researching diamonds before you buy her ring .
I guess you are right. The mistake was mine, i must have not payed enough attention. Still the post from cinj216 above yours pretty much sums up how i see it. I may not be cheated/mislead or ripped off, but it does leave a sour taste how i cannot give something i already payed for away.
The game devs learnt a long *** time ago that passing 'their currency' across accounts also led to people getting around paying them real - $
Seriously DUDE . Just because you were too cheep to get her that sechy nightmare stallion she wanted is no reason to cry on the forums . the nightmare is not account bound its a one use , perfect for gifting mount .
I hope you do a better job researching diamonds before you buy her ring .
Comments
Society is overrwhelmed today with people looking for sympathy for stupid things. This is one of them
That's actually a valid point. Im sure there they can make it so that the moment you place it up for sale in the AH, it is removed from all your characters. For every problem there is a solution.
It wouldnt be rocketscience to make accountwide items tradeable/giftable. You just need to make sure it's not exploitable, which can be done as suggested above.
Complicated coding which would reduce sales.
Call it greedy if you want but that's just simple economics. Anything they spend time on has to be justified by either making money or appeasing players enough to keep them playing. All that idea would do is reduce the number of mounts being purchased through the cash shop.
Lets say, for instance, I have a Worg right now. In a few months that epic looking Winter Wolf I wanted can be purchased. Sweet!
I buy the Winter Wolf and sell the Worg to another player.
Now instead of Selling two Worgs and a Winter Wolf they only sold one of each.
Multiply that by the amount of people who will eventually want to change mounts. At some point in the future mounts would simply end up so plentiful people would trade them between each other and mount sales would only occur if a player was new to the game.
I will say, though, that I feel after your initial mount purchase the price should go down since you are, in essence, merely paying for a skin rather than a service.
What i sincerely do not understand is this though: Wouldn't the person buying the 'secondhand' mount need to have spend RL money to be able to get enough AD to purchase the mount from the first owner? Maybe not as much as buying it with Zen, as the secondhand price would be a bit lower, but still a reasonable amount of RL cash/zen would be needed to get hundreds of thousands of AD.
Just seems unnecessary. Not to mention it would lead to even more confusion.
Right now there are two distinct types of mounts, sold through two distinct venues:
1. The regular item mounts that you can trade like any other item.
2. The Zen mount / account-wide unlock.
If you go to the auction house and see a mount for sale, you know that if you buy that you will have one (1) mount. Because you're just buying an item like any other item. With your proposed changes, how is someone supposed to know whether they're buy a mount or an account wide mount unlock? If you got confused even though they're in two completely separate places and clearly marked as untradable, how do you expect people to cope with two completely different types of mount being available in the same place?
It's just a pointless addition of burden of knowledge.
And what for?
There are tradable mounts already. You can even buy them with Zen, indirectly, by selling Zen in the exchange.
I guess I just don't see the problem that you're trying to solve here.
EDIT:
Not at all. Lots of people complain that you can't make AD without paying in this game.
I find those people lack imagination.
I've made at least 2 to 3 million AD in the last three or four days.
What it boils down to is this: the problem i am still having with all of this is the fact that i bought something and i cannot do with it as i see fit, including giving it away.
Its like the whole DRM issue on music/movies, where digital media would only be playable on a number of devices, where analog media like a compact disc can be given away and sold as the owner sees fit. I guess that's my problem with this situation.
Not that i was mislead or ripped off or anything, it was my own mistake. It's more a matter of principle.
Not necessarily. AD is an earned currency and while you can purchase it with Zen it's not necessarily the case. Somebody has to earn that AD to begin with...
Plus the point is more along the lines that eventually as mounts become more common players would eventually be able to sell and buy them nearly exclusively between each other instead of buying them from the shop. The way it is set up right now dictates everybody who has a mount had to purchase that mount. If you want a different skin for a mount you have to purchase both even though you only need one.
With your system, and the knowledge that people only need one, the mount sales would reduce drastically in time.
Don't misunderstand my disagreements... I do empathize.
It really sucks to lose that much to a simple mistake. And mistakes like that can happen to anyone. Do try to ask them to refund the purchase like ambi suggested... I don't see why they wouldn't at least undo the purchase and give you the Zen back so you can spend it on something else. Doesn't cost them anything.
The only thing I disagree with is changing the way Zen mounts work. They are the way they are for a reason. And a lot of people, myself included, like them that way. I think you're just looking at it from the wrong angle because you had a bad experience with it. Consider that they made Zen mounts that way so that we wouldn't have to buy one for every character we make. We can just buy it once and never worry about it again, no matter how many alts we make. It's very convenient.
Maybe the guy should have read the thing more carefully, but at the end of the day, he is the customer. If I bought the wrong item at a store I'd be able to exchange it or get a refund. It should be even easier to accommodate him here because it was a digital transaction!
Anyone that has ever owned a successful business knows that the highlighted portion is simply incorrect.
Not only that, but most online "in-game" purchases are never refundable in any MMO I've ever played
I guess it's less of an issue of reading comprehension and more of a problem of being pedantic. Obviously I meant the horses being a one-time purchase instead of an account unlock. Maybe people should use their brains for a second instead of being in such a rush to fire a reply off.
This is why I am so glad I haven't had to deal with the customer side of business for the last 20 years.
"While you're technically correct, I am still going to ***** and moan until you fix my screw up."
The common saying isn't necessary for my point. It was just an illustration of the accepted conventional wisdom. Obviously, like most categorical statements, it's not true. But the point stands. The guy should be able to get a refund or fix his transaction to what he originally intended. Any successful business would do at least that, regardless of "policy."
It is irrelevant what most in-game purchases are like in other MMOs. The policy is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> there, and it would be anywhere. If players wouldn't tolerate the customer treatment we are subjected to, especially when it comes to these kinds of transactions, it would stop. They are a business and they exist to serve customers. They only get away with substandard practices because we let them.
While I agree the highlighted portion "The customer is always right" is incorrect, jorderon is right that any proper business would refund this transaction (and for clarity, that includes game companies who regularly refund for online/in-game purchases made in error).
A little goodwill goes a long way and PWE lose nothing by reversing this transaction. What they gain is a happy customer, prepared to continue to do business with them.
The oneous is on the customer. If you can't read what you are buying, then you have no business buying it. It isn't a stupid policy, it's a policy designed to generate income which is the ultimate goal of every company as opposed to catering to every princess that thinks the world revolves around them. You don't know what a substandard practice is then, because your definition is laughably absurd. Of course it is relevant, we are on a forum for an MMO, talking about buying a virtual good in MMO and what MMOs policies are regarding virtual items. It doesn't get more relevant then that.
Proper businesses apparently doen't include thousands of online games that sell virtual goods. I'm sure they are crying as much as the OP at your flawed definition. I get that you believe you are some type of consumer advocate super hero wannabe, unfortuantely the grown up world doesn't work the way you want it to. Hilarious
Beating a dead horse.
I'm so sorry
Give her your dik, thats what she wants anyways. Not some fake *** horse
I hope you do a better job researching diamonds before you buy her ring .
The game devs learnt a long *** time ago that passing 'their currency' across accounts also led to people getting around paying them real - $
This just this (are my 10 chars done?)