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Con (GWF) and Dex (GF) are now addative to Armor Penetration

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  • urlagurlag Member Posts: 68
    edited June 2013
    @adinosoulwood (and any1 else that keeps posting this question)
    CON does not grant armor pen
    CON grants you more resistance ignored (which is what armor pen grants)

    the armor pen total on char sheet is the total of ARMOR PENETRATION you have
    the total resistance ignored when you hover over armor pen on char sheet is the total from only armor pen

    the only stat that isn't represented on char sheet that has both a flat bonus and a rating is "total resistance ignored" (flat bonus = CON, rating = armor pen)

    again, BOTH con and armor pen grant resistance ignored. the spot on char sheet that says armor pen is a total of your armor pen, and since con increases resistance ignored, and not armor pen, it isn't listed under armor pen

    and btw, it's not that hard to add the total from CON and the total from armor pen together, not hard at all
  • angrypakosangrypakos Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    im upset i still cant open my thread ... but ok ..
    2 cases :

    first:
    I'd like to ask if I took it correctly
    i got 16 cons so to get caps i need :
    1747 arp - hard one
    3000 recovery - soft
    3000 (or maybe more ? ) critical - soft
    power > as much as i can

    second :
    everyone are talking about max number of targets ... for which skills its accure, which are free to use against ie. 15 adds, and where this information came from ??
  • adhal81adhal81 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 115 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    angrypakos wrote: »
    im upset i still cant open my thread ... but ok ..
    2 cases :

    first:
    I'd like to ask if I took it correctly
    i got 16 cons so to get caps i need :
    1747 arp - hard one
    3000 recovery - soft
    3000 (or maybe more ? ) critical - soft
    power > as much as i can

    second :
    everyone are talking about max number of targets ... for which skills its accure, which are free to use against ie. 15 adds, and where this information came from ??

    1. Pretty much correct. I'd go a little higher on crit and recovery, but either way it won't make a huge difference.

    2. Only skill that is not capped at 5 to my knowledge is slam.
  • omniblast1985omniblast1985 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 12
    edited June 2013
    How does the Constitution Focus feat add to this? the 15% bonus.
  • sanctumlolsanctumlol Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 382 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    adhal81 wrote: »
    1. Pretty much correct. I'd go a little higher on crit and recovery, but either way it won't make a huge difference.

    2. Only skill that is not capped at 5 to my knowledge is slam.

    If anything, crit is way too high. Recovery at 3k is fine.
  • th0rfinnth0rfinn Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 119 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    How does student of the sword and plaguefire affect the enemy defenses?
  • angrypakosangrypakos Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I still cant belive we cant hurt more than 5 mobs as ... AoE dps class o.O
    u know any easy way to test it ?
  • adhal81adhal81 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 115 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    Go to icespire peak, find the large packs of goblins at the start, hit an ability and watch how many take damage or die
  • adhal81adhal81 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 115 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    sanctumlol wrote: »
    If anything, crit is way too high. Recovery at 3k is fine.

    Which is why I said it wont matter much, by the time you get those stats your power is going to be over 4k just from gear as well so everything is well into DR
  • adinosoulwoodadinosoulwood Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 82
    edited June 2013
    I am not sure and I have not tested it, but from my last damage runs it seems the mob cap has been increased. I get so many numbers thrown at me on the screen now that it is hard to count. I will look at a log the next time I do a dungeon (if anyone groups with me). If someone wants to go test it out and lets us know, I would appreciate at it.
  • freehugs9freehugs9 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 201 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    How does the Constitution Focus feat add to this? the 15% bonus.

    I'd love to test it if someone wants to give me the diamonds for two respecs. ;)
  • angrypakosangrypakos Member Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    ok i testes caps .. they are at most of our common skills like roar, WMS or IBS (and yes they are around 5 ...) i didnt test slam, and not-so-fast cos i was to disappointed.
  • yeruneyerune Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    angrypakos wrote: »
    ok i testes caps .. they are at most of our common skills like roar, WMS or IBS (and yes they are around 5 ...) i didnt test slam, and not-so-fast cos i was to disappointed.

    That actually sucks very bad. That means most of the personal powers regarding multiple enemies are useless. It's great to get a damage bonus when hitting more that 3 mobs, but when there's more than 5 I'm not hitting any of them?

    That doesn't make sense.
  • revenclave1revenclave1 Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Sorry just to clarify 2 qns

    1) so as a 15 Con GWF, i just need 1853 Armor Penetration to max cap mob migitation from 24% to 0 ?

    2) if i have max cap mob migitation, do i still need to use WMS for the debuff for sure strike/wicked strike ?

    Thanks
  • belladanbelladan Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 146 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    1) Both yes and no. Without SoTs, all your attacks against mobs that are not buffed in any way (like say... combat advantage), then according to people's math, 1850ish is the number you want. If you feat into Con effectiveness, I'll assume you need a bit less then that.

    2) Learn to read your feat information.
  • ayrouxayroux Member Posts: 4,271 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    belladan wrote: »
    1) Both yes and no. Without SoTs, all your attacks against mobs that are not buffed in any way (like say... combat advantage), then according to people's math, 1850ish is the number you want. If you feat into Con effectiveness, I'll assume you need a bit less then that.

    2) Learn to read your feat information.

    Ok this is a serious **** question, what is "combat advantage"

    Also, are you saying SotS is ineffective if you at capped? you cant reduce further? I thought you COULD and it was like plaguefire in that its all addative to reduce mitigation...

    Also do you happen to know arp/con in reference to PVP?
  • keobiaakeobiaa Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Plaguefire and SOTS both reduce defense, previously(pre-balance patch) plaguefire was reducing armour but it was fixed.

    As for the other guys question, everything a GWF has is target capped at 5 apart from two abilities, avalanche of steel and mighty leap.
  • drunclesdruncles Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    freehugs9 wrote: »
    This is a public service announcement. ^_^

    Your enemies in PvE have mitigation ranging from 12.8% (e.g. archer trash mobs) to 24% (e.g. all bosses), so how much Armor Penetration do you need?
    Con (GWF) or Dex (GF) of 10, between 1271 and 2536 for 12.8% to 24%
    Con (GWF) or Dex (GF) of 11, between 1190 and 2374 for 12.8% to 24%
    Con (GWF) or Dex (GF) of 12, between 1110 and 2227 for 12.8% to 24%
    Con (GWF) or Dex (GF) of 13, between 1033 and 2092 for 12.8% to 24%
    Con (GWF) or Dex (GF) of 14, between 956 and 1969 for 12.8% to 24%
    Con (GWF) or Dex (GF) of 15, between 879 and 1854 for 12.8% to 24%
    Con (GWF) or Dex (GF) of 16, between 802 and 1747 for 12.8% to 24%
    Con (GWF) or Dex (GF) of 17, between 724 and 1646 for 12.8% to 24%
    Con (GWF) or Dex (GF) of 18, between 643 and 1550 for 12.8% to 24%
    Con (GWF) or Dex (GF) of 19, between 559 and 1459 for 12.8% to 24%
    Con (GWF) or Dex (GF) of 20, between 467 and 1371 for 12.8% to 24%
    Con (GWF) or Dex (GF) of 21, between 364 and 1287 for 12.8% to 24%
    Con (GWF) or Dex (GF) of 22, between 233 and 1206 for 12.8% to 24%
    Con (GWF) or Dex (GF) of 23, between 0 and 1126 for 12.8% to 24%
    Con (GWF) or Dex (GF) of 24, between 0 and 1048 for 12.8% to 24%
    Con (GWF) or Dex (GF) of 25, between 0 and 971 for 12.8% to 24%

    <Bump this thread if you find it helpful, so that other people see it>

    So based on the above table what would be the sweet spot for amount of Con needed based on End Game gear ArP stats? As i just made my GWF i don't know how prevalent ArP is on the gear. At 60 is 15 Con too low? Would 20 be a waste?
  • ayrouxayroux Member Posts: 4,271 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    druncles wrote: »
    So based on the above table what would be the sweet spot for amount of Con needed based on End Game gear ArP stats? As i just made my GWF i don't know how prevalent ArP is on the gear. At 60 is 15 Con too low? Would 20 be a waste?

    Its whatever you want... Its just saying if your con is X this is your arp needed... If you get low con (14-15) and got str or dex... instead of picking up crit enchants or power enchants get arp enchants... Really doesnt matter that much honestly since you can balance with enchants.

    I honestly prefer high con for more hp and arp so I can slot crit/tene/ or w.e I want... for PVE added HP is really pointless cause most likely you wont be tanking...
  • grifterecgrifterec Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 82
    edited June 2013
    keobiaa wrote: »
    Plaguefire and SOTS both reduce defense, previously(pre-balance patch) plaguefire was reducing armour but it was fixed.

    As for the other guys question, everything a GWF has is target capped at 5 apart from two abilities, avalanche of steel and mighty leap.

    Almost 100% certain slam hits everything
  • keobiaakeobiaa Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    grifterec wrote: »
    Almost 100% certain slam hits everything

    It does not.
  • modimormodimor Member Posts: 198 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    Plaguefire and WMS stacks????
  • urlagurlag Member Posts: 68
    edited June 2013
    plaguefire (only the highest resistance deduction applies, the dot's all do dmg though) and student of the sword (1st tier feat that reduces resistance ignored by 15% stacking up to 3 (45%), debuff lasts 5 secs. only applied/refreshed on criticals) stack for all party members.
    WMS dmg % increase for all at-wills (and encounters if feated for it in destroyer tree) stacks with the above 2, but it ONLY APPLIES TO THE PERSON THAT ATTACKED WITH WMS.

    just a clarification
  • ayrouxayroux Member Posts: 4,271 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    ayroux wrote: »
    Ok this is a serious **** question, what is "combat advantage"

    Also, are you saying SotS is ineffective if you at capped? you cant reduce further? I thought you COULD and it was like plaguefire in that its all addative to reduce mitigation...

    Also do you happen to know arp/con in reference to PVP?

    Im still curious about "combat advantage" I keep seeing it everywhere and even passives that say it will reduce others CA against you. what is combat advantage and how does it apply? If so the combat advantage feat that gives you 5% more crit is amazing..

    Also, so a greater plague fire basically is useless if you have sots because they do the same thing and the GPF will only "override" that for a longer lasting buff? Instead of stacking for (45% + 45% = 90%)
  • freehugs9freehugs9 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 201 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    ayroux wrote: »
    Im still curious about "combat advantage" I keep seeing it everywhere and even passives that say it will reduce others CA against you. what is combat advantage and how does it apply? If so the combat advantage feat that gives you 5% more crit is amazing..

    Also, so a greater plague fire basically is useless if you have sots because they do the same thing and the GPF will only "override" that for a longer lasting buff? Instead of stacking for (45% + 45% = 90%)

    Combat Advantage is a 15% damage bonus you get when flanking. If you look at your enemies as you're attacking them you'll notice a thin colored arc appear behind them (I think it's purple). That arc gives anyone standing in it Combat Advantage. So if there's players on both sides, they give each other an arc to stand in and they both deal extra damage thanks to each other. Some feats and abilities also give Combat Advantage under certain conditions.

    Plaguefire and Student of the Sword should stack with each other, but not with themselves. So if 5 people in the party all have Greater Plaguefire, only one of those debuffs is applying to each mob, although they all get the extra damage.
    The damage bonus from these effects are unrelated to Armor Penetration and don't actually seem to have anything to do with Defense. As far as I can tell they're a % damage bonus that has little to do with the % stated on the ability.
  • mconosrepmconosrep Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    freehugs9 wrote: »
    Combat Advantage is a 15% damage bonus you get when flanking.

    So does the boost from an additional CHR point add 1% to 15% making it 16% or just add 1% of 15% making it 15.15%? Because if the former than a Tiefling seems a pretty good choice.
  • ayrouxayroux Member Posts: 4,271 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    freehugs9 wrote: »
    Combat Advantage is a 15% damage bonus you get when flanking. If you look at your enemies as you're attacking them you'll notice a thin colored arc appear behind them (I think it's purple). That arc gives anyone standing in it Combat Advantage. So if there's players on both sides, they give each other an arc to stand in and they both deal extra damage thanks to each other. Some feats and abilities also give Combat Advantage under certain conditions.

    Plaguefire and Student of the Sword should stack with each other, but not with themselves. So if 5 people in the party all have Greater Plaguefire, only one of those debuffs is applying to each mob, although they all get the extra damage.
    The damage bonus from these effects are unrelated to Armor Penetration and don't actually seem to have anything to do with Defense. As far as I can tell they're a % damage bonus that has little to do with the % stated on the ability.

    Thanks for the info. So combat advantage can be useful but not worth spending points into buffing it...

    Does anyone know the arp cap for pvp? is it the same 23-24%?
  • etherealjetherealj Member Posts: 1,091 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    ayroux wrote: »
    Thanks for the info. So combat advantage can be useful but not worth spending points into buffing it...

    Does anyone know the arp cap for pvp? is it the same 23-24%?

    50% or so for guardian fighters :D
    Use the <removed exploit lead-in> to interact with the auction vendor.
  • fimcontefimconte Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    I think 20-25% (tops) ArP is optimal for PvP, unless you know you'll face 4 tank comps.
    Fans Glory to the Gladiators,
    Gods Glory to the Heroes.

    TR:Anirul Corrino@Fimconte
    GF:Irulan Corrino@Fimconte
  • freehugs9freehugs9 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 201 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    mconosrep wrote: »
    So does the boost from an additional CHR point add 1% to 15% making it 16% or just add 1% of 15% making it 15.15%? Because if the former than a Tiefling seems a pretty good choice.

    15.15%, if it even works. I've actually been meaning to retest this since they fixed the Armor Pentration boost from Dex/Con, but at the last test the bonus form Charisma did little to nothing.
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