Matcher doesn't consider GWF as Tank

islee

Hey there, folks. I just wanted to bring attention to the fact that the dungeon finder always considers GWF's as dps. We got all sorts of buffs to our tanking capability (I respecced mine to tank, and she makes my GF look squishy), but the matcher will always match us with a second tank if it can. Could we address this?

khatzhas

Sentinel GWFs got a lot of boosts to their offtanking capability. That doesn't mean tat they are capable of operating as main tanks however.

They can be very tough in bursts through use of Daring Shout, Unstoppable etc. Being tough is only part of the requirement for tanking however. Unless you overgear the rest of your party to a fairly large extent, you won't be able to hold aggro however.

nornsavant

GWF's primary role is damage dealer. They are secondary defenders. I suppose the matcher is just looking at the primary role?

http://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/Great_Weapon_Fighter

islee

I've noticed that I really struggle with threat. On big aoe pulls, it's no big deal because i can easily hold everything they aren't hitting, but on single target it's really hard. With how tough we can be, I just wish the threat was there so we could main tank; I figured it was just me, and that I could fix something in my build to generate more. That would give everyone faster queues. After popping everything, I jumped up to 9,000 defense on top of my nearly 40% deflect, just hilarious.

alaerick

I think the problems GWF face is a bit more complex than just the queue issues. Our AOE At Wills and Encounter abilities need some love. After all we are the AOE class and right now I rarely want to hit an AOE ability because the damage or other effect makes it painful or pointless to use in most cases. Either way you look at it GWF need some major love.. They really are the red headed step child of pvp and typically worst damage dealer in any equally geared and skilled team. Rogues destroy our damage, Mages have better mobility, CC and damage.. And well I am just going to take a guess that the Ranger will be more of the same.. leaving GWF as the very bottom of the dps chart, one of the worst classes in pvp without sick gear and sticking to only one exact build setup to be effective in short burst scenarios.

First and foremost the GWF I feel should be given a slight system tweak that is sort of like how the mages (TAB) ability works but different. For a GWF here's how I think it should work. Each passive (Class Feature) should add a new effect to all encounter and at will abilities allowing for the mix-n-matching of two extra bonus effects. Each Class feature slotted has a particular bonus and use.. From what I've seen tho most opt for the same two at end game no matter what they are doing pvp or pve unless they are trying to off tank because everyone wants more determination gains to be even remotely effective and oh yeah.. crit crit crit or forget it.. So having said that I'll use one of our class abilities as an example below (See Reaping Strike) to show how some tweaks might spice things up a bit and make other passives worth using.

Reaping Strike should be changed drastically. I know it adds to our determination but at what cost? Moving so slow you can't position yourself well enough to use it and doing abysmal damage if you do hit? Let's face it it's the attack that is basically worthless from level 2-60. Here's some suggestions for it..

Reaping strike. I think the best way to fix reaping strike is making it's effect be changed by which class features are active. Such as Destroyer gives a LARGE Damage boost, Steadfast determination gives the increased determination gains & Movement speed buff after using it, Bravery gives a big boost to defense & movement speed buff while using it & threat generation buff lasting 3s per stack up to a max of 3 stacks for a few seconds after use or make the time flat bonus and the amount of threat based on 3 stacks, Weapon master makes it have the instant no charge up requirement and bonus chance to crit, etc. This same type of situation should be applied to every ability but especially this one as it is literally the only other ability we have for AOE for half the game at the very least..

Restoring strike - Destroyer - Increases the damage of this ability. Steadfast determination makes the ability also add to determination such as 5%. Bravery - Increases the healing effect by 50%-100% more than it's current value.. Weapon Master - Allows the ability to be used twice within 12s or reduces the cooldown by 50%.

Mighty Leap - Increase range by a significant amount period.. Destroyer - Increases the size of the AOE of this ability. Bravery - gives a short term Heal over time healing something like 5/10/15% HP over 12s, Stead fast Determination - +1/3/5% determination per target hit, Weapon Master - Increase the damage of the ability by a significant amount.

I could easily continue on with this for each of the other abilities but I think this should properly illustrate the point. I might come back and add more later if anyone shows interest in it.. But chances are this is the wrong thread for that.. Just reading it got me thinking about issues of my beloved red headed step child character. (Main is a mage, GWF's are just in sad shape by comparison).

sfxer001

alaerick wrote: »

They really are the red headed step child of pvp

The latest patch made Sentinel GWF's pretty beast. They are nigh-unkillable thanks to Unstoppable's temporary hitpoint buff and Sentinel deflection feats. Getting one down to 10% health is only half the fight.

While GF's have the ability to survive for a while, they can't dish out damage while holding their shield up. GWF's on the other hand just mitigate all your damage while unstoppable and simultaneously dish it right back to you.

alaerick

sfxer001 wrote: »

The latest patch made Sentinel GWF's pretty beast. They are nigh-unkillable thanks to Unstoppable's temporary hitpoint buff and Sentinel deflection feats. Getting one down to 10% health is only half the fight.

While GF's have the ability to survive for a while, they can't dish out damage while holding their shield up. GWF's on the other hand just mitigate all your damage while unstoppable and simultaneously dish it right back to you.

I think we have a misunderstanding here. You are referring to T2 pvp.. I am referring to everything before it.

Class balance should be based on naked mechanics (meaning base stats unmodified by gear) the numbers of stats on gear can always be tweaked later to ensure proper effectiveness. I am addressing core mechanics issues that plague the class from the start till the last piece of T2 is properly enchanted. I've leveled almost exclusively on PVP meaning I do my pvp dailies every day no matter what level I am on all my characters. Once I've got lvl #6 blue set properly enchanted (meaning enchants suitable for that level range) I pvp non stop till I hit the next #0 level.

I have played everything but a rogue simply because I do not like playing stupid OP classes like they are. That being said in every round regardless of level GWF are the bottom of the food chain. My mage simply dodges their attacks and then CC's them dots them and obliterates them. Clerics can dodge/out heal them/ Guards can just block and wait for the opening to unleash. Rogues just seem to eat them alive. I fair decently well because I spend the time to gear my character and know when to use all my CD's to run to the nearest potion spawn.. but let's face it.. GWF are the best at running away.. not winning a fight.

Saying that well at 60 with T2 maxed out GWF are beasts.. simply means that the gear is imbalanced because they are not beasts before then. That is the problem. The core mechanics for the class are flawed. Everything is easily evaded/dodged/cc'd and left to chase and hope you can land something. None of the other classes suffer quite so much from 1-59.