and what has you blocking someone to do with the public humiliation of an innocent?
exactly
Im leaving this post because all the scammers are getting uptight about all this. You cont. on protecting those people who abuse game flaws to STEAL from others. You truly are a hero. Bye!
Bottom line is: Was the OP wrong for using someone's name in a post... Yes... Are there forum moderators to spot things like that... Yes. It's not our position as players to moderate forums and in doing so when people "report" other people for their posts, it really kind of comes off as "Tattling" or "Snitching".
Was The OP careless in his transaction..Sure. But, what the OP does do in the grand scheme is raise our awareness. There tends to be a natural sense of trust in these transactions. And people are generally honest in games, but there are many whose sole intention is to scam or otherwise defraud other players. And in his carelessness, it serves as a reminder to everyone to be more vigilant in dealing with other players when making transactions.
0
nullwolf1Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I see his post, and I also see the OP's Post. There is no name, I know this. What I am trying to say what is stopping me from finding it out. He reported a scam, and I will block the person from ever being able to talk to me in game. What's wrong with that.
(There WAS a name I]the OP was good enough to adhere to forum regulations and remove the name[/I, which is the point of the shaming issues throughout the thread.)
You are well within your rights to PM and get the @handle and block them. That's fine by me.
The public listing of someone's @handle however was not, which is where my original post in this thread came from.
The majority of players (scammers and otherwise) do not peruse the forums, and thus would not be able to publicly refute any accusations.
I encourage you, if scammed, to announce it in Zone chat, just don't spam it too often. Since the scammer is still around to refute if they please.
I will completely agree that the Trade window / operation could use some loving. At the moment, I only trade with friends because of this. Everything else, I use the AH.
Bottom line is: Was the OP wrong for using someone's name in a post... Yes... Are there forum moderators to spot things like that... Yes. It's not our position as players to moderate forums and in doing so when people "report" other people for their posts, it really kind of comes off as "Tattling" or "Snitching".
I don't support people replying with a "I reported you" post. However, politely pointing out the rules isn't too bad. (Some people, like the OP, will self-moderate after being informed of them.) And others may not know of the particular rule either...
Let's not make this about my naming and shaming - I was annoyed, i took it away after.
Point is, the guy who did this was a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> - was i in part to blame? Yeah, most likely - and i've played enough MMO's to know that but it makes the person who did this no less guilty of theft. I believe he attempted with success to retrieve the items for free.
But this trade system doesn't seem to be the best ever, i mean as i say i've played plenty of MMO's and never made this error, even as far back as runescape the trade system seemed sufficient enough to stop this happening.
Something needs to be done to streamline the trade system and people have put some good ideas forward - use them.
and i hope PWE can at least take the item away from the guy who took it, even if they can't give me anything back - i'd rather it deleted than with him.
The OP naming the player who scammed him in the forum is against the rules of the forum. However the OP can always go into zone chat in Protector's enclave and tell everyone he was scammed by that person and it isn't against any rules, and would most likely result in people being informed of the scammer. The OP simply picked the wrong place to tell of his being robbed.
Wrong, the agreement prior to finalising takes precedence, L2Law. The scammer still owes the scam victim 200g. Only a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> would have your point of view. Why didnt the guy just pay the 200g......
The OP agreed to the "trade" when he accepted the trade screen that did not have 200g in it. He needs to learn to read.
To the O.P. sorry to read your bad experience with the game so far,
And to all the others in this thread who like to use the Name/shame card what a bunch of Azzholes, I had commented on this type of behavior and made a suggestion of throwing peoples names up on a wall for all to see, for these very same reasons,
I'm sure you all know that the O.P. got truly ripped off and can feel for what happened, but to come here and say" I reported you, because you violated the R.O.C..
I say, get on the forums and tell your experience and inform others of who it was that did it, let these individuals come on the forums and defend their actions, if they feel they were truly wronged in some way....
Guess what? They won't because they know they did wrong........
I can bet a years salary that if I blatantly ripped you off in real life you have my *** in court over it.
" Name/Blame " B.S.... people in the forums will defend that before they stick together, because they are fed up with people taking advantage of others.
Take care All,
Can't wait for these people to do some community content, that is scripted to take all your items from you on entry, and you never get it back.............
Then we'll see how long it takes them to cry out about that in the forums.......
The OP agreed to the "trade" when he accepted the trade screen that did not have 200g in it. He needs to learn to read.
Nope - the two parties AGREED on the trade details BEFORE the window even came into play. The OP met his end of the AGREEMENT, the other guy did not. The trade window semantics are irrelevant. The AGREEMENT (you know, the part that you read) is relevent.
You probably would attempt to rules lawyer that someone entering his house is his fault if he didnt lock the door. You would lose that legal battle, horribly.
0
alexicacusMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 4Arc User
It's not about how you feel, it's about how pw feels. I doubt the OP would be happy if say, he got banned or something for naming said person.
What if the op is lying about what happened? What if the op is actually the scammer? What is the op is just harassing this person?
Were you there? Do you know if this really happened?
That's why it's against the rules.
This is probably the most intelligent post in this thread.
We have absolutely no evidence that the OP is even telling the truth. If he is, then he has my sympathy. If not, then the one he called out does. Either way, naming/shaming is against the rules, and he deserves a forum vacation for it. This is just the way forums work.
I thought i'd follow this up : they got back to me quite quicky:
<I'm glad to hear you got a response so quickly but CS Responses must be kept Private>
So they cannot do anything to reimburse the item - although in honesty i was expecting that - hopefully though they will see the guy confirming the price prior and see he didn't give it and hit him with a ban - although i'm not holding my breath.
The trade window needs work
I have played: EQ1, EQ2, DAOC, WoW, Runes of Magic, Terra, Rift, Guild Wars, Eden Eternal, Star trek Online, Age of Conan, Runescape plus many more MMO's some of which i probably can't remember and i played some of these for a good amount of time - I am not a newbie, even if i were only paying half attention this shouldn't be so easily possible.
This has never happened before, in honesty i feel a little stupid for it and i've used similar lines to those saying 'bla bla bla its your own fault' but something good needs to come out of it.
0
kimberixMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
In EQ1, people used to offer to pay for ports, then drop group once they'd been sent to where they were going without handing over item. In another scam, they found a low level item that had the same graphic as a rare item and tricked people into paying high amounts for worthless items.
Still happens in any MMORPG where you get a trusting player trading a scrupulous player.
Unfortunately, this instills my idea that the biggest issue with MMORPGs today are the players themselves, which is a shame. (when EQ first came out, you used to be able to trust another player to drag your corpse with full access to your equipment - that was soon changed however when the friendly Samaritan, rather than helping you, simply robbed your corpse).
Nope - the two parties AGREED on the trade details BEFORE the window even came into play. The OP met his end of the AGREEMENT, the other guy did not. The trade window semantics are irrelevant. The AGREEMENT (you know, the part that you read) is relevent.
You probably would attempt to rules lawyer that someone entering his house is his fault if he didnt lock the door. You would lose that legal battle, horribly.
Let's not pretend you know anything of real law Chai. This has been disproven time after time but is still hilarious after all these years. You can continue to insist that you know what rules lawyering is as it pertains to the useful ability to argue on a video game(s) forum(s).
In this case, I'm fairly sure the OP is telling the truth of what happened. However, just because someone claims another player did evilbad things, doesn't mean it is the truth.
Unfortunately, this instills my idea that the biggest issue with MMORPGs today are the players themselves, which is a shame.
This.
And the companies who understand this have coded their games so that the game mechanics themselves do not allow players to screw other players out of video game assets, as well as grief other players.
Scammers are troubling but one expects them. Thieves and criminals, these kids are really just maladjusted youths who don’t really have any responsible parenting and mores the pity for them. With any luck at all they will grow out of this misanthropic phase and into an adulthood of service industry or retail grandeur.
Harder to peg the apologists who try to construct some tautology for them, arguing that the fault is with the target of the scam. Perhaps they might argue that pickpockets and shoplifters are fine because if you are slick enough to grab it then you deserve to have it. I wonder if it serves some element of self interest. They see it as a viable tactic that they might use someday and so they must defend it.
Clearly the fault is with the process though. Having an exploitable system guarantees its exploitation. I would like to see some comment on this from the development staff if only to say they know the problem exists and are considering ways to control it. Being able to use the trade window to get money and goods that people do not mean to give away cannot be working as intended.
Certainly there will those ethically challenged individuals who believe that maintaining the opportunity to run scams should be preserved but I think the development staff will agree that they never intended the trade window to be part of the PVP experience.
Scammers are troubling but one expects them. Thieves and criminals, these kids are really just maladjusted youths who don’t really have any responsible parenting and mores the pity for them. With any luck at all they will grow out of this misanthropic phase and into an adulthood of service industry or retail grandeur.
Harder to peg the apologists who try to construct some tautology for them, arguing that the fault is with the target of the scam. Perhaps they might argue that pickpockets and shoplifters are fine because if you are slick enough to grab it then you deserve to have it. I wonder if it serves some element of self interest. They see it as a viable tactic that they might use someday and so they must defend it.
Clearly the fault is with the process though. Having an exploitable system guarantees its exploitation. I would like to see some comment on this from the development staff if only to say they know the problem exists and are considering ways to control it. Being able to use the trade window to get money and goods that people do not mean to give away cannot be working as intended.
Certainly there will those ethically challenged individuals who believe that maintaining the opportunity to run scams should be preserved but I think the development staff will agree that they never intended the trade window to be part of the PVP experience.
Yeap exactly.
Its also amazing the sheer number of times I have seen people argue that the fault lies with the target of the scam for not knowing better, until they are the ones hit with the same type of scam with slightly different semantics.
It seems like Cryptic has to reinvent the wheel on every little thing. Things like this have been solved in other MMOs years ago, yet they're issues in NW. And to make this even worst, this isn't even Cryptic/PW first MMO. They're learning, like people can't NEED if they're not a class that can use the item, or AFK PvP players, but they shouldn't have to learn these kind of stuff as they go. These are basic issues that have been solved (and easily predicted) years ago.
It's an awesome game with such huge potential, but on so many levels they're doing new developer errors.
It seems like Cryptic has to reinvent the wheel on every little thing. Things like this have been solved in other MMOs years ago, yet they're issues in NW. And to make this even worst, this isn't even Cryptic/PW first MMO. They're learning, like people can't NEED if they're not a class that can use the item, or AFK PvP players, but they shouldn't have to learn these kind of stuff as they go. These are basic issues that have been solved (and easily predicted) years ago.
It's an awesome game with such huge potential, but on so many levels they're doing new developer errors.
I've been playing for a little over a month and I haven't really decided whether the main problem is with the community or the developers. I think it may be a combination of the 2.
I agree with everything you said there, but the fact is that this game has the absolute worst community I've ever seen in a video game. I've played alot of online games over the past 15 years and I'm not exagerating when I say I've never seen a consistently worse collection of people than in this game.
I've never given a significant amount of time to a totally free to play game. I'm perfectly happy to shell out 60 bucks for a game that's going to give me a week or more of enjoyment, and if it's a game that I'm going to play every weekend, I'm happy with 15 dollars a month in subscription fees. I chose this game, not because it's free to play, but because it's a pretty fun little action-RPG.
Unfortunately, because of my work schedule, I've had a hard time finding regular players to play with and the absolutely terrible community has caused me to sour on trying to run dungeons using the group finder. I have a rant in me, but I think I'll soon just abandon this game and consider that free to play is a business model I need to stay away from in general.
I agree with everything you said there, but the fact is that this game has the absolute worst community I've ever seen in a video game. I've played alot of online games over the past 15 years and I'm not exagerating when I say I've never seen a consistently worse collection of people than in this game.
Then you've obviously never played Dungeon Fighter Online.
Maybe it's because the aforementioned game has left me with very low standards, but so far I've had few problems. In fact, on more than one occasion I've been pleasantly surprised by other people's maturity and goodwill. Perhaps the children (and manchildren) to adult ratio is better around these parts, who knows.
Ai, pore si to. I suggest stay away from trade until they fix it. It's such an easy fix too. ****.
0
wildswannMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
Player trading is at your own risk and looking at the number of exploiters/cheaters this game appears to attract why wouldn't they exploit/cheat other players too. Gold is pretty useless in game they should get rid of it and use AD for everything. It would be simpler and make trading impossible - so all transactions have to go through the AH and lower the fees - it would cut zone spam by 50% too... an added bonus.
Sucks you got scammed but DO report him, time, date and circumstances, time and date for log text. Issue that cryptic will have to put up with is "Bullying", don't laugh folks, the issue is in courts regarding online games, consumer rights, etc, so you have plenty of options at your disposal.
Go the polite route, make the report and see if they help you, if not go another route or the last option is to just let it go if it isn't a big deal. Though to some spending cash can be tight and not all folks see this as big, some may.
Sucks this happened and I hope cryptic treats you as a consumer and customer well.
There is no worse feeling in the world than the moment during an argument you realize you are wrong.
Harder to peg the apologists who try to construct some tautology for them, arguing that the fault is with the target of the scam. Perhaps they might argue that pickpockets and shoplifters are fine because if you are slick enough to grab it then you deserve to have it. I wonder if it serves some element of self interest. They see it as a viable tactic that they might use someday and so they must defend it.
It isn't hard to peg at all. Everyone is responsible for their own behaviour.
Ultimately it is primarily the fault of the scammer, but if the scammed individual wasn't exercising enough caution during the exchange they contributed to the end result as well, and are thus partially at fault.
If it is established that the scammed individual wasn't being reasonably careful, sympathy for the person and their loss will wane among those that expect people to be somewhat competent at protecting their own interests.
Unfortunately Cryptic/PWI will not lift a hand to help you out. They don't allow you to public name and shame their customers because it's bad for business.
The name and shame rule isn't there just because it's bad for business, but because if people could then people would be posting people as scammers because of reasons both inside and outside the game including but not limited too.
Not being able to play to the standard they demand.
Playing a spec that isn't the best for that character.
Playing a race/class combo that isn't optimised.
Playing characters of the opposite gender.
Having a lifestyle choice that is different or unusual.
Because they disagree with their opinions.
Now assuming that you fell into one or more of the above catagories and someone decided to report you as a scammer on the forum, if there was no name and shame rules it would simply fall down to your word against their's, impossible to prove and would pretty much destroy any ingame reputation or future you may have had.
This might not be as big an issue in games like WoW or EQ where you can't tell one character on an account from another, but on a game like this where you have an account based handle, it's an entirely different matter.
happend to me too today: i wanted to trade 4,2m AD + 1 gretaer vorpal for 1 perfect vorpal, to get a face to face trade he was fine to buy 38 coalescent wards ( ~ 4,2m AD) so i put my items in trade he put the perfect vorpal, after trade my items were gone and did not get his perfect vorpal, i got ripped for 7,2m AD, pLS GM help me, loved this game so much so far
Unfortunately, forum admins cannot assist in matters of being scammed. Please submit a ticket either ingame using the GM Help > Behavior function, or use the support website (Customer Service > Report Violation)
Also, threads over 30 days are considered "dead" and are generally closed at the discretion of the moderation team.
ROLL TIDE ROLL
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
Comments
Im leaving this post because all the scammers are getting uptight about all this. You cont. on protecting those people who abuse game flaws to STEAL from others. You truly are a hero. Bye!
Was The OP careless in his transaction..Sure. But, what the OP does do in the grand scheme is raise our awareness. There tends to be a natural sense of trust in these transactions. And people are generally honest in games, but there are many whose sole intention is to scam or otherwise defraud other players. And in his carelessness, it serves as a reminder to everyone to be more vigilant in dealing with other players when making transactions.
(There WAS a name I]the OP was good enough to adhere to forum regulations and remove the name[/I, which is the point of the shaming issues throughout the thread.)
You are well within your rights to PM and get the @handle and block them. That's fine by me.
The public listing of someone's @handle however was not, which is where my original post in this thread came from.
The majority of players (scammers and otherwise) do not peruse the forums, and thus would not be able to publicly refute any accusations.
I encourage you, if scammed, to announce it in Zone chat, just don't spam it too often. Since the scammer is still around to refute if they please.
I will completely agree that the Trade window / operation could use some loving. At the moment, I only trade with friends because of this. Everything else, I use the AH.
I don't support people replying with a "I reported you" post. However, politely pointing out the rules isn't too bad. (Some people, like the OP, will self-moderate after being informed of them.) And others may not know of the particular rule either...
D&D Home Page - What Class Are You? - Build A Character - D&D Compendium
Point is, the guy who did this was a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> - was i in part to blame? Yeah, most likely - and i've played enough MMO's to know that but it makes the person who did this no less guilty of theft. I believe he attempted with success to retrieve the items for free.
But this trade system doesn't seem to be the best ever, i mean as i say i've played plenty of MMO's and never made this error, even as far back as runescape the trade system seemed sufficient enough to stop this happening.
Something needs to be done to streamline the trade system and people have put some good ideas forward - use them.
and i hope PWE can at least take the item away from the guy who took it, even if they can't give me anything back - i'd rather it deleted than with him.
The OP agreed to the "trade" when he accepted the trade screen that did not have 200g in it. He needs to learn to read.
To the O.P. sorry to read your bad experience with the game so far,
And to all the others in this thread who like to use the Name/shame card what a bunch of Azzholes, I had commented on this type of behavior and made a suggestion of throwing peoples names up on a wall for all to see, for these very same reasons,
I'm sure you all know that the O.P. got truly ripped off and can feel for what happened, but to come here and say" I reported you, because you violated the R.O.C..
I say, get on the forums and tell your experience and inform others of who it was that did it, let these individuals come on the forums and defend their actions, if they feel they were truly wronged in some way....
Guess what? They won't because they know they did wrong........
I can bet a years salary that if I blatantly ripped you off in real life you have my *** in court over it.
" Name/Blame " B.S.... people in the forums will defend that before they stick together, because they are fed up with people taking advantage of others.
Take care All,
Can't wait for these people to do some community content, that is scripted to take all your items from you on entry, and you never get it back.............
Then we'll see how long it takes them to cry out about that in the forums.......
" May The Wind be Always At Your Back "
Nope - the two parties AGREED on the trade details BEFORE the window even came into play. The OP met his end of the AGREEMENT, the other guy did not. The trade window semantics are irrelevant. The AGREEMENT (you know, the part that you read) is relevent.
You probably would attempt to rules lawyer that someone entering his house is his fault if he didnt lock the door. You would lose that legal battle, horribly.
This is probably the most intelligent post in this thread.
We have absolutely no evidence that the OP is even telling the truth. If he is, then he has my sympathy. If not, then the one he called out does. Either way, naming/shaming is against the rules, and he deserves a forum vacation for it. This is just the way forums work.
<I'm glad to hear you got a response so quickly but CS Responses must be kept Private>
So they cannot do anything to reimburse the item - although in honesty i was expecting that - hopefully though they will see the guy confirming the price prior and see he didn't give it and hit him with a ban - although i'm not holding my breath.
The trade window needs work
I have played: EQ1, EQ2, DAOC, WoW, Runes of Magic, Terra, Rift, Guild Wars, Eden Eternal, Star trek Online, Age of Conan, Runescape plus many more MMO's some of which i probably can't remember and i played some of these for a good amount of time - I am not a newbie, even if i were only paying half attention this shouldn't be so easily possible.
This has never happened before, in honesty i feel a little stupid for it and i've used similar lines to those saying 'bla bla bla its your own fault' but something good needs to come out of it.
Still happens in any MMORPG where you get a trusting player trading a scrupulous player.
Unfortunately, this instills my idea that the biggest issue with MMORPGs today are the players themselves, which is a shame. (when EQ first came out, you used to be able to trust another player to drag your corpse with full access to your equipment - that was soon changed however when the friendly Samaritan, rather than helping you, simply robbed your corpse).
Let's not pretend you know anything of real law Chai. This has been disproven time after time but is still hilarious after all these years. You can continue to insist that you know what rules lawyering is as it pertains to the useful ability to argue on a video game(s) forum(s).
In this case, I'm fairly sure the OP is telling the truth of what happened. However, just because someone claims another player did evilbad things, doesn't mean it is the truth.
This.
And the companies who understand this have coded their games so that the game mechanics themselves do not allow players to screw other players out of video game assets, as well as grief other players.
Harder to peg the apologists who try to construct some tautology for them, arguing that the fault is with the target of the scam. Perhaps they might argue that pickpockets and shoplifters are fine because if you are slick enough to grab it then you deserve to have it. I wonder if it serves some element of self interest. They see it as a viable tactic that they might use someday and so they must defend it.
Clearly the fault is with the process though. Having an exploitable system guarantees its exploitation. I would like to see some comment on this from the development staff if only to say they know the problem exists and are considering ways to control it. Being able to use the trade window to get money and goods that people do not mean to give away cannot be working as intended.
Certainly there will those ethically challenged individuals who believe that maintaining the opportunity to run scams should be preserved but I think the development staff will agree that they never intended the trade window to be part of the PVP experience.
Yeap exactly.
Its also amazing the sheer number of times I have seen people argue that the fault lies with the target of the scam for not knowing better, until they are the ones hit with the same type of scam with slightly different semantics.
It's an awesome game with such huge potential, but on so many levels they're doing new developer errors.
I've been playing for a little over a month and I haven't really decided whether the main problem is with the community or the developers. I think it may be a combination of the 2.
I agree with everything you said there, but the fact is that this game has the absolute worst community I've ever seen in a video game. I've played alot of online games over the past 15 years and I'm not exagerating when I say I've never seen a consistently worse collection of people than in this game.
I've never given a significant amount of time to a totally free to play game. I'm perfectly happy to shell out 60 bucks for a game that's going to give me a week or more of enjoyment, and if it's a game that I'm going to play every weekend, I'm happy with 15 dollars a month in subscription fees. I chose this game, not because it's free to play, but because it's a pretty fun little action-RPG.
Unfortunately, because of my work schedule, I've had a hard time finding regular players to play with and the absolutely terrible community has caused me to sour on trying to run dungeons using the group finder. I have a rant in me, but I think I'll soon just abandon this game and consider that free to play is a business model I need to stay away from in general.
Then you've obviously never played Dungeon Fighter Online.
Maybe it's because the aforementioned game has left me with very low standards, but so far I've had few problems. In fact, on more than one occasion I've been pleasantly surprised by other people's maturity and goodwill. Perhaps the children (and manchildren) to adult ratio is better around these parts, who knows.
Go the polite route, make the report and see if they help you, if not go another route or the last option is to just let it go if it isn't a big deal. Though to some spending cash can be tight and not all folks see this as big, some may.
Sucks this happened and I hope cryptic treats you as a consumer and customer well.
Ultimately it is primarily the fault of the scammer, but if the scammed individual wasn't exercising enough caution during the exchange they contributed to the end result as well, and are thus partially at fault.
If it is established that the scammed individual wasn't being reasonably careful, sympathy for the person and their loss will wane among those that expect people to be somewhat competent at protecting their own interests.
The name and shame rule isn't there just because it's bad for business, but because if people could then people would be posting people as scammers because of reasons both inside and outside the game including but not limited too.
Now assuming that you fell into one or more of the above catagories and someone decided to report you as a scammer on the forum, if there was no name and shame rules it would simply fall down to your word against their's, impossible to prove and would pretty much destroy any ingame reputation or future you may have had.
This might not be as big an issue in games like WoW or EQ where you can't tell one character on an account from another, but on a game like this where you have an account based handle, it's an entirely different matter.
Also, threads over 30 days are considered "dead" and are generally closed at the discretion of the moderation team.
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com