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DC, simply not fun after patch
therealiriax
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
I usually don't post, but after watching and waiting, it's time.
After running T2 dungeons with guildmates, I've come to realize how poorly thought out these "balances" to the DC class are. We run with good players and all use Teamspeak. We haven't had too much trouble doing just about anything in the game. Some things take more time, but none were impossible.
After the patch, things take even longer and are simply not fun. You can still do everything, yes, but this is still a game and it's about fun, not about a second job.
That said, here are my suggestion to bring at least a little fun back to the DC:
1. Restore AS to 100% up-time.
If that means lowering the CD or upping the duration, whichever is fine. You over nerfed it.
2. Buff other heals.
We are a "leader" not a healer, but now we have to slot all heals. That's pretty sad. Why even give us other skills?
3. Bring some consistency to our skills. If it says it procs on a heal... then have it proc on A HEAL.
This last point shows how poorly designed this game is. The DC has how many abilities that say it HEALS? Quite a few... but how many proc feats that say "when you heal"? Very few. Just to put it plainly, it's stupid. If I have to guess/test to see if something works with something else, you've done a VERY POOR job of design.
I'll stop there because I could go on and on about how silly/stupid a lot of this is, but I'll leave it at the major issues.
Bring back the fun to the DC class!
P.S. I won't even mention PvP here since we all know how that is.
After running T2 dungeons with guildmates, I've come to realize how poorly thought out these "balances" to the DC class are. We run with good players and all use Teamspeak. We haven't had too much trouble doing just about anything in the game. Some things take more time, but none were impossible.
After the patch, things take even longer and are simply not fun. You can still do everything, yes, but this is still a game and it's about fun, not about a second job.
That said, here are my suggestion to bring at least a little fun back to the DC:
1. Restore AS to 100% up-time.
If that means lowering the CD or upping the duration, whichever is fine. You over nerfed it.
2. Buff other heals.
We are a "leader" not a healer, but now we have to slot all heals. That's pretty sad. Why even give us other skills?
3. Bring some consistency to our skills. If it says it procs on a heal... then have it proc on A HEAL.
This last point shows how poorly designed this game is. The DC has how many abilities that say it HEALS? Quite a few... but how many proc feats that say "when you heal"? Very few. Just to put it plainly, it's stupid. If I have to guess/test to see if something works with something else, you've done a VERY POOR job of design.
I'll stop there because I could go on and on about how silly/stupid a lot of this is, but I'll leave it at the major issues.
Bring back the fun to the DC class!
P.S. I won't even mention PvP here since we all know how that is.
Post edited by therealiriax on
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Comments
Well said, and a very good point.
You missed the point of the OPs post. He said quite clearly, things are possible still. He wasn't complaining about challenge, but rather about poor design decisions. Your suggestion is actually a PART of that poor design decision (SB, AS, FF! No choices for you!)
Allow Divine Mode to have 3 seperate slots (So you have 3 in Non-D mode, and 3 in D mode) that can have different (Or the same) powers. Each slot would share a cooldown with its Divine counterpart though, but it would fit our Leader role, and allow us to heal.
Let's face it, there are certain skills we never use in Divine Mode, and ones that we never use outside of Divine Mode.
Well I'm having MORE fun now.. Before it was drop AS on CD, that's it nothing else you did mattered, you could do nothing else and it wouldn't make much difference (aside from having to kite 100 mobs all the time).
Btw I've been running every t2 dungeon (except CN) - And At first I was rarely using Divine FF, but now I am not using it in Divine AT ALL. I could EASILY go without it, could go without SunBurst too.. Though I use them both (non-Divine) because I like the quick Divinity generation.
I don't even need to spam AS on CD in most cases.. And for the extra tight situations Hollowed or Divine Armor pick up the slack, when used at appropriate times (both have different uses!).
I like actually needing to make decisions as to when I use my skills instead of - AS is off CD, cast AS - no more worries, oh AS almost off CD, prepare to cast AS etc...
Every Cleric on my friendlist enjoys the new changes and is having no problem adapting.
I could see being forced into those skills with terrible group members, and I can't give an opinion on CN as it's the only one I don't run on a regular basis.
- I won't go into PvP either, everyone agrees Clerics are terrible in PvP.
Now the game goes something like: ok CW got aggro => CW stands in red area => CW dies. TR got aggro => TR doesn't back off => TR dies. At least before the patch, you could impact on these situations by creating extra aggro and pulling mobs away from damage dealers. In other words before this patch, DCs were far more in control what happens in the field, now you don't have any control over anything. Even a monkey can now play DC, that's how easy the class became. It is by far the easiest class in the game now, and that is what makes me sad, there is no skill required anymore to play DC in PvE.
The monkey isn't doing very well if the CW and TR are dying like you explain - so you are contradicting yourself right there. FYI I've only ONCE in my entire time playing ran with double Clerics, and that was my first time in CN(his first also).
It's the GF's job to manage aggro, so if the CW and TR are taking too much then it's his fault (or yours for not bringing one).
Divine Armor is a BEAUTIFUL - O **** someone just got spiked with 4 seconds left till AS is back up savior skill!
Btw - How does CW and TR being bad players who don't try to avoid red have ANYTHING to do with how the DC plays...
You belittle those who ran double DC before patch, yet in the same breath wish for EZ mode so the TR and CW's don't have to play well? -lesigh
"You belittle those who ran double DC before patch, yet in the same breath wish for EZ mode so the TR and CW's don't have to play well? "
How is it easy mode if I am the one who has all the aggro vs I am standing still and only casting skills? And yes you can reduce the damage from others when you're the target of the damage instead of others. Sure I am not saying that having all the aggro is the best thing, but when DC has 0 aggro, it just makes playing DC boring.
"It's the GF's job to manage aggro, so if the CW and TR are taking too much then it's his fault (or yours for not bringing one)."
Also you did bring up exactly the point I was making. Now DC has no impact at all for the teams success. Before the patch your own effort could have been enough to make the team success but now... that option is just gone. At least before the patch you could do something other than heals, like prevent some damage by smart kiting, while casting astral shield, astral seal and brand of the sun on targets, but now it's just stand still and use the skills.
No before the patch the only person needed for a party was a DC with his astral shield. NOW EVERYONE has a role and has to pay attention, or the group fails. Before everyone could fail but if the DC was decent, you win.
I meant easy mode as in you can carry your whole party, the entire party could suck but because of your Astral Shield its ez mode for every single one of them. When I played my DPS specced Guardian before patch, I never had to block anything, all I had to do was zone out and spam my skills while standing in the blue. It was utterly stupid.
Kiting mobs was never hard in the first place.
I ALSO play GF, so I do find it quite nice my other toon now has a valid role in parties. The GF who I now have specced tank, and actually have to play with a bit of strategy!
Oh and you say the DC has no impact on the party LOL.. YOU LOST FIVE SECONDS OF AS OMGGGGGGGG - its the end of the world DC does nothing now!!! WOW
Go ahead and join a dungeon party on your DC - let everyone else go and try to complete it while you just stand there, tell me how much effect it had!
Oh and the fact that the way you describe your play as just standing there using skills on cooldown, is exactly why your failing to adapt and your TR and CW's keep dying.
This would be awesome.
Even if I could have 4 encounters it would rock. Since the change if I run with a group, I have to slot 3 healing encounters..where as before I used more DPS stuff.
I'm not a super uber only doing end game content DC, I've only been playing a few weeks and still run with a ton of people newer than me even tho I have been 60 a couple days as I am trying to finish all the quests I haven't done. If DC is boring for new people before they even get to 60 to see the cool gears...I suspect they will stop playing...and really that is not good for any game.
Seems what you are saying is that in most situations your team is good enough that they do not need you.
I've come to the obvious conclusion we are pretty much pointless in PvP now.
Just run around try to heal trying to do something useful and just wait for someone to come around and kill me, which isn't very difficult at all.
A TR with there super crit stuff a few hits, a Wizard's stun lock and I'm dead in a few seconds.
Now just some very weak healer for PVE only when you have a good balanced team that knows what they are doing (the odds are maybe 1 out 10 PUG teams).
Or join one of the many exploiting/glitch teams.
Mind you I don't have that bad of a gear score at ~9.6 and yes I do know how to play. Walk a mile in Cleric shoes post-patch or else you have no opinion anyhow.
Ahh well it was a fun few weeks for me, I really liked the game for a while.
They've got five days to fix it or me or it's 8GB free space on my HD room for something else like "Elder scrolls online" when ever it comes out or something else.
If that's fine for you good luck.
I just apologise up front for "being a cleric" and "being on the team", then do my best to be annoying to the other team before dying horribly multiple times, collecting my 200 glory, rinse, repeat.
Haha I like the attitude man !
TR has cloak we have bad heals, CW has perma stun we have bad heals. So lets call that balanced and give cleric equal dmg then.
And there is zero skill involved in placing AS every 15s and dropping occasional other heal/burst in between + spamming dailies. And besides that what we supposed to do.. at wills to regain DP. Wow can write everything cleric does in 1 line.
Either buff healing so it can compete with damage (in pvp you should be able to heal as much as 1 TR does dmg to you as fast, they still have stuns to kill you and it's team pvp not solo) or up cleric damage a lot and make it just another dps class with gimped heal as special thingy like other classes have stuns, stealth etc.
LOL touche (i cannot use accents in this forum lol)
Anyway, bragging about his team being superb and needing almost zero healing from him means he's useless to that team and a TR in his place would speed up boss encounters by a huge ammount.
Once you understand that for good parties clerics are deadweight and utterly useless and for bad parties clerics are not good enough you'll see the light.
Cryptic balance FTW!
I want this class in NW.
Naw what I'm saying is that in most situations my team is good enough that they don't need AS 24/7.
I did run some T2's last night with undergeared and inexperience players that I had never ran with before - (and my first run with no GF as well). They went fine - My job was tougher yes, but that's why I like this change.
Well like I said in my last post.. I ran with an undergeared inexperienced team too.. Still didn't Divine my FF at all. Still didn't use AS on CD in non boss fights.
When I play my GF btw, the Clerics I run with are also doing just fine.
Oh, I don't bother trying to heal others, I use some AOE stuff, as they seem to stay alive much better even if I am on the other side of the map:)
Doesn't make sense you ran with an undergeared, inexperienced team and yet you did not need to use AS or Divine FF, so you managed to keep this team up with just Astral Seal and sunburst?
Interesting.... I wish I grouped with undergeared, inexperienced teams like yours
I DID use Astral Shield, I did NOT use it every time it was off CD. I did use sunburst on CD (non divine), I DID spam astral seal on every mob and its mom. I did make smart use of my rapidly filling AP to use HG or DA at appropriate times. I did NOT use divine FF rather used it to spike fill my divinity.
More clear now?
Also my build is different then the FOTM build everyone was running with pre-patch and that could be a big part of things.
Its a little hard to use FF now unless the target is a boss and stationary - unlike before I use ff on the mob following me
Also i think CWs got their AP regen nerfed, i dont see them spam Blackhole much, or i've just pug'ed with a lot of really bad CWs
That's because we get all the agro now and it's almost impossible to keep black hole up.