Stop trying to glitch fights...

cesmode8

It is so annoying to run with groups that think they are so pro they can glitch things. And then when something goes wrong, everyone wipes because at that point noone has a clue as to what to do...run or fight? Die? And you're probably in an in-optimal area to start fighting..probably right next to another cluster of trash.

I was just in a DD FH dungeon. They kept breezing by everything, stand here stand there blah blah. When things werent going their way the tank, in his broken english(I understand its not his first language), was telling everyone what to do but noone could understand him in his brief sentences as hes trying to kite mobs around, with his broken english.

Long story short: Its more trouble than its worth. Sure, the run MIGHT be 10 minutes faster. But if you screw up, its 10 or 20 minutes longer. Not worth it. Just play the content. Or are you too chicken ****?

cesmode8

This is to all the speedrunners that think youre all so pro.

mackeh

Here's the thing .. while I see your point and agree with the gist of it, you have to consider that the game shouldn't allow for glitchy <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> to happen at all really. People use it because a reasonable amount of the time it's faster, especially with groups who've done this kinda thing before. For me at least, it isn't a question of it being wrong .. but more of a question of it being there in the first place.

cesmode8

Oh I completely agree with you, sure. Guild wars 2 is/was the same way. Its so annoying though. Even if Ive seen the glithces/exploits/shortcuts before...and I pug...I am not sure if the group is going to do so. Nor do I think to ask. So when they veer off some other path without me seeing, Im like, wtf?

mackeh

Aye .. we've all been there.

Then again, this is the game they felt comfortable announcing a release date for .. so I'm not entirely sure logic, reason, or consistancy come into it much. TESO can't come soon enough tbh ...

cesmode8

not sold on teso.

walk2k

trash has too much HP and doesn't drop anything anyone in a T2 dungeon would want (greens... really? gee thx)

so yeah.

magilzeal

walk2k wrote: »

trash has too much HP and doesn't drop anything anyone in a T2 dungeon would want (greens... really? gee thx)

so yeah.

Trash has too much HP? Dear lord... this game has some of the most palatable "trash" I've ever seen. I wonder if any of you guys did the flame packs in Molten Core or the Pre-C'Thun trash, back in the day. And they drop usable enchants way more often than any of those ever dropped anything of value...

neyph69

magilzeal wrote: »

Trash has too much HP? Dear lord... this game has some of the most palatable "trash" I've ever seen. I wonder if any of you guys did the flame packs in Molten Core or the Pre-C'Thun trash, back in the day. And they drop usable enchants way more often than any of those ever dropped anything of value...

How about trash mobs in Plane of Growth(EQ1). Some of that stuff had fuktons of HPs, as in it took 30-40 people sometimes 5-6mins of fighting to down.

PS: MMO Players these days are too spoiled with easy content.

suirakk

mackeh wrote: »

TESO can't come soon enough tbh ...

LOL, TESO ... game is gonna be broken for a year after release. Bethesda cant even get a single player game right.

jihancritias

magilzeal wrote: »

Trash has too much HP? Dear lord... this game has some of the most palatable "trash" I've ever seen. I wonder if any of you guys did the flame packs in Molten Core or the Pre-C'Thun trash, back in the day. And they drop usable enchants way more often than any of those ever dropped anything of value...

If I remember correctly, MC didn't have hundreds of mobs, or more, to get to the boss.

"MORE DOTS!"

magilzeal

jihancritias wrote: »

If I remember correctly, MC didn't have hundreds of mobs, or more, to get to the boss.

Right, because the mobs were HARDER. They had MORE HIT POINTS. Well, not in pure numerical terms most likely, but they took longer and a lot more effort to kill. Do you have any idea how long it took to run a full Molten Core clear start to finish? Pre-Expansion? Whenever I hear people complaining about Castle Never taking 2-3 hours I just shake my head and remember spending two to three times that much clearing the old raids in WoW. And let's not even talk about later dungeons like Ahn Quiraj (the dungeon so big they had to let you use a mount in it, lest you spend 30 minutes running from one end of the zone to the other) and Naxxramas (I don't remember the exact count, but I remember it had about 15 boss fights).

People whining about having to spend 30 minutes in an instance clearing trash and defending exploiting past it is just pathetic, frankly. Clearing out the trash between the Twin Emperors and C'Thun in Ahn Qiraj usually took longer than that! And was often less rewarding.

neyph69

magilzeal wrote: »

Right, because the mobs were HARDER. They had MORE HIT POINTS. Well, not in pure numerical terms most likely, but they took longer and a lot more effort to kill. Do you have any idea how long it took to run a full Molten Core clear start to finish? Pre-Expansion? Whenever I hear people complaining about Castle Never taking 2-3 hours I just shake my head and remember spending two to three times that much clearing the old raids in WoW. And let's not even talk about later dungeons like Ahn Quiraj (the dungeon so big they had to let you use a mount in it, lest you spend 30 minutes running from one end of the zone to the other) and Naxxramas (I don't remember the exact count, but I remember it had about 15 boss fights).

People whining about having to spend 30 minutes in an instance clearing trash and defending exploiting past it is just pathetic, frankly. Clearing out the trash between the Twin Emperors and C'Thun in Ahn Qiraj usually took longer than that! And was often less rewarding.

Again i will reference even crazier end game content. How about taking 2-4 days to full clear the Planes of Hate and Fear in OG EQ. Sorry but for every gripe people have about this game i bet i can reference EQ to something that was 5 times as bad as far as difficult content.

healhamsta

Protip: If you die after glitching, you're still going to die before glitching.

magsondare

suirakk wrote: »

LOL, TESO ... game is gonna be broken for a year after release. Bethesda cant even get a single player game right.

then it's a good think that it's ZeniMax that's developing TESO, isn't it?

tarmalen

magilzeal wrote: »

Right, because the mobs were HARDER. They had MORE HIT POINTS. Well, not in pure numerical terms most likely, but they took longer and a lot more effort to kill. Do you have any idea how long it took to run a full Molten Core clear start to finish? Pre-Expansion? Whenever I hear people complaining about Castle Never taking 2-3 hours I just shake my head and remember spending two to three times that much clearing the old raids in WoW. And let's not even talk about later dungeons like Ahn Quiraj (the dungeon so big they had to let you use a mount in it, lest you spend 30 minutes running from one end of the zone to the other) and Naxxramas (I don't remember the exact count, but I remember it had about 15 boss fights).

People whining about having to spend 30 minutes in an instance clearing trash and defending exploiting past it is just pathetic, frankly. Clearing out the trash between the Twin Emperors and C'Thun in Ahn Qiraj usually took longer than that! And was often less rewarding.

First starting out we would not clear either one before the reset which was between 5-7 DAYS.

Eventually we caught up in gear and could knock them out in one long evening.

I wouldn't mind some epic type raids where we had DAYS to work on and clear before reset.

walk2k

neyph69 wrote: »

How about trash mobs in Plane of Growth(EQ1). Some of that stuff had fuktons of HPs, as in it took 30-40 people sometimes 5-6mins of fighting to down.

PS: MMO Players these days are too spoiled with easy content.

I did both, and that's why everyone avoided Plane of Growth. In fact I'm pretty sure Tunare was the last boss/god we killed in Velious, even after the Sleeper... Just because it was so f'ing annoying.

I don't think NWO is going for the same kind of hardcore raiding experience that EQ or WoW do. NWO is designed more for the semi-hardcore player, who wants to login and play for an hour or so, and finish a dungeon in under an hour.. There's a reason why DD are 60 mins long after all... I don't think the dungeons are too "hard" in general but the trash, including boss adds, doesn't go down quick enough. I'm talking a group with 2 CW spamming every AoE in the book has trouble killing adds before they build up to ridiculous levels - and no I'm not the best geared CW (around 10k I think) but this was Icespire too, not CN.

I mean next you'll tell me you want 3 hour corpse recoveries in Plane of Fear... please no.

walk2k

You can't camp in the middle of a dungeon here and start fresh the next day, either. When we used to do Temple Veeshan we'd clear to the dragon in the middle of that pit, forget the name... and camp there and pick up the next day. Sure it took 4-6 hours total but you didn't have to do it in 1 go. Like I said NWO isn't going for that same level of experience, it's a lot more "casual" and honestly I like it that way. I cherish my EQ (and WoW) time back in the day but these days, sorry don't have time for 6 hour dungeons. or even 3 hour.

serialmom

suirakk wrote: »

LOL, TESO ... game is gonna be broken for a year after release. Bethesda cant even get a single player game right.

Zenimax is making it. You shouldn't experience anything more than the typical MMORPG release post 04, incomplete/lacking endgame, imbalanced classes/gameplay, the usual exploits that will be patched within a few weeks, cash shop items even if only a few in even a subscription game, mobs easier to kill at max level than the easy mobs at the start of a character, auction house exploits, and if you're lucky negative bidding, faulty item tracking/placement in inventory, easy and multiple duping methods, farming methods which grant 100x more gain in less than a fraction of the time a tool intends to put into 'legit" (i'.e. not playing to win/their own version of the game) farming, and then the enjoyable divide created from that once the bugs are finally removed for about the next 2 to 6 months until most of the players with the early advantages lose interest in the game and leave allowing the tools to remain and have their massochistic fun with the boring programs. that's all typical modern mmorpg bugs, the bethesda bugs are more desirable personally. I highly doubt there are as many ****tards developing that game though, so there will not likely be anything truly profitable in true currency as there were at the beginning of the launch of this game.

llfritzll

neyph69 wrote: »

How about trash mobs in Plane of Growth(EQ1). Some of that stuff had fuktons of HPs, as in it took 30-40 people sometimes 5-6mins of fighting to down.

PS: MMO Players these days are too spoiled with easy content.

its just not mmo players, its the current generation of gamers.

play any new single player game on normal mode. its like playing what used to be easy mode. you have to practically just stand there and try to die on purpose in order to lose.

chuckwolf

Whatever happened to the days when doing dungeons was about taking your time and exploring, not running through avoiding mobs and trying to do them as quick as possible. If this were a PnP tabletop D&D quest and you told the DM you were going to skip half the dungeon by jumping off a cliff, he'd laugh at you.

datemper

Just to be fair about the original Everquest,the so called trash mobs did have a chance to drop some very valuable gear.

As a Shadow Knight Plane of Hate was my second home for a good long while and for good reason.

With some of the latest online games it's just RNG on top of RNG.

cesmode8

How did this turn into a TESTO and molten core discussion?

Focus!

magilzeal

tarmalen wrote: »

First starting out we would not clear either one before the reset which was between 5-7 DAYS.

Eventually we caught up in gear and could knock them out in one long evening.

I wouldn't mind some epic type raids where we had DAYS to work on and clear before reset.

A fair point, but the fact remains that it still took a good 40 minutes or so to clear out the Pre-C'Thun trash. And flame packs in Molten Core required specific class assignments.

Imaging the wailing that would occur in NW if you actually had to stop clearing for about a minute, designate who was going to handle which mobs, and then execute a strategy on a trash pack that had an insignificant chance of dropping anything valuable (just a road block to the next boss). Because... well, in the early days of WoW, that's exactly what you had to do in Molten Core for post-Garr trash.

vrtesseract

You got to love how people blame the company for THEM willingly glitching things. Just because something CAN be exploited does not mean you SHOULD do it. Heck didn't you people learn anything from caterday, and when they put invisable walls up so people cant push mobs into death pits people actually complained.

so I agree with the OP if you put as much time ad effort into playing the game as you do cheating it you might have more fun.

avidlurker

It's the fundamental difference between Have-ers and Do-ers.
A lot of people play to have. Have purple show on the character sheet. Have larger integers displaying. If something they can get shows larger integers nothing else is "worth getting".

Then there is the cash shop. If you can sell stuff to get cash shop items, there will be tight competition to sell desirable loot.

Ultimately it's unwise short sighted behavior though.
How long does it take to develop a dungeon? I honestly don't know, but all the 3D modelling, texturing, encounter design, itemization, spread sheet crunching has to take some time, plus packaging for distribution in a way that doesn't break the client.
with hard core running of dungeons players already will clear stuff much faster than any developer can hope to create them, using glitches just exasperates that fact and there will never be "enough content" to do.

calidorn

walk2k wrote: »

I did both, and that's why everyone avoided Plane of Growth. In fact I'm pretty sure Tunare was the last boss/god we killed in Velious, even after the Sleeper... Just because it was so f'ing annoying.

I don't think NWO is going for the same kind of hardcore raiding experience that EQ or WoW do. NWO is designed more for the semi-hardcore player, who wants to login and play for an hour or so, and finish a dungeon in under an hour.. There's a reason why DD are 60 mins long after all... I don't think the dungeons are too "hard" in general but the trash, including boss adds, doesn't go down quick enough. I'm talking a group with 2 CW spamming every AoE in the book has trouble killing adds before they build up to ridiculous levels - and no I'm not the best geared CW (around 10k I think) but this was Icespire too, not CN.

I mean next you'll tell me you want 3 hour corpse recoveries in Plane of Fear... please no.

Lets see some of the people here now try the original PoFear. Entire guilds would chain wipe trying to do corpse runs just zoning in. A 3hr CR was a quick one. People would be trying to convince guilds who still had players with gear to have a try....the next day! Fully equipped corpses would rot with all their gear because people couldn't be online when someone actually established a foothold at zone in. Some people would crash from the graphics overload from all the corpses at zone in. Can't see many people here putting up with that. Fun times.

avidlurker

Eh, I totally missed EQ but that sounds interesting.

Yeah, thinking of the UNcontrol wizards I have been grouped with at times, yeah, those guys would not have a good time.

rustyblades

I've seen most PuG CW go arcane for DPS vs going cw or mix. Unfortunately some DPS cw also keep push queued so melee spend more time chasing trash and less time mitigating it. Best way to artificially extend runs is to keep that push firing.

I would do longer runs in NW if the PuG is good. Since the agro was fixed my GF can now collect mobs and actually clear mobs from clothies. I spent my boss fights last night collecting everything so my party could focus on DPS. While I played rabbit.

toughguylol

trash offers no incentive to kill it

literally the trash mobs are only there to slow game progression down

why would you bother killing it if it wastes time and offers nothing in return?

zzjoy

Question: would doing things like pushing trash off the map or into pits be considered "avoiding fights" too? Because you're not technically fighting either and for every endgame dungeon where you can push off trash/adds you can still technically fight them to reduce their health to zero.

And are AI exploits like kiting mobs/adds in boss fights also "glitching fights"?

I seriously want to know where this line is drawn.