Half the cheese gone, another half to go.

hauwlyn

So, the astral shield nerf made DC less of a one trick pony class and all the players relying too much on it realized they aren't so good(except maybe at kiting everything), and therefore they started to whine about the nerf.

That's part of the really cheesy 2 DC 2 CW 1 TR composition broken.

Problem is, it now got replaced by 2 CW 1 DC 1 TR 1 GF.

Why? Because while GWFs have the best sustained AoE Damage(and some useful off tanking, especially compared to a CW), it isn't needed when you can just throw adds off cliffs in the majority of fights, including Dracolich, with a little trick that really isn't that hard.

Now if I was thinking about this in the selfish and easy mode way, I really couldn't care less: I'm a main CW. I do want my class not to be the one trick pony DC were, but most importantly I want GWFs in there, and not as unoptimal composition.

GWFs are strong, mind you, though the most uncanny class and hard to master, even before the patch they were strong, they just didn't have results as good overall because lots of people are mistaken about its role(s) or as just really far from reaching its true potential. I do believe the whine got listened to a bit too much and now they're downright broken: rather than make them easier to play, you simply made them better to compensate, transforming the masters of the class into real gods of the battlefield.

But all that doesn't mean they're optimal in PvE where their strong point is handling adds, as long as CWs can just insta kill adds off cliffs rather than have to wear them down.

I'm not asking for cliffs to be removed entirely, not even from all boss fights. I love the last boss of Spellplague, for example.

But when the hardest boss of the hardest instance has that kind of cheese, when 80% of what you kill on the way can be thrown off cliffs, why bother take a GWF?

lerdocix

Well, I've just finished a run as GWF and boy, it was awesome.
1st on damage, could peel adds of the cleric, even was able to hold aggro on bosses and the adds at once.
Felt good.
GWF to me is fully viable now and hell of a fun. Sure, most mobs can be thrown off cliffs, but there is still a fair share left for GWF.

And if throwing off mobs will be considered too cheezy for devs they will just put more invisible walls like in Castle Never.

Oh and since you are CW, you ARE one trick pony just like DCs were, black hole->push, rinse and repeat

hauwlyn

Indeed, us CWs are one trick ponies. And honestly, Even if you had only one CW, a really good one could just deny you so many adds with cliffs it's not even funny. Then again, "optimal" groups go 2 CWs precisely because a lone one rarely manages, and it's obviously not from our tools being lackluster, because they simply aren't.

Reducing the number of holes in the map for the purpose of instakilling adds, and removing that possibility in dracolich would almost enforce sustained aoe damage, making a CW+GWF combo a lot better than 2 CWs in dracolich. Because why bother damaging them when you can just throw them out twice as frequently?

I'm not saying GWF can't perform in CN, I'm merely saying they still aren't part of the optimal comp, and that they probably should be.