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PVP Balances New Patch. Very Unfortunate. 6/14/2013. Novel Mode.
grotblasta
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 16 Arc User
EDIT: (I wanted to be clear that this is my opinion based on my experience and 1 week before NeverWinter goes LIVE; I do understand that the game is subject to tremendous change before and after going LIVE; However, the patch notes released are a small portion (1/3?) of what is to come. This portion is the current-(complete?) PVP balance portion of the following patches as I sincerely doubt they would release "Half" of a Class-balancing patch, as it would only further imbalance the game (correct me if I'm wrong). I am only concerned because I feel Perfect World may find this balance as "acceptable", even though they are currently on the same path as the many MMO's in the past 5+ years that have fallen under the "TOO little TOO late" content-patch bus". RIFT, AION, AAC, and TERA, is a prime example of the 10 others I can label off the top of my head.)
Novel mode engage - For the record my words are based off the experience of playing 3 level 60 classes (GWF, CW, & CLERIC). - PVP was beyond destroyed/broken before patch and still is just as bad after patch. One shot wonders are back, Encounters and dailies have the same amount of power for most classes STILL. It's literally a no brainer on how to "partially-half-way" balance the PVP, if you can't get your skills right then double everyone's HP for now, OR SOMETHING... it goes to show Perfect Worlds interesting resolve when it comes to balance, simply BECAUSE it's such an easy fix. I refuse to believe they just don't know any better when you log in for PVP and it feels like COD pacing, "Quickly die, then come back". Just spend 30 minutes writing on a sheet of paper like anyone else can do and implement/TEST balance changes first. I have lost (some) faith in Perfect World due to this common sense knowledge in balancing. Hear me out.. I'm not raging.
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I said I'd give it a chance in this overhaul patch WITH TOUGH LOVE, but it's done little to nothing and like I said, I would instantly uninstall, but that's unnecessary and childish. I'm going to talk with my friends about it first, then make a decision because this is insane. I do want others opinions first. Don't think I'm just giving up after "a little bit of aggravation" either! I've spent 100$ on this game due to all of the hours it's given me (well deserved) thank you PW! However, Level 60 has proven to me there is no point in leveling any other classes, or continuing at this very moment. It's clear since this huge patch was just released, we obviously can't expect any major patches to fix all of these issues for another few weeks. Side Note: Some of us can't just play an MMO for PVE, both is just as crucial.
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Great Weapons Fighter - Can NOW heal to full HP from 10-15% HP by popping their Action point ability, don't ask me how, but 3 GWF's have done this to me in a row today. All they have to do is press Q-E-R and kill anything in a matter of 3 stun lock moves (3 seconds) with a near 50% to crit ratio (that's just at 9k GS). This is impossible to avoid against anyone who knows how to use a GWF.. not hard, brainless maneuvers. Note - It was fun getting on my GWF and choo choo training through 5 people like they are garbage.
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CW's - Can still do 75%+ HP in one daily move (ICE KNIFE). They can now do about half HP with 2 Ray's of Enfeeblement's alone (I certainly can with 8900 GS) my build is based on Mitigation. On my CW I have no problem killing every class, BUT THE guardian and warrior before my "choke hold" is over with. How is that balanced? It's not, we need a nerf as all others.
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Guardians - Still do Half hp in 1 to 2 encounters, excluding dailies. ITS A TANK, REALLY?. THEY ARE MEANT TO TAKE DAMAGE/BUY TIME IN PVP FOR FLAG CAPTURES, NOT DEAL ROGUE-BURST DPS!!!
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Trickster Rogues - Lashing Blade is equivalent in damage to all of the other classes Daily's. Rogues Daily equals to their Lashing Blade. It goes without saying in 2 moves it's over if they crit. Rogues have a near 50+% crit ratio with very little ease and a rather lower Gear Score. Regardless, it shouldn't be this way at all. I can careless about how much it takes to be at that Crit rating, no excuse. How many MMO's do we need as a reference before others understand how to balance PVP to the majority of others liking?. This isn't Battlefield 3, or COD where you shoot someone's toes twice and re-spawn.
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Clerics - 1 shot Hammer of Justice. Guys... it's a Cleric. I'm not even going to explain this one. There are various changes to be made to this class coinciding with the changes to be made with other classes.
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I understand this is OPEN BETA, but that is no excuse at this time as complaints alike have been made since Closed BETA. A large PVP Balance patch has been implemented and it didn't do what most of us wanted simply put. However I do enjoy the following changes: Cosmetic's; server stability improvements which is awesome; and some PVE "content", along with Icon changes etc. I was all excited yesterday because PVP was going rather well unusually, then I get on today and every PVP game I zone into is littered by 1 shot 2 shot, 3 move wonders. I'm personally done bothering in the meantime until the 20th. I may level my other ALT with my friends to 60 and then call it if nothing is fixed in the next few weeks.
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As I have been playing MMO's for the past 10 years of my life I'm starting to lose interests... developers can't seem to balance classes that are common in most MMO's (at least similar mechanics). I can literally spend 20-30 minutes at my desk writing on paper much better balance changes and even better with my friends involved. Clearly something is wrong when realizing this truth. Many Developers also don't understand you can't just GIVE every class EASY epics like this game for example. You have to have a BUILD UP-Reward system. That means GREENS', BLUES', THEN END GAME - EPIC/Legendary. There has to be a gap in gathering these rare items (go to dungeons, get the best blues, or greens possible THEN do harder dungeons) other-wise why do you HAVE them in the game?.
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ALL what matters to people currently is hitting Level 60 so they can equip FULL Purple-Epic-Gear thanks to NOTHING being B.O.P (Bind on Pickup) instead, it's all B.O.E (Bind on Equip). You can buy everything off of the Auction House. PVP vendor gear is 1 day's worth of farming for your character at the moment you hit 60 if you haven't been PVPing already. I have all 3 level 60's almost full epic the moment they hit 60 (9kish gear rating instantly) how boring is that? It makes ZERO sense. For that reason I can't justify paying anymore for this game, nor playing it for the time being. Again, MMO's are not meant to be played like an FPS.. "COD, or BF3" (You get hit twice, you respawn), or "First see first kill".
BOTS... mmm yes Bots are awesome. Keep in mind I'm leaving out several other issues. Also, NO, I do not think people should be allowed to kick in PVP (it's always abused the moment someone gets mad at another), I think PW should incorporate whatever mechanic MOST MMO's implement to remove botting and spam like Guild Wars 2 for example. These are near flawless systems that have prevented from ruining game-play at the VERY LEAST. You cannot give too much power to players or it will be abused, you must remove/improve mechanics that will be used as a majority and instead make them all equal according to their class.
I'm tired of typing
Thanks for listening guys. Over and out.
Novel mode engage - For the record my words are based off the experience of playing 3 level 60 classes (GWF, CW, & CLERIC). - PVP was beyond destroyed/broken before patch and still is just as bad after patch. One shot wonders are back, Encounters and dailies have the same amount of power for most classes STILL. It's literally a no brainer on how to "partially-half-way" balance the PVP, if you can't get your skills right then double everyone's HP for now, OR SOMETHING... it goes to show Perfect Worlds interesting resolve when it comes to balance, simply BECAUSE it's such an easy fix. I refuse to believe they just don't know any better when you log in for PVP and it feels like COD pacing, "Quickly die, then come back". Just spend 30 minutes writing on a sheet of paper like anyone else can do and implement/TEST balance changes first. I have lost (some) faith in Perfect World due to this common sense knowledge in balancing. Hear me out.. I'm not raging.
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I said I'd give it a chance in this overhaul patch WITH TOUGH LOVE, but it's done little to nothing and like I said, I would instantly uninstall, but that's unnecessary and childish. I'm going to talk with my friends about it first, then make a decision because this is insane. I do want others opinions first. Don't think I'm just giving up after "a little bit of aggravation" either! I've spent 100$ on this game due to all of the hours it's given me (well deserved) thank you PW! However, Level 60 has proven to me there is no point in leveling any other classes, or continuing at this very moment. It's clear since this huge patch was just released, we obviously can't expect any major patches to fix all of these issues for another few weeks. Side Note: Some of us can't just play an MMO for PVE, both is just as crucial.
-
Great Weapons Fighter - Can NOW heal to full HP from 10-15% HP by popping their Action point ability, don't ask me how, but 3 GWF's have done this to me in a row today. All they have to do is press Q-E-R and kill anything in a matter of 3 stun lock moves (3 seconds) with a near 50% to crit ratio (that's just at 9k GS). This is impossible to avoid against anyone who knows how to use a GWF.. not hard, brainless maneuvers. Note - It was fun getting on my GWF and choo choo training through 5 people like they are garbage.
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CW's - Can still do 75%+ HP in one daily move (ICE KNIFE). They can now do about half HP with 2 Ray's of Enfeeblement's alone (I certainly can with 8900 GS) my build is based on Mitigation. On my CW I have no problem killing every class, BUT THE guardian and warrior before my "choke hold" is over with. How is that balanced? It's not, we need a nerf as all others.
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Guardians - Still do Half hp in 1 to 2 encounters, excluding dailies. ITS A TANK, REALLY?. THEY ARE MEANT TO TAKE DAMAGE/BUY TIME IN PVP FOR FLAG CAPTURES, NOT DEAL ROGUE-BURST DPS!!!
-
Trickster Rogues - Lashing Blade is equivalent in damage to all of the other classes Daily's. Rogues Daily equals to their Lashing Blade. It goes without saying in 2 moves it's over if they crit. Rogues have a near 50+% crit ratio with very little ease and a rather lower Gear Score. Regardless, it shouldn't be this way at all. I can careless about how much it takes to be at that Crit rating, no excuse. How many MMO's do we need as a reference before others understand how to balance PVP to the majority of others liking?. This isn't Battlefield 3, or COD where you shoot someone's toes twice and re-spawn.
-
Clerics - 1 shot Hammer of Justice. Guys... it's a Cleric. I'm not even going to explain this one. There are various changes to be made to this class coinciding with the changes to be made with other classes.
-
I understand this is OPEN BETA, but that is no excuse at this time as complaints alike have been made since Closed BETA. A large PVP Balance patch has been implemented and it didn't do what most of us wanted simply put. However I do enjoy the following changes: Cosmetic's; server stability improvements which is awesome; and some PVE "content", along with Icon changes etc. I was all excited yesterday because PVP was going rather well unusually, then I get on today and every PVP game I zone into is littered by 1 shot 2 shot, 3 move wonders. I'm personally done bothering in the meantime until the 20th. I may level my other ALT with my friends to 60 and then call it if nothing is fixed in the next few weeks.
-
As I have been playing MMO's for the past 10 years of my life I'm starting to lose interests... developers can't seem to balance classes that are common in most MMO's (at least similar mechanics). I can literally spend 20-30 minutes at my desk writing on paper much better balance changes and even better with my friends involved. Clearly something is wrong when realizing this truth. Many Developers also don't understand you can't just GIVE every class EASY epics like this game for example. You have to have a BUILD UP-Reward system. That means GREENS', BLUES', THEN END GAME - EPIC/Legendary. There has to be a gap in gathering these rare items (go to dungeons, get the best blues, or greens possible THEN do harder dungeons) other-wise why do you HAVE them in the game?.
-
ALL what matters to people currently is hitting Level 60 so they can equip FULL Purple-Epic-Gear thanks to NOTHING being B.O.P (Bind on Pickup) instead, it's all B.O.E (Bind on Equip). You can buy everything off of the Auction House. PVP vendor gear is 1 day's worth of farming for your character at the moment you hit 60 if you haven't been PVPing already. I have all 3 level 60's almost full epic the moment they hit 60 (9kish gear rating instantly) how boring is that? It makes ZERO sense. For that reason I can't justify paying anymore for this game, nor playing it for the time being. Again, MMO's are not meant to be played like an FPS.. "COD, or BF3" (You get hit twice, you respawn), or "First see first kill".
BOTS... mmm yes Bots are awesome. Keep in mind I'm leaving out several other issues. Also, NO, I do not think people should be allowed to kick in PVP (it's always abused the moment someone gets mad at another), I think PW should incorporate whatever mechanic MOST MMO's implement to remove botting and spam like Guild Wars 2 for example. These are near flawless systems that have prevented from ruining game-play at the VERY LEAST. You cannot give too much power to players or it will be abused, you must remove/improve mechanics that will be used as a majority and instead make them all equal according to their class.
I'm tired of typing
Thanks for listening guys. Over and out. Post edited by grotblasta on
0
Comments
U got a screenshot of deft strike doing 25k+ damage?
My CW has 23,000 HP, GWF has 25,000, Cleric has 24,000. Rogue walks up to CW - Deft Strike 15,000, Daily 19,000.
never said they did 25k+ damage in one move, if you read anything I said, I said it was a 2 part move. REGARDLESS, you can do all of these things in a matter of 2.5 seconds. Does a 1 or 2 SHOT maneuver-KILL make a difference in if it should be fixed or not? No. Every single class needs to be fixed still, no worries your precious rogue isn't being singled out.
Before patch Rogues were hitting for 23,000+ in a single Deft Strike.. they did "improve it" by reducing some of the classes encounter damage, but it did not make a difference.
Dailies don't do 25k+ anymore, they do around 10-18,000 (ON AVERAGE 9kish GS). So yes rogues Deft Strike is equal to most dailies.
to be honest i play TR and if there is a TR using deft strike they are a pretty average player and should be ok to turn around and blast even if they do 80% dmg in one move heh
there one hit hammer is the only thing they have going for them in PvP and like you said they are clerics and shouldn't even have such a daily as that, the game would be much better off to get rid of the last patch as its a completely failure and has ruined PvP, at least before PvP was somewhat fixable but now it simply isn't... clerics are totally ruined and when I queue for PvP matches it takes a lot longer to find anyone to PvP against (before it was virtually instantaneous to join)
The PvP balance was much better prior to this patch. With this patch came a ton of lag as well taking even more joy out of the once smooth combat.
One small change at a time and wait should be the rule. When you make a bunch of changes the total impact on the game can be so massive that you just create new goto classes.
Luckily this game is F2P so it doesn't cost us to wait out a buff/nerf cycle.
Hahaha. Joking right? My cleric can't kill someone that AFK let alone one shot anything.
All credibility gone.
I play a GF and will say its not that I can 2-3 shot people its also that I can keep them "stunned" via knock down and knock back the entire time... I DO agree that a GF SHOULD do insane damage close up but honestly the HUGE crits from encounters are pretty insane. I REALLY believe that base crit severity should be nerfed about 50% ish and that greater vorpal should also get the nerf bat. You have rogues doing dailies of 30k+ even as a GF I can get 1-2 shot... You have GFs critting for 20k+ (this only happens with knights challenge cheese and a "lucky crit" since GFs crit is MUCH lower than TRs.
If you nerf crit severity AND base crit itsll fix this issue, but youll have to compensate by boost everyones flat dps on "at wills" to make up for that... Maybe except for rogues, they already have amazing at will (reduce the range or something!).
Your cleric is obviously controlled by a terrible player.
All credibility gone.
With my shoddily equipped Cleric, Hammer of Justice does 3 ticks of about 5k-6k noncrit.
It's easy to reach 20k damage.
Combined with the encounters which provide a ridiculous amount of AP, it's easy to spam Hammer of Justice.
There were a lot of things to do with the GWF... but in PVE. I dunno what they did, but my first 10 PVP since the patch were epic. Was just amazed how a couple of GWF may dominate any fight 1vs3 just while spamming the same basic attack and got perma selfhealed/dmg immunized. Basically, you can't do anything as GWF got no weakness.
Still nothing changed. For rogues it's basically exactly the same, as for tanks which are stupidly overpowered if they wear a good stuff.
Considering the actual PVP balance it sounds like a troll update.
This guy is correct, I've killed someone in two of the three hits as a dps spec.
Omg TEACH me, master? Pls-pls? Im 11k GS CW, 8,5k offensive stats, 2.5k defensive, 5 G tene, 1 normal tene, G plague and CN mainh/offh, using thaumaturge build - i can't kill anyone "before my "choke hold" is over with". And i never been killed like that and never saw anyone been killed like that.
Well, i can kill someone (pretty badly geared) for CoI+RoE+EF (+Icy Rays if necessary), or at least put him to soullforge proc, but it takes like 5-6 seconds minimum. So ppl actually have tons of time to react. So, after reading this part i have only question: bro, do u even play this game?:eek:
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Its yet another example of devs not comprehending range damage advantage. If a GWF or GF get up to you, you're too **** close. If you see a rogue stealth MOVE gtfo cuz they're obviously coming for you or the cleric and if they pop lurker to stay stealth keep going cuz they just traded a daily for your blinks. CW have 80' range, use it.
Greater Tene above all balance issues needs the nerf. When you have builds based around an enchant something is seriously wrong.
Well enchants are like 5x more expensive than gear so shouldnt it be based around them? I mean you get your base stats around gear and then you further them (even in PVE) a TON by enchants. A Greater tene is about on par with a rank 8 enchant FYI.
Also I do agree it needs a fix, but I dont think a nerf. G Tene are not as great in PVE but are amazing PVP.
The BEST thing you can do to correct them is to fix the glitch where they can proc more than once in the CD and also turn the damage into a DoT. This wont reduce DPS but reduces burst ability.
Also Tene builds are not what is wrong in PVP its the fact that almsot any player can basically 2-3 shot almost any other player via crits. What they NEED to do is reduce base crit severity and also reduce vorpal crit severity to reduce overall crit damage.
This will drastically reduce the cheese...
Note: not saying they should do this at all but for perspective WoW introduced resilience which reduced crit and "drit severity" which lead to a HUGE improvement in survivability in PVP... I think they should just do it flat across the board however buff up normal "at wills" by say 10-15% to compensate for damage lost...
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No MMO on this planet should allow for 2-3 shot from anything (especially if it's only a certain classes). Again this isn't an FPS. That kills the "skillful" gameplay and allows for fast paced boring games "FIRST SEE, first kill". MMO's with PVP have to allow room for strategy and thinking, or there is no depth involved.
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IF A TANK can 2-3 shot a player, then any DPS class MUST be able to 1-2-3 shot any player with that said. That is most certainly NOT what a balanced MMO would look like.
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Last point, the tanks have knock downs, ranged KNOCK-downs at that; in some cases they are unavoidable. If they allow 2-3 shot from tanks, that means they can finish any player off before they are out of prone which was the problem post patch. However it is still a problem when I take over half HP before I can even get out of prone from a TANK that is suppose to outlast any class in HP/Defense.
However I have spent 100's of hours so far in this game, and my statements are based from experience! Mistakes can be made.
Not joking it all, its not funny to me as it has ruined the gameplay for me and many others.
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I could say the same thing about you "Put marijuana plant as picture" credibility gone. However I don't mean it.. I just honestly think you're a hipster that feels the need to show off that "you smoke", when most of us do.. but we don't feel the need to tell everyone.
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I was the same way as you, I didn't believe a lot of things i was being told about this game, then I finally ran across a few people who knew how to play the game and use their character to it's fullest potential. You have to realize that the majority of peopel in the forums are complaining about the same issues.
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What you're saying is basically the same thing as someone saying UFO's don't exist when 24 Countries have disclosed their UFO material as factual and documented, and proven. Thanks
1. Argentina
2. Australia
3. Brazil
4. Canada
5. Chile
6. China
7. Denmark
8. Finland
9. France
10. Germany
11. India
12. Ireland
13. Japan
14. Mexico
15. New Zealand (Additional Report)
16. Peru
17. Russia
18. Spain
19. Sweden
20. Ukraine (not in English)
21. United Nations
22. United Kingdom
23. Uruguay
24. Vatican City
Thank you for proving my point sir. It's okay they know not what they do. Some people haven't experienced what we have just yet in-game.
I can already tell you my spec is different from yours. Mine is based on full mitigation and various other talents. I don't need to teach you anything, just research/test builds, nor am I exaggerating when I'm doing it myself. Why would I get my class more nerfed for no reason? Rhetorical. I wouldn't.
I'm not saying it's up to anyone specifically other than someone at the development studios. That is definitely the True-True. They are more than welcome to hire me on to help. I'm extremely enthusiastic and certainly not negative in most ways. If I came off that way, I would like to apologize to anyone.. as I am only passionate about video games and care about the communities more than most would imagine.
Ray of Enfeeblement in my TAB-Ability - 2 Ray's with my build after applying my full mitigation de-buffs (all can be done during choke-hold) they are most definitely at half. I'm sure fighting someone with a "superior" Gear Rating to me isn't quite half.. but again, that certainly doesn't make it okay that I can do that much damage in 2-3 seconds flat with anyone, any class, or based on their gear etc. (excluding people in full greens or something silly that is obvious). This is based on the majority of people being at least full-armor epic, and accessories being unknown in the moment of battle.