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  • lolsorhandlolsorhand Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 981 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    zbkolde wrote: »
    Here's my reactions to the ratings i get:

    5-star: Big grin, that's why we do this.
    4-star: Hmm, what could i make a little better?
    3-star: Oh no, i disappointed this person somehow. :(
    2-star: Hurts the most.
    1-star: Pfft, whatever. Your issue, not mine.

    My first quest only has one 2-star, which it just recently got, and it hurts the most. A diehard troll will not give you an extra star, so a 2-star feels like someone just really really hated it. Of course they didn't leave a comment telling me why they hated it. Oh well, we can't please everyone in the entire game, and i'm not trying to. :)

    To add: May as well say this is how i rate others' foundries:

    5-star: You did a lot of work here, and it was a great experience, i smiled the whole time! (most of my ratings)
    4-star: You did a lot of work, but it needs to be tested and polished. Be back later to upgrade to 5-star.
    3-star: Needs more work, or something in it offended me slightly.
    2-star: Never given.
    1-star: Never given.

    If i absolutely hate a quest, or can't survive it, i don't rate it. Instead i'll send feedback through in-game mail. This has only happened a few times, as i'm one of those weird people that actually reads the descriptions, so i don't even play the ones that i know i won't enjoy in the first place.

    I never give a rating without giving the author a written explanation. - Also, if asked I will probobly replay a map if the author asks me to. With improvements follows a higher rating. And we can't forget that we all started somewhere.
    I like turtles.

    Brethren of the Five, Campaign. - Story focused
    The Dwarven Tale - Hack 'N Slash
  • thunderknuckles1thunderknuckles1 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 42
    edited June 2013
    lolsorhand wrote: »
    lol this. I state my first quest is recommended for two players. (I know for a fact it is very much soloable.. But it's challenging.) And yet people deem it too hard when they go about it solo. - Oh well, give me back my foundry cryptic... Then I can just fix this anyway by adding a simple slider.

    Very similar here! My DM's notes very CLEARLY state that it's not intended as a solo adventure, buuuuuttttt still got a 1 star because a guy tried to solo it and had a hard time. I even said up front that it was fast and furious. Doesn't matter. lol Now, that being said, I have been fortunate enough, after some tweaking due to polite comments left for me about it, it's been getting 4 and 5 stars regularly.
  • sourcreamkingsourcreamking Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 268 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    I got a 2-star review because "why was man at end of story?" and "disappointed that there were no reward for my class"...
    Quite annoying, but what can you do?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    The entire campaign can be found here: NWS-DQS27OINC

    Individual quests:
    1. Heeding the Call - NW-DMJCDZ5XJ
    2. Bored of the Rings - NW-DFWE3XR6W
    3. Draconian Ways - NW-DUNZEJG2J
    4. When All is Said and Done... - Look at the picture ;)
  • zahinderzahinder Member Posts: 897 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I've given out a few 2s. I generally don't give out 1s because chances are it's because the mission is so messed up I can't finish it -- at which point I can't actually give the mission the '1' I'd like to.

    I'm also nervous about attaching reviews to low star ratings because some people WILL 'punish' others for bad ratings. It doesn't stop me... but ... nervous.

    (I'd be actually reluctant if search wasn't so massively broken that ratings and listings don't matter much)
    Campaign: The Fenwick Cycle NWS-DKR9GB7KH

    Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?

    Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?

    Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
  • zahinderzahinder Member Posts: 897 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Oh, and as for my missions, anyone giving me a 2 or a 1 clearly is demented in some way. I don't think any of my existing missions deserve a 2 or a 1, and it's not ego. 3-5 works, depending on what parts of the missions people focus on -- the three missions definitely have flaws that, whenever FOUNDRY COMES BACK UP, I hope to address.
    I can also imagine people missing clues or getting lost/confused giving a 2 or a 1, depending on just how frustrated they get.

    What really ticks me off is the handful of 1s and 2s with no review. It's irritating to wonder... WHYYY.

    I am totally fine with the '1 star -- sucks when drunk' that someone left. That's just funny.
    Campaign: The Fenwick Cycle NWS-DKR9GB7KH

    Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?

    Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?

    Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
  • shorlongshorlong Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 286 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    I rate quests based on certain criteria:

    5 stars - Entertaining, good mix of combat, story and adventuring. Great layout, lots of detail and obviously took time.
    4 stars - One thing is a little off. Usually, it's the level of detail (a lot of prefab maps, stock settings and auto-fill only)
    3 stars - Something is off. More than one thing. Nothing is terrible about it, but, it isn't very great either.
    2 stars - Rarely given. This is if it is obvious that there wasn't attention put anywhere. Spelling and grammatical errors, empty rooms, bad story or nonsensical plot.
    1 star - Only ever given one star, and it was to a quest that deserved it. He made a big post about me doing it, and I told him why, and he still decided to come and and do my quest JUST to one star it. I give one star if the plot is bare to non-existant, the design is terrible, bad mechanics, and it seems like someone built it in 5-10 minutes.

    That being said, I know others rate me differently. I've only had one star rating, from the person I gave a one star to. He said that the problems were it was boring, didn't make sense, dialogue and characters were terrible and there were Kobolds in the sewer.

    But, I had one review that was "The only good thing about this quest was the end fight." Five stars. Must have been one hell of an epic boss fight.
    My quest was deleted in July of 2013. There were no issues, it had not violated any rules. Was deemed a bug. That quest is still missing.

    RIP - Dirty Politics May 21st, 2013 - July 30th, 2013
  • chili1179chili1179 Member Posts: 1,511 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I'll gladly accept all stars. I'm collecting them and I plan to make my own universe with them.
    There is a rumor floating around that I am working on a new foundry quest. It was started by me.
  • drakesigardrakesigar Member Posts: 231 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    It's easier to win an Olympic gold medal than it is to get a five star rating from me. It's easier to beat Battletoads while wearing boxing gloves. I am of the opinion that the rating is reserved for simply the best, better than all the rest. Better than anyo- wait, that's a song. Bah, you know what I mean.

    And no, my quest certainly doesn't deserve five stars. Yet!
    Check out Adventuring College! A 20 minute male-centric comedic solo adventure.
    Quest ID: NW-DPCZNUVQ7
  • sourcreamkingsourcreamking Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 268 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    Do you have battletoads?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    The entire campaign can be found here: NWS-DQS27OINC

    Individual quests:
    1. Heeding the Call - NW-DMJCDZ5XJ
    2. Bored of the Rings - NW-DFWE3XR6W
    3. Draconian Ways - NW-DUNZEJG2J
    4. When All is Said and Done... - Look at the picture ;)
  • zbkoldezbkolde Member Posts: 689 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    drakesigar wrote: »
    It's easier to win an Olympic gold medal than it is to get a five star rating from me. It's easier to beat Battletoads while wearing boxing gloves. I am of the opinion that the rating is reserved for simply the best, better than all the rest. Better than anyo- wait, that's a song. Bah, you know what I mean.

    And no, my quest certainly doesn't deserve five stars. Yet!

    I can totally understand where you're coming from with this mind-frame, and there's nothing wrong with it. If i were hand-picked to be on a panel of 10 judges, judging a contest of well-prepared contestants in a closed setting, i'd do exactly the same. However, here in the game, there are thousands of other judges, and we aren't hand-picked. The contestants aren't always well-prepared, most are beginners. As such, everyone gets a lot of bad reviews, mostly from people who don't care. I give 5-stars to try to off-set the bad reviews from under-qualified judges. I can understand if other people don't see it that way, but it's just how i do it. :)
  • sourcreamkingsourcreamking Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 268 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    Ok, getting 5 stars should be something to strive for... But to get 1 or 2 stars simply because the player doesn't know the lore and therefor doesn't get the plot is not so cool. And as stated by several people before, one star for loot quality is also not cool.

    If people give out stars, they should take the tame to tell the author why they gave the amount they did, so we as authors can fix it. Unless they gave it one star because they are ignorant That can't be easily fixed...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    The entire campaign can be found here: NWS-DQS27OINC

    Individual quests:
    1. Heeding the Call - NW-DMJCDZ5XJ
    2. Bored of the Rings - NW-DFWE3XR6W
    3. Draconian Ways - NW-DUNZEJG2J
    4. When All is Said and Done... - Look at the picture ;)
  • zahinderzahinder Member Posts: 897 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Ratings are always a debate.

    Personally, I think each star should represent a 20%ile swath of quality -- 5 stars means you are in the upper 80+%, not 99.99%.
    Campaign: The Fenwick Cycle NWS-DKR9GB7KH

    Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?

    Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?

    Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
  • thunderknuckles1thunderknuckles1 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 42
    edited June 2013
    zbkolde wrote: »
    I can totally understand where you're coming from with this mind-frame, and there's nothing wrong with it. If i were hand-picked to be on a panel of 10 judges, judging a contest of well-prepared contestants in a closed setting, i'd do exactly the same. However, here in the game, there are thousands of other judges, and we aren't hand-picked. The contestants aren't always well-prepared, most are beginners. As such, everyone gets a lot of bad reviews, mostly from people who don't care. I give 5-stars to try to off-set the bad reviews from under-qualified judges. I can understand if other people don't see it that way, but it's just how i do it. :)

    Seriously, quite a number of people take this way too seriously. So seriously that it embarrasses me for them a little. There is no grand monetary prize, offer of a full time job with PW or any other genuinely tantalizing reward for creating a Foundry dungeon. And it sho ain't the Olympics! Some of these people really need to relax.
  • vuelheringvuelhering Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    zahinder wrote: »
    Ratings are always a debate.

    Personally, I think each star should represent a 20%ile swath of quality -- 5 stars means you are in the upper 80+%, not 99.99%.

    1 HAMSTER-20%
    2 21-40
    3 41-60
    4 61-80
    5 81-amazing

    If you think of it that way, it makes sense to give 5 stars to several, despite there being obvious quality differences. It's like a score of a B- or better, in the old A-F scale.

    This, to me, is a failing of the rating system. It overweights 1 and 5 stars, because 1 and 5 stars are going to be the most common ratings for no good reason, and it's non-linear. Who the hell ever thinks "well, this is about a 25% of perfection"? And who thinks "It'd get a 5 if that last 5% were finished, so it gets a 4." It's non-linear... someone with a 95% enjoyment factor will still score a 4. Someone with an average enjoyment factor will often score a 5 or a 1. I only trust the values when over 1000 people have rated it... 10,000 would be better.

    A better rating system would be something like:
    play: recommend/neutral or not applicable/don't recommend
    story: recommend/neutral/don't recommend
    overall: recommend/neutral/don't recommend

    In addition, it should silently track people who routinely give the lowest ratings (as in, far below average), and silently discard their votes retroactively. That means, they don't get a message that they've disrecommended so many foundries why the hell are they playing this game? Instead, it just lets them enter info and discards any rating, while continuing to track that it was played and what they actually rated it without calculating that in. At some point when they come within a standard deviation, it will begin tracking again and publishing their plays. If they drop below again, it'll remove any new ones they had made since then.
    Knights who say Ni!
    Foundry name: Vuelherring (with an extra 'R', matey)

    "Bring out yer Dead" NW-DAI945C2G #humor #story #solo
  • drakesigardrakesigar Member Posts: 231 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    Seriously, quite a number of people take this way too seriously. So seriously that it embarrasses me for them a little. There is no grand monetary prize, offer of a full time job with PW or any other genuinely tantalizing reward for creating a Foundry dungeon. And it sho ain't the Olympics! Some of these people really need to relax.

    I guess assuming those reviewers might have good reason isn't as fun as painting them as some kind of grumpy wannabe Roger Ebert.
    Check out Adventuring College! A 20 minute male-centric comedic solo adventure.
    Quest ID: NW-DPCZNUVQ7
  • katah1969katah1969 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 89
    edited June 2013
    Surprised this thread is still going. I think it goes to show that even though most of us do tend to take ratings with a grain of salt, that salt in a bad rating wound still hurts.

    It is kind of sad and at the same time good, but the lower reviews I am getting (thankfully not a lot, but some) is actually helping me out a little. When I first published and started trading reviews my first reaction was almost impulsive to go and change whatever it was the person reviewing did or did not like. My first 20 or so reviews was maddening because it was "change this and change that" and also a little of "oh my how and I going to fix this?" and I started to put into perspective that it would be impossible to make my quest "perfect" for everyone and I started to ease up a little on making mad changes.

    I do think that for the most part, hindsight being 20 / 20 and all, that all the changes I did make added to the quest in a positive manner, but over the weekend I had my "ah ha!" moment and while I hate that the foundry has been down, I'm a little thankful it was.

    I got my first, for a lack of anything else to call him/her, rude player who left me a very nice 2 star review because he/she did not like the way the quest text appeared on the screen after meeting an objective. Was not the kindest review I have seen, but I do use a different style and it does make for some additional screen clutter, but I like to tell a story and it really isn't that big of a deal.

    Well, my first response was to go in and completely overhaul the text for the objectives, but since the foundry was down I couldn't. After thinking about it a little while I realized what I mentioned above and personally I think some extra DM like story while questing is pretty cool and looking at my other reviews (almost 300 of them now) some liked it as well and others didn't... but it is my style.

    Long winded post I know, but I've now adopted a philosophy of I'm going to make the quests for me and if when I'm done I think others will like them then I'll publish. If it works great... if it doesn't... that is great, too!

    Little side question someone might know about. My quest was listed under the "best" category for about 4 days, but over the weekend something must have changed as it is no longer there. My star ratings have stayed pretty much the same at about 4.5 so not sure if there is a timer or what the criteria is. Anyone know?
  • thunderknuckles1thunderknuckles1 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 42
    edited June 2013
    drakesigar wrote: »
    I guess assuming those reviewers might have good reason isn't as fun as painting them as some kind of grumpy wannabe Roger Ebert.

    Drake, when you say that it's easier to win an Olympic gold medal than to get a 5 star rating from you, it rather makes me think you're being ridiculously hard on your fellow Foundry authors. I'm not insulting you at all. I'm just saying that...this is no big deal. There's no huge real life reward for creating a stellar Foundry dungeon. It's there for fun. That's it and that's all. :)
  • drakesigardrakesigar Member Posts: 231 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    Drake, when you say that it's easier to win an Olympic gold medal than to get a 5 star rating from you, it rather makes me think you're being ridiculously hard on your fellow Foundry authors. I'm not insulting you at all. I'm just saying that...this is no big deal. There's no huge real life reward for creating a stellar Foundry dungeon. It's there for fun. That's it and that's all. :)

    I take my fun very seriously.

    That was a joke, as was the Olympic gold comment. But if you really want to know why we shouldn't just 5 star everything, I'll give you a reason - Cryptic's system. It's a simple yet crude one, a quest's ranking is determined by it's star rating (and to a lesser extent the number of stars). The rankings offer exposure. I'm sure you've noticed how hard it is for some of the best quests to get attention right now, if we make the star system worthless... well, try printing billions of dollars and giving everybody in the world a million to abolish poverty. Sadly it just doesn't work that way.
    Check out Adventuring College! A 20 minute male-centric comedic solo adventure.
    Quest ID: NW-DPCZNUVQ7
  • zbkoldezbkolde Member Posts: 689 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    drakesigar wrote: »
    ... But if you really want to know why we shouldn't just 5 star everything, I'll give you a reason - Cryptic's system. It's a simple yet crude one, a quest's ranking is determined by it's star rating (and to a lesser extent the number of stars). The rankings offer exposure. I'm sure you've noticed how hard it is for some of the best quests to get attention right now, if we make the star system worthless... well, that's like printing billions of dollars and giving everybody in the world a million to abolish poverty. Sadly it just doesn't work that way.

    If every single player on the entire game used your logic, it may work perfectly. The problem is, they don't. Nor does everyone use my logic, which is a good thing, because nearly every quest would have 5-star rankings eventually. That's kinda how it all works, it averages out. The downside to your system is that you are withholding high ratings from good quests while there are angry children giving it 1-star ratings just for fun. When you like a quest, and you give it 4-stars, that does not give it a 4-star ranking on the list. Just the same, when i give a quest a 5-star, that does not give it a 5-star ranking. My giddy 5-star rating and your satisfactory 3-star rating average out. By the time the quest gets a ton of ratings, the ratings will show an average. So what if 12 angry children 1-starred it out of boredom, and so what if 12 happy-go-lucky easily-excited nerds gave it 5-stars because it made them giggle, it's the 5,000 other ratings that matter in the end. I don't expect everyone to use my system, and you should accept that not everyone will use your system, it just all works out in the end because we all rate it how we want to.
  • drakesigardrakesigar Member Posts: 231 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    zbkolde wrote: »
    I don't expect everyone to use my system, and you should accept that not everyone will use your system, it just all works out in the end because we all rate it how we want to.

    Indeedy. I wouldn't expect the current interface to be in service much longer anyway, it seems like we all want it replaced with something else.
    Check out Adventuring College! A 20 minute male-centric comedic solo adventure.
    Quest ID: NW-DPCZNUVQ7
  • zahinderzahinder Member Posts: 897 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Do people think 5 stars should be less than 1/5 of the missions?

    If so, why?
    Campaign: The Fenwick Cycle NWS-DKR9GB7KH

    Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?

    Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?

    Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
  • wuhsinwuhsin Banned Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I got two starred last night because my latest quest was too easy. What's sad is that it has an option to choose between Easy and Hard difficulty. The guy didn't realize this though because he was too busy skipping all the dialogue. :(
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • sourcreamkingsourcreamking Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 268 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    Haha!! I just got a nice review on "When All is Said and Done..." - One star, and the text: "It sucked" - no explanation, no nothing. Not easy to make it unsuck if they don't have the courtesy to tell me what to improve. Jeebus...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    The entire campaign can be found here: NWS-DQS27OINC

    Individual quests:
    1. Heeding the Call - NW-DMJCDZ5XJ
    2. Bored of the Rings - NW-DFWE3XR6W
    3. Draconian Ways - NW-DUNZEJG2J
    4. When All is Said and Done... - Look at the picture ;)
  • lolsorhandlolsorhand Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 981 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    Haha!! I just got a nice review on "When All is Said and Done..." - One star, and the text: "It sucked" - no explanation, no nothing. Not easy to make it unsuck if they don't have the courtesy to tell me what to improve. Jeebus...

    There be some evildoers running amock out there I say!
    I like turtles.

    Brethren of the Five, Campaign. - Story focused
    The Dwarven Tale - Hack 'N Slash
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