- To the CW, no one cares about your dps. You're just here to throw adds off the ledges (and pray that no one disconnects and have to deal with respawns). And you're just here for singularities too as well.
- To the TR, no one cares about your dps on trash and your AoE skills. In fact you can just go AFK and we'll buzz you when it is time to kill a boss. You're just here to burn down a boss with your bleeds. No bleeds? oh then we definitely don't care about your dps.
- To the DC, no one cares about your heals. No one cares about your dps either. You just need to press 2 buttons to put down Astral Shield. Nothing else you do really matters.
- To the GF, no one cares about your AoE dps, no one cares about your single target dps. You're just here for one purpose only, and that is to draw aggro.
- To the GWF, well no one really cares about your Single target dps, no one cares about AoE dps, because we can have a CW do that just as well......oh wait a second, nevermind you can stay, since we told the CW and everyone else that no one cared about their DPS. Hec We need someone to DPS!!
Sure if you are a CW and are running with super uber geared/enchanted/specced/skilled players, you probably dont need to do anything else besides Singularities. But the remaining 95% of the player base do not fall into that perfect scenario where all the moons are aligned, and most of them are pugging T2s. So a CW who isn't pulling his weight with adequate dps, is in fact dragging your average geared/specced/skilled party. And this forum IS for your average player, not the 5% "Elites".
Wow Copt, you're really reaching here man and all your examples are so far fetched, that you really look silly, so I won't bother commenting on them. Let's keep it civil bro.
However, in your attempt to troll hard and derail the hell out of the thread, you do make a good point in one area. DPS GF's and GWF's don't reach our level of damage until they are very well geared. But after enough playing, everyone will reach the point of nearly maxing out your gear score eventually. And even in your "Average group" you can still do "Average" DPS and still carry your entire team with expert control skills.
It's perfectly ok to want to do you best and challenge yourself on the DPS meter. But when that meter starts to run your toon and you start caring about "Topping the charts" it probably means you are forgetting about the job you were brought along for, controlling.
0
boconMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
@Bocon, But that is your straw man, I didn't ask for the best spec in just a group dungeon setting where all we are doing is pushing. Now you are just being deliberately obtuse and trolling by pretending as you have from your first post that "pushing" is all we ever do at any point in the game. You are in fact derailing by continuing to repeat yourself. I even agreed that since pushing is not spec dependent then it won't matter which spec you are using to push stuff, but we don't agree that this is all there is to the game. There is pvp, foundry, soloing stuff, upcoming Gauntlgrym. But you can't get past your mindset that all there is in the game is only tier1-2 dungeons, and all that we do is push adds off ledges (which isn't even accurate for all the dungeons btw), and you are simply repeating this fallacy to death. You are nothing but a troll Bocon and I am done feeding you.
Dom, perhaps you're forgetting what the title of your thread is? "So, after the patch, what build is looking best? Thaum, Opp, or still Renegade?" And I commented about the "Best Spec" for a T2, end game dungeon setting". Every single spec can be tweaked and will be different for every single area of the game you just described. So I'm not sure what you exactly want here man. Since specs will vary greatly for every different part of the game.
Wow Copt, you're really reaching here man and all your examples are so far fetched, that you really look silly, so I won't bother commenting on them. Let's keep it civil bro.
However, in your attempt to troll hard and derail the hell out of the thread, you do make a good point in one area. DPS GF's and GWF's don't reach our level of damage until they are very well geared. But after enough playing, everyone will reach the point of nearly maxing out your gear score eventually. And even in your "Average group" you can still do "Average" DPS and still carry your entire team with expert control skills.
It's perfectly ok to want to do you best and challenge yourself on the DPS meter. But when that meter starts to run your toon and you start caring about "Topping the charts" it probably means you are forgetting about the job you were brought along for, controlling.
I was being sarcastic of course, but certainly not far fetched using the same logic you did. Also how was I not civil? oh well.
In any case, what you just said above, I totally agree with. And I do think for the most part we all know this. We do not discuss throwing things off ledges, and spamming Singularities because it is a GIVEN. We all do it. So what else is there to talk about in this forum? So practically all the topics consist of optimizing CWs' secondary role, and that is damage.
Yes, anyone who focuses more on the damage meter and less on what is happening on the run that's causing wipes and such, isn't playing their role right. The recent update is actually forcing CWs to focus more on control and defensive stacking. The mechanics that were in place before then, didn't. So we are adapting.
CW isnt there to do "damage" our support skills are far better, in my opinion. the only times your damage matters is.
1. clearing trash.
2. boss
Anything that includes pushing/bumping and all that ****, doesnt matter, how much damage you inflict, however all this damage adds to the damage meter, which is a load of <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. When posters above say, if you are not doing enough damage you are not pulling your wait. Hold on, ive kept the party alive with cc, does that mean im not pulling my weigh? no wipes, no slow downs, no revives. No according to "Damage meter ownz" Im a bad wizard.
I run thaum. along with high vizier (20-25% extra damage), conduit of ice + ray of enfeeble. it feels like you have the old enfeeble back, which is great for the party, in most suitations, in add clearing it helps, on boss it helps. When aoe clearing i switch to ice conduit tab, shield, icy terrain and steal time (i have lightning weapon enchant). oh sure, icy terrain is bad dps. but hell its one of the best ultility skills we got.
Spec doesnt really matter, i only pick thaum because it gives me an extra debuff.
But thaum is currently bugged to hell, half of the feats dont work or work on very few occasions.
and going renegade will make mobs get combat advantage on you. chaos magic is too random to be reliable. In the end, no one really cares as long as you do your job well. And the really good teams wont care about your damage meter, only your performance.
For example, CN, draco. I prefer to take entangling force, if on repel duty. instead of enfeeble/conduit. why? because one wizard being immobilised for 4-5 seconds is alot more beneficial to the group than a little bit of damage.
some people which is few, bum the damage meter but no one important really cares. in the end, all that matters is the boss dying, and people dont.
Oh and another reason why thaum is "best" is because you can one shot (non-crit) weak mobs, with tabbed chill strike. making it very easy to do solo things (foundry and what not). However the feat "snap freeze" does not work at the moment.
Oh and another reason why thaum is "best" is because you can one shot (non-crit) weak mobs, with tabbed chill strike. making it very easy to do solo things (foundry and what not). However the feat "snap freeze" does not work at the moment.
I went through every feat in the Heroic/Renegade/Thauma trees on PTR and they all seemed to work. Are you sure Snap Freeze doesn't work, and what else in Thauma do you think doesn't work?
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boconMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I was being sarcastic of course, but certainly not far fetched using the same logic you did. Also how was I not civil? oh well.
In any case, what you just said above, I totally agree with. And I do think for the most part we all know this. We do not discuss throwing things off ledges, and spamming Singularities because it is a GIVEN. We all do it. So what else is there to talk about in this forum? So practically all the topics consist of optimizing CWs' secondary role, and that is damage.
Yes, anyone who focuses more on the damage meter and less on what is happening on the run that's causing wipes and such, isn't playing their role right. The recent update is actually forcing CWs to focus more on control and defensive stacking. The mechanics that were in place before then, didn't. So we are adapting.
Agreed. But you must be the luckiest CW ever to have not run across other, less knowledgeable CW's in your group, who didn't even slot Sing, Shield, or Repel in some cases. And from my vast (and obviously unlucky) PUG experience, I'd say only 1/4 of the other CW's I've ran with in a PUG know wtf they are doing. I mean, I'm always scared when I get into a speed run group for spell or spider and the other CW is trying to DPS instead of knock mobs off the cliffs. So I guess a lot of my rant is more directed to those who have no idea how to play the class.
I went through every feat in the Heroic/Renegade/Thauma trees on PTR and they all seemed to work. Are you sure Snap Freeze doesn't work, and what else in Thauma do you think doesn't work?
snap freeze isnt working with anything, so ive tested. my chill strike should be doing over 4k consistantly. however its not.
elemental empowerment is soo messed up right now, it works always with conduit. but other spells doesnt happen or once in a blue moon.
snap freeze isnt working with anything, so ive tested. my chill strike should be doing over 4k consistantly. however its not.
elemental empowerment is soo messed up right now, it works always with conduit. but other spells doesnt happen or once in a blue moon.
I'm going to double check this on PTR - both of these feats seemed to be working on the patch that is now on live. I'll post proof if they work I guess.
elemental empowerment is soo messed up right now, it works always with conduit. but other spells doesnt happen or once in a blue moon.
Elemental Empowerment
Cold Effect:-
Chilling Cloud (On the third hit)
Conduit of Ice
Arcane Effect:-
Steel Time
Shield Pulse
Entangling Force
Repel
Ray of Enfeeblement!! (But in a seriously bugged way, as it looks like it's giving the target a buff, DONT use it)
......When posters above say, if you are not doing enough damage you are not pulling your wait. Hold on, ive kept the party alive with cc, does that mean im not pulling my weigh? no wipes, no slow downs, no revives. No according to "Damage meter ownz" Im a bad wizard.
.
You know that people do die as mobs are being sucked into singularities. You know that freeze breaks quickly. You know that Shield Pulse creates major threat causing many mobs to rush back at you. You cant tell me just because you're spamming Singularities everything is going smoothly. Also what is your job when you're jumped by 3-4 elites at a time? You have some super duper CC that goes through their immunity? What do you do when a party member disconnects and ends up back in the beginning and you've been knocking over mobs off the ledges? And what do you actually do in a pre-clear where you cant even knock mobs over the edges or it is just a waste of a pre-clear?
Again, no one is saying CC is secondary. No one is saying dont knock things off the ledges or throw singularities. But there isn't much to discuss here. It's not like putting 2000 points into some stats, or putting points in some feats will change the concept or even the effectiveness of Singularity/Shield Pulse. There isn't even room to theocraft about this. So what else can we talk about in this forum? should we just ask the admin to shut it down since our role is just as simple as using 2 encounters?
Agreed. But you must be the luckiest CW ever to have not run across other, less knowledgeable CW's in your group, who didn't even slot Sing, Shield, or Repel in some cases. And from my vast (and obviously unlucky) PUG experience, I'd say only 1/4 of the other CW's I've ran with in a PUG know wtf they are doing. I mean, I'm always scared when I get into a speed run group for spell or spider and the other CW is trying to DPS instead of knock mobs off the cliffs. So I guess a lot of my rant is more directed to those who have no idea how to play the class.
I dont know which CW's you run with but i havent seen that issue for a long long time. Maybe you do too many T1 pug runs.
I will say one thing the rene and thaum guides dont correctly explain the tabbed EF, shield, ST combo for most end bosses.
Ive managed to get elemental empowerment to proc on chill strike, a few times. after numerous tests. it was a rare occasion but it did happen. never seen it work on icy terrain yet or ice rays. which is a shame.
also i dont have the best personal damage, but i run high vizier,thaum for ice conduit debuff, and ray on boss fights. so im giving them a ton of increased damage. also, you can knock things off during pre-clear. you just need to know which spots and which ones. Im not saying damage isnt something we should ignore. but it is definately not our primary goal and damage meter is something that shouldnt be taken seriously.
I slot my weapon for greater lightning enchant so when i do icy terrain (works with conduit too.) it does double its original damage (i know it doesnt crit and doesnt do the best damage) but the slow/stun does help keep things running more smoothly. gives healer a breather. and kills trash faster.
Also using shield push before singularity reduces any charge effect mobs will do to get back at you. And shield does alot of damage with no limit. entangling force (tabbed) can group monsters together so your other members can ultilise their aoe.
I use high vizier, thaum spec (for conduit), and slot ray on boss fights, so i provide a ton of increased damage for my entire party.
doing damage isnt the only way to pull your weight. And the key is to be versatile. I'm always switching my spells out between encounters when i can, to deal with each pack most effectively. pushing things off to insta death is alot more faster than doing dps, if you argue about pulling weigh (when possible)
I slot my weapon for greater lightning enchant so when i do icy terrain (works with conduit too.) it does double its original damage (i know it doesnt crit and doesnt do the best damage) but the slow/stun does help keep things running more smoothly. gives healer a breather. and kills trash faster.
I really would like to see Logs important into ACT with the Greater Lightning enchant. My got feelings says that plaguefire is better since the DoT procs Storm Spell which does more damage than a Proc of Greater lightning. But I am very curious to see the numbers. Also do you know of the Greater lightning procs off of the Elemental Empowerment DoT? Thanks
my conclusion what ever your feat is will be useless if you don't combine with your gear you dont need to max 1 feat in T1 you need to combine and thre none pure renegade, opresor or thoum wizard you still to combine them read soo read the feat and combine them all to your need, and lastly we still in open beta i think there are still many will coming out. i think dev quiet listening too our feedback with the last pacth and they should if they want we stil play this game
After doing some CN bosses today. We noticed how Chill stacks sometimes get stuck at a certain value. For example on the first run. Chill did not go beyond 2 stacks on the second boss. The second run it went to 4. While on the first boss it went to 6.
After doing some CN bosses today. We noticed how Chill stacks sometimes get stuck at a certain value. For example on the first run. Chill did not go beyond 2 stacks on the second boss. The second run it went to 4. While on the first boss it went to 6.
I really would like to see Logs important into ACT with the Greater Lightning enchant. My got feelings says that plaguefire is better since the DoT procs Storm Spell which does more damage than a Proc of Greater lightning. But I am very curious to see the numbers. Also do you know of the Greater lightning procs off of the Elemental Empowerment DoT? Thanks
I normally would agree about plaguefire, in certain cases (as a 10%ish damage increase buff) but it does not do as much damage. greater lightning does 31.5% weapon damage compared to plague's 15%. Also i use high vizier so plague fire kinda becomes redundant to me.
also doesnt activate on elemental empowerment, i believe that acts like a passive weapon enchant.
I normally would agree about plaguefire, in certain cases (as a 10%ish damage increase buff) but it does not do as much damage. greater lightning does 31.5% weapon damage compared to plague's 15%. Also i use high vizier so plague fire kinda becomes redundant to me.
also doesnt activate on elemental empowerment, i believe that acts like a passive weapon enchant.
So the real question is, do the extra Storm Spells that proc off of plaguefire's DoT, more than makes up that 15% or not. I mean 15% extra weapon damage that's like 120damage. Storm Spells can proc for well over 1500damage. We need a full time Theocrafter. :P
So the real question is, do the extra Storm Spells that proc off of plaguefire's DoT, more than makes up that 15% or not. I mean 15% extra weapon damage that's like 120damage. Storm Spells can proc for well over 1500damage. We need a full time Theocrafter. :P
hmm interesting didnt know that, but that makes it the same i guess. 120x10 = 1200. about the same damage as a storm spell.
oh wait the dot would last for a few seconds more too, so makes it better than lightning. hmm interesting, i do like the lightning effect of the weapon. but storm spell is cooler. I should consider switching but guaranteed 1 shot with chillstrike on weak mobs is nice with lightning. Now i need to find some spare AD....
Anyway, back on topic.
Thaum and renegade are currently bugged, alot of heroic feats are bugged. so its hard to ever tell which one is better. spec.
Another thing, until someone does serious theorycraft, with number crunching and such. its yet to be decided. there are too many variables, and it cant be determined when half of the thaum feats dont even work. also depends on your crit, or recharge rate. what situation you are in. aoe or single target
Though i have not done serious testing, i can safely assume our aoe damage is better than a rogue. (not sure about guard/gwf, having really compared with a seriously geared one.)
But we will NEVER beat a rogue at single deeps. it just isnt built into our skills. and im not talking about beating someone else, im talking about class vs class.
Also damage meters dont count for ****, i had another control wizard say i was **** because i was letting him bump his own singularities, and his damage score was far higher than mine. These wizards dont know the meaning of DPS.
I will concede that a better argument than "we aren't a deeps class" can be made against this thread and that is after the patch so many of our feats are all even more broken than before (check the forum, Evocation isn't affecting hardly anything, High Viziers isn't triggering off much, EotS bugged or garbage? Thaumaturgy final feat not working, etc etc etc). So honestly until Cryptic fixes things to be working correctly as intended theorycrafting doesn't matter much. We'll all be respeccing again when fixes happen, or rage quitting because our class doesn't work.
Not sure you'll need to worry about respeccing the way the game is going. I doubt many will be playing once they get around to actually fixing abilities (if they are capable) and creating content that's actually compelling to play and not just 3 slightly different variations of every other fight with either less or more mob hps and damage output.
Comments
Wow Copt, you're really reaching here man and all your examples are so far fetched, that you really look silly, so I won't bother commenting on them. Let's keep it civil bro.
However, in your attempt to troll hard and derail the hell out of the thread, you do make a good point in one area. DPS GF's and GWF's don't reach our level of damage until they are very well geared. But after enough playing, everyone will reach the point of nearly maxing out your gear score eventually. And even in your "Average group" you can still do "Average" DPS and still carry your entire team with expert control skills.
It's perfectly ok to want to do you best and challenge yourself on the DPS meter. But when that meter starts to run your toon and you start caring about "Topping the charts" it probably means you are forgetting about the job you were brought along for, controlling.
Dom, perhaps you're forgetting what the title of your thread is? "So, after the patch, what build is looking best? Thaum, Opp, or still Renegade?" And I commented about the "Best Spec" for a T2, end game dungeon setting". Every single spec can be tweaked and will be different for every single area of the game you just described. So I'm not sure what you exactly want here man. Since specs will vary greatly for every different part of the game.
I was being sarcastic of course, but certainly not far fetched using the same logic you did. Also how was I not civil? oh well.
In any case, what you just said above, I totally agree with. And I do think for the most part we all know this. We do not discuss throwing things off ledges, and spamming Singularities because it is a GIVEN. We all do it. So what else is there to talk about in this forum? So practically all the topics consist of optimizing CWs' secondary role, and that is damage.
Yes, anyone who focuses more on the damage meter and less on what is happening on the run that's causing wipes and such, isn't playing their role right. The recent update is actually forcing CWs to focus more on control and defensive stacking. The mechanics that were in place before then, didn't. So we are adapting.
CW isnt there to do "damage" our support skills are far better, in my opinion. the only times your damage matters is.
1. clearing trash.
2. boss
Anything that includes pushing/bumping and all that ****, doesnt matter, how much damage you inflict, however all this damage adds to the damage meter, which is a load of <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. When posters above say, if you are not doing enough damage you are not pulling your wait. Hold on, ive kept the party alive with cc, does that mean im not pulling my weigh? no wipes, no slow downs, no revives. No according to "Damage meter ownz" Im a bad wizard.
I run thaum. along with high vizier (20-25% extra damage), conduit of ice + ray of enfeeble. it feels like you have the old enfeeble back, which is great for the party, in most suitations, in add clearing it helps, on boss it helps. When aoe clearing i switch to ice conduit tab, shield, icy terrain and steal time (i have lightning weapon enchant). oh sure, icy terrain is bad dps. but hell its one of the best ultility skills we got.
Spec doesnt really matter, i only pick thaum because it gives me an extra debuff.
But thaum is currently bugged to hell, half of the feats dont work or work on very few occasions.
and going renegade will make mobs get combat advantage on you. chaos magic is too random to be reliable. In the end, no one really cares as long as you do your job well. And the really good teams wont care about your damage meter, only your performance.
For example, CN, draco. I prefer to take entangling force, if on repel duty. instead of enfeeble/conduit. why? because one wizard being immobilised for 4-5 seconds is alot more beneficial to the group than a little bit of damage.
some people which is few, bum the damage meter but no one important really cares. in the end, all that matters is the boss dying, and people dont.
Oh and another reason why thaum is "best" is because you can one shot (non-crit) weak mobs, with tabbed chill strike. making it very easy to do solo things (foundry and what not). However the feat "snap freeze" does not work at the moment.
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
I went through every feat in the Heroic/Renegade/Thauma trees on PTR and they all seemed to work. Are you sure Snap Freeze doesn't work, and what else in Thauma do you think doesn't work?
Agreed. But you must be the luckiest CW ever to have not run across other, less knowledgeable CW's in your group, who didn't even slot Sing, Shield, or Repel in some cases. And from my vast (and obviously unlucky) PUG experience, I'd say only 1/4 of the other CW's I've ran with in a PUG know wtf they are doing. I mean, I'm always scared when I get into a speed run group for spell or spider and the other CW is trying to DPS instead of knock mobs off the cliffs. So I guess a lot of my rant is more directed to those who have no idea how to play the class.
snap freeze isnt working with anything, so ive tested. my chill strike should be doing over 4k consistantly. however its not.
elemental empowerment is soo messed up right now, it works always with conduit. but other spells doesnt happen or once in a blue moon.
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
I'm going to double check this on PTR - both of these feats seemed to be working on the patch that is now on live. I'll post proof if they work I guess.
Elemental Empowerment
Cold Effect:-
Chilling Cloud (On the third hit)
Conduit of Ice
Arcane Effect:-
Steel Time
Shield Pulse
Entangling Force
Repel
Ray of Enfeeblement!! (But in a seriously bugged way, as it looks like it's giving the target a buff, DONT use it)
You know that people do die as mobs are being sucked into singularities. You know that freeze breaks quickly. You know that Shield Pulse creates major threat causing many mobs to rush back at you. You cant tell me just because you're spamming Singularities everything is going smoothly. Also what is your job when you're jumped by 3-4 elites at a time? You have some super duper CC that goes through their immunity? What do you do when a party member disconnects and ends up back in the beginning and you've been knocking over mobs off the ledges? And what do you actually do in a pre-clear where you cant even knock mobs over the edges or it is just a waste of a pre-clear?
Again, no one is saying CC is secondary. No one is saying dont knock things off the ledges or throw singularities. But there isn't much to discuss here. It's not like putting 2000 points into some stats, or putting points in some feats will change the concept or even the effectiveness of Singularity/Shield Pulse. There isn't even room to theocraft about this. So what else can we talk about in this forum? should we just ask the admin to shut it down since our role is just as simple as using 2 encounters?
I dont know which CW's you run with but i havent seen that issue for a long long time. Maybe you do too many T1 pug runs.
I will say one thing the rene and thaum guides dont correctly explain the tabbed EF, shield, ST combo for most end bosses.
also i dont have the best personal damage, but i run high vizier,thaum for ice conduit debuff, and ray on boss fights. so im giving them a ton of increased damage. also, you can knock things off during pre-clear. you just need to know which spots and which ones. Im not saying damage isnt something we should ignore. but it is definately not our primary goal and damage meter is something that shouldnt be taken seriously.
I slot my weapon for greater lightning enchant so when i do icy terrain (works with conduit too.) it does double its original damage (i know it doesnt crit and doesnt do the best damage) but the slow/stun does help keep things running more smoothly. gives healer a breather. and kills trash faster.
Also using shield push before singularity reduces any charge effect mobs will do to get back at you. And shield does alot of damage with no limit. entangling force (tabbed) can group monsters together so your other members can ultilise their aoe.
I use high vizier, thaum spec (for conduit), and slot ray on boss fights, so i provide a ton of increased damage for my entire party.
doing damage isnt the only way to pull your weight. And the key is to be versatile. I'm always switching my spells out between encounters when i can, to deal with each pack most effectively. pushing things off to insta death is alot more faster than doing dps, if you argue about pulling weigh (when possible)
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
I really would like to see Logs important into ACT with the Greater Lightning enchant. My got feelings says that plaguefire is better since the DoT procs Storm Spell which does more damage than a Proc of Greater lightning. But I am very curious to see the numbers. Also do you know of the Greater lightning procs off of the Elemental Empowerment DoT? Thanks
I think this patch broke us instead of making us.
True story !
I normally would agree about plaguefire, in certain cases (as a 10%ish damage increase buff) but it does not do as much damage. greater lightning does 31.5% weapon damage compared to plague's 15%. Also i use high vizier so plague fire kinda becomes redundant to me.
also doesnt activate on elemental empowerment, i believe that acts like a passive weapon enchant.
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
So the real question is, do the extra Storm Spells that proc off of plaguefire's DoT, more than makes up that 15% or not. I mean 15% extra weapon damage that's like 120damage. Storm Spells can proc for well over 1500damage. We need a full time Theocrafter. :P
hmm interesting didnt know that, but that makes it the same i guess. 120x10 = 1200. about the same damage as a storm spell.
oh wait the dot would last for a few seconds more too, so makes it better than lightning. hmm interesting, i do like the lightning effect of the weapon. but storm spell is cooler. I should consider switching but guaranteed 1 shot with chillstrike on weak mobs is nice with lightning. Now i need to find some spare AD....
Anyway, back on topic.
Thaum and renegade are currently bugged, alot of heroic feats are bugged. so its hard to ever tell which one is better. spec.
Another thing, until someone does serious theorycraft, with number crunching and such. its yet to be decided. there are too many variables, and it cant be determined when half of the thaum feats dont even work. also depends on your crit, or recharge rate. what situation you are in. aoe or single target
Though i have not done serious testing, i can safely assume our aoe damage is better than a rogue. (not sure about guard/gwf, having really compared with a seriously geared one.)
But we will NEVER beat a rogue at single deeps. it just isnt built into our skills. and im not talking about beating someone else, im talking about class vs class.
Also damage meters dont count for ****, i had another control wizard say i was **** because i was letting him bump his own singularities, and his damage score was far higher than mine. These wizards dont know the meaning of DPS.
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
Not sure you'll need to worry about respeccing the way the game is going. I doubt many will be playing once they get around to actually fixing abilities (if they are capable) and creating content that's actually compelling to play and not just 3 slightly different variations of every other fight with either less or more mob hps and damage output.