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GWF need some love!!
rottensw0rd
Member Posts: 31
What do i mean? well the GWF are way UP (Under Power) right now and that its not fun..I mean i like a brutal guy with a giant sword but in that game they are pretty much useless..all the other races are way better and stronger and i dont get the why or the reason behind that design so can we rework GWF kit in order to be able to do something in that game?
Because pretty much is like that
PVP? Hell no you get killed before you even get in range
Dungeon? Hell no you do nothing all the other races deal way more damage than you
Quest? Well maybe..but again it way more easy for some other race!!!
So can we just rework them? i know they getting buffed but if you look the skills they buff they are pretty much useless..I mean who use Leap on GWF? for real..
Edit GWF need buffs on
*Restoring Strike- (He get one but a damage buff will be nice)
*Flourish- it say that he stun but the 90% of the time the target never stunned i don't know if that is a bug! (Plus a small damage buff will be good) The CoolDown is fine!
*Indomitable Battle Strike- The CoolDown is way to high and pretty much that skill is your main skill damage! (The damage is good but hell its a 50 lvl skill)
And for last he need an Attack Speed buff jesus he is so slow when he attack..I mean yeah i know you have the detirmination skill!! But hey guardians have the shield ON i dont see them to have bad armor scale in order to cover that..
So why the GWF have such a bad Attack Speed? i dont get it!!!
GFW main damage is from his sword if he attack so slow how he is gonna deal damage?
Seriously creators of this game before the game hit LIVE rework the GWF kit!!
PS sorry for my english
Because pretty much is like that
PVP? Hell no you get killed before you even get in range
Dungeon? Hell no you do nothing all the other races deal way more damage than you
Quest? Well maybe..but again it way more easy for some other race!!!
So can we just rework them? i know they getting buffed but if you look the skills they buff they are pretty much useless..I mean who use Leap on GWF? for real..
Edit GWF need buffs on
*Restoring Strike- (He get one but a damage buff will be nice)
*Flourish- it say that he stun but the 90% of the time the target never stunned i don't know if that is a bug! (Plus a small damage buff will be good) The CoolDown is fine!
*Indomitable Battle Strike- The CoolDown is way to high and pretty much that skill is your main skill damage! (The damage is good but hell its a 50 lvl skill)
And for last he need an Attack Speed buff jesus he is so slow when he attack..I mean yeah i know you have the detirmination skill!! But hey guardians have the shield ON i dont see them to have bad armor scale in order to cover that..
So why the GWF have such a bad Attack Speed? i dont get it!!!
GFW main damage is from his sword if he attack so slow how he is gonna deal damage?
Seriously creators of this game before the game hit LIVE rework the GWF kit!!
PS sorry for my english
Post edited by rottensw0rd on
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I do agree compared to other classes GWF feels weak. So far, I've played every class to 35 and geared them all in AD blues.
This whole weekend I played on all of them from 35 up. Although the GWF feels better it stills feels slower to quest although I'm finishing in 2nd in most skirmishes and dungeons and i'm even tanking a bit on occasion when Main Tank is busy.
Kracht
EDIT:
I've since grown to hate the class, my excitement was too early on, I had a new ability and thought it made a difference, not really after a bit. I retract my previous excitement over this class.
I agree with the OP, and will go even a step further...DELETE THE CLASS from the character archives, start over, Cryptic you completely missed the mark on this class.
Instigator, buffed.
Destroyer, buffed.
Sentinel, seriously I just rerolled a second GFW with a more Sentinel friendly race/starting roll just because its looking sexy as hell.
Keep in mind both CW and TR got slight nerfs, so GFW is going to be far more on par than it was.
So they need to add some AOE strong ability to buff his AS for god sake and to add some damage
And not buff skill leap..jesus i saw that buff and i was like WTF they doing..
Plus the nerfs on CW and TR are not gonna touch them to much only in PVP mode still they are the gods on dungeons
And still the GWF is still useless there
And in 3 posts you have demonstrated your complete lack of knowledge regarding gwf.
i main GWF..first and yeah go check the buff they do at the Instigator,Destroyer and then come tell me how good they are..
You sir, have no idea how to play this game. Please tell me, what's buffed?... A very, VERY minor buff to sure-strike and wicked-strike... and a few CD reductions, mostly on pvp or useless skills. GWFs are still not going to be used in PvE at all... the new meta after patch is going to be 1dc/1tr/1gf/2cw. GWFs have no room in dungeons, their dmg is way too low, and is next to useless. "AoE" damage that get's reduced when we do it (lolwtf?), plus there's no need for AoE damage.. you have wizards knocking packs off edges all day. Go do spellplague or CN, last boss in each dungeon the GWF literally doesn't do anything.
Pretty much this^ I mean when i enter dungeons and i see that we have 2 GWF me and someone else i already know that we are not gonna finish it!! First because the reason you just say *wizzards knocking packs off edges* and the lack of CC that the GWF have..
BUT HEY THEY BUFF LEAP hahahahaha i dont know what is going on..ANd the not so fast if you use it on AOE your damage is lower THAT ACTUALLY make me loled hard..i dont know GWF have only one AOE encounter and that AOE only hit for 1.3k damage at lvl 60 (before armor) so imagine with armor it hit for nothing..and its AOE skill who get more damage if you hit single target? WTH CREATORS of this game? IF i want single target damage i will use Indomitable Battle Strike who hit for 7.7k damage..that why i say they just need to complete rework him and not buff are gonna help him if the buffs are like that..
Seze - Rogue - Necropolis -
Also the game needs some new weapons and equipment, bows, ******* swords (a weapon that can be used at a two handed, or a one handed with a shield), pikes, ex... having the same lame sword and armor combo through the levels kinda sucks (I'm just now early 30s so idk if it gets better, but I haven't read anything encouraging).
If the GWF was the versatile fighter who could make due with any weapon combo (duel axe/warhamer, long bow, ******* sword/shield, battle axe, whatever) I could see them embodying their more versatile roll. Like grabbing a Great sword if they wanted to do crazy high damage slow AOE swings, or a longbow to do single target (low agro) DPS. this way the support roll feels more like a choice and is at least fun.
anyway just some thoughts
His damage against the mobs in dungeon its pathetic i have 5k damage and i dont even know how much critical and armor pene and i still hit like a **** in the start i was believing that i am doing something wrong so inspect many other GWF and i see that their damage is like 3-4k lvl 60..so it not me its the GWF who deal no damage because he have no AS because his encounters are pretty much useless against many mobs because he dont have AOE damage!! Yeah in boss fight maybe he will deal some damage because its 1vs1 but again the daily and encounter skills of the other races still outdamage you by far..
I hate you. Don't want to be mean but I hate you. How can you say the gwf is anything but suckage? Please be more informed.
I could keep going but what's the point, shorter cds mean more dps. How is that hard to figure out?
As for knocking **** of cliffs that has nothing to do with dps. That isn't a class issue that is an issue with dungeon design. Only way to fix that is invisible walls or to give gfws a similar knockback to dc's and cw's, which would just lead to everyone just knocking **** off cliffs and where is the fun in that.
Honestly if you are that bad at the class go play another, or play a different game. They are working on balance so there is no reason to cry, especially when you admit you haven't even been on preview to test it.
First not so fast damage is 1.1k right now after the buff is gonna be what 1.5k? omg so AMAZING AN AOE WHO DO 1.5K what amazing..omg WE SHOULD BE HAPPY ABOUT THAT and YEAH WE SHOULD TOTTALY USE IT OVER THE OTHER ENCOUNTERS WHO DEAL 7K DAMAGE YEAH DUDE YOU HAVE NICE logic..Second Takedown CD reduce yeah only CD reduce on AA champs...yeah now he will not have 14 seconds he will have 10..Yeah hm...all the other races have 6-8 second CD skills..Yeah SO MUCH BALANCE!!!!
You could keep going? oh pls keep continue..because you will say about the feat buffs huh? YEAH so now they force you to play a supper aggressive GWF so that mean in pvp you will die even faster THAT BALANCE BRO TRUST US!!! Then you speak about Dungeon you think the only problem is the knocking off? A TR deal 700k damage you know how much a AOW GFW (The most aggresive DPS Build for GWF) 300K damage DO you see the difference? or you want me to CONTINUE? And honestly bad? how many GWF you know that they have AOW gear? and how many GWF you know that they have 5.5k damage? And like i say before THE GFW they dont need balance they NEED REWORK ON THEIR KIT
So now you know!! So before you try to reply to me do some math learn about the game LEARN about me and my char and come talk to me then!!
And when i say that this race need Rework that mean that this race need REWORK!
adhal81 is absolutely right, the patch is very good for both, GWF and GF, it will be a great damage improve (for Guardian threat improve) if you know how to play. And he is absolutely right again when he says the only thing that needs to be fixed is invisible walls in dungeons. Seriously. Cryptic pls do this. The knockback mechanic is the most HAMSTER thing in the entire game. Nerf the adds and add invisible walls. Pls. It would balance the game so much.
I dont have AoW Set, but i have strong similar gear 11,5k GS as GWF and every dungeon I go with randoms im by far the best Damage Dealer. When I go with my guildmates Rogue and Mage which have similar gear like I do, they deal more damage than me. By more I mean about 20 %. And they definitly know how to play. So yes, GWF is underpowered and yes, he needs a buff. But no, he doesn't need a bigger buff than he's receiving right now. I feel like the patch will be the best thing that could ever happen to this game. More WS damage, more SS damage, More NoT so fast damage, less CD, temporarly health from Unstoppable, Roar less CD, etc. In addition GF threat gets fixed and Cleric threat gets fixed, too AND they nerf the Double Cleric bull****.
Nice patch. No reason to rage. I don't like to say it but when you can't deal enough damage with that patch, just L2P.
Once deciphered it read like this:
Blah, blah, pulling numbers out my ***, blah, blah. ZOMG I'M 13 SO I CANZ TYPZE INZ ALZ CAPZZ!! Blah, blah. I have so much gear so that makes me elite blah blah.
So let's take a step back, gear does not equal skill so quit thinking it does. In fact in my former guild in wow we made tons of gold and real money selling items from raids to people with no skill. You brag about full AoW but if you were smart you would only use 2 pieces. In fact I could brag about having them too if I wanted but no point in buying atm as they drop by thousands by the day. Nor would I brag if I did because gear does not equal skill.
So do you want to provide some actual proof to back up your claim, or do you want to keep posting rants like a child who just hit puberty. I'm still trying to figure out how you only hit 7k IBS with all this gear you supposedly have. Most likely your still stacking power.
Are you for friggin real? That is like over 2 million AD. "As many Greater Tenebrous you can get..."!!! I can't even imagine how you have that setup. Why would a TR not benefit more from those enchantments? Their At-Wills are quicker than ours. More chance of them proc-ting... serious question, not being sarcastic.
Your initial sentence was just mystifying. I think enough people will realize your value just from that sentence alone.
Have you played on the test server? Have you gone through a T2 dungeon in there? If you have then you know nothing has changed. And you know the damage is boost is irrelevant.
You at least seem to understand that it is a game design issue, the issue being knocking mobs off of bridges and such. Well dude, they did not change that in the patch so if you understand this, how the heck can you say the patch is good for GWF? Seriously how?
Let me try to put it this way... I hope you like football...
Suppose one year the rules committee said from now on no more passing for more than 3 yards. If you throw that ball for more than 3 yards you will be penalized. Well this is going to make Peyton, Brady, Brees really pissed off. Rg3, Kaepernick and Newton are going to ok. Gonna (maybe) make the Running backs happy. Because for intents and purpose it became a running game. Well after a year of truly boring football, the rules committee realizes they were wrong and that the pocket passer needs a boost in the rules. So they say, a pocket passer cannot be rushed. Now after this "fix" or shall we say "patch" the pocket passer QBs shrug and scratch their heads and ask, "How does this help us?" The problem is not that we were getting rushed and could not make the throw, the problem was we can only throw it 3 yards. But the rest of the players are like whatever maybe it will help lets go see. You know who the GWF is in this story? THE FRAKEN WIDE RECEIVERS WHO GOT SLAMMED IN THE FIRST RULE CHANGE AND GOT SLAMMED IN THE PATCH! Because if you don't throw the 3 yard rule out the WR is worthless. Unless you turn that WR into a 5 foot 10 tank running back, he is not getting a job in the NFL.
adhal81... seriously man stop the fanboi butt kissing. Please. You know the problem and they did not fix the problem. How can you raise your brown smeared nose and tell us the GWF is better?
Yes they still NEED to fix that, but as I said that is a dungeon design flaw, not a class flaw. Few months from now, if the game is still about who can punt mobs the farthest I probably won't be playing.
Some of you need to seriously get more grounded in reality. Last thing we need is GFW becoming OP, we need classes balanced. You don't get balance through knee jerk reactions.
Game Design: They are not going to change the game design. They are not going to put the invisible walls. There is a difference between a mistake and bad design. The CN boss farming run, where you can bypass the first three bosses and go straight to the last boss to farm the Ancient weapons... that is a mistake. The devs did not intend for people to jump throw a wall in the hallway and run through the underbelly of the instance and then kill themselves to get to a campfire that bypassed the first three bosses. That they will fix. It seems to take them forever but whatever. Bad design does not get fixed. Your stuck with it. They knew people were going to toss the mobs off the bridge. If they did not know that then the game is doomed because they are idiots. What they did not seem to take into account is the GWF and his role in such an atmosphere.
Check it out. In the current MMO design of PvE it is no longer the holy trinity. It is actually three+1. Tank, healer, dps and now CC. This is evident in this game. Where does the GWF fit into that 3+1? He doesn't so he is the first class outside that required 4. Given that you can go several ways with him. You can make him a flavor character. Does nearly or exactly the same thing as another class but he wields a 2 handed sword/melee toon. As opposed to a two dagger wielding rogue that jumps around everywhere. Eventually it will come down to that. It has to. There are only 4 different roles right? The other thing they could have done is make him the jack of all trades. A little bit of tanking, a little bit of CC, a little bit of dps. It seems NW went with the latter. This in lies my frustration. Going with the JoaT role they designed a dungeon system in the end game that makes such a role impotent. Not just the knocking off the bridge, but infinite aggro reach, bypassing mobs, large campfire zone, and the insane HPs even the adds have. If you took all the above stuff away a T2 dungeon would take hours!!! And maybe that is what it should be. CN would be a marathon. That last boss fight alone would be near an hour. It is like 20 minutes as is with the mobs being tossed over the side.
Therefore asking them to change the dungeon design would also be asking them to change every class but the GWF. Maybe even him. Therefore the only solution I see is to go with flavor for the GWF. He doesn't and probably should not be on an even par, but he has to be really close, depending on the paragon path he chooses. If he goes instigator he needs to do so much AOE damage/mitigation that people will just say, hell with the bridge, we will just burn them down with the GWF. If he goes Destroyer the zone party finding ad should be "Looking for TR or GWF" Same with sentinel. He should be close to what the GF offers just maybe not as good. And to be honest the patch might have made sentinel a viable alternative IF they did not buff the GF and nerf DC so much.
As it stands this is what they did. The buffed the GWF slightly. And nerfed TR/CW/DC. Everyone says that TR and CW needed to be nerfed. Now, the stacking of mitigation might needed to be removed so that the synergy of a two TR is not so overwhelming that that is what everyone wants. The same with CW and DC. The devs in their infinite vision foresaw this problem and gave two GWF no synergy at all. OK that is not true, I guess two GWF spamming daring shout and wms would elminate everyones damage resists to nothing. That being said, I don't want to fight a boss for 20 minutes to kill it! I don't want to do that. It is tedious as heck! And by nerfing the TR just a bit and not buffing the GWF enough makes the need for two TR even greater! Before if you had a stud TR they would tolerate a GWF. Now, hell no. No one will want to take a gwf because the TR can no longer carry his crappy behind! As for CC and tank... no on CC-ing because nothing in dungeon design has changed. As for tanking... the cry for the GF will probably be greater and if you guys want to know the ugly truth, this patch was not about fixing the GWF or balance, it was about making that "core" role work right. Read through it all and see the big picture of the nerfs/buffs.
I truly believe the devs have no idea what they want to do with the GWF. I think this issue is what is holding back the ranger. Because if they released another class that far out shines the GWF in dps or if they design the ranger to be the "flavor" character to the TR, that would make GWF even worse.
And the reason I get upset reading posts from adhal81, is because you seem to lack a fundamental understanding. It is not to make the GWF OP, it is to make him viable. Not better, but viable. He is not now and he is not after the patch. And if you took some time to think about it instead of just basing it solely on your experience alone, you would see the fraken trees before the forest.
I stop reading there..OK dude now we all know that you know nothing about this game and i am sure you are not even lvl 60 !! Hhahahaha if you want AOW to be effective you only need 2 pieces? hHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH i am done with you bro when you hit lvl 60 and you learn how the very rare items work come here again hahahahahha
And yeah i mention it that my english is not my first language so that mean you dont even read my post you just come to this thread to troll ok !! now we all know!!
Quoted for comedy.
You need TL"DR :P But anyway i read some of your stuff and this is what i try to explain to this troll Because right now or after the patch the GWF it will be the same just with sorter CD on some skills and some buffs on useless skills..So they dont need to BUFF BUFF BUFF BUFF because this will lead to OVer power class they need to rework him from the start
More AS on AA
More damage on AA
Better AOE skills
More benefit from Critical (All his main damage is from AA)
i take some idea from league of legends here and i want to mention Tryndamere The GWF is like him a champ with his main damage come from his AA so he need some mechanics in order that AA to deal damage
The TR have way MORE AS and they have skills who deal 5x more the damage of GWF so their is no balance
So no nerfs or buffs is a good idea but a good rework for this class will help GWF for good!
The only question that should be asked is:
If your t2 dungeon group had cleric, rogue, cw, and GF and you needed 1 more which class would you choose considering all of them were of equal skill. Answer this honestly and you will get to the meat of the issue.