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My Pre-Patch Thoughts
nymesis92
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 270 Bounty Hunter
Alright with all the crazyness going on surrounding the Devoted Cleric changes I feel like I should chime in...
Level 60 Devoted Cleric here. I run CN a few times a day. Sometimes solo sometimes duo DC. I consider my self to be a pretty good DC and here are my thoughts on the changes coming to us.
Cleanse Change : Don't really care about this considering that the only thing my group uses it for is to dispel the revive sickness. I mean I can't think of anything PVE wise that makes me feel like I should absolutely have this.
Astral Shield Change : Taking away the ability to the stack this spell was needed. The spell lasting as long as it is currently was never suppose to happen so people are just going to have to deal with the cool down change. Bottom line...people are going to have to play smarter and use it when it's really needed. Other classes will have to use their CC when AS is on CD, people will have to adapt to the change, that's it.
Ethereal Boon : This is the ONLY thing about the Cleric changes that I am worried about. Guys we have been getting 2x the amount of Divine Power that we were suppose to be getting from this Feat. If you have any trouble at all right now managing divine power and you have points into this Feat...I'll say a prayer for you after this patch goes live.
Don't care about any of the other changes.
Guys remember that their is a LOT of other changes coming our way, not just this Astral Shield nerf as you all are calling it. I refuse to call it that because it was NEVER intended to work this way in the first place. Consider your self lucky to have had this long to accomplish all the things you have accomplished so far while these skills were broken.
Our aggro is being fixed, GFs will be able to tank..the list goes on and on with all the changes we are about to see. The game will be completely different after this patch.
Thanks for reading. Discuss and keep it clean.
Level 60 Devoted Cleric here. I run CN a few times a day. Sometimes solo sometimes duo DC. I consider my self to be a pretty good DC and here are my thoughts on the changes coming to us.
Cleanse Change : Don't really care about this considering that the only thing my group uses it for is to dispel the revive sickness. I mean I can't think of anything PVE wise that makes me feel like I should absolutely have this.
Astral Shield Change : Taking away the ability to the stack this spell was needed. The spell lasting as long as it is currently was never suppose to happen so people are just going to have to deal with the cool down change. Bottom line...people are going to have to play smarter and use it when it's really needed. Other classes will have to use their CC when AS is on CD, people will have to adapt to the change, that's it.
Ethereal Boon : This is the ONLY thing about the Cleric changes that I am worried about. Guys we have been getting 2x the amount of Divine Power that we were suppose to be getting from this Feat. If you have any trouble at all right now managing divine power and you have points into this Feat...I'll say a prayer for you after this patch goes live.
Don't care about any of the other changes.
Guys remember that their is a LOT of other changes coming our way, not just this Astral Shield nerf as you all are calling it. I refuse to call it that because it was NEVER intended to work this way in the first place. Consider your self lucky to have had this long to accomplish all the things you have accomplished so far while these skills were broken.
Our aggro is being fixed, GFs will be able to tank..the list goes on and on with all the changes we are about to see. The game will be completely different after this patch.
Thanks for reading. Discuss and keep it clean.
Post edited by nymesis92 on
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I've played on it.
Make whatever changes you want because we'll adapt.
Yep. But you see here's the thing, I play the game for fun and amusement. It's not a job, and it certainly isn't something I have to adapt to if my adapting doesn't increase my enjoyment of the game. When I cease having fun is when I cease putting any more time into the game.
So when they finally get around to changes you don't like or don't agree with you find yourself in a lonely place...why?
Because the rest of us would have moved on, either to another class or to another activity.
Maybe these changes are ok with you, but they are clearly not ok with some others. Not something unprecedented in MMOs for sure, but do you think the changes are going to lead more people to play the cleric or less?
I'm not saying that I'm quitting on the class or on the game, yet.
I am saying if those who play the cleric don't advocate for the cleric, we have no one to blame but ourselves when they make changes that we don't like.
If they make changes I agree with, I'll gladly advocate for them.
If they make changes I disagree with, I'll disagree.
If they make changes I really don't care about, I'll probably just keep quiet and leave it at that.
I disagree. If these changes that we are looking at getting were in the game from the very first day of "Open Beta" do you think people actually would not play the class?
I think we, the players would have adapted. We would have gauged what our class can handle vs what we were going up against and implemented a necessary rotation or build. Dungeons wouldn't be just "pull as many mobs as you can and stand in the double blue circles". Groups of mobs would have to be pulled when skills aren't on CD and so on.
We have literally been playing this game in a broken state. All of this should have NEVER worked the way it has.
I just did some testing on Mimic server. Not sure which thread to throw this in so I guess I'll put it here. This is more on how important AS is and less on how people will complete content with the nerf, just fyi.
I ran Epic Spider with DC, GWFx2, TR, GF. The DC (myself) is full t2 and CN set. GF is a regular in my groups and has full t2 and CN set. One of the GWFs was full T2, CN set, perfect enchant, GS over 13k. TR and GWF#2 were in mostly t2 and some t1/pvp gear. All that is to just give an idea of how strong the group was. TR was also a friend, not a pug.
First I wanted to try running without AS at all, so I did that. I was using Sunburst, D-FF, and then rotating between Healing Word and Bastion of Health, testing both. Everyone learned pretty quick why AS is so important. We wiped on the first boss, or near enough at least, we killed him but the last of us died as soon as the boss died.
We wiped once or twice clearing to the 2nd boss. A large part of this was the lack of AS, but the cleanse nerf also played a serious role. The revive debuff thing makes a HUGE difference. We managed to kill the 2nd boss without any permanent deaths, miraculously.
We then wiped, gloriously I might add, to the phase spiders before boss room. I anticipated that, of course. We lasted about 15 seconds I think. I pulled out AS to get past them.
Finally, I wanted to try the final boss without AS. As you might have guessed, we wiped within a minute, probably closer to 40 seconds. Yeah, then we went and killed her while I used AS, but that is hardly worth notice considering our gear far outstripping the place.
None of this testing is super useful except to say that Astral Shield is without a doubt the SINGLE REQUIRED POWER in the game. Every other ability, regardless of class, is interchangeable and optional. Astral Shield is absolutely required for any remotely difficult content, and the difference between using the power and not using it is astounding.
Actually when I read what people were writing about the different classes, Astral shield was one of the reasons I started with cleric.
So yeah if the duration was only 10 seconds from the start, and cleanse was on a 20 second cooldown, I'm pretty sure folks like unspecified would have had a different take.
People figured out how strong the spell is by it's self, then figured out that it stacked and here we are now. People actually literally thinking that our class is going to become useless if we don't have a 20 second Astral Shield.
Utterly pathetic.
People not realizing the fact that all the other spells are sub par because you have to look at the entire game including pvp, utterly pathetic.
We've never had a 20 second Astral Shield - it's always been 15 seconds.
Just to be clear, I didn't say that AS was the only reason I started with cleric. But it certainly was a reason.
And my point is that the early reviews and guides people wrote I'm sure had an impact what character people chose. So yes, I'm pretty sure there would have been people who wouldn't have played the class because those reviews and guides would have been different had all the changes (not just for Cleric) been instituted from the start of OB.
For me the draw wasn't about AS stacking but about the ability to keep the spell up 100% of the time.
Which is why I proposed in a different thread to lower the AS cooldown if they insisted changing the duration to 10 seconds.
As for useless? I wouldn't say that, but annoying enough for me to focus on a different class? Possibly.
Though I am curious. How is PvP working out?
So you would like other DCs to champion your cause,but don't give two hoots about other DC concerns ?
I could be reading that the wrong way of coarse,I am old and senile. lol
Just to be clear I do play DC.I don't use or intend to use AS.None of the skill changes have effected me what so ever as they aren't part of my build.
I do however care about my fellow DCs concerns.
terribly. we are the nom nom targets even more
"Thanks for reading. Discuss and keep it clean". - this is the last line of your original post.
Yet a short while later you resort to insulting people because their discussed views - which you asked for - differ from yours.
I'd stop there if I was you. It is obvious from reading the myriad of other posts that a lot of experienced Clerics have diametrically opposing views to yourself. You must have been aware of this before posting, yet cannot last more than a handful of replies without resorting to general name calling.
You don't really want to have an open discussion you just want people to agree with everything you say, despite significant evidence to the contrary from a spread of other players.
"Mod 6. Oh my f****** god. It gutted the game pure and simple. And what wasn't gutted was messed up by the poorly thought out new level cap and equip. The game never recovered from that atrocity".
..............not this one then.............
Gee who'd have thought...
I am almost certain people will complain. A lot. If you are the only cleric in a lategame dungeon, and you're not using AS, you are going to get kicked for a cleric who does. People may even just quit halfway through a dungeon once they realise they can't see the magic blue circle.
Even post-nerf, it's going to be our go-to skill. In all honesty, once of the nice things about AS as it currently stands is that really, as long as you bring that, your other skills are more or less up to you: you could be a full DPS-specced cleric as long as you also have AS on your bar. Sure, you might have a tougher time of it as a group because you won't be throwing out so many incidental heals, but as long as you're sticking down the blue on cooldown, you're free to have fun.
If we have to start preparing for party survival in the downtime between shields, we're going to be more limited in our options, since we'll have to dedicate more of the skillbar to actual heals.
Or, hey, just run in two-DC groups, since I suspect that's what everyone will want.
Then you have not ever completed CN.
I was not directly insulting anyone though. I was just generalizing. It's just sad to see so many people succumb to the "easy way" and then think that class will become useless if we are not able to have 100% uptime on Astral Shield.
Apologies if I came off the wrong way with that last post.
If a fellow cleric would like me to add my support for things that currently don't effect me,I would be more likely to do that if I knew support was reciprocal.
Wether or not I've completed CN is null and void in terms of supporting a cause.
@morsitans:I'm well aware of DC dungeon runners plight and I've already stated elsewhere my concern for fellow DC.
Stating however that all DC should flock to support what one cares about and then admitting if it didn't effect oneself,then one would probably keep quiet and leave it at that,does not encourage anyone not effected to jump onside.
I do care about the issue and my fellow DC however,or I wouldn't be reading the umpteenth thread on this issue.
My statement stands.
You're advocating being vehemently...something, about things someone has no opinion on, because you want to support your fellow DCs. I mean, if a change that has zero effect on me personally is mooted, and half the forum is saying "this is a great change" and the other half is saying "OMG NOOOO".....how exactly should I support my fellow DCs?
If an issue affects you, then defend/support it. If an issue does not affect you whatsoever, then...take 5. It's the only way to be consistent.
And that is where I stand at present.
Here's what I replied to.
Quoted from maukadweller
I am saying if those who play the cleric don't advocate for the cleric, we have no one to blame but ourselves when they make changes that we don't like.
If they make changes I really don't care about, I'll probably just keep quiet and leave it at that.
you should be replying to him.
I also stated that because I'm old/senile and quite tired atm I may have misunderstood him.
EDIT:Seems the forum gave me a double quote,edited for goodness.
You lost us when you said you had Healing Word on your bar. You lost us again when you state you have a strong group and then wiped on the first boss.
I have ran several tests in this exact instance multiple times, W/O a GF, GWF and had no issues healing any of it, until the phase spiders, that's mostly due to the incredible amount of burst damage the spiders put out.
I have to agree with the original poster on this issue. The AS correction (not a Nerf) was needed. Nerf implies that the spell is being altered from its original purpose that it was intended for. This is not the case, AS was never intended to function the way it currently does on the Live server, nor was it intended to stack, this was a means of exploiting the game, from a pure survival stand point and was necessary with the current aggro mechanics on the liver server.
I think that most people playing cleric do not truly understand their role, the class is supposed to fill. You are the utility, off-dps, buff and de-buff, with survivability heals. In the testing I have done on the test server, I only see a need to AS on certain boss fights where the tank or the person playing the tank is about to take a big hit. We no longer need this ability to keep us alive as the aggro mechanic is now fixed.
Maybe instead of healing word you should run, Divine glow, which will de-buff the party assist with DPS, in divine mode it will buff the party, you can run forge-masters flame for a divine heal as well which would allow linked spirit to proc (if you have it spec'd) without throwing the mob all over the place with Divine sunburst. You can then us AS as the oh HAMSTER button that it is supposed to be, or for the tougher fights, allowing you to play the role the cleric is intended to play which again is utility, survivability heals, and off-dps (for lack of a better term).
The way AS works in live is a bug and it should never have worked like it does. We have to find ways to work around it. Usually I'd be crusading with everyone else is this was in fact a nerf, but it's not it's a bug fix... one they left on waaaaaay to long, but a bug fix regardless.
As an offthought. i was introduced to double cleric after i farmed t2 allways solo -by chance in the que and when i did my first 2DC run in Spellplaque, my first thought was that this people are playing a total differend game from the one i used to play.
-Not judging, but if you enjoy t2 dungeons but are bored with them, go single DC groups that include a tank or gwf. Btw u get to train for the patch. I promisse u will be suprised how much satisfaction it gives to solo heal some bosses..and some mobfights, though not actually entertaining, are a micro test.
Who needs to run CN for gear anyway..look how much these things are on AH nowdays, and i got a hunch prices will continue to dropp.
The guy was going full heals to demonstrate his point. Capt. Obvious much?
You lost us.....you lost us - Is there more than one of you typing?
"Mod 6. Oh my f****** god. It gutted the game pure and simple. And what wasn't gutted was messed up by the poorly thought out new level cap and equip. The game never recovered from that atrocity".
..............not this one then.............
1) The devs said it and they're the ones running the game;
2) If 1) isn't enough, increases from additional ranks are always clearly stated, and duration isn't it on AS.
Plus rank increases (and indeed skill descriptions) can be incredibly vague: "in divinity it also heals your allies" (for how much? HoT or spike? Radius? If so what radius? etc).
PoD is hit and miss (and second sight just compounds that by putting even more eggs in one basket), and focussed poise? Seriously? I'm gonna spec that far up the tree to make lance of faith 5-10% better? If I wanted to pew pew around I'd've rolled...literally anything other than a cleric. I'd like to be able to keep people alive, basically.
I haven't got a feat calculator handy, but I'm willing to bet speccing up to focussed poise would leave you unable to get moon-touched, and if we're going to have to work without AS for 33% of the time, I'm going to be relying on HG for damage reduction and heals even more than I do already.