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Forums > Home› Neverwinter Discussion › General Discussion (PC)

From what I understand from these coming updates/blance are...

chuamishaelchuamishael Member Posts: 73 Arc User
edited June 2013 in General Discussion (PC)
http://nw.perfectworld.com/news/?p=907501

all I see from these updates are.. nerf , nerf , nerf, more class damage reduced and nerf nerf nerf nerf. and more skill nerf and please buy our founder's pack.. LOL not sure if this is good or bad. it sounds to me that these epic dungeon bosses are almost impossible to kill. I got mixed reaction on these updates.
Post edited by chuamishael on
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Comments

  • kiralynkiralyn Member Posts: 1,440 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Typical for an MMO forum - reasonable adjustments, small amount of nerfs, and improvements..... gets seen as "nerf, nerf, nerf, nerf"


    It's a wonder that devs even bother trying to improve their games, given how it always gets the same reaction.
  • alo1987alo1987 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    new balancements will focus aggro on the Tank, like it is supposed to be.
    So the cleric will stay alive, until he can keep the tank alive too.

    So, instances will be more easy.

    In plus, GWF will be very enhanced, and the rogue nerfed, like it is supposed to be.
    sry for bad english
  • notmuchleftnotmuchleft Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    You can please all of the people some of the time, or some of the people all of the time. You can NEVER please all of the people all of the time! :)
    Only two things in this life are infinite. The universe and human stupidity, and I'm not so sure about the former. ~ Albert Einstein
  • calaminthacalamintha Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    kiralyn wrote: »
    Typical for an MMO forum - reasonable adjustments, small amount of nerfs, and improvements..... gets seen as "nerf, nerf, nerf, nerf"


    It's a wonder that devs even bother trying to improve their games, given how it always gets the same reaction.

    It's funny that the same company refuses to touch escorts and tactical captains in their other MMO because of that.
  • theviking2006theviking2006 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 817 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    calamintha wrote: »
    It's funny that the same company refuses to touch escorts and tactical captains in their other MMO because of that.

    Which one, Champions Online or Star Trek Online? They run both of those along with Neverwinter
  • chelseacraftchelseacraft Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 8 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I can understand people being nervous. It really sucks to log in your game after putting in hundreds of hours and a bit of money only to see everyone saying they don't want your class in party now because it sucks & wipes parties after the patch. That has happened to me in a previous PWE game that was new at the time. So I can understand the irritability and criticism but hey... they have you by the short and curlies and you can't do a thing about it but either stick it out or leave. I plan on sticking it out one way or the other. From what I see control wizard got the most changes made but it doesn't sound that bad really. So I'm keeping my fingers crossed. :D
  • kiralynkiralyn Member Posts: 1,440 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    theviking2006 wrote: »
    Which one, Champions Online or Star Trek Online? They run both of those along with Neverwinter

    "escorts & tactical captains" would be Star Trek.
  • chelseacraftchelseacraft Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 8 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    theviking2006 wrote: »
    Which one, Champions Online or Star Trek Online? They run both of those along with Neverwinter

    Actually PWE has a lot of other games and Cryptic is now part of PWE. As someone who has played PWI for 2 years and Forsaken World for 2 years both from beta... there is clearly more elements that are PWE about this game than there is Cryptic. Cryptic is the creative end but PWE is really calling the shots at the end of the day. I think it's more apparent to those of us who've been playing PWE games a long time.
  • varwevarwe Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 21 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Anyone who has played MMO's knows that class balance always runs in cycle. With each major update, the class(es) that previously were the most overpowered (in relation to the others) gets nerfed, and usually the weakest class(es) get a small buff. Then everyone plays a while, and after a bit it becomes obvious there is a new "OP" class and a new weakest class, and so in the next major round of updates, the new OP class gets nerfed, etc.

    A good rule of thumb is that if you pick a class today because it is the "most powerful" class, then three months from now it will be the weakest class. And if you stick with the game long enough, maybe a year or so, it will once again be the most powerful. And so on and so on.
  • kemirkemir Member Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    In plus, GWF will be very enhanced, and the rogue nerfed, like it is supposed to be.
    sry for bad english
    and CW almost unchanged... when they are far more powerfull than TR
  • kiralynkiralyn Member Posts: 1,440 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    kemir wrote: »
    and CW almost unchanged...

    Not that you could tell, what with the various "OMG, CW ruined!1!1!!one!" threads.
  • inexistinexist Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    alo1987 wrote: »
    new balancements will focus aggro on the Tank, like it is supposed to be.
    So the cleric will stay alive, until he can keep the tank alive too.

    So, instances will be more easy.

    In plus, GWF will be very enhanced, and the rogue nerfed, like it is supposed to be.
    sry for bad english

    I really don't understand why everyone thinks the update is a "nerf" to Rogues. They reduced SE by 60%. That's it. It hits insanely hard to begin with. Power now ADDS more damage to encounter/dailies. To me that sounds like an overall "buff".
  • atompenguinatompenguin Member Posts: 93 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Nerfs are good when things are out of control. CO and STO suffered from the crying baby pants 'eeeeeh, why not just buff everyone to the same level instead of nerfing' mentality because a bunch of sensitive souls couldn't stand seeing even a 10% drop in their pet powers/abilities. It completely ruined CO and made it so easy you could play it in your sleep.

    Most of these aren't even nerfs and if you stop being pathetic for a moment you'd see that.
    -Campaign: Spells and Coin
    --Part 1: Spells and Coin (NW-DHM3XQVQK)
    --Part 2: A Blind Eye (NW-DI3QTHZGJ)
    --Part 3: Dodo's Dinner (NW-DHPA8O253)

    -One Shots
    --The Wizard of Eldeur (NW-DRKQNE4S7)
  • adfanujnadfanujn Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 33
    edited June 2013
    Um, did you not see the increase time between ticks of duelist flurry dot. It could be as much as a 20% damage nerf to rogues in pve. That being said, I haven't tested things on the test shard yet, but I doubt that the nerf is really that bad. Most rogues are annoyed with how our stuff is worded because it's difficult to tell how the bleeds stack with more than one rogue now. The SE nerf is whatever, I just won't be able to kill GFs easily in pvp anymore, not really a huge loss considering how many people complained about it
  • odinspathodinspath Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    varwe wrote: »
    Anyone who has played MMO's knows that class balance always runs in cycle. With each major update, the class(es) that previously were the most overpowered (in relation to the others) gets nerfed, and usually the weakest class(es) get a small buff. Then everyone plays a while, and after a bit it becomes obvious there is a new "OP" class and a new weakest class, and so in the next major round of updates, the new OP class gets nerfed, etc.

    A good rule of thumb is that if you pick a class today because it is the "most powerful" class, then three months from now it will be the weakest class. And if you stick with the game long enough, maybe a year or so, it will once again be the most powerful. And so on and so on.

    Lol, Its funny because its true.
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  • rangurenranguren Member Posts: 4
    edited June 2013
    varwe wrote: »
    Anyone who has played MMO's knows that class balance always runs in cycle. With each major update, the class(es) that previously were the most overpowered (in relation to the others) gets nerfed, and usually the weakest class(es) get a small buff. Then everyone plays a while, and after a bit it becomes obvious there is a new "OP" class and a new weakest class, and so in the next major round of updates, the new OP class gets nerfed, etc.

    A good rule of thumb is that if you pick a class today because it is the "most powerful" class, then three months from now it will be the weakest class. And if you stick with the game long enough, maybe a year or so, it will once again be the most powerful. And so on and so on.

    well, not all MMO does this but true, when class out of balance instead of just upgrade the underpowered class dev also nerf the other class, most of the MMO does this. I believe the reason to balancing the numbers of player that using those classes. problem is some MMOs survive, some getting up and down, others simply closed-down.
  • inexistinexist Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    adfanujn wrote: »
    Um, did you not see the increase time between ticks of duelist flurry dot. It could be as much as a 20% damage nerf to rogues in pve. That being said, I haven't tested things on the test shard yet, but I doubt that the nerf is really that bad. Most rogues are annoyed with how our stuff is worded because it's difficult to tell how the bleeds stack with more than one rogue now. The SE nerf is whatever, I just won't be able to kill GFs easily in pvp anymore, not really a huge loss considering how many people complained about it

    Even if it is a 20% damage nerf it's not a big deal. I can reach 14mil damage done at the end of a run. So cutting my overall damage by 2.8 million leaving me with 11.2 million damage will still put me at the top of my current gear level. But the buff to power would be hard to calculate since we don't know the exact numbers. But let's say it'll add maybe 500,000 at the end of the day. That's still almost 12 million. Still at the top. I'm fine with that.
  • imivoimivo Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 1,682 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    I actually don't fully understand the criticism. Looking at the class changes, they all seem reasonable to me. The changes to the CW's Enfeebling Ray, for example, is pretty massive (hardly qualifies as "unchanged"), and the Steal Time change is also a dps loss, especially as a Renegade wizard, and those two changes are enough to make the whole build less effective than a Thaumaturge build, but I understand why they are being made.

    Damage in PvP was also way too high (and probably will remain to be too high), which some of those changes aim at.

    Something I really like about Neverwinter is that you can reasonably level up one of each class, and even gear it up with the best (or at least pretty good) stuff. It is, in my view, the best way to not look at balancing changes and think "UGH, they buff everyone and nerf me!", because you'll have a better understanding of other classes and will more easily spot connections and have a more unbiased view.

    I was never able to pull this off in other MMOs because of the sheer time requirement, but here it can actually be done.
    Unsure about skills and feats? Check the Master List of Class Builds!
  • griennegrienne Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 149 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    My main is a DC, if this patch goes live as is I am personally done with the game.
  • holt3holt3 Member Posts: 333 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I am a little bummed about the Cleric nerf... I thought the class was a little underpowered to begin with.
  • omoxion1omoxion1 Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    kemir wrote: »
    and CW almost unchanged... when they are far more powerfull than TR
    no they are not
  • imivoimivo Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 1,682 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    holt3 wrote: »
    I am a little bummed about the Cleric nerf... I thought the class was a little underpowered to begin with.

    AS stacking was problematic. Not being able to keep up AS constantly is trickier, admittedly, but with the aggro changes there will be less running around and it is possible to focus a bit more on the tank. Healing Word may actually get used more often (which most clerics don't seem to even have in the bar). But whether that is sufficient to get through spike damage when AS is on cooldown, I don't know.

    Have you guys tested the changes on the preview shard?
    Unsure about skills and feats? Check the Master List of Class Builds!
  • vaelicvaelic Member Posts: 176 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    welcome to MMOs
    MY FOUNDRY QUEST

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  • bracer2bracer2 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 566 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    vaelic wrote: »
    welcome to MMOs

    The more i play this game and the more i read the forums. I become more and more convinced the actual number 1 issue with this game is that its an actionMMO. and not a D&D RPG.:)
  • lyaiselyaise Member Posts: 491 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    imivo wrote: »
    AS stacking was problematic. Not being able to keep up AS constantly is trickier, admittedly, but with the aggro changes there will be less running around and it is possible to focus a bit more on the tank. Healing Word may actually get used more often (which most clerics don't seem to even have in the bar). But whether that is sufficient to get through spike damage when AS is on cooldown, I don't know.

    Have you guys tested the changes on the preview shard?

    Several experienced Clerics have and reported their findings in the Temple section. Oh dear.
    Ok, so people don't want us to use the "nerf" word , right....

    Well these Cleric adjustments should make group play very interesting. In fact other members of the group will find themselves taking a great deal of interest in the healer changes. That is after adjusting to the ever lengthening wait for a healer in lfg.

    Yes, it will definitely be different. But if you don't want to look at these Cleric revisions as a problem - then that's ok. You will have ample time to make up your own minds in the dungeons.
    ...............vote for your favourite expansion..........
    "Mod 6. Oh my f****** god. It gutted the game pure and simple. And what wasn't gutted was messed up by the poorly thought out new level cap and equip. The game never recovered from that atrocity".
    ..............not this one then.............
  • quoiskyquoisky Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    The cleric is currently under powered yes.
    Making it worst is NOT going to make me, or many others want to pursue using it any longer. They noted that it will literally suk come pvp time for clerics. I really didn't need to hear that as it all ready SUKS to be a cleric paired up with 2+ bots every FREAKIN round !!!
    We won't get any points for healing. We won't get any points for support. What's the use? I just finished a pvp match where we were 2 players and 3 bots. I didn't get a single score/too busy healing them, because the noobs kept getting owned by enemies using exploits hitting them for 6k+ in a lev 49 pvp match!!! ? How? Don't ask me, but it's NOT normal.

    One of those names I will announce right now is Doggerz (GMs look at him) Many, many more on the list!
  • capgarnascapgarnas Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 500 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    kiralyn wrote: »
    Typical for an MMO forum - reasonable adjustments, small amount of nerfs, and improvements..... gets seen as "nerf, nerf, nerf, nerf"


    It's a wonder that devs even bother trying to improve their games, given how it always gets the same reaction.

    You obviously dont play a CW its been hit hard with major damage reductions to the most often used powers.
  • capgarnascapgarnas Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 500 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    kemir wrote: »
    and CW almost unchanged... when they are far more powerfull than TR

    Lol unchanged

    You know nothing of the class if you say that. It looks like a whole respec for the majority of CWs due 50% drops in damage for some feats now.

    50% = unchanged lol
  • capgarnascapgarnas Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 500 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2013
    odinspath wrote: »
    Lol, Its funny because its true.

    Its so true the GWF has a massive buff and gets to own in PVP now. That toon i invested in and the gear i invested in now are both useless. They needed help becuase they are a tank class that couldnt hold aggro. Now they are plate wearing dps which does not fit their role.

    Players should have known it when they rolled it but they feel it should be able to top dps meters when in the 4e rules state it should not.

    GJ devs thanks alot.
  • atompenguinatompenguin Member Posts: 93 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    GWF is primary DPS according to the site/wiki. This is also obviously not pnp DnD.

    Also I have never, ever felt that cleric is underpowered while I was playing mine up. But I also played GWF up to 60 first.
    -Campaign: Spells and Coin
    --Part 1: Spells and Coin (NW-DHM3XQVQK)
    --Part 2: A Blind Eye (NW-DI3QTHZGJ)
    --Part 3: Dodo's Dinner (NW-DHPA8O253)

    -One Shots
    --The Wizard of Eldeur (NW-DRKQNE4S7)
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