Well since having 100% uptime on AS was bascially our healing straegy, i changed my build completly, why bother going for recovery when its not going to keep the uptime up is it, as is still great, just not amazing.
The fact you seem to dont want to try and adapt just means that is ALL you probably did in dungeons anyway, drop a blue as and be like " HEY TEAM LOOK AT ME, IM SOO GOOOOD "
so basically you have no changed idea. You just want to say "oh em gee gaiz I'm good"
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daemonspadeMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
Cleric: higher cooltime on AS, AS not stacking anymore, well bye bye for me goodluck on finding a cleric on queue i quit
(after the update)
Cleric : Cleric LFP Gaunt/CN
Cleric: higher cooltime on AS, AS not stacking anymore, well bye bye for me goodluck on finding a cleric on queue i quit
(after the update)
Cleric : Cleric LFP Gaunt/CN
I will say I was happy with AS not stacking, double cleric groups were boring. I do enjoy solo healing, just wish they made the class as action healing oriented as it should be
I will say I was happy with AS not stacking, double cleric groups were boring. I do enjoy solo healing, just wish they made the class as action healing oriented as it should be
That is where I am hoping the changes lead to.
Sure, initially nerfing AS might hurt the cleric, maybe even a massive amount.
However, that will force Cryptic to turn around and buff the other abilities so that the class can perform properly.
They are currently working on fixing the GF and the GWF, so you can't pretend they will just leave the class broken.
Shield is already trash, people walk over it in PvP and it gets canceled, piece of <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> getting nerfed. Disappears when a spider walks over it too sometimes. Go ahead and nerf it to that degree there will be zero clerics.
Sure, initially nerfing AS might hurt the cleric, maybe even a massive amount.
However, that will force Cryptic to turn around and buff the other abilities so that the class can perform properly.
They are currently working on fixing the GF and the GWF, so you can't pretend they will just leave the class broken.
Some **** is ridiculous. Clerics have been discussing the issues with our other abilities for ages, we have been talking about it for awhile. How our other heals are ****, many clerics even agreed that Double AS needed to be stopped, many have been complaining about righteousness which btw since AS --> HoT, now AS heals us for less too (****ing genius right there)
There is a point where it all becomes ridiculous, I have a CW and TR alt, but if this **** sticks to the cleric, I'm done, not ragequitting, but if I can't enjoy my favorite role then there is no point. I will say I am giving them til the live release, hoping they make some hardcore adjustments
I will say I was happy with AS not stacking, double cleric groups were boring. I do enjoy solo healing, just wish they made the class as action healing oriented as it should be
I find this really goes for all of the classes. With so little character customization a second of the same class in the group makes it kinda boring. Because you're both making each other redundant on most content and even when you're not redundant, you're doing the same thing and not bringing anything unique to the table.
I find this really goes for all of the classes. With so little character customization a second of the same class in the group makes it kinda boring. Because you're both making each other redundant on most content and even when you're not redundant, you're doing the same thing and not bringing anything unique to the table.
yeah but with the dps at least they are doing dps, 2 healers is just like..lol why? Becomes instantaneously boring, with 2 CWs one can focus control the other go dps, 2 GWFs 1 focus OT the other pure deeps etc.
Some **** is ridiculous. Clerics have been discussing the issues with our other abilities for ages, we have been talking about it for awhile. How our other heals are ****, many clerics even agreed that Double AS needed to be stopped, many have been complaining about righteousness which btw since AS --> HoT, now AS heals us for less too (****ing genius right there)
There is a point where it all becomes ridiculous, I have a CW and TR alt, but if this **** sticks to the cleric, I'm done, not ragequitting, but if I can't enjoy my favorite role then there is no point. I will say I am giving them til the live release, hoping they make some hardcore adjustments
you are acting like fixing a class is a one step process.
you need to give them enough time to make all the adjustments, and that is what the test shard is for.
first they nerf the overpowered abilities, see where it leads, gather data.
from there you make adjustments to bring the class in line, gather data.
repeat.
this is basic scientific process you should have learned in school.
The cleric i ran with in T2 testing was thrilled. No more running in circles constantly tanking and drawing threat. A clerics best friend is a GF now from my testing experience. In fact the threat synergy between priest and guardian now allows for alot more overall party freedom. Anyway, dude was borderline extatic that he could just hang back and cast and heal with very little concern.
The cleric i ran with in T2 testing was thrilled. No more running in circles constantly tanking and drawing threat. A clerics best friend is a GF now from my testing experience. In fact the threat synergy between priest and guardian now allows for alot more overall party freedom. Anyway, dude was borderline extatic that he could just hang back and cast and heal with very little concern.
It's official, zero clerics playing this game after patch.
Astral Shield, Cleanse, Divine Armor, Etheral boon all got nerfed? ROFL.
To all those who don't know what these four do I'll start from left to right.
- Heals/Buffs 20% Dmg Resist
- Takes off enemy debuffs / death debuff
- Only daily that heals, and the heal was already trash.
- Gives more divinity, already very hard to gain it.
Enjoy no shield and when the shield is up its probably going to be yellow because of the lack of divinity, which means it will not heal you at all. Either that or, the shield will be healing and no other skills will be as much.
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rapticorMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,078Arc User
edited June 2013
DC here.. Not happy with what I've tested on the preview shard. Stacking fix was fine. Changing the cooldown not fine. Not quitting or anything but I'll more than likely go play another class. Hope for the game's sake a lot of others don't feel the same or people will be queuing waiting for a DC for a long time.
To try and put it another way, for the DC critically impaired (i.e. noone who has EVER played the class).
What are we known for? Astral Shield. Why? Because its that Blue circle on the ground...(response from DC critically impaired) omgerd, herp derp...that's all the clerics know how to do, herp derp lern2play....
So...clerics are often identified by their ability to 'heal' because the heal effect itself a) EXTREMELY visible. 2) REALLY F***ING GOOD 3) and has a defense buff tied into it.
What other heals do clerics have?
Sunburst. Did you know that heals? Shocking, but it not only deals damage to surrounding mobs, BUT IT HEALS ANY ALLY IN ITS BLAST RAIDUS. Oh wait..you didn't notice that heal huh? Would that be because it 1) doesn't HEAL AN ENORMOUS AMMOUNT or 2) DOESN"T HAVE A HERP DERP BLUE RETICLE??
Forgemasters flame. Yeah, it heals. In Divinity mode, but so did Astral Shield. You probably didn't notice this bcause 1) IT DOESN"T HAVE A HERP DERP RETICLE or b) does a pitiful amount and you have to be ON THE MOB IT WAS CAST ON
Healing Word. Yeah, about the time that clerics discover Astral Shield is about the time they ditch this ability. What is so wrong with it? Well first off, its single target, so it doesn't have a HERP DERP RETICLE. Also, IT'S SINGLE TARGET. Yeah, try to pick the GF out of a pack that has a GWF, a GF and TR all butt stacking on one another. I sometimes think you men get a little *too* firendly in some encounters. But you also didn't notice when we used this because IT ISN"T ALL THAT GREAT EITHER.
Bastion of Health. This is also another AoE heal, closely, but not entirely related to Astral Shield. But again, I bet you didn't notice this skill because it doesn't have a HERP DEPR RETICLE and the fact that the heal ISN'T ALL THAT GOOD.
Point is, the reason that Astral Shield is being nerfed so hard, besides teh stacking issue, is that YOU CAN SEE IT AND CLEARLY establish is as 'the reason the cleric is almighty'. When in fact the reason the skill was such a crutch wasn't because healers were bad, IT WAS BECAUSE EVERYONE ELSE WAS! Clerics, even with AS, still had to dodge because adds still hit them like mack trucks. It was you TR's and GWF's that ignored the RED WARNING signs and staying in the danger zone, that *we* are to blame for your lack of skill and bad behavior. We made due with what we had, and for ONCE, just ONCE we have a visibly working ability that helped US more than it helped YOU in dungeons.
Now, as clerics will CLEARLY have to adjust, you skillless AS relying double stacked AS dungeon goers are going to be the ones that suffer, not the clerics.
And all the while, the PvPer's and are busy celebrating and mas*****ting one another.
The cleric i ran with in T2 testing was thrilled. No more running in circles constantly tanking and drawing threat. A clerics best friend is a GF now from my testing experience. In fact the threat synergy between priest and guardian now allows for alot more overall party freedom. Anyway, dude was borderline extatic that he could just hang back and cast and heal with very little concern.
It's official, zero clerics playing this game after patch.
I don't think you understand.
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
If you haven't played a solo DC 10k+ GS at 60 for epic T2's in a well oiled group, then your comments are moot. Nerfing the AS will cause groups to rely MORE on 2 x DC, than not, as even with a great group made up of (1) TR, (1) GF, (1) DC, (2) CW, we were wiped all the time, and not for lack of constantly moving, or working as a group. Try throwing single heals constantly, (which isn't easy targeting in mobs - hint - Aim above the heads of the agro and your party member you want to heal, and you won't hit your pet) while trying to generate divine power with sunbursts, kiting agro, and trying not to die the whole time, till the CW's grab it, or the tank engages it. It was always fluid, and never static in one place. I dare say what they've done will not make it more fun, but less; and cause more frustration with a class that already gets a bad rap as a sucky healer if there's a wipe. There are limits to what you can do without a boost to other heal spells, (which should have been considered, as no DC wants to be a 1 spell healing bot) regardless of strategy, and one mistake usually ends up in a wipe even with a good group. (like with Spider Queen if the CW's not timing their crowd control right) Personally, I felt the game a blast up to lvl 60, and then it was all about heal pots, heal stones, and life scrolls, and how many they made you buy for surviving an epic T1/T2 dungeon like NC till it got ridiculous on what stuff would cost to fuse this, or coalesce that. Most just broke down and BOUGHT their T2 armor and runestones prior, as it was too difficult to earn it with low GS stuff the right way. I think this will make that path even harder if not impossible without 2 x DC. They just made it cost more in either Zen or AD, as the healer will now have a 5-6 second gap between AS, where the damage modifiers and debuffs will obliterate the tanks without pots or stones, regardless of whether they can now hold agro. They may wish they hadn't asked for that on the forums so much after the patch.
I mean, seriously, any of you healers out there have a single heal spell I could scribble in my spellbook for 12k+ that's not a HoT, and that doesn't cost Zen or AD and have a 50 minute cooldown? I'm all ears, and have yet to find it, but would have preferred that over an AS any day when I was actively playing.
The cleric i ran with in T2 testing was thrilled. No more running in circles constantly tanking and drawing threat. A clerics best friend is a GF now from my testing experience. In fact the threat synergy between priest and guardian now allows for alot more overall party freedom. Anyway, dude was borderline extatic that he could just hang back and cast and heal with very little concern.
Good to hear. I have a bit of a dusty Guardian and a dusty Cleric. Both of which were waiting for some threat fixes before I decided between them.
there is no previous data to how a cleric will perform after the reduction to AS.
you are trying to say previous data is valid after a major variable change when it is not.
Except there have been so many theorycrafting threads in the cleric forums showing how the other abilities work, synergize, etc. So many threads with suggests etc.
They are not working from a pure vacuum without previous input.
Except there have been so many theorycrafting threads in the cleric forums showing how the other abilities work, synergize, etc. So many threads with suggests etc.
They are not working from a pure vacuum without previous input.
as you said, you are not working in a vacuum.
you have to look at the whole.
when you make a major variable change in any scientific process you have to start from scratch with all new data.
minor changes do not require all new data most the time, but something major does because it affects the whole.
this change affects the whole of how the class performs. now they can gather data as to how the class performs in an overall scale, then deduce from that exactly what needs to be improved.
if you start out making major changes all over the place you will just end up with a bigger mess than you had to begin with.
Good to hear. I have a bit of a dusty Guardian and a dusty Cleric. Both of which were waiting for some threat fixes before I decided between them.
Yah. I hope everyone can get to the practice shard and do some testing prior to making any emotional decisions. As a party the classes and the overall group was/is more balanced. Balance patch... balanced group. I have to give Cryp a nod as it "seems" to be working. Will continue testing throughout the next two weeks, different dungeons, different group makeup. But. So far so good.
when you make a major variable change in any scientific process you have to start from scratch with all new data.
minor changes do not require all new data most the time, but something major does because it affects the whole.
this change affects the whole of how the class performs. now they can gather data as to how the class performs in an overall scale, then deduce from that exactly what needs to be improved.
if you start out making major changes all over the place you will just end up with a bigger mess than you had to begin with.
If you decide to do an all around HPS output reduction on the most significant healing spell such that EVERY SINGLE CLERIC no matter the build has to have it, and don't have a compensatory buff in the other lolhealing spells. then you as a dev would be a moron.
If you decide to do an all around HPS output reduction on the most significant healing spell such that EVERY SINGLE CLERIC no matter the build has to have it, and don't have a compensatory buff in the other lolhealing spells. then you as a dev would be a moron.
your last line really shows your intelligence there buddy.
anyhow, in a scientific process you would gather data before you made an improvement so you could see exactly where and to what magnitude to place said improvements.
if you just randomly improve things you would most likely just be creating more problems for yourself and you are basically gambling instead of being scientific.
your last line really shows your intelligence there buddy.
anyhow, in a scientific process you would gather data before you made an improvement so you could see exactly where and to what magnitude to place said improvements.
if you just randomly improve things you would most likely just be creating more problems for yourself and you are basically gambling instead of being scientific.
The fact that you are trying to use a high school version of the scientific method in such a complex situation demonstrates your limitations.
In the real world timmy, the scientific method can be used to evaluate multiple variables simultaneously!
Except there have been so many theorycrafting threads in the cleric forums showing how the other abilities work, synergize, etc. So many threads with suggests etc.
They are not working from a pure vacuum without previous input.
No, not really. I live in the cleric forums and there has been next to zero meaningful suggestions for how to replace AS's utility. Pretty much every suggestion is trash, and that's because pretty much every power we have is trash except for AS.
Comments
so basically you have no changed idea. You just want to say "oh em gee gaiz I'm good"
(after the update)
Cleric : Cleric LFP Gaunt/CN
I will say I was happy with AS not stacking, double cleric groups were boring. I do enjoy solo healing, just wish they made the class as action healing oriented as it should be
That is where I am hoping the changes lead to.
Sure, initially nerfing AS might hurt the cleric, maybe even a massive amount.
However, that will force Cryptic to turn around and buff the other abilities so that the class can perform properly.
They are currently working on fixing the GF and the GWF, so you can't pretend they will just leave the class broken.
Some **** is ridiculous. Clerics have been discussing the issues with our other abilities for ages, we have been talking about it for awhile. How our other heals are ****, many clerics even agreed that Double AS needed to be stopped, many have been complaining about righteousness which btw since AS --> HoT, now AS heals us for less too (****ing genius right there)
There is a point where it all becomes ridiculous, I have a CW and TR alt, but if this **** sticks to the cleric, I'm done, not ragequitting, but if I can't enjoy my favorite role then there is no point. I will say I am giving them til the live release, hoping they make some hardcore adjustments
I find this really goes for all of the classes. With so little character customization a second of the same class in the group makes it kinda boring. Because you're both making each other redundant on most content and even when you're not redundant, you're doing the same thing and not bringing anything unique to the table.
DC is still required for any useful content barring KC set exploits and the like.
yeah but with the dps at least they are doing dps, 2 healers is just like..lol why? Becomes instantaneously boring, with 2 CWs one can focus control the other go dps, 2 GWFs 1 focus OT the other pure deeps etc.
you are acting like fixing a class is a one step process.
you need to give them enough time to make all the adjustments, and that is what the test shard is for.
first they nerf the overpowered abilities, see where it leads, gather data.
from there you make adjustments to bring the class in line, gather data.
repeat.
this is basic scientific process you should have learned in school.
Astral Shield, Cleanse, Divine Armor, Etheral boon all got nerfed? ROFL.
To all those who don't know what these four do I'll start from left to right.
- Heals/Buffs 20% Dmg Resist
- Takes off enemy debuffs / death debuff
- Only daily that heals, and the heal was already trash.
- Gives more divinity, already very hard to gain it.
Enjoy no shield and when the shield is up its probably going to be yellow because of the lack of divinity, which means it will not heal you at all. Either that or, the shield will be healing and no other skills will be as much.
What are we known for? Astral Shield. Why? Because its that Blue circle on the ground...(response from DC critically impaired) omgerd, herp derp...that's all the clerics know how to do, herp derp lern2play....
So...clerics are often identified by their ability to 'heal' because the heal effect itself a) EXTREMELY visible. 2) REALLY F***ING GOOD 3) and has a defense buff tied into it.
What other heals do clerics have?
Sunburst. Did you know that heals? Shocking, but it not only deals damage to surrounding mobs, BUT IT HEALS ANY ALLY IN ITS BLAST RAIDUS. Oh wait..you didn't notice that heal huh? Would that be because it 1) doesn't HEAL AN ENORMOUS AMMOUNT or 2) DOESN"T HAVE A HERP DERP BLUE RETICLE??
Forgemasters flame. Yeah, it heals. In Divinity mode, but so did Astral Shield. You probably didn't notice this bcause 1) IT DOESN"T HAVE A HERP DERP RETICLE or b) does a pitiful amount and you have to be ON THE MOB IT WAS CAST ON
Healing Word. Yeah, about the time that clerics discover Astral Shield is about the time they ditch this ability. What is so wrong with it? Well first off, its single target, so it doesn't have a HERP DERP RETICLE. Also, IT'S SINGLE TARGET. Yeah, try to pick the GF out of a pack that has a GWF, a GF and TR all butt stacking on one another. I sometimes think you men get a little *too* firendly in some encounters. But you also didn't notice when we used this because IT ISN"T ALL THAT GREAT EITHER.
Bastion of Health. This is also another AoE heal, closely, but not entirely related to Astral Shield. But again, I bet you didn't notice this skill because it doesn't have a HERP DEPR RETICLE and the fact that the heal ISN'T ALL THAT GOOD.
Point is, the reason that Astral Shield is being nerfed so hard, besides teh stacking issue, is that YOU CAN SEE IT AND CLEARLY establish is as 'the reason the cleric is almighty'. When in fact the reason the skill was such a crutch wasn't because healers were bad, IT WAS BECAUSE EVERYONE ELSE WAS! Clerics, even with AS, still had to dodge because adds still hit them like mack trucks. It was you TR's and GWF's that ignored the RED WARNING signs and staying in the danger zone, that *we* are to blame for your lack of skill and bad behavior. We made due with what we had, and for ONCE, just ONCE we have a visibly working ability that helped US more than it helped YOU in dungeons.
Now, as clerics will CLEARLY have to adjust, you skillless AS relying double stacked AS dungeon goers are going to be the ones that suffer, not the clerics.
And all the while, the PvPer's and are busy celebrating and mas*****ting one another.
And get to:
I don't think you understand.
I mean, seriously, any of you healers out there have a single heal spell I could scribble in my spellbook for 12k+ that's not a HoT, and that doesn't cost Zen or AD and have a 50 minute cooldown? I'm all ears, and have yet to find it, but would have preferred that over an AS any day when I was actively playing.
:-)
Good to hear. I have a bit of a dusty Guardian and a dusty Cleric. Both of which were waiting for some threat fixes before I decided between them.
starting from the ground up assumes no previous data.
clearly thats not the case. think more critically. thanks.
there is no previous data to how a cleric will perform after the reduction to AS.
you are trying to say previous data is valid after a major variable change when it is not.
Except there have been so many theorycrafting threads in the cleric forums showing how the other abilities work, synergize, etc. So many threads with suggests etc.
They are not working from a pure vacuum without previous input.
as you said, you are not working in a vacuum.
you have to look at the whole.
when you make a major variable change in any scientific process you have to start from scratch with all new data.
minor changes do not require all new data most the time, but something major does because it affects the whole.
this change affects the whole of how the class performs. now they can gather data as to how the class performs in an overall scale, then deduce from that exactly what needs to be improved.
if you start out making major changes all over the place you will just end up with a bigger mess than you had to begin with.
Yah. I hope everyone can get to the practice shard and do some testing prior to making any emotional decisions. As a party the classes and the overall group was/is more balanced. Balance patch... balanced group. I have to give Cryp a nod as it "seems" to be working. Will continue testing throughout the next two weeks, different dungeons, different group makeup. But. So far so good.
If you decide to do an all around HPS output reduction on the most significant healing spell such that EVERY SINGLE CLERIC no matter the build has to have it, and don't have a compensatory buff in the other lolhealing spells. then you as a dev would be a moron.
your last line really shows your intelligence there buddy.
anyhow, in a scientific process you would gather data before you made an improvement so you could see exactly where and to what magnitude to place said improvements.
if you just randomly improve things you would most likely just be creating more problems for yourself and you are basically gambling instead of being scientific.
Much bad will come of this change.
The fact that you are trying to use a high school version of the scientific method in such a complex situation demonstrates your limitations.
In the real world timmy, the scientific method can be used to evaluate multiple variables simultaneously!
my hope is that this change will not be permanent and will be adjusted before live.
i am an electrical engineer, lol.
since your post is nothing more than a poor attempt at insulting me, i dont really have much else to reply to.