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High dexterity for GF
wankw
Member Posts: 34 Arc User
Hello. I'm a new player.
I think most players build their GF having high con/str.
If I build my GF focusing on high con/dex, if this a bad idea?
I have just started a halfling GF with 12str 18con 18dex.
I'm trying to have a defensive/avoidance type GF, with less overall dps.
Will I ruin this character in the end?
Sorry for my bad english.
Thanks for reading.
Arvoreen.
Dragon server
I think most players build their GF having high con/str.
If I build my GF focusing on high con/dex, if this a bad idea?
I have just started a halfling GF with 12str 18con 18dex.
I'm trying to have a defensive/avoidance type GF, with less overall dps.
Will I ruin this character in the end?
Sorry for my bad english.
Thanks for reading.
Arvoreen.
Dragon server
Post edited by wankw on
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Comments
I don't get feats like str focus unless the wording is misleading.
it improves the bonus you get from str by 15%.
at 20 str your bonuses are 10%
15% of 10% is 1.5% .... that is pitiful for 3 points.
i would really like to know if i am looking at it wrong, because i always avoid the feats that say improves effectiveness by 15%. the base bonus % is not big enough to make that noticeable.
15% of 14 is 2.1% and 2.1% of 601 is 12.6 which is not the difference in the low end. However 4.2% is extremely close to the difference. Now I would need testing done by a character with a low strength for comparison, but I'm leaning toward the idea that it may well increase the damage bonus from the strength modifier by 10/20/30%.
The other idea I had is it may be simply increasing total strength by 15% which if you round up 3.6 becomes 4 or 4% more damage.
Also... pure tank builds doing low damage in PvP are a nightmare for holding points and disrupting the enemy, have had lots of fun there
Selina - Trickster Rogue Level 20 - Under Construction
I need more raw data to determine exactly how the feat is affected by low strength values.
So if you get 15% bonus dmg from 25str it really means 15% more dmg on every skill/ability
With that being said, now that the guardian will be able to hold threat, and who knows what content will be released later on, a very defensive guardian might become a very good option.
Combat arena. Adjustable challenge.
Difficulty: Adjustable easy - very hard
Duration: Adjustable 1 - 25min
i don't feel so bad for skipping them at least.
even at a 4.2% increase at a high str that is not a huge difference at all.
i mean 1000 goes to 1042. sure over time it will probably add up to something, but on the other hand the alternative is increased AP gain which adds up to some amount of increased damage as well, though it is much harder to quantify.
i doubt in the end that it really makes much of a difference if you take that feat or the alternative.
it certainly is not even on the same planet as game-breaking.
I'm currently a lvl60 GF shooting for the damage-heavy build, and even I have 44% damage resistance and 22% deflect chance. Beyond that there are diminishing returns - pure-tank characters usually don't have more than 50% DR, and for those few percentage points they sacrifice a damage bonus of +300% or more! Plus, a high-Dexterity GF doesn't benefit from a Strength-GF's higher Guard meter.
Things might change with the upcoming patch, when GFs might begin to hold aggro consistently, but a damage-GF can just swat away all those mobs instead of holding them off. Plus, the Cleric's Astral Shield power allows anyone to tank, so I'm not sure how necessary a dedicated defense-GF even is.
you are not really looking at damage reduction properly. each additional percent means more than the last percent.
say base damage is 10,000.
you take 5600 damage
the tank spec takes 5000
5000 is actually 89.29% of 5600, so he is taking 10.7% less damage than you.
then you have to factor in clerics low output healing and inability to spike heal you.
also astral shield is slated for a big nerf.
In other words, tankier GF builds may get more important. But as people have already noted... Strength for your guard meter is probably a good idea, yeah?
*not a GF player, mostly just relaying info about cleric stuff that pertains to tanking*
IMHO it is more than viable. We can argue from 1 to 60 if STR or DEX is better but it only really matters at 60+ when you'll do instance.
STR:
Damage bonus +1%
DoT resist +1%
Guard meter +1%
vs
DEX:
Resistance ignored +1%
AoE resist +1%
Deflection +0.5%
Damage wise, it's about the same. Of course considering you hit mobs with resistance, like the ones in epic dungeons.
If they have no resist or very low resist, like low-level minion while you quest STR is better. But:
Considering you hit for 300 dmg on a 12% resist mob.
If you have 20 STR and you hit for 300 (+10%) you hit for around 330 minus 12%, you hit for 290 dmg.
If you have 20 DEX and you hit for 300 considering mobs has 12% (-10%) resist you hit for 294 dmg.
Considering you hit for 800 dmg (early 60 average at-will damage) on a 22% resist mob (average resistance for T2 monsters according to some theorycraft)
If you have 20 STR and you hit for 800 (+10%) you hit for around 880 dmg minus 22%, you hit him for 686 dmg.
If you have 20 DEX and you hit for 800 considering mobs has 22% (-10%) resist you hit for 704 dmg.
People tends to ignore the 1% armor pen and goes for straight damage, while % armor pen clearly give you more damage than % damage assuming armor pen is "needed" (mobs have defence). Armor pen also get better the harder you hit.
I'd say it's still about even damage wise, DEX might be better when you will be well geared vs harder monster. But of course STR will be clearly better at early stage. And of course, it depends on how easy it is to be armor pen capped, and at the moment it's not that hard, but it's clearly not the first stats you might focus on, and you will need enchant that you could use on other type of enchant like power or recovery for example.
AoE vs DoT, i can't really answer here by facts, i feel there's more AoE than DoT overall, and i don't feel any is deadlier than the other. I don't think it really matters.
Guard vs Deflect, i'm not pro in math, and i think we don't even have a clear formula about Deflect and guard value, and there is change on the PTR regarding Guard as we speak. Very quickly, id say, if you look to be protector and want to play a turtle style, STR might be better. If you look to be more dps or less reliant on block like the tactician build, i guess you will find DEX more valuable for survival.
So for Tanking, there's not a clear advantage for either STR or DEX, we can't really know at the moment if deflection or guard is better, since none has really been needed or tested accurately lately.
Like someone mentioned, there's a feat that increases STR effectiveness, that's really the only argument i can give that put strength slightly better than DEX at the end, for an extra 0% to 4% extra dmg/guard/DoT resist according to some people and test.
So that's the difference between STR and DEX. Choose your favorite stats and work around it to make it valuable for you or take the one that matches your playstyle.
Worst GF NA
Thats a good feedback, it makes sense to me.
Human 24 Str 22 Con 14 Dex
14% Damage
14% Guard
14% DOT Resistance
12% Action Point gain
24% HP
4% Resistance ignored
4% AOE Damage Resistance
2% Deflection
3% Defence
3 Feats
Dwarf 24 Str 24 Con 14 Dex
14% Damage
14% Guard
14% DOT Resistance
14% Action Point gain
28% HP
4% Resistance ignored
4% AOE Damage Resistance
2% Deflection
DOT Resistance
Knockdown Resistance
Halfling 14 Str 24 Con 24 Dex
4% Damage
4% Guard
4% DOT Resistance
12% Action Point gain
28% HP
14% Resistance ignored
14% AOE Damage Resistance
7% Deflection
10% CC Resistance (Duration, not ignore)
3% Deflection
Yeah, I'm new to GF so I'm babbling. Anyway, Dex?
I think anything more than 17 DEX @ 60 and you start specialising into specific roles like pure avoidance tanking or pvp (since ArP and Damage Resistance debuffs have no impact on Deflection).
Also, 17 DEX is the point at which you can cheaply gear any build with ArP from any gear without having to resort to class-specific ArP armor pieces (left side of your character sheet) or the super expensive rank 7+ ArP Dark enchants in the endgame.
So, in general STR/CON builds are still best, imo, even with recent additive ArP base stat changes.
Thanks for the response and the logical reasoning.
Are odd number dex's a waste?
IIRC when I had both dex 16 and 17 it showed +3% deflection.
If it was display rounding then and 17 really had +3.5%, it should've shown +4% on the screen.
This leads me to think it is probable that 17 really only gets +3% deflection, so no extra deflection over 16.
It's not odd in d&d systems to only get some bonuses every other stat point.
Does anyone have any real info not just hunches on whether odd number dexs give the extra .5% deflection?
(i.e. Does 17 dex give +3% or +3.5%?)
Every 1 dex above 10 gives .5% deflection.
My first reaction was the -% resistance from dex canceled out enemy arpen, as well.
My question is: do mobs even have arpen? If not dex may only be useful in a pvp situation.
Then again, does the-% resistance from dex even work that way? Most people seem to think it reduces your target's armor.
Be careful with this thread and quoting earlier posts from it. It is really a month-old necro.
How DEX works has changed/been fixed since the thread started. This is the more current thread if you want details: http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?358391-Con-(GWF)-and-Dex-(GF)-are-now-addative-to-Armor-Penetration