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PVP: How to make your life less miserable as a Devoted Cleric
gtxinsane
Member Posts: 116 Bounty Hunter
So i'm relatively new, but i've logged in a couple (or hundreds) of hours onto my cleric, a good chunk of it in PvP (Managed to gear 2 of my toons with full PvP gear, 42k glory currently split on 2 toons [GWF/DC]). I'm not claiming to be the best, or have the best build, or have the best maths. But here's a few tips to clerics out there who find it hard and frustrating to PvP.
DISCLAIMER: This write-up is meant for end-game PvP (lvl 50-60). The base concepts can be applied to lower level PvP but you must adjust as you see fit.
DIVINITY MANAGEMENT
The big elephant in the room, mastering it means mastering your class, and if you can master divinity management in PvP, there's no reason for you to not to be able to manage it in PvE.
Divinity Management in PvP isn't that hard, and doesn't differ much from PvE. The problem with some Devoted Clerics I see is that they often times use their precious divinity pips on useless encounters. In PvP, there is only absolutely 1 spell you need to be in Divine Mode (99% of the time at least), and that is, wait for it, of course, Astral Shield. It helps you keep a point, it helps you siege a point, it tops your party up in down times, etc etc.
Only spend divinity on other encounters if and when you see it fit, you don't need to always be casting Divine Sunburst, or Divine Forgemaster's Flame. The problem with casting Divine Sunburst is that all classes, bar the GF (then again they have Lunging Strike) can easily get back to you (or your point) after you pop it off. 1 Divinity Pip lost for 2k damage, and a second or two of free time. The effect of Forgemaster's Flame can easily be mitigated by pulling out of combat for 5 seconds and going in again.
Using the right At-Wills and Feating correctly also help with this issue, as these manage your divinity for you. Brand of the Sun is the best At-Will for PvP since it's simply fire and forget and watch your divinity bar passively go up. Your second at-will should either be Sacred Fire OR Lance of Faith (discussed more below). The feats i'm talking about is Righteous Rage of Tempus and Ethereal Boon. Most of these feats and skills carry over seamlessly to PvE builds as well.
SKILLS AND FEATS
For people who are just looking for encounter setups here are a couple:
Skills and Feats - Hybrid
At-Will: Brand of the Sun, Lance of Faith/Sacred Flame/Astral Seal
Encounters: Astral Shield
Rotation: BotS -> PoD -> D. BtS -> FFlame
Dailies: Divine Armor, Hammer of Fate
Personal: Foresight, Holy Fervor
Skills and Feats - Pure DoT Glass
At-Will: Brand of the Sun, Lance of Faith/Sacred Flame
Encounters: Break the Spirit, Forgemaster's Flame, Prophecy of Doom
Rotation: BotS -> PoD -> D. BtS -> FFlame
Dailies: Divine Armor, Hammer of Fate
Personal: Foresight, Terrifying Insight
Skills and Feats - Standard Support (Linked Spirit
At-Will: Sacred Flame, Astral Seal
Encounters: Astral Shield, Sunburst, Chains of Blazing Light/Healing Word/Forgemaster's Flame
Dailies: Divine Armor, Hallowed Ground
Personal: Foresight, Healer's Lore
Skill Builds for PvP don't stray too far from PvE skill builds. Some skills will just have more points than others, and others will have no points at all (I don't have points in Bastion of Health but i do have Chains of Blazing Light maxed out etc.).
Your dailies should usually be Hallowed Ground OR Divine Armor + 1 (basically as long as it isn't Guardian of Faith). Personal Powers is usually Foresight + 1 as well (i personally use Terrifying Insight or Holy Fervor as the + 1)
Pre-.6 patch, Astral Shield was the catch-all skill for any cleric, whether offensive or defensive, but with the fix to Astral Shield, and the improvement and changes to other classes, it's not anymore. It's still the best skill for capping a point, and it gives your team the advantage for 10 seconds as opposed to teams that don't have it. Skills you should get should always depend on the situation, here are a few questions to ask yourself when slotting skills:
What is my party composed of?
It all starts with this, check what your party mates are, and put powers into your bar accordingly. Do you have a surplus of Control Wizards? Daunting Light and Divine Glow could probably go well since they have long duration control spells. Do you have 4 melee team mates? Forgemaster's Flame as well as Chains of Blazing light could be an option. Different party compositions call for different skill compositions as well. Adjust accordingly.
What is the opposing party is composed of?
A lot of players don't actually know who they're facing against until they meet up at point '2', while the information is already there to begin with! Players who are going to try to PvP should make it a habit to check what the opposing team is composed of, as you can easily prepare in advance what skills you would use. Do they have a lot of melee? Forgemaster's Flame and Chains of Blazing Light work great. Too much control wizards? Healing Word. Lots of squishies? Daunting Light. 5 Cleric Party? Sunburst. The possibilities are limitless.
Where am I playing?
As of writing, there are only 2 maps available for PvP, Hotenow Domination and Rivenscar Ruins. Hotenow Domination has a lot of choke points and has different terrain levels. Chains of Blazing Light and Sunburst is great for this as the former allows you to lockdown chokepoints, and the other allows you to throw people off edges.
Rivenscar Ruins on the other hand is a much larger map with more open areas. It has pillars where players can easily break Line of Sight, and while there are ledges to throw people off from, most of the combat happens on the same level. Skills that are great here are Damage over Time skills (Brand of the Sun, Forgemaster's Flame, Break the Spirit), as it is very easy to disengage and gain distance in this map, and DotS allow you to continously damage them even if they manage to break line of sight or get out of range.
ENCOUNTER/PERSONAL/DAILY POWER ANALYSIS, PERSONAL THOUGHTS
AT-WILLS
Lance of Faith - High DPS at-will, click a button, deal damage, every 3rd hit deals more damage. Very basic. Can be feated, but the feat (Focused Poise) isn't really worth it even after the changes. Personally it's my second at-will, I'm pretty sure the first 2 hits of Lance of Faith have a faster animation than Sacred Flame. If somebody can tell me otherwise, please do. (I only measure it by feeling and eye)
Astral Seal - I'm torn on this. It's a great skill for sustain in PvE, in PvP though you'll only really notice its effect in more drawn out fights. The DPS is lowest among the at-wills, and only becomes better when feated (Power of Oppression). It's an ok skill, but you can leave it out of your bar for PvP without losing too much.
Sacred Flame - The DPS isn't far off from Lance of Faith (i've seen somewhere the damage is of LoF is 2% higher), and should be on your list of a possible second at-will. It's also pretty good for supporting others via the third-hit THP bonus. Just be cautious in being lulled into auto-attacking with it, as being stationary for too long can mean death under any circumstance.
Brand of the Sun - Will be your go-to at-will, it's a divinity generator alongside ok-ish damage. The great thing is you basically apply it to as much people as you can, try to get a crit off (you can re-apply till you get a crit, you can however break the crit-dot if you re-apply it too early, takes a bit of practice in PvP)
ENCOUNTERS
Sunburst - Sunburst is good, and it is bad at the same time. It's great in PvE for AP generation, not so much in PvP since you're not guaranteed to hit 5 (let alone 4 or 3). The damage and heal is subpar, and to make the best use of it, you need to use a divinity pip. It's great in certain circumstances (defending base points in hotenow domination), but most of the time, you just bought yourself a second or 2, and while this might be sometimes game breaking, often times it is not.
Healing Word - The Good: Great against Control Wizards since before they can spike you, they have to proc pray to the RNG gods first, meaning you can mitigate a good chunk of damage. The Bad: Spike damage is king in PvP as i've pointed out repeatedly already. It's never worth a divinity pip. It should be great supporting in longer fights. You have to constantly spam this to generate divinity, which can be a good thing and a bad thing
Searing Light - No place on your bar in PvP. The cooldown is pretty low, the damage isn't very bad either, but it has no other effect to make use off.
Chains of Blazing Light - I cannot express how good this encounter is for PvP. So good in fact that I have 3 points in it.(Gasp!). It gives you breathing space against the melee classes (especially the pesky rogues), locks down CWs if you manage to get them into it, strangle points, force people to take different routes. If you are a more PvP oriented player you will want to have 3 points in this. 15 seconds might sound overkill, and people can definitely see this as a big red circle on the ground, but this eventually allows you to manipulate points as you want, which is a GODSEND in PvP.
Daunting Light - Our only high spike damage skill. It's good for what it does, but it takes practice to land correctly (i still miss often on static targets). The great thing about this encounter is that very few people see it coming. And it usually results in "WTF happened?" moments. I've killed plenty of people standing still on points (you can cast this from the safe safe range of 80'). The divine mode gives you that surprise burst as well as the effect is now instant.
Forgemaster's Flame - Clerics often forget the part where this actually slows the target for a good amount (30%), so you don't always need to have to cast it in divine mode. It's useful for kiting, gaining divinity, and as a heal if you really need it. Another thing to keep in mind is the damage from FF is dealt faster over a shorter amount of time (5 parts in 5 seconds) compared to Break the Spirit (5 parts over 7.5 seconds).
Prophecy of Doom - Grants a defense debuff, which is nice, but the real benefit of this is the massive AP you gain if the target dies with the debuff on him. Unfortunately, taking out the target quickly depends mostly on your team mates and your timing. You also gain the AP if Prophecy of Doom kills the target.
Bastion of Health - High Cooldown heal with cast delay. Has little place in PvP. It might save your team once in a while, but then if you don't, you're down an encounter for 18-22 seconds. Just not efficient enough.
Break the Spirit - Short cooldown DoT that grants one of the best debuffs in PvP: Weakness. 30% (max rank) damage redux is great specially against TRs and CWs. The divine mode currently sucks (slows for the value of non-divine FFlame and a stun that's basically negligible), and the DoT happens much slower than other DoTs (one per 1.5 seconds for 5 ticks, 7.5 seconds total). Doesn't mean that you should overlook this skill though, the debuff it grants is enough for it to have a place in most encounter bars.
Divine Glow - It's a pretty easy to land (the animation is pretty quick, ok AoE [10']) AoE spell that does ok damage, still doesn't remove the fact that it's a skill shot though. The main reason why this doesn't make most cleric encounter bars is that it is bugged in it's current form (reduces the damage of your team when in divine mode, the rule of 5s combines both enemies and allies, etc). Assuming it gets fixed in the next patch, a 7.5% damage resist debuff will be great against other DCs, GFs, and GWFs.
Astral Shield - As I write this statement it's been a good week or so with the Astral Shield fixes. It's still pretty good for PvP but not the end-all for Devoted Clerics like back then. It's still your best heal/damage mitigation. It's not a must slot now though.
PERSONAL POWERS
Healer's Lore: Slot this if you're a healer spec, or you have this feated (via Mark of Mending and Disciple of Divine lore) otherwise, steer clear.
Divine Fortune: Again, another healer spec power This solves the "i have no more Divinity" problem for most healer DCs in PvP as well, just spam healing word and watch that divinity go!
Soothe: Uh, No.
Holy Fervor: A power that can be used on any build. Additional AP generation isn't bad at all, however, this competes with your 2nd personal power. It's not a must have though.
Foresight: 6% damage mitigation unfeated, 11% when. It's always active on you (the icon isn't present though), and only affects other people when you heal them. Great whether you're a offensive or defensive DC. This usually never leaves your personal power column, barring very few, and very specific instances.
Terrifying Insight: Good to have for offensive clerics, the cap is easily achievable since most of your skills are dots, however, this doesn't do anything for you in PvE (unless you're the second cleric), and getting this means sacrificing 3 points on other probably more useful things (Bastion of Health?).
Prophetic Action: Can be good, can be bad, depending on how you look at it. It can block a potentially lethal Lashing Blade or Ice Knife, but then again it can also block a Brand of the Sun tick or Magic Missile. Most of the time though, it's the latter.
DAILIES
Guardian of Faith - Bad. It's a dodgeable prone with bad damage, a long cast animation, and a ****ty heal. Next.
Hallowed Ground - Should be one of your point capping dailies, Hallowed Ground on the point basically means a capped point. It becomes a giant Astral Shield with Moon Touched feat, and combined with Shield itself, basically makes you and your team near invincible in it. Downsides are it disappears if you die. And won't save you from 5 man gangs.
Flame Strike - Good AoE, decent damage (great if you catch people in the center), a short knockback, and a prone if you get it off correctly. My issue with this daily is that there is a cast time to this, and the only time you'll be getting the prone AND max damage off is if you catch your target/s in the center. With people moving around all the time, this is easier said than done.
Divine Armor - Oh ****! button. There are instances you would want to cast this over hallowed ground, but very select few (your whole team is getting low in a fight). It's basically a crutch and allows you to survive things that you otherwise won't. It's a good skill, but I still have Hallowed Ground as the defensive daily over this.
Hammer of Fate - "I hope you've run out of dodges" button. High damage daily that knocks the target senseless. Has potential for one-shotting dawdling TRs and CWs. I mostly use this as a finisher and taking out targets from half life (bar very tanky DCs, GFs, GWFs in unstoppable). It homes in on the target as long as you manage to get the first hit off.
One problem though, it is very easily telegraphed, deals damage in 3 parts (unreliable, not to mention it crits independently from one another), and is easily dodged. Some hate it, some love it. It's the best offensive daily of the bunch though. Use sparingly. The AP you might've used for this could result in a capped point or re-capped point by using Hallowed Ground instead. Points win games. Kills don't (it could get you a 700k AD belt though).
POTENTIAL FEATS
I'll just list feats that are potentially/actually good for PvP, and not all of them. Feats that are natural in cleric builds (toughness, bountiful fortune, righteous rage, weapon mastery etc do not need discussion)
Holy Resolve: This is pretty darn good in PvP. It acts as your second soulforge (if you have one), giving you the time to run away from fights. I've been saved by the combination of Holy Resolve and Soulforge in PvP (and PvE) for so many times that i'll probably not make a build without it.
Templar's Domain: 5 points to potentially gain 30% MORE Armor Penetration. The problem is there's no known item set that gives ArPen for Clerics, so you'll have to rely on your jewelry/offense slots/pet augment to get it. It can be good in theory for offensive clerics, but you're giving away too much for just potential. Put points only upon testing heavily.
HEALING?
GENERAL TIPS
Dodge only when you need to. There are lots of skills that are easy to telegraph, the thing with the cleric dodge is, that it doesn't have any invincibility frames to it, so don't treat it as a dodge per-se, but more of a gap opener against other classes. Most melee range skills you can easily walk away from by moving a few units away.
OTHER STUFF I'M FORGETTING
MATCHUPS
Realistically, you shouldn't be able to beat any other class solo, unless they are bad, or are severely under geared, the best thing you can do is hold on long enough (even that is a challenge because of this thing called "Righteousness") to get help from your team mates.
Tips against Control Wizards:
Control Wizards are our bane and mortal enemy, they have tons of CC, a short CD knockback (can be AoE), strips your defenses, crazy spike damage, and more importantly, can do it from the safe range of 80'. The best thing you can do is to not waddle towards the point, and have another person take the choke for you. Lay down a shield on said person and proceed to hold a point. If you find yourself in a 1v1 against a Control Wizard, pray they don't have a daily first, but then most of the time you should try to run away, if you're forced to fight, make sure you do it where you can easily break Line of Sight and have multiple escape routes should things go really sour. Place your shield, apply BotS, and use your remaining divinity on Punishing Light (it still deals more damage per second than your other at-wills), a lot of CWs also have the bad habit of standing still on a point, you can use this to your advantage (daunting, chains, divine glow). They are still very squishy, and if you manage to make them use their Blinks, you have the possibility of killing them straight away with Hammer of Fate.
Good Skills against CWs: Daunting Light, Break the Spirit.
Tips against Trickster Rogues:
Good Skills against TRs: Chains of Blazing Light, Daunting Light, Break the Spirit, Forgemaster's Flame
Tips against Guardian Fighters:
Currently, there are 2 floating Guardian Fighter builds running around, one is your typical bunker style build, and the other is the 2 shot cheese. First, the good part: the probability of bunker GFs of killing you are as high of you killing them, eg: very low even with all their crowd control skills (IF you are in your shield). The Bad Part: Their plethora of knockbacks will most likely result in you giving up the point or getting knocked down far from your shield if you don't watch where your back is facing. The main counter to Bunker Guardian Fighters is great positioning: basically you position yourself as such that you don't need to use a dash when going back to your shield/point. Another thing to consider is to make sure your back is against a wall (Point 2 in Rivenscar Ruins and all points in Hotenow Domi). While it might sound suicidal, placing your shield near the wall means you won't be blown away from your shield. Bunker GFs WILL try to force you out of the point, it's their job. And if you think you can't hold it, move on to another point.
2 Shot GFs on the other hand are a different beast on their own. They're as good, if not better than TRs if they catch you with your pants down. They won't 2 shot you if you're in shield though, but they can still easily knock you out and 3 shot you instead. These types of GFs however, sacrifice their defenses for offense (their power boost is proportional to their block meter) so it's easier to group up against them. They aren't as common with the latter though, but you will immediately know (and fear) them if you manage to meet one.
Forgemaster's Flame is great against melee classes, as it slows them down (30%) and the divine mode is basically a pick your poison type of deal for them, if they can't burst you down, they won't kill you from the heal, if they pull out, you saved your point or your a*ss.
Good Skills against: Divine Glow, Forgemaster's Flame, Chains of Blazing Light
Tips against Great Weapon Fighters:
Tips against Devoted Clerics:
CHANGELOG
EDIT 1 (06/07/2013, 2:22 +8GMT): I didn't really want to post it right now in it's incomplete form , but to get discussion going, i've decided to anyway. The write-up will probably get a major overhaul once the big patch comes in. But i'm willing to take the chance as I have tons of time in my hands anyway. Of course, credit will be given to people who help out with the write-up. I mean this as a collection of thoughts from fellow Devoted Clerics who like/love/loathe PvP.
EDIT 2 (06/07/2013, 13:11 +8GMT): So the planned changes have been released by Cryptik and it seems that Devoted Clerics got hit by the nerf bat quite heavily judging from the reaction in the forums. The write-up will still continue, but will definitely change once I get to play a few rounds of PvP with the changes in full effect.
EDIT 3 (06/07/2013, 13:11 +8GMT): Continued, Updated for Patch .6++
EDIT 3 (07/09/2013, 22:30 +8GMT): Continued, Updated for Patch .33++
DISCLAIMER: This write-up is meant for end-game PvP (lvl 50-60). The base concepts can be applied to lower level PvP but you must adjust as you see fit.
DIVINITY MANAGEMENT
The big elephant in the room, mastering it means mastering your class, and if you can master divinity management in PvP, there's no reason for you to not to be able to manage it in PvE.
Divinity Management in PvP isn't that hard, and doesn't differ much from PvE. The problem with some Devoted Clerics I see is that they often times use their precious divinity pips on useless encounters. In PvP, there is only absolutely 1 spell you need to be in Divine Mode (99% of the time at least), and that is, wait for it, of course, Astral Shield. It helps you keep a point, it helps you siege a point, it tops your party up in down times, etc etc.
Only spend divinity on other encounters if and when you see it fit, you don't need to always be casting Divine Sunburst, or Divine Forgemaster's Flame. The problem with casting Divine Sunburst is that all classes, bar the GF (then again they have Lunging Strike) can easily get back to you (or your point) after you pop it off. 1 Divinity Pip lost for 2k damage, and a second or two of free time. The effect of Forgemaster's Flame can easily be mitigated by pulling out of combat for 5 seconds and going in again.
Using the right At-Wills and Feating correctly also help with this issue, as these manage your divinity for you. Brand of the Sun is the best At-Will for PvP since it's simply fire and forget and watch your divinity bar passively go up. Your second at-will should either be Sacred Fire OR Lance of Faith (discussed more below). The feats i'm talking about is Righteous Rage of Tempus and Ethereal Boon. Most of these feats and skills carry over seamlessly to PvE builds as well.
SKILLS AND FEATS
For people who are just looking for encounter setups here are a couple:
Skills and Feats - Hybrid
At-Will: Brand of the Sun, Lance of Faith/Sacred Flame/Astral Seal
Encounters: Astral Shield
Rotation: BotS -> PoD -> D. BtS -> FFlame
Dailies: Divine Armor, Hammer of Fate
Personal: Foresight, Holy Fervor
Skills and Feats - Pure DoT Glass
At-Will: Brand of the Sun, Lance of Faith/Sacred Flame
Encounters: Break the Spirit, Forgemaster's Flame, Prophecy of Doom
Rotation: BotS -> PoD -> D. BtS -> FFlame
Dailies: Divine Armor, Hammer of Fate
Personal: Foresight, Terrifying Insight
Skills and Feats - Standard Support (Linked Spirit
At-Will: Sacred Flame, Astral Seal
Encounters: Astral Shield, Sunburst, Chains of Blazing Light/Healing Word/Forgemaster's Flame
Dailies: Divine Armor, Hallowed Ground
Personal: Foresight, Healer's Lore
Skill Builds for PvP don't stray too far from PvE skill builds. Some skills will just have more points than others, and others will have no points at all (I don't have points in Bastion of Health but i do have Chains of Blazing Light maxed out etc.).
Your dailies should usually be Hallowed Ground OR Divine Armor + 1 (basically as long as it isn't Guardian of Faith). Personal Powers is usually Foresight + 1 as well (i personally use Terrifying Insight or Holy Fervor as the + 1)
Pre-.6 patch, Astral Shield was the catch-all skill for any cleric, whether offensive or defensive, but with the fix to Astral Shield, and the improvement and changes to other classes, it's not anymore. It's still the best skill for capping a point, and it gives your team the advantage for 10 seconds as opposed to teams that don't have it. Skills you should get should always depend on the situation, here are a few questions to ask yourself when slotting skills:
What is my party composed of?
It all starts with this, check what your party mates are, and put powers into your bar accordingly. Do you have a surplus of Control Wizards? Daunting Light and Divine Glow could probably go well since they have long duration control spells. Do you have 4 melee team mates? Forgemaster's Flame as well as Chains of Blazing light could be an option. Different party compositions call for different skill compositions as well. Adjust accordingly.
What is the opposing party is composed of?
A lot of players don't actually know who they're facing against until they meet up at point '2', while the information is already there to begin with! Players who are going to try to PvP should make it a habit to check what the opposing team is composed of, as you can easily prepare in advance what skills you would use. Do they have a lot of melee? Forgemaster's Flame and Chains of Blazing Light work great. Too much control wizards? Healing Word. Lots of squishies? Daunting Light. 5 Cleric Party? Sunburst. The possibilities are limitless.
Where am I playing?
As of writing, there are only 2 maps available for PvP, Hotenow Domination and Rivenscar Ruins. Hotenow Domination has a lot of choke points and has different terrain levels. Chains of Blazing Light and Sunburst is great for this as the former allows you to lockdown chokepoints, and the other allows you to throw people off edges.
Rivenscar Ruins on the other hand is a much larger map with more open areas. It has pillars where players can easily break Line of Sight, and while there are ledges to throw people off from, most of the combat happens on the same level. Skills that are great here are Damage over Time skills (Brand of the Sun, Forgemaster's Flame, Break the Spirit), as it is very easy to disengage and gain distance in this map, and DotS allow you to continously damage them even if they manage to break line of sight or get out of range.
ENCOUNTER/PERSONAL/DAILY POWER ANALYSIS, PERSONAL THOUGHTS
AT-WILLS
Lance of Faith - High DPS at-will, click a button, deal damage, every 3rd hit deals more damage. Very basic. Can be feated, but the feat (Focused Poise) isn't really worth it even after the changes. Personally it's my second at-will, I'm pretty sure the first 2 hits of Lance of Faith have a faster animation than Sacred Flame. If somebody can tell me otherwise, please do. (I only measure it by feeling and eye)
Astral Seal - I'm torn on this. It's a great skill for sustain in PvE, in PvP though you'll only really notice its effect in more drawn out fights. The DPS is lowest among the at-wills, and only becomes better when feated (Power of Oppression). It's an ok skill, but you can leave it out of your bar for PvP without losing too much.
Sacred Flame - The DPS isn't far off from Lance of Faith (i've seen somewhere the damage is of LoF is 2% higher), and should be on your list of a possible second at-will. It's also pretty good for supporting others via the third-hit THP bonus. Just be cautious in being lulled into auto-attacking with it, as being stationary for too long can mean death under any circumstance.
Brand of the Sun - Will be your go-to at-will, it's a divinity generator alongside ok-ish damage. The great thing is you basically apply it to as much people as you can, try to get a crit off (you can re-apply till you get a crit, you can however break the crit-dot if you re-apply it too early, takes a bit of practice in PvP)
ENCOUNTERS
Sunburst - Sunburst is good, and it is bad at the same time. It's great in PvE for AP generation, not so much in PvP since you're not guaranteed to hit 5 (let alone 4 or 3). The damage and heal is subpar, and to make the best use of it, you need to use a divinity pip. It's great in certain circumstances (defending base points in hotenow domination), but most of the time, you just bought yourself a second or 2, and while this might be sometimes game breaking, often times it is not.
Healing Word - The Good: Great against Control Wizards since before they can spike you, they have to proc pray to the RNG gods first, meaning you can mitigate a good chunk of damage. The Bad: Spike damage is king in PvP as i've pointed out repeatedly already. It's never worth a divinity pip. It should be great supporting in longer fights. You have to constantly spam this to generate divinity, which can be a good thing and a bad thing
Searing Light - No place on your bar in PvP. The cooldown is pretty low, the damage isn't very bad either, but it has no other effect to make use off.
Chains of Blazing Light - I cannot express how good this encounter is for PvP. So good in fact that I have 3 points in it.(Gasp!). It gives you breathing space against the melee classes (especially the pesky rogues), locks down CWs if you manage to get them into it, strangle points, force people to take different routes. If you are a more PvP oriented player you will want to have 3 points in this. 15 seconds might sound overkill, and people can definitely see this as a big red circle on the ground, but this eventually allows you to manipulate points as you want, which is a GODSEND in PvP.
Daunting Light - Our only high spike damage skill. It's good for what it does, but it takes practice to land correctly (i still miss often on static targets). The great thing about this encounter is that very few people see it coming. And it usually results in "WTF happened?" moments. I've killed plenty of people standing still on points (you can cast this from the safe safe range of 80'). The divine mode gives you that surprise burst as well as the effect is now instant.
Forgemaster's Flame - Clerics often forget the part where this actually slows the target for a good amount (30%), so you don't always need to have to cast it in divine mode. It's useful for kiting, gaining divinity, and as a heal if you really need it. Another thing to keep in mind is the damage from FF is dealt faster over a shorter amount of time (5 parts in 5 seconds) compared to Break the Spirit (5 parts over 7.5 seconds).
Prophecy of Doom - Grants a defense debuff, which is nice, but the real benefit of this is the massive AP you gain if the target dies with the debuff on him. Unfortunately, taking out the target quickly depends mostly on your team mates and your timing. You also gain the AP if Prophecy of Doom kills the target.
Bastion of Health - High Cooldown heal with cast delay. Has little place in PvP. It might save your team once in a while, but then if you don't, you're down an encounter for 18-22 seconds. Just not efficient enough.
Break the Spirit - Short cooldown DoT that grants one of the best debuffs in PvP: Weakness. 30% (max rank) damage redux is great specially against TRs and CWs. The divine mode currently sucks (slows for the value of non-divine FFlame and a stun that's basically negligible), and the DoT happens much slower than other DoTs (one per 1.5 seconds for 5 ticks, 7.5 seconds total). Doesn't mean that you should overlook this skill though, the debuff it grants is enough for it to have a place in most encounter bars.
Divine Glow - It's a pretty easy to land (the animation is pretty quick, ok AoE [10']) AoE spell that does ok damage, still doesn't remove the fact that it's a skill shot though. The main reason why this doesn't make most cleric encounter bars is that it is bugged in it's current form (reduces the damage of your team when in divine mode, the rule of 5s combines both enemies and allies, etc). Assuming it gets fixed in the next patch, a 7.5% damage resist debuff will be great against other DCs, GFs, and GWFs.
Astral Shield - As I write this statement it's been a good week or so with the Astral Shield fixes. It's still pretty good for PvP but not the end-all for Devoted Clerics like back then. It's still your best heal/damage mitigation. It's not a must slot now though.
PERSONAL POWERS
Healer's Lore: Slot this if you're a healer spec, or you have this feated (via Mark of Mending and Disciple of Divine lore) otherwise, steer clear.
Divine Fortune: Again, another healer spec power This solves the "i have no more Divinity" problem for most healer DCs in PvP as well, just spam healing word and watch that divinity go!
Soothe: Uh, No.
Holy Fervor: A power that can be used on any build. Additional AP generation isn't bad at all, however, this competes with your 2nd personal power. It's not a must have though.
Foresight: 6% damage mitigation unfeated, 11% when. It's always active on you (the icon isn't present though), and only affects other people when you heal them. Great whether you're a offensive or defensive DC. This usually never leaves your personal power column, barring very few, and very specific instances.
Terrifying Insight: Good to have for offensive clerics, the cap is easily achievable since most of your skills are dots, however, this doesn't do anything for you in PvE (unless you're the second cleric), and getting this means sacrificing 3 points on other probably more useful things (Bastion of Health?).
Prophetic Action: Can be good, can be bad, depending on how you look at it. It can block a potentially lethal Lashing Blade or Ice Knife, but then again it can also block a Brand of the Sun tick or Magic Missile. Most of the time though, it's the latter.
DAILIES
Guardian of Faith - Bad. It's a dodgeable prone with bad damage, a long cast animation, and a ****ty heal. Next.
Hallowed Ground - Should be one of your point capping dailies, Hallowed Ground on the point basically means a capped point. It becomes a giant Astral Shield with Moon Touched feat, and combined with Shield itself, basically makes you and your team near invincible in it. Downsides are it disappears if you die. And won't save you from 5 man gangs.
Flame Strike - Good AoE, decent damage (great if you catch people in the center), a short knockback, and a prone if you get it off correctly. My issue with this daily is that there is a cast time to this, and the only time you'll be getting the prone AND max damage off is if you catch your target/s in the center. With people moving around all the time, this is easier said than done.
Divine Armor - Oh ****! button. There are instances you would want to cast this over hallowed ground, but very select few (your whole team is getting low in a fight). It's basically a crutch and allows you to survive things that you otherwise won't. It's a good skill, but I still have Hallowed Ground as the defensive daily over this.
Hammer of Fate - "I hope you've run out of dodges" button. High damage daily that knocks the target senseless. Has potential for one-shotting dawdling TRs and CWs. I mostly use this as a finisher and taking out targets from half life (bar very tanky DCs, GFs, GWFs in unstoppable). It homes in on the target as long as you manage to get the first hit off.
One problem though, it is very easily telegraphed, deals damage in 3 parts (unreliable, not to mention it crits independently from one another), and is easily dodged. Some hate it, some love it. It's the best offensive daily of the bunch though. Use sparingly. The AP you might've used for this could result in a capped point or re-capped point by using Hallowed Ground instead. Points win games. Kills don't (it could get you a 700k AD belt though).
POTENTIAL FEATS
I'll just list feats that are potentially/actually good for PvP, and not all of them. Feats that are natural in cleric builds (toughness, bountiful fortune, righteous rage, weapon mastery etc do not need discussion)
Holy Resolve: This is pretty darn good in PvP. It acts as your second soulforge (if you have one), giving you the time to run away from fights. I've been saved by the combination of Holy Resolve and Soulforge in PvP (and PvE) for so many times that i'll probably not make a build without it.
Templar's Domain: 5 points to potentially gain 30% MORE Armor Penetration. The problem is there's no known item set that gives ArPen for Clerics, so you'll have to rely on your jewelry/offense slots/pet augment to get it. It can be good in theory for offensive clerics, but you're giving away too much for just potential. Put points only upon testing heavily.
HEALING?
GENERAL TIPS
Dodge only when you need to. There are lots of skills that are easy to telegraph, the thing with the cleric dodge is, that it doesn't have any invincibility frames to it, so don't treat it as a dodge per-se, but more of a gap opener against other classes. Most melee range skills you can easily walk away from by moving a few units away.
OTHER STUFF I'M FORGETTING
MATCHUPS
Realistically, you shouldn't be able to beat any other class solo, unless they are bad, or are severely under geared, the best thing you can do is hold on long enough (even that is a challenge because of this thing called "Righteousness") to get help from your team mates.
Tips against Control Wizards:
Control Wizards are our bane and mortal enemy, they have tons of CC, a short CD knockback (can be AoE), strips your defenses, crazy spike damage, and more importantly, can do it from the safe range of 80'. The best thing you can do is to not waddle towards the point, and have another person take the choke for you. Lay down a shield on said person and proceed to hold a point. If you find yourself in a 1v1 against a Control Wizard, pray they don't have a daily first, but then most of the time you should try to run away, if you're forced to fight, make sure you do it where you can easily break Line of Sight and have multiple escape routes should things go really sour. Place your shield, apply BotS, and use your remaining divinity on Punishing Light (it still deals more damage per second than your other at-wills), a lot of CWs also have the bad habit of standing still on a point, you can use this to your advantage (daunting, chains, divine glow). They are still very squishy, and if you manage to make them use their Blinks, you have the possibility of killing them straight away with Hammer of Fate.
Good Skills against CWs: Daunting Light, Break the Spirit.
Tips against Trickster Rogues:
Good Skills against TRs: Chains of Blazing Light, Daunting Light, Break the Spirit, Forgemaster's Flame
Tips against Guardian Fighters:
Currently, there are 2 floating Guardian Fighter builds running around, one is your typical bunker style build, and the other is the 2 shot cheese. First, the good part: the probability of bunker GFs of killing you are as high of you killing them, eg: very low even with all their crowd control skills (IF you are in your shield). The Bad Part: Their plethora of knockbacks will most likely result in you giving up the point or getting knocked down far from your shield if you don't watch where your back is facing. The main counter to Bunker Guardian Fighters is great positioning: basically you position yourself as such that you don't need to use a dash when going back to your shield/point. Another thing to consider is to make sure your back is against a wall (Point 2 in Rivenscar Ruins and all points in Hotenow Domi). While it might sound suicidal, placing your shield near the wall means you won't be blown away from your shield. Bunker GFs WILL try to force you out of the point, it's their job. And if you think you can't hold it, move on to another point.
2 Shot GFs on the other hand are a different beast on their own. They're as good, if not better than TRs if they catch you with your pants down. They won't 2 shot you if you're in shield though, but they can still easily knock you out and 3 shot you instead. These types of GFs however, sacrifice their defenses for offense (their power boost is proportional to their block meter) so it's easier to group up against them. They aren't as common with the latter though, but you will immediately know (and fear) them if you manage to meet one.
Forgemaster's Flame is great against melee classes, as it slows them down (30%) and the divine mode is basically a pick your poison type of deal for them, if they can't burst you down, they won't kill you from the heal, if they pull out, you saved your point or your a*ss.
Good Skills against: Divine Glow, Forgemaster's Flame, Chains of Blazing Light
Tips against Great Weapon Fighters:
Tips against Devoted Clerics:
CHANGELOG
EDIT 1 (06/07/2013, 2:22 +8GMT): I didn't really want to post it right now in it's incomplete form , but to get discussion going, i've decided to anyway. The write-up will probably get a major overhaul once the big patch comes in. But i'm willing to take the chance as I have tons of time in my hands anyway. Of course, credit will be given to people who help out with the write-up. I mean this as a collection of thoughts from fellow Devoted Clerics who like/love/loathe PvP.
EDIT 2 (06/07/2013, 13:11 +8GMT): So the planned changes have been released by Cryptik and it seems that Devoted Clerics got hit by the nerf bat quite heavily judging from the reaction in the forums. The write-up will still continue, but will definitely change once I get to play a few rounds of PvP with the changes in full effect.
EDIT 3 (06/07/2013, 13:11 +8GMT): Continued, Updated for Patch .6++
EDIT 3 (07/09/2013, 22:30 +8GMT): Continued, Updated for Patch .33++
Gabriel Angelfire - Devoted Cleric // Karguk the Impaler - Great Weapon Fighter // Zephalyne - Control Wizard
PVP: How to make your life less miserable as a Devoted Clerics -- Still in it's Unfinished Glory
Dragon
PVP: How to make your life less miserable as a Devoted Clerics -- Still in it's Unfinished Glory
Dragon
Post edited by gtxinsane on
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Comments
PVP: How to make your life less miserable as a Devoted Clerics -- Still in it's Unfinished Glory
Dragon
PVP: How to make your life less miserable as a Devoted Clerics -- Still in it's Unfinished Glory
Dragon
try immediately jump when you start to get up , seems to cut the animation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mcCcarRZ-I
And on topic: Great guide, I experienced some of your thoughts myself. Personally I use HW a lot and a combination of astral seal and brand of the sun, the D support is nice if you can get that on every enemy in sight. The more the merrier. Plus it supports you with a little healing.
Yeah that's a great thing to put in the guide as well, as i forgot to mention that the dodge allows you to phase through players. i hope to continue this as i get home, at least to complete the match up parts.
@baqqara
Yeah we get that at times. I even feel that it's one of the reasons AS is getting a nerf.
You can actually play PvP wothout AS. It's just too good to play without though (i can only agine the flame from your team if you play without it). There will be times that plopping AS down does more harm than good, as it actually tells your opponent "Ill stand in this circle and stay in it forever. It also gives people a false sense of security, making people stop instead of constantly moving. People who say they've tanked 3 TRs in AS basically have fought undergeared people. AS is great. But if it's not in multiples you will die even if you are in it if you're unprepared.
PVP: How to make your life less miserable as a Devoted Clerics -- Still in it's Unfinished Glory
Dragon
Totally agree, I am CONSTANTLY moving, I rarely stay in one place unless quickly casting imp sunburst. Other than that, I run in a circle, slide through middle, its all positioning and constant movement to stay alive. Which I really enjoy!
wtb burst self healing to survive while my teammates peel off any why is attacking me.
Yes, movement is the key to being successful in using DC in PvP (in any class actually). I've seen all the people saying DC is now screwed in PvP with the AS nerf incoming. Most fights don't even last long enough (barring double AS shenanigans) for the whole AS duration to last (not to mention most fights happen outside of it).
We shouldn't be surviving burst damage in the first place. My only pet peeve is that if we actually DO survive it (you dodged correctly, managed to get off a few points of heal to mitigate lethal damage etc.), make it so that it punishes the offensive player (they didn't CC, or chain their skills correctly) by allowing us to heal the damage afterwards. I'm not even that mad about the stacking change in Astral Shield because it made for stupid matches in PvP (not to mention it made PvE easy). Basically if we remove Righteousness and buff a few of our heals (double values for Sunburst, Healing Word, and Bastion of Health i guess?) the situation is controlled.
And thank you for reading. I still do hope to finish this sometime soon, the problem is I suddenly have a lot on my plate after writing this guide and I'm barely finding the time to reply to you guys.
PVP: How to make your life less miserable as a Devoted Clerics -- Still in it's Unfinished Glory
Dragon
Unless I'm completely overmatched by a GF or I completely overmatch a GF, alot of my 1v1 fights against a GF last longer than 10 or even 15 seconds.
And it's really not about a single fight, it's about fighting a sequence of fights. One of the big advantages of the cleric in PvP is the ability to heal up w/o having to run to a potion point (or rely on glory pots) which means if I can survive a particular fight I can still stay at a tower without having to run off. So yeah AS duration being cut has a huge impact.
As for mobility being key, I completely agree, which is why I proposed changing Astral Shield to a personal buff (sorta like what you see now on live during those few seconds after the AS circle on the ground disappears but the buff is still on you) that would work like a Sunburst heal: all allies in the radius when it's cast get the AS buff for ten seconds without having to be rooted to a particular point on the ground. The ability to then move around with the AS buff could make up for the decrease in up time. Additionally it would make it harder for the enemy to figure out if you have the buff or not since there would be no telltale circle on the ground and would allow Clerics to have AS while transiting between points which would mitigate the impact of ambushes.
I disagree with your comments regarding Astral Seal though the nerfs to Power of Opression and Cleanse have undoubtedly decreased the utility of Astral Seal. Coupled with Brand of the Sun and another DoT source like Plaguefire, I can basically tag all the enemies within range and get heals from all of them as each DoT procs.
You've obviously had better returns on Chains than I have. I found the stun length entirely too short to be a difference maker. If an opposing cleric uses it, I am generally not concerned. If he is marking a spot, no biggie for me cuz I'm ranging him anyway. The only utility is marking a tower, but even that is more psychological since the damage is meh and the stun is laughable when compared to what the other classes have in terms of stun/CC/lockdown. That being said the nerf to Astral Shield has probably increased the value of Chains.
I like running with Break the Spirit since it is a DoT (astral seal synergy) and has a very low cooldown compared to some other options, allowing for a pretty good uptime. The debuff has probably allowed me to survive a lot of hits that I otherwise wouldn't have.
But all in all a very good write up.
I am curious to see what changes if any you recommend after whatever changes make it to live.
Btw, you didn't mention the best key to victory...be on the better team
Yes, most GF fights last longer than 15 seconds, but usually the battles are short enough that you only need to cast AS once to decide the outcome of the skirmish. And i completely agree about getting topped off post fights (for you and your team), the real problem with this is Righteousness, it's usually much more efficient to run to a pot than top yourself off using divinity (not a problem when you have healing word equipped, but most of the time i don't)
Yeah, my main beef with astral shield is that it locks you down for a certain amount of time in an area. And if your team isn't very organized, they sometimes fight on the node expecting a shield to be down only to die because it's actually on cooldown because you used it for the pre-siege.
I'm more on a love-relationship with ASeal more than anything else. Sometimes the spread DoT/Heal works wonders (1000ish per tick isn't bad). And maybe it's my choice of Stones than anything else as I haven't tried plaguefire on a dc (using Vorpals) because of it's interactions with Sacred Flame and Repurpose Soul.
My love for it stems from that it doesn't need to use a divinity pip to save me from other classes. It's basically does what sunburst does for others without using divinity: buying time (sunburst buys you usually 2-3 seconds, chains buys you 2). Of course there are definitely moments where sunburst is more viable, but the reason above is what sold it for me.
Yeah, break the spirit is great, sometimes i even run Forgemaster, Break the Spirit and AS against TR heavy lineups. My only qualm about this spell is that it's inconsistent to the usual DoT rules (once per second, this procs at almost once per 1.5 seconds). The great/worst thing about this encounter is that it's divinity mode isn't the best (i'd say its very bad), the stun is very short, and the slow i can easily get from a non-divine FFlame.
Thank you for the feedback, i'll definitely put into mind the things you've mentioned. As for the possible changes, judging from the change log, i think this opens us up to other possible skill combinations WITHOUT Astral Shield. The problem is most of our skills are extremely underwhelming, inconsistent, unreliable. I fear for the future of the Cleric in PvP. Though since it's the only thing that keeps me from shelving this game permanently, unless they suddenly half the values of cleric the has, i guess it's for us to adapt.
Yeah, good teams are definitely the way to go. I've queued as a 5 man stack (one of each class, no double dc shenanigans) with my guild plenty of times, the problem is we usually get matched with Pugs, undergeared people, or if we do get matched with other stacks, it's still lopsided (one way or the other). Made me wish that this game has a practice lobby for like-minded PvP guilds to have a go at it.
PVP: How to make your life less miserable as a Devoted Clerics -- Still in it's Unfinished Glory
Dragon
I upgraded from chains to Forgemaster's Flame while in Divinity and I like that spell alot, 1v1 or in group. Since it heals WHILE its slows....if he gets close i get burst of healing and then I dodge. I think it is one of our better CCs..but thats just me!
I usually run with a premade so i get to actually do stuff than just get 2 shot. But when I do PUG and my teammates aren't up-to-par, I let people catch CC before attempting to plop down a shield. As I said, people usually don't know what they are up against, and usually the only tell-tale sign that a cleric is there (aside from it looking like a cleric) is the audio and visual for shield.
Once they know though, it's best to just not be alone, and let your other teammates catch the CC, and just look far ahead for stealthed TRs (panning your camera around, you catch them if you mouse over them). Remember that most CWs also fight away from the node (the objective) so as long as you can keep a party member in the node, chances are you can reinforce back right away.
PVP: How to make your life less miserable as a Devoted Clerics -- Still in it's Unfinished Glory
Dragon
Apparently GFs also have the ability to raise the dead.
I'm new in PvP and atm I've got a full-healing build (using linked spirit) and I think that's work not so bad in PvP and the only big problem is to build up divinity power. But I think it's only my play style that need to be changed (I'm PvE oriented :P).
But I've got two questions about PvP regarding two situations that I don't understand how to manage:
- Double cleric enemies: Two healing clerics means 99% of AS up. Even it means Hallowed grounds up. How to help in this situation? Healing the team helps but the two enemy healers grants a better heal and so the combat will end with our death. Here's something else that we can do?
- Smoke bomb spam: I hate this skill. Against two thief with this skill it means 6 sec of daze ... that means gg and all the team killed. How to evade this? The slide evade this? (I tried to use the slide but everytime I get dazed: it's only to get the right time or it's impossible to evade?
That's a cool video, but why did the GF never use Lunging Strike? It also like he never used any encounters at all.
Excellent post, but is this a typo?
For encounters you have only Astral Shield, but in the rotation you have three Encounters, but not Astral Shield (Prophecy of Doom, divine Break the Spirit, Forgemaster's Flame).
Also, what do you suggest for an Anointed Champion?
~
I usually go with Healing Word + Astral Shield + Exaltation (if I'm heavily targeted).
If it's easier for me, say, our team has lots of prone power, I replace HW with Divine Glow.