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Has anyone seen a successful CN run with GWF or GF?
killz2many
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 146 Bounty Hunter
Has anyone ever seen a Castle Never group succeed with a GWF or GF in there party? I'm not saying it's impossible, but I'm wondering if it ever happens. I find that once you get to the 8.3 and above dungeon set no one wants anything to do with GWF or GF.
Is it possible to just call this a 3 class end-game?
Is it possible to just call this a 3 class end-game?
Killz2Many ~ Greatest Weapon Fighter ~ Dragon Shard
Post edited by killz2many on
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I think you'll find the power you felt in T1 and below largely goes away due to the large HP pools of enemies you fight and our At-Wills/Encounters not really getting proportionally stronger to what they were before.
Playing CW or DC is gear dependent, but at the same time...not so much. They really just need the AP gain and they can do content - anything else is just efficiency+.
TR is largely the same, you need to be able to get that crit bleed tick but once you do it's smooth sailing. You can do this at the minimum GS requirement for any dungeon and be very successful.
When we do T1 and below dungeons, the bosses don't have massive HP pools, this doesn't allow TR to pull ahead 1-2m minimum every boss fight. The Elite/Champion enemies are similar - they don't have the HP for TR to pull ahead.
CW can do well here too, most of the time they can one shot the trash pulls but don't because at that point in time you aren't really rolling super meta 2xDC or 2xCW never take damage setups.
GWF in these same dungeons does proportionally more damage because their (small) piece of the pie seems much larger. Because of the huge jump in HP at T2, GWF then needs disproportionately higher stats to be seen as not dead weight. In addition to that, you have to be on top of your game the entire run and use shift cancelling to get anything out of your class.
Instead of one shotting mobs like T1, in T2 CW just does a ****load of damage to them and can chain that burst forever. TR can setup its massive 20k/tick bleed and hold down one button and parse highest in any dungeon but CN. Even a DC if specd for it can do a large amount of damage but it requires a bit of upkeep on their part and can be hard to maintain for an entire dungeon (especially CN).
But yeah, you can do CN. You just need to have a pro status CW since most rely on a second to cover up their mistakes.
My thing is, my GWF is decked out gear wise only real thing to do is bring runes from rank 6-7 and I'm very adapt at playing the class. But my experience on the harder dungeons is the "good groups" only go was CW, RT, and DC and any pugs you get fail a few fights and someone rage quits before you can finish the last boss while on DD.
I don't mind the game being harder, in fact I welcome it. I think people should try to complete these dungeons with all 5 classes because it makes the game challenging as intended.
I really don't think the developers intentionally made their design terrible. What they need to do is nerf CW, TR and give a buff to the GF. Because if they just buff the GWF and GF the game will just get even easier.
imo GWF is a fun skillful class because it requires you to do good at it to have a chance to succeed. Instead of making it like the other classes they should make the other classes like the GWF.
As it stands, if you sit there as the only thing killing a boss as a GWF you're making your party members CC adds for an hour/waiting for someone to make a mistake so the group can wipe.
I get a lot of friend requests whenever I do pug groups, so basically you run with people and they see you aren't terrible and they ask you to come again sometimes.
I don't think nerfing the other classes is the way to go.
Actually the entire dungeon difficulty concept in the game is a bit off kilter. I leveled my CW and did Karrundax. Sort of. See, as a CW I never actually hit him. My fight was all about wave after wave of kobolds trying to kill our cleric, but golly, that red dragon really did look cool. Wish I could've fought him. Sadly, my boss fight was all about trash.
No, I'm sorry but the difficulty in these things needs to be lowered a touch. When something is so critical you start tossing out two classes to get through, GF and GWF, you've got problems in the works. In this case its with the classes yes, but also with the dungeons themselves.
From #1 Guild Pve/Pvp [ Lemonade Stand ]
Completed every dungeon in the game on my GF actually.
I contribute decently, but its immensely more difficult to do that on a GF then litterally any other class. GWF can deal solid dps in there, especially since its such a heavy aoe dungeon.
GF? mm I can put out numbers in the 25-30+ million range in a long run, but yea still.. If I played a rogue at the same level, well it wouldnt even be funny the difference.
I ran my wizard on it first time today too.. Insanely more powerful. I actually out damaged our rogue even in the first section (no kb kills) (who is imo the best rogue in the game, hes insane).. It's all about the aoe in that first section.
Guard can do ok aoe dps, IF a CW stacks the mobs for him with blackhole.
But then again a 2nd CW can do nearly the same dps, better kb - and fill the critical role of CC in boss fights.
Main reason GF isn't wanted there is simple:
Dragons are too freakin slow. So easy to dodge there attacks means the rogue tanks as good if not better.
Give dragons a few faster, near-undodgeable (or completely for cn), but low damage attacks. Stuff a guardian will shrug off like its nothing ,but a glass canon dps rogue will not enjoy - enough to break his stealth and slow his dps, to encourage the guardian to get agro.
PS: Ep Dreadvault is harder. And guardians are great there as they have knockbacks which are pretty key to the endboss fight, possibly even more valuable then rogues due to its unique design - at least very well played/geared ones.
-Epic Dread Vault Crushed.
Characters (Dragon): Axer (60 Guardian, Leader of Crush It!), Controller (60 Wizard), Warlocker (60 Warlock)
Funny you mention dreadvault, GFs suck there. You sit on the top right corner with 3 CWs 2 Clerics and and range the boss while pushing all mobs off the cliff.
People don't run with GFs because most GFs suck (which can evidently seen by people claiming any other class can outdps them).
When I'm in a group with 2 TR's or 2 CW's the dungeons are complete easy mode, which tells me the classes need to be nerfed. I'm not asking for the game to get easier, I'm asking for a balance of classes so that every class works just as hard to accomplish the same goal.
Here's an example of a group that would fail, fail, and fail. *Edit- In harder difficulty's T1's are easy mode for any setup*
GWF, DC, GF, CW, GWF
3 DPS, 1 controller, 1 Healer, 1 Tank
Honestly I wouldn't even want to do a GWF, GF, CW, TR, DC.
Then you've only played with bad GF's, the majority of CN is pure AoE and with a stalwart set and a semi-decent CW GF's will pull their weight for the entire run, i'm normally top on damage as long as we kill draco in one go.
EDIT*
Or are you talking pre-end game? Because that's not really what's in question here.
If you aren't finding groups, make them yourself. Let those people see you aren't a downy, run with them again. When someone achieves success they rarely stray from it, hence the wedge driven in between the classes as of current. You can hardly blame them, if 5 GWF's could easily clear content successfully, would you bother to bring other classes?
Don't blame the players, blame the developers.
Content scales from T1 being interesting fights with unique mechanics, to T2 being just add zergs as if they ran out of time, threw their hands in the air and said **** it. More adds.
Please, don't say things like this. I play a GWF, and yes our class is behind the others, and that should be addressed, but there is NO PROBLEM with the dungeons. They are engaging, difficult, and fun.
There are plenty of other games out there that are easy and cater to people that want to win easily, without fighting for perfection. There is absolutely no reason that this game's difficulty should be scaled back in any way. Especially not the top end dungeons.
I've done a lot of T2s and completed CN, the only class I've lost in damage to are rogues. I've also played with very good CWs and I've outdamaged them as well. But in order to do that like chruch said, I have to sprint cancel everything and be extremely efficient with everything. But I think that goes without saying since I'm performing up to par with other players who are, I assume, are also trying to perform at max efficiency.
However I'm not denying that a 2nd CW would be better for a dracolich fight or a 2nd rogue/GF for faster boss killing but I really like being a GWF because I can perform multiple smaller roles, such as assisting rogue with boss damage (45% defense reduction with near 100% uptime is nothing to scoff at), helping the CW and DC do their jobs without fuss (by using roar stun + damage to grab aggro), and of course just straight up AoE killing adds.
proof: http://imgur.com/bMUMo9Q
Our kills average 5-8 minutes on draco depending on the RNG of the adds.
donaldtroll, I know that my guild tries to include each class in each dungeon and work to try to find the most effective use for said class. I'd say maybe you need to find a new guild? But there is a truth to the usefulness of GWF needing to be worked on, and if it isnt addressed in time,...maybe new game?