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Swashbuckler or Master Assassin armor - watdo?
erdokan
Member Posts: 188 Arc User
This entire time my gut feeling is telling me that MA would be of more use than Swash. A guaranteed 1350 Power for 6 seconds sounds really nice esp from a PvP perspective. Was thinking that if I stack power and recovery then I could replace SE with Lurk + Bloodbath. Lurk + enough power stacked + 1350 additional power from MA + first strike passive = enough to 1hko any CW with Lashing Blade? Also wondering if this would be overkill if going with a vorpal enchant instead of plague fire.
Shadow strike to refill stealth after the LB hit (there's usually more targs around). Would also mean that I can safely replace the PvP armor set. I value the 20% stealth meter bonus quite a bit, esp in 1 vs 1's - wouldn't be able to make up for that loss if I go for Swash but I'm not sure just how gamebreaking this would be.
Would appericiate any input from people that use the swash set. I figured that it's more useful for PvE - what I would really like to know is how much of a difference the set bonus makes/how long the stacks last etc. If I like the counter argument enough then I'm going with Swash, if I don't like it enough then I'll go with MA. Headin to bed now - hope to see a couple of good replies when I wake up!
Shadow strike to refill stealth after the LB hit (there's usually more targs around). Would also mean that I can safely replace the PvP armor set. I value the 20% stealth meter bonus quite a bit, esp in 1 vs 1's - wouldn't be able to make up for that loss if I go for Swash but I'm not sure just how gamebreaking this would be.
Would appericiate any input from people that use the swash set. I figured that it's more useful for PvE - what I would really like to know is how much of a difference the set bonus makes/how long the stacks last etc. If I like the counter argument enough then I'm going with Swash, if I don't like it enough then I'll go with MA. Headin to bed now - hope to see a couple of good replies when I wake up!
David Valtiere, Lvl 70 TR with perfect Lvl 60 gear which I don't want to replace cause nostalgia yo ;_;
Post edited by erdokan on
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You are doing it wrong. Glory gear is BiS for pvp for us TRs since it comes with armor penetration. Stack armor penetration to 20-22%, crit to 40-50%, then stack whatever of your choice for the utility and defense slots.
The only PVE items you need is for the left side of you character sheet (necklace, rings, belt, shirt, pants).
I'm amazed that with all the available information regarding dps and/or burst in this forum, people still have the notion that a lot of power = damage.
ArP doesn't matter as much for PvP though. TR/CW won't have a set 22% dmg resistance, and DF bleeds take care of the tanky classes. There's also this thing called rank 9 dark enchantments; a few of those + pyrotechnic bands and I don't see why I can't use MA or Swash. So yeh, disappointed with the only answer so far LOL. More input plox?
P.S. A lot of power IS damage, tested it myself. Hit a little bit harder every time I upgrade a radiant gem slot.
Lashing hits on most cws without first strike passive and anything other special already for 12-15k out of stealth, lurker and first strike would be a complete overkill. Not sure if the plague fire res. debuff works for a first hit as well, if not vorpal might be the better choice. However I do like the little dot - getting away with horse? Fall down by the DoT while beeing knocked and get a free lashing blade crit without beeing able to dodge it.
Yeah as do I - advantages like that make me think that it's better to use plague instead of vorpal for PvP. Anyways, still rather undecided on which armor to go with. Bought some swash gear, then started doubting and trying to sell it back now haha. x3 25% chance for 338 Pow/Recov for 6 seconds somehow doesn't sound like it'll be useful @ PvP really. Yet, this is considered the best set effect of all sets. So I am wondering - how come that it is? Come on folks, give me a reason to buy this armor! =P
@Damian: Forgot to mention this - T2 sets give a dmg related roll instead of the max lp roll on PvP gear. since max lp is useless given the dps output vs max lp atm (esp for a class like TR), you seriously can't consider the pvp gear as BiS lmao.
Didn't try swash set myself, but for PvE it might work well, just not sure if 3rd DF hit counts as 1 attack (thats what i guess, and so you will not keep that stack up, full DF is like 4s, WR 1s - 4 attacks in 5s with 25% Chance? Hmpf, can't work well).
Ignornace is bliss I guess. I consistently come out on top in my most of my matches with 18+ kills with stacked arm pen and 50% critical with overrun critical.
Rank 9 enchantments cost a fortune in AD but go ahead and waste money. Since you claim you tested that a lot of power = a lot of damage, please enlighten me on how power scales. Do you even know how power scales at all?
Go ahead and use DF because only noobs stand there and take the third hit. You'll see once you actually pvp against good players. DF bleeds won't take care of the good tanky classes because they'll do their stun-lock combo before you get off the third hit and then you're dead.
You say you're disappointed with my answer, I'm disappointed with your ignorance.
^ straight to the point
OP if you can get past the tone of this post it has a lot of good, accurate advice
Cheers, and yeah swash's effect will be very useful when using DF I'd imagine. Every DF strike counts as 1 hit, so that's quite a few hits for the 3rd strike. Still, since it's a 25% chance then it'll probably only give 2 stacks. Scenario vs each class that I'm thinking of:
GF - Extra power won't do anything, there's recov but can barely make use of that with the prone atks that you have to deal with - even with ItC.
GWF - Would work nicely on them. Needs to be in close range, can pop off 2 DF's with ItC.
DC - Yeah, can see this working out nicely aswell. Tons of herpaderp clerics in PvP that think they can tank everything with astral shield.
CW/TR - Too dodgy + better alternatives available (mainly LB). Can see it work out with stealth CoS vs a CW as opener. But as I said, good CW's will be able to make an educated guess when the LB hit might be coming after they've been alerted by CoS. Then again, with swash it would reduce the amount of charges that CoS uses to ko a CW from full lp. Likely would still take up 8+ charges for any decently geared CW, so its like mehh.
@Damian: I don't think you'd be able to recognize good PvP players even if they hit you in the face lmao. There's 2 types of rogues: Good rogues and bad rogues. As soon as something takes skill to use, the bad rogues start panicking (including the ones that only have textbook experience). It is now clear to me which group of rogues you belong to, due to your incredibly ignorant answer concerning DF.
It is insanely easy to ks as a rogue - they are the second best kill stealers after CW's. So you getting 18+ kills every match means almost nothing, it simply means that you are playing the rogue class. What I do is solo cap the 'enemy' zone (the zone that's near the opponent spawn point). It almost guarantees that I have to atleast 1 vs 1 someone and beat them to complete the cap. I've almost never lost these 1 vs 1's and won a fair share of outnumbered battles at this zone aswell to complete the cap. I play PUGs only, and I always have the top score (usually most kills aswell) when I play with a semi competent team or better which is about 70% of the time. I've gained over 1m glory by pvping legitimately, aswell as a nice amount of blue items (though 90% of the time it's a boots reward, wth is up with that anyways). Got 1.6k ArP atm. Increasing it doesn't change anything, increasing power does.
A rogue like you wouldn't bother me at the slightest when he comes to defend his zone - I'd eat you alive lmao. Going to guess your atks...SF/CoS at-wills, SB/LS + DS + LB encounters, right? Hahahaha. I have no interest in giving you any more information than I've already given since you haven't provided me with any useful information either. Not going to teach you which skills to use and how to use them to their maximum potential - please learn to play so that you figure this out yourself. Oh and lastly, yes I can afford rank 9 dark enchants and it won't cost me a single real life cent - made a lot of AD legitimately which I've spent wisely aswell. Hence the thread - I don't like making these decisions until I'm 100% sure of them. Maybe you should spend more time playing instead of forum geeking so that you'd be able to afford these kinds of enchants aswell.
And which advice would that be? Anything that is slightly informative in his post is stuff that I already know and didn't ask about in my OP. What, you think only noobs stand still and take DF's 3rd hit aswell? L O L. Honestly...
Wow, what a tool. I'll stealth and CoS spam you to 100-0 with greater plague fire proccing my 6x greater tenebrous enchantments all hitting you for insane damage. If not dead by then because you blinked some of the CoS spam, hit you with impact shot right before stealth ends to stun you and followup with 3 more impact shots. Use impossible to catch whenever CC'd and watch you blink away from the point.
With lurker's assault + stealth, I can melt someone in seconds with CoS spam + greater plague fire + tenebrous procs and do 1v2 easily. I wouldn't have to get close to you to kill you, I'll kill you from range. I guess you're playing bad rogues and make the assumption that everyone use LB as an opener.
Tenebrous procs can proc off of anything, including plague fire dots so even if you blink away, they can go off and kill you. With Advanced Combat Tracker, Tenebrous procs account for 15% of my overall damage alone in a pvp match.
You really don't know what you're talking about.
1% of arm pen is 1% damage till DR kicks in at 22. Do you know how much power does it take to get 1% damage? I don't think so because you don't know what you're talking about.
Protip 2: I can see you coming. Yes, even if you stealth before being in visible sight I will know that you're coming @ most situations.
Protip 3: I have stealth too, remember? Being a TR and all? Swash/MA = TR gear? Did you not know this?
Protip 4: You are involving a daily in your strategy to 'melt' me? I win most of these 1 vs 1's by only using at-wills and encounters. Not using 'P2w' gear either - just PvP set/rank 5 enchants and stuff - main value = gemmed ex pants/shirt lol. I do have 3x greater teneb and 2x greater plague enchants in my inv but I'm saving them up for when I buy the mh ancient dagger to complete my set.
Protip 5: You think I've gotten 1m+ glory by being totally clueless and not fully knowing the class I play as? Lol.
Protip 6: 22% DR doesn't exist in PvP - most CWs and TRs have less than that. CW and TR are also the most popular classes that you encounter in PvP. And stacking ArP instead of a different stat so that you can hit more on tanky classes is just stupid since the amount of ArP that you need for CW/TR is enough to deal with tanky classes aswell.
Anything else, o clueless one?
Protip 1: Wrong. I have 40% more stealth due to the pvp bonus and 5/5 Improved Cunning Sneak.
Protip 2: I'm not dumb enough to stealth right in front of you. And now I guess your psychic as well.
Protip 3: Your stealth won't last as long as mine
Protip 4: I melt people alone with CoS spam not from stealth. I use stealth as an opener to spam CoS and watch how they freak out. What's this about P2W gear says the man that can afford rank 9 enchantments? Hypocrisy much?
Protip 5: I don't care how much glory you earned, you don't even know your own class and are totally clueless when it comes to stats.
Damian aside, let's just say that I have the best possible TR build and that the only scenario that can beat me in 1 vs 1's is someone outgearing me (if they use the same build as I do, or something very similiar to it). So, guess what I'm going to do? I'm going to try and outgear these people so that they won't be able to beat me either! Yes, hence the thread! *claps hands* Yay! My strategy will slightly change aswell with this new gear though, hence the careful consideration (trying to make a winning formula even better is hard, just look at Pokemon for example lol).
Speaking of which, it's about time that I stop posting here since I've reached a decision % that will suffice for me to make a choice. And the choice is....*drumrolls*....MA! *tadaaaa*! Just gonna use some lowbie enchants with it to start with, and if I feel that it hasn't improved my performance then it's oh well gg ~600k. An annoying loss for someone that gains so much AD by not losing amounts like that, but oh well. Seems that if I continue to post here in order to get to the bottom of it then I'm only going to get non related l2p answers by Damian who is obviously the best rogue in the world obviously. And I don't want to be tempted into telling him my grand design so yup, ciao!
My answer to Protip 1 was to convey that with my pvp set bonus and feats, my stealth will significantly last longer than yours. If you are too dense to understand that then I don't know what to say.
Also, you don't know how power scales in relation to damage compared to armor penetration and thinks that stacking power = more damage versus stacking armor penetration.
Please stop posting because you don't know anything when it comes to stats on a TR. What I find funny is your ignorance in this thread because you don't know what you're talking about and think you're actually right.
No I am not the best TR in the world but it helps to be geared and reaching the soft caps in important stats, saying otherwise is foolish.
So go ahead and stack power lol.
Protip 4=fail, real "pros" earn their dagger not buy it.
Protip 5=fail, since you can only max out at 25k glory, that'd be you saying you maxed out 40 times. Yeah right.
I've PvPed for 13+ hours a day ever since launch until a few days ago, at which I reached a point where I felt that I should start making use of my AD stack. It's very easy to cap glory every day when you do every arena bonus glory event btw + if your performance is good. And my performance is very good, even in games when grouped with incompetence (more points, more glory).
Now in the process of gearing up to top tier level - not quite there yet, but I'll get there. And I'll get there by earning it, not by spending money on zen. The term 'buy' in that sentence was the correct word to use - you don't say 'for when I earn the mh ancient dagger' lol.
@Cihard: Gotcha =P yeah I PvP much more than PvE though that might change in the future haha. Another reason why I felt that this was a hard choice - I guess I will just buy Swash when I find myself doing more PvE than PvP.
@Damian: I understood what you meant perfectly fine lmao. I am also well aware of the scaling and soft caps. Perhaps you need to do some math - 5x 260 from rank 9 dark enchantment = 1300. 2x 125 from pyro rings = 250 (1550). I have the option to get a belt which will have 133-154 ArP if I feel that 1550 is not quite enough yet.
I also stated that I have 1674 ArP atm and that upping it since ~1.6k has not made any difference for most of the fights that I fight in PvP (due to TR/CW being most popular). If I change my gear around while maintaining this amount of ArP then what is the problem? Did I not clearly state that I will use rank 9 dark enchantments to make up for the ArP loss by changing from the PvP set to MA?
i will CoS spam you while you're Cos spamming me! then i will shoot you with this ability while you shoot me with that ability! you're no match for me!!!
edit; more pvp happened in this thread than the actual game
BUT please give me the tip to earn million AD with doing PvP 13 hours per day since PvP does not reward anything worthy, pvp set is dirt cheap, and glory pet is not any better.
Yeah I agree, sorry lol I was just having some fun there. Anyways, if you get the top score you get a blue item as a reward. Most of them are vendor trash yes, but it's still 34 silver per blue. I suppose it adds up - along with the pvp gear. 300k AD a day was easily made doing this the first month - it's less now because the glory value is half of what it used to be.
Anyways, the real items to look out for are the blue belts. The best ones (smiting nef/lethal bers) went for up to 1m AD at times. They have an offense enchantment slot instead of a defence enchantment slot that all the epic belts have, which makes these belts the best in the game for dps classes - which also happen to be the most popular ones. So there ya have it, you just gotta be good and get lots of top scores and these items will pop up from time to time.
@ Carry: LOL XD
Says the guy who quit pvp because it was boring to carry a team full of scrubs just by CoS spamming while in stealth. :rolleyes:
Because I think you can save a lot of AD by using glory gear and then stack teneb enchantments. I just had a match where a CW cried that all I did was sit in stealth and spam CoS.
If you want to go with a pve set that is fine. In reality, you can just stack teneb enchantments because the procs hit like a truck. With the arm pen that I have from glory gear, I think I hit a lot harder than if I were to have T2 gear with rank 9 dark enchantments.
Stacking tenebrous will add a significant dps increase than the MA set. With 6x greater tenebrous + greater plague fire, just one hit can proc it 7 times and the plague fire dot can proc it some more. My health is at 25k due to the pvp gear and since I have 6 greater tenebrous, each proc is ~750 damage and since they all proc at once, the burst is insane.
I remember I got a guy that was at half health with one impact shot which crit for 8k, then the plague fire dot procced tenebrous which took him to 0. If you want to be OP, no matter what armor you decide to go on, just stack tenebrous echantments and put greater plague fire in your weapon slot.
Ohh fair enough, ehh I actually read a thread on these forums that explained why stacking tenebrous was a bad idea. I was going to do it but then read that, so I figured I'd just get 4 greaters and then fuse them into 1 perfect and just use that in my dagger offense slot haha. I've also seen a few comments that claimed tenebrous is an OP enchant though, and I guess you're saying so aswell. If these things were cheap to test then it'd be np, but alas - it is not cheap at all thanks to the price it costs to remove enchants lol.
The big difference that I see is that you miss out on quite a lot of stats if you go with the PvP set. Take a look at the PvP plate vs a T2 plate for example:
MA plate - 434 power/crit, 196 recov, 216 def, 196 life steal, 8 AC.
PvP plate - 672 max lp, 392 crit, 252 ArP, 205 def, 168 life steal, 7 AC.
So from the T2 plate you get a total of 1064 offensive stats - only 644 from the pvp set. I don't think the max lp stat benefits me either as a TR since we die pretty easily when not in stealth, unless using a def focused build but that's rare to see lol. Also note that the 2 set bonus from pvp is a defensive one (life steal), while you get +450 power from MA. I agree that the +20% stealth bonus is very useful, but you'd still be giving up 1450 offensive stats + an additional 1350 from the MA daily bonus.
The total amount of ArP that you get from the PvP set is 1008. If there is a way to replace that number without losing more than 1.5k stats while trying to do so then it'd be better to use the T2 set, no? For me atleast, that is - since I involve shadow strike in my build (stealth bar refill). You can get an ArP based amulet which will make you lose 80 offensive stats compared to AnF neck of revolt (+243 ArP). There's also an offense slot belt that gives 133 ArP. 250 ArP from the 2 rings. That's 626 ArP + filled with dark enchants = well over 1.7k if using rank 9 ones. Note that you only lose like 200 in max possible offense stats doing this.
This leaves you with 3 offense slots. Now the question is, what would be better in your opinion: +3 greater tenebrous enchants and 2.6k more offensive stats than the PvP set (1250 + 1350 from MA 4set/2.3k if Swash set), OR 6 greater tenebrous enchants minus the 2.6k more offensive stats/3x260 enchants but with +20% stealth bar?
Personally I was going for 1 perfect tenebrous, 1 perfect plaguefire, 1 greater soulforged, 1 rank 9 radiant and 5 rank 9 dark but I've just seen too many different opinions to come to a clear conclusion. I would be annoyed if there's no room for my radiant enchant at all because it took me a long time to get it lol. Not many people buy the rank 8+ enchants for a price that's higher than the costs that it took to make either
On a side note, seeing other top tier geared people use only 1 tenebrous enchant is part of what steered me towards the plan to only use 1 tenebrous enchant aswell.
There is no perfect tenebrous or plague fire, they stop at greater. The 6x greater tenebrous will give you more burst in pvp and I'll explain why.
Tenebrous has a cooldown of 5-6 seconds and they all proc at once. The reason why people don't use it for dungeons is that when you chain attack, you have to wait for it to proc again. Pvp is different as you kill enemies and cap points, stopping and going every so often without chain attacking nearly as much.
That's great because by the time you or your teammates killed an enemy player and they to try to backcap or retake points, the internal CD is off it's cooldown and so it will proc again with your next hit.
That right there makes tenebrous OP in pvp (with greater plague fire) since the dot can proc it as well. It doesn't matter how much mitigation or armor a person has, it will hit for exactly 3% of your total hit points. Stacking 6x greater tenebrous with my HP gets me 6-7 procs all at once with a guaranteed burst of ~4500-5250. Tenebrous nets me more burst compared to power it's not even funny.
You will at least get one hit in unless they dodged your first hit. What makes it so OP as well is because you can hit them once, they dodge/blink, and in the middle of the blink/dodge animation, tenebrous will still go off.
GPF with tenebrous is a deadly combination in pvp. There has been a couple of times where a player tried to get away with a sliver of health, mounted up, GPF dot procs tenebrous and then they're down.
The 20% stealth bonus from the pvp set is nice as well since it can be used offensively and defensively. When I'm attacking a point and a TR immediately stealths my CoS spam, I'm not worried because his won't last as long since most TRs run with pve sets and most likely our stealth will end at the same time.
If I'm defending a point and a TR gets the jump on me, I stealth and then wait for him to come out of it and then put on the pressure.
And yeah, the Tenebrous thread was about the internal CD if i recall correctly. Thing is, I dont want to focus purely on PvP, and if I were to go with the tenebrous enchants it'd mean I would pretty much need a whole new gear set for PvE aswell. I'm kinda trying to go for something where I get the best of both worlds, if you know what I mean. Not at the stage where I have 70m+ AD to spend yet and idk if I'll ever even get to that point haha.
I guess that this brings Swash back into the picture (sigh) because as said in the thread earlier, it's great for PvE and wouldn't be that bad for PvP either. Would my enchant layout that I mentioned in my previous post be the best thing to go with for both PvP and PvE related content, or would you suggest something else?
Yea, go with with the Swash set with 3x greater tenebrous layout. You're still going to burst in pvp due to tenebrous procs and you will do great in pve as well.