thorsonwongMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 20Arc User
edited June 2013
All right, guys, thanks for all the information and tips. Currently, I have my GWF at level 17, and though he's nowhere as entertaining as the CW, or as damaging as the TR, I still quite enjoy the class. Not expecting to get many dungeons in the endgame, though, since the CW seems to do the GWF's job better than the GWF (assuming that it's job is actually AoE add management). Hopefully one day they'll boost the GWF somehow, perhaps by boosting its DPS and lowering that of the CW's so that the CW is more CC, and the GWF is more AoE DPS/Burst DPS as it was probably intended.
I don't know if OPs can lock posts, but I'll leave this one open, should any of you guys/gals have any discussions you wish to have. I see that there are a few going on, so for their sake, I'll leave this open. That, and I have no idea how one could even lock a thread. :P
Time is like new-fallen snow, it is precious.
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mkretributionMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 11Arc User
edited June 2013
Got a Full Avatar set (best dps gear for GWF) + ancient sword + ancient knot + stats pet with full rank 7 runes in each slots + all BiS items.... still comming 3rd in dps after respecing 4 times ... I rolled a TR and im toping dps in every dung without perfect items (still got a full swash set though ). Your gonna cry tears of blood in t2 trust me . I lived in denial and tried to perfect my gear/rotation , but gwf is just plain useless for any group , it can't tank , can't dps well... just useless... U better role any other classes , even a GF is better in PvP
It's because 'properly played CW' is probably a code word for the type of CW that locks the GWF out of being useful. Of course they beat a GWF in that scenario, the GWF can't focus multiple add's with slam or any of their AoE as the add's are thrown everywhere. So yes, of course in this scenario the CW wins. The GWF still does far more with Arcane Singularity than the CW can if it's done 'right'.
CW don't even need to do it in such a way that it screws the GWF, but it's harder for them to execute the rotation taking the GWF into account even though it's more damage overall for the group.
First of all, assuming what you are saying is true, which it isn't by a stretch, you're asking a CW to play in manner that completely gimps his contribution to the party in a way that a GWF AoE can't do, all just so your GWF would look good on the score card?? That's a pretty pathetic argument. And if that's so, don't QQ on the playstyle of a CW, go complain to Cryptic with their class design.
Two, a properly played CW, and I really feel you haven't experienced one yet, rotates his powers with good timing in mind. Of course it doesn't always happen as intended, but in most cases it does. Shield Knockback is used to regenerate AP, which in turn leads to more Singularities that you GWFs love anyways, AND does a ton of damage. Its timing should be right after the Singularity is up. That way, the mobs get knockedback then immediately sucked right back into the singularity. So if in that split second, your GWF's performance is getting destroyed, then you need to put the blame on someone else. Another use of the knockback is to give breathing room for the entire party when things are getting dicey, and they sometimes do. Your GWF is not going to help any bad situation by swinging at a bunch of mobs when astral shield gets dispelled, or if someone is down and needs a revive.
Are there CWs that randomly knockback for no apparent reason? sure. But don't judge everyone that plays the class based on your bad experiences, or is it that you are just trying to find all the excuses that justifies the current situation of GWFs and denying the fact that the class just basically needs an overhaul?
The GWF needs several fixes, and NON of which is about changing the class mechanics of CWs.
CW don't even need to do it in such a way that it screws the GWF, but it's harder for them to execute the rotation taking the GWF into account even though it's more damage overall for the group.
The part in bold is what I said. I agree with you, but CW that ignore the entire party with badly done knock backs are a detriment to the entire team. A good CW is a GWF's best friend.
MoF/Thaum CWSS/Thaum CWIV/Protector GFSW/Combat HRSM/Destroyer GWFWK/Executioner TRDO/Faithful DC
First of all, assuming what you are saying is true, which it isn't by a stretch, you're asking a CW to play in manner that completely gimps his contribution to the party in a way that a GWF AoE can't do, all just so your GWF would look good on the score card?? That's a pretty pathetic argument. And if that's so, don't QQ on the playstyle of a CW, go complain to Cryptic with their class design.
So a GWF hits slam then goes into Unstoppable tearing up a group of mobs and you think that a CW that pushes all those mobs away is the best contribution. And if the CW didn't do that his toon would be gimp? I have experienced that myself usually by lower level players but it happens.
Two, a properly played CW, and I really feel you haven't experienced one yet, rotates his powers with good timing in mind. Of course it doesn't always happen as intended, but in most cases it does. Shield Knockback is used to regenerate AP, which in turn leads to more Singularities that you GWFs love anyways, AND does a ton of damage. Its timing should be right after the Singularity is up. That way, the mobs get knockedback then immediately sucked right back into the singularity. So if in that split second, your GWF's performance is getting destroyed, then you need to put the blame on someone else. Another use of the knockback is to give breathing room for the entire party when things are getting dicey, and they sometimes do. Your GWF is not going to help any bad situation by swinging at a bunch of mobs when astral shield gets dispelled, or if someone is down and needs a revive.
This is not the type of gameplay he is referring to. Read above.
Are there CWs that randomly knockback for no apparent reason? sure. But don't judge everyone that plays the class based on your bad experiences, or is it that you are just trying to find all the excuses that justifies the current situation of GWFs and denying the fact that the class just basically needs an overhaul?
The GWF needs several fixes, and NON of which is about changing the class mechanics of CWs.
I do not believe he is referring to all CW's despite your defensive retorts. He gave an example of what a CW could do to minimize the GWF effectiveness. It does happen. I have experienced it. In most circumstances it is by low level players that just got a shiny new skill and learning how to apply it.
But what I have seen in this thread are the GWF haters that love to search these posts out looking to say how they can not get into groups. Which is true but serves no purpose for what the op originally asked. Seriously guys just start up another GWF thread, why wait for a GWF discussion pops up. You could be starting 5 or 6 more threads in the time it took you to read this post.
But what I have seen in this thread are the GWF haters that love to search these posts out looking to say how they can not get into groups. Which is true but serves no purpose for what the op originally asked. Seriously guys just start up another GWF thread, why wait for a GWF discussion pops up. You could be starting 5 or 6 more threads in the time it took you to read this post.
I disagree. I think it does serve a purpose. When there is a legitimate complaint with regards to the mechanic of not only some powers/feats but an entire class, we have an obligation to push the devs to action. Plus it is not like people Hijacked the thread or derailed it. The OP specifically asked if people thought GWFs were bad. What do you want people to say? Lie and have him waste his time and still come to the same conclusion at the end? And what "Haters" are you referring to? I think EVERY person who has complaints about GWFs, myself included, want to play GWFs. They like the class, they probably even played it in closed Beta before the huge nerf, and they want something done about it.
I disagree. I think it does serve a purpose. When there is a legitimate complaint with regards to the mechanic of not only some powers/feats but an entire class, we have an obligation to push the devs to action. Plus it is not like people Hijacked the thread or derailed it. The OP specifically asked if people thought GWFs were bad. What do you want people to say? Lie and have him waste his time and still come to the same conclusion at the end? And what "Haters" are you referring to? I think EVERY person who has complaints about GWFs, myself included, want to play GWFs. They like the class, they probably even played it in closed Beta before the huge nerf, and they want something done about it.
Too bad I can't look at the closed threads. It was probably an entire different discussion on how GWF was op. So I imagine the devs are shaking their head at this point trying to find a solution to such a finicky crowd. If you want to play GWF do so. It doesn't prevent you from playing any of the other classes. I plan on having one of each so I can jump to the next one as soon as the MMO crowd gets their wishes for a bump or a nerf.
There is no lie about saying the class is not as bad as people make it out to be. It excels in AOE damage. It is a very strong class if played correctly. Someday you may find that out.
Too bad I can't look at the closed threads. It was probably an entire different discussion on how GWF was op. So I imagine the devs are shaking their head at this point trying to find a solution to such a finicky crowd. If you want to play GWF do so. It doesn't prevent you from playing any of the other classes. I plan on having one of each so I can jump to the next one as soon as the MMO crowd gets their wishes for a bump or a nerf.
There is no lie about saying the class is not as bad as people make it out to be. It excels in AOE damage. It is a very strong class if played correctly. Someday you may find that out.
You're right. GWFs are so OP and they are being shunned in parties because they make everyone else look bad in comparison. You are one of the rare few who found the secret to unlocking this beastly class. To the OP, more power to you. Get your GWF to 60 and be the envy of everyone as you are begged to join T2s to contribute what no other class can. We're just very negative people who don't have the mental capacity to criticize or find fault in what the gods (I mean Devs) create. Because we all know, all classes in every MMO that was ever created were initially balanced from the beginning, and it's just whiners and QQrs like us who ruin the game.
There, more in line with your thought process?
You're right. GWFs are so OP and they are being shunned in parties because they make everyone else look bad in comparison. You are one of the rare few who found the secret to unlocking this beastly class. To the OP, more power to you. Get your GWF to 60 and be the envy of everyone as you are begged to join T2s to contribute what no other class can. We're just very negative people who don't have the mental capacity to criticize or find fault in what the gods (I mean Devs) create. Because we all know, all classes in every MMO that was ever created were initially balanced from the beginning, and it's just whiners and QQrs like us who ruin the game.
There, more in line with your thought process?
So... who cares about AOE damage? Every class can completely annihilate the basic trash, and the badasses have way too many hitpoints for GWF to kill before they annoy your cleric or wizard enough for them to take action. During my last skirmish I came in first place for enemies slain, and second to last for actual damage inflicted; GWF is a bully that beats up the little guys. I also had to guzzle health potions like crazy because sprint wasn't getting me out of the boss's black-hole-AOE effect before it went off and it did like 15K damage per hit. It's a good thing I'm wearing armor made of leaves and cheap cloth and can't run away, because if I had good armor and defense then the health potion industry would collapse.
Ridiculous game design exacerbated by ridiculous play balance.
I'm starting to become convinced that the GWF apologists are trolls. If you have played any other class, you know that GWF is underpowered, period. If you have run dungeons, you know that GWF is underpowered, period. If you have done PvP, you know that GWF is underpowered, period. You can gear up and min-max your build to your heart's content, but GWF just has lower utility than CW/DC/TR.
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tyr216Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I'm starting to become convinced that the GWF apologists are trolls. If you have played any other class, you know that GWF is underpowered, period. If you have run dungeons, you know that GWF is underpowered, period. If you have done PvP, you know that GWF is underpowered, period. You can gear up and min-max your build to your heart's content, but GWF just has lower utility than CW/DC/TR.
I'm glad I came here to these forums to confirm what I was already feeling. I only play warrior classes in every RPG game and just starting out as a GWF in this game has been tough in the sense that I'm unable to kill mobs faster than they kill me alot of the times while leveling. And I know how to evade incoming attacks. I play other action oriented games like GW2 and TERA. I love my Slayer over in TERA. It plays the way the GWF here should play: carving through large groups, barely taking any damage because everything dies fast enough. I've never had to run for my life before lvl 20.
At first, I thought Neverwinter was just that much harder until I observed the other classes absolutely destroying the same mobs out in the field. That's what my GWF should be doing. The archetype should be one of the more powerful classes in the game. Instead it's the absolute weakest. People are saying it doesn't get any better at max level? That's disheartening. I really want to like this game, but the only class I'm interested in playing seems to need some serious work.
I'm starting to become convinced that the GWF apologists are trolls. If you have played any other class, you know that GWF is underpowered, period. If you have run dungeons, you know that GWF is underpowered, period. If you have done PvP, you know that GWF is underpowered, period. You can gear up and min-max your build to your heart's content, but GWF just has lower utility than CW/DC/TR.
Lol, only GF's and GWF's can give my CW problems in PvP solo. Though GWF's are the worst as unstoppable trumps control powers (nearly always). However both classes can stunlock you and have you quite dead before you can manage to pick yourself up again.
That said I have played every class and 5 of them to 60. Hardest to quest with solo? TR (no good AoE without minimizing single target power). Easiest to quest solo with? CW (Control wins, especially when combined with AoE). Most painful to quest solo with? DC. GWF falls into the middle, it's not hard to solo with at all though it's not quite the breeze of the CW and it is not the most painful to solo quest with either (2nd least probably).
And for PvP my TR at least is very very squishy as is my CW, both fall fast to any onslaught (Both in PvP gear). My DC is also rather squishy especially to enfeebling CW's (though against a weakly geared team I seem a brick wall). On the other hand my GWF and GF both don't really care too much about other 1v1. It takes multiple people pounding on me for me to die and I will take out some of them unless stunlocked or knocked away.
That said I've mentioned several times some simple tweaks to a few AoE powers of the GWF that would improve our utility as intended. If any class is not working as intended it's CW, which is meant to gather mobs together to be dealt with (by a GWF/GF or another CW). But instead we now have gather and knockback rotations that just leave mobs all over the place.
GWF isn't as "bad" as people make it out to be. But yeah there's a higher learning curve when playing GWF. You need to be a really good player to play GWF well. Plus there's a very distinct way of building your equipment, powers and feats for GWF (you can't just throw a bunch of abilities together, wear anything and expect it to work). I know I've blown probably 300K AD experimenting with equipment combinations. GWF is welcome in a party if you know your class well. I've done almost every T2 dungeon except Castle Never (I suspect I never will unless they fix the double AS stacking issue).
Note: This is not to say GWF don't have issues. We have big issues in terms of some of our skills having no synergy with the feats and a bunch of power issues (Sure Strike, Reaping Strike). Very limited CC abilities. Low survival issue if you spec all damage.
I play a CW, TR, and GWF. All three equally geared and by far the GWF has been the hardest to level. Damage is low and swings are slow. I just get beat to a pulp constantly.
So... who cares about AOE damage? Every class can completely annihilate the basic trash, and the badasses have way too many hitpoints for GWF to kill before they annoy your cleric or wizard enough for them to take action. During my last skirmish I came in first place for enemies slain, and second to last for actual damage inflicted; GWF is a bully that beats up the little guys. I also had to guzzle health potions like crazy because sprint wasn't getting me out of the boss's black-hole-AOE effect before it went off and it did like 15K damage per hit. It's a good thing I'm wearing armor made of leaves and cheap cloth and can't run away, because if I had good armor and defense then the health potion industry would collapse.
Ridiculous game design exacerbated by ridiculous play balance.
This is true, I agree with every single word.
GWF is fine leveling, but now on 60 I can sympathize with people kicking my class from groups. Its just subpar, everything we do other classes do way better; it CAN work yeah, but you need to be carried. There, I said it.
Remember paladins at vanilla wow? Take out their heals and tankage and you have GWF. Yeah, its this bad.
I doubt someone tested this class before releasing it like this.
Also, we just dont work as a class cause our main asset, AOE, is far far worse than pushbacks; no group is going to setup the mobs tight together cause of you sucker, when they can just thrown things out of the windows. And I cant see this getting fixed anytime soon, unless they revamp ALL dungeons to put invisible walls everywhere (yeah, not going to happen)
I say erase this AOE fail concept all together and give us decent single target tools. Easiest, cheapest and fastest solution for this class.
And dont be delusional about pvp vids you come across on this forums, killing a fresh 60 in greens with our 3 encounter rotation (if everything crits, if not you will need a daily as well) is no sign that you are some pvp god or the class is fine. Watch those vids just for entertainment purposes.
Basically all we do there is running from clerics and gfs, and try to gank some half hp rogue.
Makes me wonder if Crpytic even thinks before they patch, GWF was a powerful class then they nerfed his damage to the ground at least by 60% which is the problem. Playing GWF usually gets expensive because he uses the most potions, he's not dealing enough damage to kill the mobs fast enough so they get weld-on.
Rogues can hit so hard with a dagger yet a 2handed sword will only do 1/4 as much. This is the weakest 2handed sword warrior I've ever palyed in any MMO...ever and it's my pefered class to play if they have it availble.
If I can make a suggestion to Cryptic I would suggest they undo the nerf or make it to where a GWF can do about 80% of a TR total dps, cause as of now there's so many that are disappointed with GWF as of now.
Seriously what were you thinking Cryptic?!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] "A sin is a terrible burden to bare, Remdemption is the only solution."
The very fact people are claiming that the class should be erased and respec's given to everyone that plays it means that the class is most certainly not that bad. I did T2 dungeons all day yesterday, and while those dungeons are certainly tougher than T1 they are very doable.
If you find it easier to do them on other classes, I submit that you should stick to those 'other classes' that are so incredibly overpowered in your view. Obviously you are a better player on those classes.
I think people got really used to skipping almost the entire dungeon and then when they hit the end boss with a team that's skipped everything they find out their team is terrible. Huge surprise there.
And no, I'm not claiming T2 is easy I'm saying it's doable. It's doable with a GWF too, so whatever. Pretty much everyone I teamed with yesterday seemed shocked that a GWF was useful, but hey live and learn.
MoF/Thaum CWSS/Thaum CWIV/Protector GFSW/Combat HRSM/Destroyer GWFWK/Executioner TRDO/Faithful DC
for someone who usually plays ranged DPS or Healing/Support classes I love my GWF.
I try not to stress too much on numbers but still look at them and skills etc, to improve for next time. I won't let others ruin my fun.
I played a DC and tried CW and have messed around with race, feats & powers for GWF before settling on my current char. a lvl 45 GWF. I love it, it is the most fun I have ever had in attempting to lvl a melee DPS. do we need improvements in areas sure I am not blind...but I don't believe the class is broken either. I think most of the 60s have settled on a way to make epic dungeons easy rather then treating them in their head like small raids and striving to succeed at it.
it is a tough class to lvl at times a cleric companion will help you out though....don't let anyone tell you not to play one only you can decide if you like it
And dont be delusional about pvp vids you come across on this forums, killing a fresh 60 in greens with our 3 encounter rotation (if everything crits, if not you will need a daily as well) is no sign that you are some pvp god or the class is fine. Watch those vids just for entertainment purposes.
Basically all we do there is running from clerics and gfs, and try to gank some half hp rogue.
The very fact people are claiming that the class should be erased and respec's given to everyone that plays it means that the class is most certainly not that bad. I did T2 dungeons all day yesterday, and while those dungeons are certainly tougher than T1 they are very doable.
If you find it easier to do them on other classes, I submit that you should stick to those 'other classes' that are so incredibly overpowered in your view. Obviously you are a better player on those classes.
I think people got really used to skipping almost the entire dungeon and then when they hit the end boss with a team that's skipped everything they find out their team is terrible. Huge surprise there.
And no, I'm not claiming T2 is easy I'm saying it's doable. It's doable with a GWF too, so whatever. Pretty much everyone I teamed with yesterday seemed shocked that a GWF was useful, but hey live and learn.
I don't think anyone is arguing that it's impossible to do a T2 dungeon as a GWF (provided you have other classes in your party). What people are saying is that they're the least useful class.
I don't think anyone is arguing that it's impossible to do a T2 dungeon as a GWF (provided you have other classes in your party). What people are saying is that they're the least useful class.
No, people are quite definitely saying that it's 'impossible to do T2' with GWF. Those are more ignorant ones, of course, but they're saying it. If CW actually does more damage than a GWF in an AoE it might be true, but they either don't or I haven't played with one of these mystical high-damage CW's. Sure there have been CW that came in 3rd, but I routinely out DPS even better geared CW.
I think the real reason no one wants a GWF is because they want the second cleric for stacking AS and that means one other class is going to lose out. Honestly, the best teams I've had so far were 2 DC, 1 CW, 1 GF, and my GWF. All together we do about the single-target damage of a rogue, and if you keep the add's in the burn pile they die along with everything else. Of course in dungeons like Frost Heart the Cleric is going to be kiting, not sure how you're supposed to burn down those frost giant add's in a timely fashion. Even then, I won't claim it's faster than having a rogue, but honestly finding a TR that doesn't constantly get one shot in T2 seems tough.
If your team is good enough, any combination probably works. I'm over it, if people want to complain in the hopes it get's bumped great. More power to my GWF will be fine with me, especially since I'm already doing the content now.
MoF/Thaum CWSS/Thaum CWIV/Protector GFSW/Combat HRSM/Destroyer GWFWK/Executioner TRDO/Faithful DC
make it to where a GWF can do about 80% of a TR total dps
No.
Great weapon fighter should be the highest damaging class in the game. Period. Why? Because that's all he does. The Rogue has stealth, and abilities that can confuse the enemy and that sort of the thing. Expand on that. The Rogue shouldn't be about damage, he should be about confusing, debuffing, slowing, crippling. Fighting dirty. Also combat engineering: Smoke bombs, oil flasks, caltrops. Where the wizard is more about actively controlling groups, the Rogue should be about shaping the battlefield and removing specific enemies as threats by denying them focus, movement, and their best attacks. And, naturally, these things need to work on bosses too. Not saying Rogues shouldn't be able to "do damage". A well placed dagger strike can kill just fine, if you get the opportunity. I'm all for leaving them encounters or charged at-wills that do crazy damage on a flank attack, which is how Rogues operate. But people with actual military weapons should not be even remotely challenged in raw damage output in face to face combat by a dagger.
Great weapon fighter should be the highest damaging class in the game. Period. Why? Because that's all he does. The Rogue has stealth, and abilities that can confuse the enemy and that sort of the thing. Expand on that. The Rogue shouldn't be about damage, he should be about confusing, debuffing, slowing, crippling. Fighting dirty. Also combat engineering: Smoke bombs, oil flasks, caltrops. Where the wizard is more about actively controlling groups, the Rogue should be about shaping the battlefield and removing specific enemies as threats by denying them focus, movement, and their best attacks. And, naturally, these things need to work on bosses too. Not saying Rogues shouldn't be able to "do damage". A well placed dagger strike can kill just fine, if you get the opportunity. I'm all for leaving them encounters or charged at-wills that do crazy damage on a flank attack, which is how Rogues operate. But people with actual military weapons should not be even remotely challenged in raw damage output in face to face combat by a dagger.
And it's this precise attitude that leads people to say it's underpowered and performing badly. They expected to be #1 damage and are angry that they are not. (Although in T2 dungeons like Pirates you should be #1, even if your CW is knocking add's off bridges. Haven't been beaten in Pirates yet in DPS even by skilled Rogues.)
MoF/Thaum CWSS/Thaum CWIV/Protector GFSW/Combat HRSM/Destroyer GWFWK/Executioner TRDO/Faithful DC
Great weapon fighter should be the highest damaging class in the game. Period. Why? Because that's all he does. The Rogue has stealth, and abilities that can confuse the enemy and that sort of the thing. Expand on that. The Rogue shouldn't be about damage, he should be about confusing, debuffing, slowing, crippling. Fighting dirty. Also combat engineering: Smoke bombs, oil flasks, caltrops. Where the wizard is more about actively controlling groups, the Rogue should be about shaping the battlefield and removing specific enemies as threats by denying them focus, movement, and their best attacks. And, naturally, these things need to work on bosses too. Not saying Rogues shouldn't be able to "do damage". A well placed dagger strike can kill just fine, if you get the opportunity. I'm all for leaving them encounters or charged at-wills that do crazy damage on a flank attack, which is how Rogues operate. But people with actual military weapons should not be even remotely challenged in raw damage output in face to face combat by a dagger.
um no, just no, rogues are meant for single target dps along with their CCs that makes them annoying
No, people are quite definitely saying that it's 'impossible to do T2' with GWF. Those are more ignorant ones, of course, but they're saying it. If CW actually does more damage than a GWF in an AoE it might be true, but they either don't or I haven't played with one of these mystical high-damage CW's. Sure there have been CW that came in 3rd, but I routinely out DPS even better geared CW.
I think the real reason no one wants a GWF is because they want the second cleric for stacking AS and that means one other class is going to lose out. Honestly, the best teams I've had so far were 2 DC, 1 CW, 1 GF, and my GWF. All together we do about the single-target damage of a rogue, and if you keep the add's in the burn pile they die along with everything else. Of course in dungeons like Frost Heart the Cleric is going to be kiting, not sure how you're supposed to burn down those frost giant add's in a timely fashion. Even then, I won't claim it's faster than having a rogue, but honestly finding a TR that doesn't constantly get one shot in T2 seems tough.
If your team is good enough, any combination probably works. I'm over it, if people want to complain in the hopes it get's bumped great. More power to my GWF will be fine with me, especially since I'm already doing the content now.
Yes people are saying GWF are useless, and yes it is doable
And it's this precise attitude that leads people to say it's underpowered and performing badly. They expected to be #1 damage and are angry that they are not. (Although in T2 dungeons like Pirates you should be #1, even if your CW is knocking add's off bridges. Haven't been beaten in Pirates yet in DPS even by skilled Rogues.)
That was a description of how the game SHOULD have been designed.
Gods only know what people think the current GWF should be best at.
Comments
I don't know if OPs can lock posts, but I'll leave this one open, should any of you guys/gals have any discussions you wish to have. I see that there are a few going on, so for their sake, I'll leave this open. That, and I have no idea how one could even lock a thread. :P
First of all, assuming what you are saying is true, which it isn't by a stretch, you're asking a CW to play in manner that completely gimps his contribution to the party in a way that a GWF AoE can't do, all just so your GWF would look good on the score card?? That's a pretty pathetic argument. And if that's so, don't QQ on the playstyle of a CW, go complain to Cryptic with their class design.
Two, a properly played CW, and I really feel you haven't experienced one yet, rotates his powers with good timing in mind. Of course it doesn't always happen as intended, but in most cases it does. Shield Knockback is used to regenerate AP, which in turn leads to more Singularities that you GWFs love anyways, AND does a ton of damage. Its timing should be right after the Singularity is up. That way, the mobs get knockedback then immediately sucked right back into the singularity. So if in that split second, your GWF's performance is getting destroyed, then you need to put the blame on someone else. Another use of the knockback is to give breathing room for the entire party when things are getting dicey, and they sometimes do. Your GWF is not going to help any bad situation by swinging at a bunch of mobs when astral shield gets dispelled, or if someone is down and needs a revive.
Are there CWs that randomly knockback for no apparent reason? sure. But don't judge everyone that plays the class based on your bad experiences, or is it that you are just trying to find all the excuses that justifies the current situation of GWFs and denying the fact that the class just basically needs an overhaul?
The GWF needs several fixes, and NON of which is about changing the class mechanics of CWs.
The part in bold is what I said. I agree with you, but CW that ignore the entire party with badly done knock backs are a detriment to the entire team. A good CW is a GWF's best friend.
So a GWF hits slam then goes into Unstoppable tearing up a group of mobs and you think that a CW that pushes all those mobs away is the best contribution. And if the CW didn't do that his toon would be gimp? I have experienced that myself usually by lower level players but it happens.
This is not the type of gameplay he is referring to. Read above.
I do not believe he is referring to all CW's despite your defensive retorts. He gave an example of what a CW could do to minimize the GWF effectiveness. It does happen. I have experienced it. In most circumstances it is by low level players that just got a shiny new skill and learning how to apply it.
But what I have seen in this thread are the GWF haters that love to search these posts out looking to say how they can not get into groups. Which is true but serves no purpose for what the op originally asked. Seriously guys just start up another GWF thread, why wait for a GWF discussion pops up. You could be starting 5 or 6 more threads in the time it took you to read this post.
I disagree. I think it does serve a purpose. When there is a legitimate complaint with regards to the mechanic of not only some powers/feats but an entire class, we have an obligation to push the devs to action. Plus it is not like people Hijacked the thread or derailed it. The OP specifically asked if people thought GWFs were bad. What do you want people to say? Lie and have him waste his time and still come to the same conclusion at the end? And what "Haters" are you referring to? I think EVERY person who has complaints about GWFs, myself included, want to play GWFs. They like the class, they probably even played it in closed Beta before the huge nerf, and they want something done about it.
Too bad I can't look at the closed threads. It was probably an entire different discussion on how GWF was op. So I imagine the devs are shaking their head at this point trying to find a solution to such a finicky crowd. If you want to play GWF do so. It doesn't prevent you from playing any of the other classes. I plan on having one of each so I can jump to the next one as soon as the MMO crowd gets their wishes for a bump or a nerf.
There is no lie about saying the class is not as bad as people make it out to be. It excels in AOE damage. It is a very strong class if played correctly. Someday you may find that out.
You're right. GWFs are so OP and they are being shunned in parties because they make everyone else look bad in comparison. You are one of the rare few who found the secret to unlocking this beastly class. To the OP, more power to you. Get your GWF to 60 and be the envy of everyone as you are begged to join T2s to contribute what no other class can. We're just very negative people who don't have the mental capacity to criticize or find fault in what the gods (I mean Devs) create. Because we all know, all classes in every MMO that was ever created were initially balanced from the beginning, and it's just whiners and QQrs like us who ruin the game.
There, more in line with your thought process?
Reading comprehension is not your strong suit.
Ridiculous game design exacerbated by ridiculous play balance.
I'm glad I came here to these forums to confirm what I was already feeling. I only play warrior classes in every RPG game and just starting out as a GWF in this game has been tough in the sense that I'm unable to kill mobs faster than they kill me alot of the times while leveling. And I know how to evade incoming attacks. I play other action oriented games like GW2 and TERA. I love my Slayer over in TERA. It plays the way the GWF here should play: carving through large groups, barely taking any damage because everything dies fast enough. I've never had to run for my life before lvl 20.
At first, I thought Neverwinter was just that much harder until I observed the other classes absolutely destroying the same mobs out in the field. That's what my GWF should be doing. The archetype should be one of the more powerful classes in the game. Instead it's the absolute weakest. People are saying it doesn't get any better at max level? That's disheartening. I really want to like this game, but the only class I'm interested in playing seems to need some serious work.
Lol, only GF's and GWF's can give my CW problems in PvP solo. Though GWF's are the worst as unstoppable trumps control powers (nearly always). However both classes can stunlock you and have you quite dead before you can manage to pick yourself up again.
That said I have played every class and 5 of them to 60. Hardest to quest with solo? TR (no good AoE without minimizing single target power). Easiest to quest solo with? CW (Control wins, especially when combined with AoE). Most painful to quest solo with? DC. GWF falls into the middle, it's not hard to solo with at all though it's not quite the breeze of the CW and it is not the most painful to solo quest with either (2nd least probably).
And for PvP my TR at least is very very squishy as is my CW, both fall fast to any onslaught (Both in PvP gear). My DC is also rather squishy especially to enfeebling CW's (though against a weakly geared team I seem a brick wall). On the other hand my GWF and GF both don't really care too much about other 1v1. It takes multiple people pounding on me for me to die and I will take out some of them unless stunlocked or knocked away.
That said I've mentioned several times some simple tweaks to a few AoE powers of the GWF that would improve our utility as intended. If any class is not working as intended it's CW, which is meant to gather mobs together to be dealt with (by a GWF/GF or another CW). But instead we now have gather and knockback rotations that just leave mobs all over the place.
Note: This is not to say GWF don't have issues. We have big issues in terms of some of our skills having no synergy with the feats and a bunch of power issues (Sure Strike, Reaping Strike). Very limited CC abilities. Low survival issue if you spec all damage.
This is true, I agree with every single word.
GWF is fine leveling, but now on 60 I can sympathize with people kicking my class from groups. Its just subpar, everything we do other classes do way better; it CAN work yeah, but you need to be carried. There, I said it.
Remember paladins at vanilla wow? Take out their heals and tankage and you have GWF. Yeah, its this bad.
I doubt someone tested this class before releasing it like this.
I say erase this AOE fail concept all together and give us decent single target tools. Easiest, cheapest and fastest solution for this class.
Basically all we do there is running from clerics and gfs, and try to gank some half hp rogue.
Rogues can hit so hard with a dagger yet a 2handed sword will only do 1/4 as much. This is the weakest 2handed sword warrior I've ever palyed in any MMO...ever and it's my pefered class to play if they have it availble.
If I can make a suggestion to Cryptic I would suggest they undo the nerf or make it to where a GWF can do about 80% of a TR total dps, cause as of now there's so many that are disappointed with GWF as of now.
Seriously what were you thinking Cryptic?!
"A sin is a terrible burden to bare, Remdemption is the only solution."
If you find it easier to do them on other classes, I submit that you should stick to those 'other classes' that are so incredibly overpowered in your view. Obviously you are a better player on those classes.
I think people got really used to skipping almost the entire dungeon and then when they hit the end boss with a team that's skipped everything they find out their team is terrible. Huge surprise there.
And no, I'm not claiming T2 is easy I'm saying it's doable. It's doable with a GWF too, so whatever. Pretty much everyone I teamed with yesterday seemed shocked that a GWF was useful, but hey live and learn.
I try not to stress too much on numbers but still look at them and skills etc, to improve for next time. I won't let others ruin my fun.
I played a DC and tried CW and have messed around with race, feats & powers for GWF before settling on my current char. a lvl 45 GWF. I love it, it is the most fun I have ever had in attempting to lvl a melee DPS. do we need improvements in areas sure I am not blind...but I don't believe the class is broken either. I think most of the 60s have settled on a way to make epic dungeons easy rather then treating them in their head like small raids and striving to succeed at it.
it is a tough class to lvl at times a cleric companion will help you out though....don't let anyone tell you not to play one only you can decide if you like it
Character handle:@skylia120410
(www.gwfnw.weebly.com)
GWF GUIDE SITE: Still being worked on not 60 yet
Divine Misfits (one of the Guild Leaders)(Guild Site Manager)
www.divinemisfits.guildlaunch.com
You just don't get it. Look at this GWF owning in PvP: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2osZ7bI9TDw
The TR is down to, at most, 90% of his HP by the time he kills the GWF.
I don't think anyone is arguing that it's impossible to do a T2 dungeon as a GWF (provided you have other classes in your party). What people are saying is that they're the least useful class.
No, people are quite definitely saying that it's 'impossible to do T2' with GWF. Those are more ignorant ones, of course, but they're saying it. If CW actually does more damage than a GWF in an AoE it might be true, but they either don't or I haven't played with one of these mystical high-damage CW's. Sure there have been CW that came in 3rd, but I routinely out DPS even better geared CW.
I think the real reason no one wants a GWF is because they want the second cleric for stacking AS and that means one other class is going to lose out. Honestly, the best teams I've had so far were 2 DC, 1 CW, 1 GF, and my GWF. All together we do about the single-target damage of a rogue, and if you keep the add's in the burn pile they die along with everything else. Of course in dungeons like Frost Heart the Cleric is going to be kiting, not sure how you're supposed to burn down those frost giant add's in a timely fashion. Even then, I won't claim it's faster than having a rogue, but honestly finding a TR that doesn't constantly get one shot in T2 seems tough.
If your team is good enough, any combination probably works. I'm over it, if people want to complain in the hopes it get's bumped great. More power to my GWF will be fine with me, especially since I'm already doing the content now.
No.
Great weapon fighter should be the highest damaging class in the game. Period. Why? Because that's all he does. The Rogue has stealth, and abilities that can confuse the enemy and that sort of the thing. Expand on that. The Rogue shouldn't be about damage, he should be about confusing, debuffing, slowing, crippling. Fighting dirty. Also combat engineering: Smoke bombs, oil flasks, caltrops. Where the wizard is more about actively controlling groups, the Rogue should be about shaping the battlefield and removing specific enemies as threats by denying them focus, movement, and their best attacks. And, naturally, these things need to work on bosses too. Not saying Rogues shouldn't be able to "do damage". A well placed dagger strike can kill just fine, if you get the opportunity. I'm all for leaving them encounters or charged at-wills that do crazy damage on a flank attack, which is how Rogues operate. But people with actual military weapons should not be even remotely challenged in raw damage output in face to face combat by a dagger.
And it's this precise attitude that leads people to say it's underpowered and performing badly. They expected to be #1 damage and are angry that they are not. (Although in T2 dungeons like Pirates you should be #1, even if your CW is knocking add's off bridges. Haven't been beaten in Pirates yet in DPS even by skilled Rogues.)
um no, just no, rogues are meant for single target dps along with their CCs that makes them annoying
Yes people are saying GWF are useless, and yes it is doable
That was a description of how the game SHOULD have been designed.
Gods only know what people think the current GWF should be best at.