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Why does our society believe words are more important than actions?
krioma
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 6 Arc User
This is in all parts of life, work, culture, and media (including gaming). I would say I am confused 
, but I don't think I am...unfortunately.
Exhibit A -
Domination PVP Battle is about 7 minutes in, and despite us being one man short due to there being 1 AFKer on our team (who I eventually booted when they would not respond or move from base for 2 straight minutes), we are actually doing decent vs our opponents and holding a good fight at point 2.
Almost dead, I promptly hop on my horse and begin to head for our sides health potion, and here are the events that took place:
So my question here is simple: "Why is it that words count so much more than actions?"
I am perfectly capable in believing that what I said to him could generate a suspension or at very least a warning, yet while everybody agrees (even myself) that what I said was rude and offensive and inappropriate, somehow nobody else believes that the actions which prompted those words should bear any burden of the blame here.
Why are words so important? The answer would usually sound something like "Well, because they can be hurtful, of course!".
Oh....oh HURTFUL, ok so lets review the evidence...
We're talking about a person, a "gamer", who was supposed to be a team member, but had so little care of what his fellow team mate gamers feel, think, or deserve, that this person finds it amusing to grief his own team.
Does that sound like a person who CARES what I think or say? Does it sound like a person who could possible be legitimately offended by ANYTHING I have to say, considering how he gets his kicks?
Obvious answer is obvious...
So how come circumstance doesn't matter? How come I very well may get a ban for this, yet he will receive absolutely no punishment?
Look at Kevin Trudeau for instance. He was convicted and ordered by the courts to refund $37.6million to defrauded customers, and instead of paying he now lives in Zurich (one of the 5 richest cities in the world) in a $12,000 a month apartment, spending hundreds of thousands of dollars a month living a billionaire lifestyle and claiming "he's broke and can't pay back the $37 million, because the money he spends is not actually his, it is just a corporate living expenses that his corporations give him (but it isn't "his", but in reality the corporations are all his and he has just put them all in his wifes name)"...and the U.S. Government can't do anything about it, because his WORDS and the words of his LAWYERS are preventing it.
This world is severely broken.
, but I don't think I am...unfortunately.Exhibit A -
Domination PVP Battle is about 7 minutes in, and despite us being one man short due to there being 1 AFKer on our team (who I eventually booted when they would not respond or move from base for 2 straight minutes), we are actually doing decent vs our opponents and holding a good fight at point 2.
Almost dead, I promptly hop on my horse and begin to head for our sides health potion, and here are the events that took place:
- A "Team Mate" of mine (who is 100% full health) is already sitting at the base of the ramp on his horse and begins to run his horse slightly ahead of mine toward the health potion.
- I stop for a second, hoping he will notice my health and let me have it.
- As I stop, he stops his horse too (but still slightly ahead of me) as if to let me have it.
- As I again begin moving toward it, he also resumes moving toward it again, note there are no enemies chasing us.
- I again stop and he mimics me, stopping and hopping his horse up and down as if to say "Here boy! here is the potion! Come get it!"
- I finally say screw it and make a dash for the potion, at which point he promptly rides right through it, which of course consumes it as this <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> beta has no mechanism to check if the person actually needs it, it just gives it to whoever rides through.
- I get pissed off and cuss at him in zone chat.
- I get told I should enjoy my VERBAL HARRASSMENT BAN.
- I get told by others in the zone "it's just a game, don't get butt hurt."
So my question here is simple: "Why is it that words count so much more than actions?"
I am perfectly capable in believing that what I said to him could generate a suspension or at very least a warning, yet while everybody agrees (even myself) that what I said was rude and offensive and inappropriate, somehow nobody else believes that the actions which prompted those words should bear any burden of the blame here.
Why are words so important? The answer would usually sound something like "Well, because they can be hurtful, of course!".
Oh....oh HURTFUL, ok so lets review the evidence...
We're talking about a person, a "gamer", who was supposed to be a team member, but had so little care of what his fellow team mate gamers feel, think, or deserve, that this person finds it amusing to grief his own team.
Does that sound like a person who CARES what I think or say? Does it sound like a person who could possible be legitimately offended by ANYTHING I have to say, considering how he gets his kicks?
Obvious answer is obvious...
So how come circumstance doesn't matter? How come I very well may get a ban for this, yet he will receive absolutely no punishment?
Look at Kevin Trudeau for instance. He was convicted and ordered by the courts to refund $37.6million to defrauded customers, and instead of paying he now lives in Zurich (one of the 5 richest cities in the world) in a $12,000 a month apartment, spending hundreds of thousands of dollars a month living a billionaire lifestyle and claiming "he's broke and can't pay back the $37 million, because the money he spends is not actually his, it is just a corporate living expenses that his corporations give him (but it isn't "his", but in reality the corporations are all his and he has just put them all in his wifes name
)"...and the U.S. Government can't do anything about it, because his WORDS and the words of his LAWYERS are preventing it.This world is severely broken.
Post edited by krioma on
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Comments
Because it doesn't so why spend 20 minutes writing it.
I think anyone that writes a manifesto over one single pvp match should get a ban. Seriously at least Christopher Dorner gave a shout out to Bill Cosby. If you think the world is broken because some kid grabbed a heal pot and griefed you maybe you should not pvp.
The people on the Forums here are just thinking that you are a little over the top with your need to debate this in public. That guy did it because he could. Mechanics gave him an edge over you, and he abused it. His intentions were to get under your skin. "Mission Accomplished" - G.W. Bush.
By and large, PvP is short for Punk Vs. Punk. That's just the way of things. You'll have to develop a thicker set of armor to enjoy that phase of any MMO I've ever played. In short: Don't let it get to you, that just feeds the Punk.
I think O.J. Simpson and Kevin Trudeau are much better examples of why the world is broken. I'm just curious to hear what Neverwinter gamers think on the subject as I presented it.
A dog on my emotional state based on a watered-down summary of why I think the world is broken isn't anymore useful than a "TL;DR", but w/e.
I appreciate your pep talk for me.
"A need for debate" is an interesting way to put it. I'm looking to see what people actually think about it, though debate isn't really my goal here, as the act itself is one of the pillars of evil I hint at in my diatribe OP.
Definitely no point in saying anything about it here. This is where the dregs of this game's community spend most of their time.
Why stoop to their level if you know better? Doesnt that just make you the same as the ones your describing? Ofc naturally protect yourself from people like that, but i would rather approach matter treat everyone first how you would want to be treated. If they slash at you then you know who to not treat that way. Ofc it leads to a lot of disapointment, but when you find those good people out of them they make it all worth of it.
The world is messed up place and it will get a lot worse. But why care about stuff that is out of your control. Live your life have a family and care about stuff you can control, if you can't do that well... we invented tools that can sort that problem out.
2. What did you expect the community to do to your griefer? Should they have gathered together en masse with pitchforks and torches? Is it because you didn't get an outpouring of sympathy to your plight? There's not a lot that anyone can do about it.
The world is definitely broken, but, and I say this understanding that you're angry, a video game shouldn't be the route you get to understanding this. There are many, much more important examples going on every day out here in the real world, where an instance like this would matter. Understand that some people that play PvP in MMOs are exactly like your teammate. Nothing you can post here, or in Zone is going to change that, and he's not alone. If there was a mechanic for it, he'd have likely tried to teabag you too. It's the mentality of some PvPcentric players, and I've watched people rage about them in Zone equivalent chats for 10+ years. They aren't going to suddenly start believing that griefing their own teammates is bad, just like people won't stop believing that rolling Need on everything that drops is the right thing to do.
Even this post have been run through spelling and sentence structure programs :I
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
And don't argue that there's a profanity filter because anyone can disable the profanity filter with just the click of a mouse!
Go complain to the ESRB, not Cryptic. Cryptic is just trying to make sure they can get the largest age range of clients to play their game, and you can't do that if your game is filled with people swearing and writing profanity all over. Plus even if the kid didn't know how to disable the profanity filter, if you're a parent, would you really like it if your 13 year old kid is playing a game where all you see in chat is:
@#@# YOU @#)@# GOD @#(*@ STUPID @#)(@#@ YOU SUCK @#)(@#@ FREAKING @)#(@)#@ GO LICK MY @#@ AND EAT @#@# WHILE YOU'RE AT IT YOU @)#@#)@ )(#)@#) )@#)@# @ OF @!)#(@)#@# AND YOUR @#)(@)#@ TOO! ?
For the OP: http://www.nickyee.com/daedalus/
Some interesting reading there.
[SIGPIC]Captain Electric and the Sapien Spider[/SIGPIC]
"YES, PLEASE"
Vote YES for the Foundry in Champions Online.
@Captain-Electric | CoH/Virtue veteran | Proud new Champion
This is how greedy people are:
the founders got a fun/toy item that produces one item worth 1 copper every hour. If you use it in town, its like throwing $100 bills into a crowd of beggars. Everyone in a 20 yard radius dives to see who can get that 1 copper from the vendor.
Words count more than actions to them because they have the ability to hide behind a computer and make peoples lives more miserable when they are trying to play a game for entertainment, and they do not suffer any consequence for it, because they understand how to manipulate every game mechanic in a way that irritates other players, but since the game mechanic is WAI, they aren't doing anything wrong. Basically being a social d-bag doesn't have the same negative consequences in a video game as it does in real life.
Actually, ya know what, I don't wish the subject line was the case at my job. I went off on one of my bosses the other day. Swear words were tossed, lemme tell ya. Not the sort of thing that happens every day (or every month, or year...).
But I do a good job, and I knew what I was swearin' about. Which is why I still work there. Because nothing I said the other day trumped what I DO around there. We had it sorted by the end of the business day.
Respect is something you'll only get from a small subset of diamonds here. And when I say diamonds, I'm referring to some friends you may be lucky enough to make. Keep em when you find em. Be good to them. They are RARE. Because when you strip away identity and accountability, with most people, you get what you described in your OP. Parasites, rotten to the core.
But see, what you did in public, losing control, that is the sort of thing that gets you on good, nice peoples ignore lists. You seem like a person who wants to be good but can't find much good elsewhere. And yeah, it's a bit too much drama for a video game forum, but there's a good hard lesson here regardless. Life tests you, even here. Don't just be the person you want to be when everything is going smooth. Be the person you want to be when some dude is stealing your health potion, too.
Anyway, dust yourself off, get your composure back and do better next time.
[SIGPIC]Captain Electric and the Sapien Spider[/SIGPIC]
"YES, PLEASE"
Vote YES for the Foundry in Champions Online.
@Captain-Electric | CoH/Virtue veteran | Proud new Champion
But i strongly believe in what goes around comes around.
That guy probably hasn't had a good childhood. Or was bullied. Or doesn't know how to socialize properly.
He probably thinks by annoying you he will get your attention. And it works. He is only craving attention.
He probably didn't want to hurt your feelings and in fact if you could have heard him maybe he was going " hehe Im going to get it before you !!!! " In a jokey teasing way.
What I would've done is laugh about it and remember that at the end of the day that pot was nothing but part of the game. But that person is just another person who although put you at a disadvantage in the game, is playing the game his way.
If you had laughed about it, you may of ended up being friends or buddies and then perhaps ( quite radically ) a series of events could have seen you two meeting up in real life and finding out that you get along great! which when a turn of events occur for the worse sees you out of a job which he just so happens to knows a job position that is perfect for you and then you get it, get more money, meet your future wife which turn means you have some wonderful kids who then grow up to become the most brilliant scientists of all time, who invent some cure or technology which benefits mankind which means we can go out into space and colonize other planets to keep the human race alive for the course of the universe.
It's extremely radical but the world doesn't need more negativity. If anything, when someones negative and you react positively, you create a balance in the world that can only be done by human hand.
Oh and the story you read above, well it's my story about halfway. Cutting it short I never played MMO's but i started playing a game where Someone griefed me, and i laughed about it and he laughed, we made a guild, guild disbands, I missed those times and don't hear from him in a while, I look for him in another game, i meet new people who were trolling me in global chat, I laugh again, make a new guild, meet people, guild disbands again because of drama, but me and a girl (when i first met her I actually asked her if she could make me some sandwiches and she laughed) got close I meet up with said girl who I am moving in with in a few months.
All because I played one mmo 3 years ago and laughed about being ganked.
It's a crazy world but something negative can be turned into something so positive if you choose to change it. We are not forced to react like machines to inputs.
Edit* oh and always look on the positive side. I'm a hypocrite as I don't always do it but i try to when i can. Like be thankful you can play the game, and be thankful other people play with you. Be thankful you have technology that allows you to meet people otherwise impossible to meet. Be thankful that you have the choice to voice your opinion and get it heard.
You would need to frap the whole scene to capture the context. Even then he could use the excuse that he hadn't seen you.
Words, on the other hand, have generally agreed upon denotations that can be used as evidence.
He knew it and used it against you.
PVP is about beating someone. It doesn’t matter who gets beaten. Enemies, teammates, whatever. The win is the most important thing and that win can come from anywhere, from anything. It doesn’t even have to be part of the game engine. If someone can get you banned for harassment that is their “win”.
Honestly, PVP is just a great toxic pit of the worst humanity has to offer and I don’t want to get any of it on me. And its not specific to THIS game, its systemic to the very nature of PVP.
So getting shafted by your teammate is no surprise to me and I suspect no surprise to you either OP. People, in absence of rules, are not noble a la Rousseau or some Nietzschean man above men. They are savage little horrors that do awful things to each other to salve some internal disparity.
People might say L2P but its more like L2Playground.
If, after all this, you still find yourself possessed of the need to involve yourself in PVP, my advice would be to find some solace in the marrow of other peoples defeats where you may.
Schadenfreude is better than nothing.
This. He was obviously so bored that griefing you sounded more fun to him than actually participating in the PvP. So, put him on ignore, and move on.
Here is a bit of advice I'd love to get into some forum posters' heads: The best weapon you have against trolls is to utterly ignore them. Do not quote them, do not call them a troll, do not give them any notice whatsoever. That is what they crave, and it is best to let them starve.
Respect. You bring back faith in your side of the world.
I very rarely do any PvP and until I read this I would not have known if the potion expired on a timer or after one character moved through it.