^ If this were their first F2P game with a cash shop, your point might've been valid. But it's not, their other games also price things similarly, and last time I checked aren't failing financially
From the Wall Street Journal:
Perfect World Co.'s (PWRD) fourth-quarter earnings declined 67% as the Chinese online-game developer recorded higher operating expenses and weaker revenue.
"During the past year of 2012, we decelerated in-game promotional activities and primarily focused on longer-term projects in our pipeline and content enhancements for our existing titles in order to maintain a healthy life cycle of our portfolio and sustainable growth of our business," said Chairman Michael Chi. "As such, our 2012 results came in softer than our previous year's results."
Online game revenue, which contributes the bulk of the top-line, slipped 15% to CNY599.7 million ($96.3 million). Licensing revenue was down 44%, to CNY36.5 million ($5.9 million)."
Perfect World Co.'s (PWRD) fourth-quarter earnings declined 67% as the Chinese online-game developer recorded higher operating expenses and weaker revenue.
"During the past year of 2012, we decelerated in-game promotional activities and primarily focused on longer-term projects in our pipeline and content enhancements for our existing titles in order to maintain a healthy life cycle of our portfolio and sustainable growth of our business," said Chairman Michael Chi. "As such, our 2012 results came in softer than our previous year's results."
Online game revenue, which contributes the bulk of the top-line, slipped 15% to CNY599.7 million ($96.3 million). Licensing revenue was down 44%, to CNY36.5 million ($5.9 million)."
Good job cherry-picking. Did you miss the part where they beat earnings estimates by 5% and were 50% QoQ higher than Q3? Or that their stock is at its 52-week high?
"Participation in PVP-related activities is so low on an hourly, daily, weekly, and monthly basis that we could in fact just completely take it out of STO and it would not impact the overall number of people [who] log in to the game and play in any significant way." -Gozer, Cryptic PvP Dev
Good job cherry-picking. Did you miss the part where they beat earnings estimates by 5% and were 50% QoQ higher than Q3? Or that their stock is at its 52-week high?
What is good for their stockholders isn't necessarily good (and usually isn't) for us gamers.
I enjoyed Dragon's Prophecy. I enjoyed Neverwinter, too, until level 30 and I saw how expensive ftp was going to be. I will continue until I've used up my Guardian Pack. The keys, I didn't mind buying. But now the identity scrolls cost 40 diamonds each, one use each. And this is just the beginning. Pay to play.
Good job cherry-picking. Did you miss the part where they beat earnings estimates by 5% and were 50% QoQ higher than Q3? Or that their stock is at its 52-week high?
It's true their shares have picked up slightly since the launch of Neverwinter (must be all those bag sales!) but basically they've been bouncing along the bottom for the past 12 months. Look at the 2-year graph to see the true picture.
As for the future? Well I guess it depends on how they treat all these potential new customers!
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morbicMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
Since Dragon's Prophet is still in Beta, I haven't fully checked to see if the content will all be free from the start or whether you will have to pay for unlocks to get the game piecemeal or subscribe like the other SOE games Freemium models generally. What kinds of unlocks will you have to buy and how much will you get for free? Since there is no AD/Zen exchange type system in the SOE models generally, I'm guessing you will have to pay for everything in the shop one way or another.
rapticorMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,078Arc User
edited May 2013
I'm in the closed beta. The game crashed about 15 minutes into the tutorial. What I saw didn't look all that exciting so I haven't been back since.
However I get the point you're trying to make is a comparison of the cash shops and not the game itself. That surely isn't a dealbreaker for me so I'll stick with Neverwinter thanks.
Or we can compare the opposite direction, and check out the latest game from Aeria....
16 backpack spaces, 30 day temporary - $3
(If you want permanent backpacks, they are a rare drop from the Backpack box)
32 bank spaces, 30 day temp - $2
(If you want permanent bank space, it's a rare drop from the Warehouse box)
Actual useful abilities for your companions? Those range from $1 - $40. Not tradeable.
Mount? Well, there's one for $30 (not account wide), the other two are rare drops from two different boxes.
Costumes? One lousy one is available for $30. All the others are rare drops from (guess what!) individual boxes.
Weekend "sales" that encourage you to spend enough to hit certain milestones for "bonus prizes".... up to $150+. One weekend had a costume you had to collect letters for. Getting all the letters, if you didn't buy them off other people, meant spending $500+ for "bonuses".
Yeah, it makes the Neverwinter shop look like a flea market.
(and yet, there were still lunatics who responded to the "how much have you spent" threads, with totals between $1k and $4k. The first month. :eek:)
I hope you dont meant that POS scarlet blade lol
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iamdoctordeathMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Except that Dragon Prophet is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> game. I got invite to Close Beta and wow it amazing how a game can be so undervelop and fill with so many bugs.
Another mmo being slammed for its bugs and being underdeveloped in comparison to Neverwinter.
zen you buy with AD is still zen that SOMEONE has purchased. They make more that way because you can effectively buy AD instead of buying it from gold sellers. Eventually as the game starts to decline it will be much more expensive to buy zen with AD.
I REALLY didn't want to play this game because PWE was hosting it, they are notoriously bad for having the worst free to play models. SoE use to be bad but they learned really fast that making things a fair price means people will purchase more, This game isn't the worst free to play model I have ever done but PWEs cash model is still bogus as usual (the other ones that were worse just happened to be PWE games as well)
Too bad for me I LOVE DnD and neverwinter is my favorite
I have spent 40 on this game I admit, but compare that to the 250 I spent on some other games on any given month simply because there was more bang for my buck. I don't want to pay for this game because the prices are insulting. *hey buddy did you get some feats that you found out are broken? put some points into a spell that you found doesn't do anything with more points? why good for you you can spend six dollars to fix it. Thanks for testing!* Give me a break... I am a DnD fan girl but my patience is wearing thin. I really want to keep loving this game.
I enjoyed Dragon's Prophecy. I enjoyed Neverwinter, too, until level 30 and I saw how expensive ftp was going to be. I will continue until I've used up my Guardian Pack. The keys, I didn't mind buying. But now the identity scrolls cost 40 diamonds each, one use each. And this is just the beginning. Pay to play.
Umm...I dont know why anyone would need to pay for those scrolls lol. Ive got like stacks of them in my inventory from monster drops for free XD So not like they are hard to get.
Cant say i like the look of the game but the comparison of the cash shop prices is pretty dramatic.
Bit of a surprise to me considering that Runewalker is involved with it since one of there other MMO's called Runes of Magic is pretty much in my experience about the most expensive ftp mmo i have ever played by a long way (assuming you want decent gear , which you have to have to do latest dungeons).
Don't you remind me of that game!
Back when I used to play it you'd bring your weapon to around tier 12 and your gear to at least 8 or 10... you'd literally waste at least 1000$ just to get your stuff pimped to where it was remotely useful.... until the next dungeon was released at which point your gear became pretty much worthless and the cycle had to be repeated.
RoM should have been named "We're gonna empty your wallet and keep it that way" from the beginning.
And thus the main reason I dont support PW games =/ sad Cause theres plenty where I've enjoyed playing long hours on them, and would like to. But not at these prices. I can afford it, Can't justify it. I just cant go "Hmm I feel alright with blowing 40 bucks on a bear to ride around town."...
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codewizardMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 1Arc User
And thus the main reason I dont support PW games =/ sad Cause theres plenty where I've enjoyed playing long hours on them, and would like to. But not at these prices. I can afford it, Can't justify it. I just cant go "Hmm I feel alright with blowing 40 bucks on a bear to ride around town."...
I'm with this guy. I love their gameplay (other previous PWE games too, BoI & FW for example) but I will not stick around long term - cannot afford too. If there stuff was cheaper I would probably spend a little less each month, but probably for years instead of for just 6 months max as I did with each of the aforementioned examples.
Is it weird that I miss subscription based games? How much cheaper are they than F2P - how ironic!
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daowaceMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
It's PWE, what do you expect?
Worst kick in the teeth is that the bank isn't account wide. If it was, I would've bought slots for it already like I did with GW2. Now it's just a better use of money to buy extra character slots and mail items. Though, that doesn't help bound ones, nor the constant influx of runestones, which are the real problem.
Found a bag of holes today. Has one inventory space. You can't put an item into it. What a joke.
24 Bag Slots = 1,000zen
16 Bank Slots = 600zen
1 Mount Zen = 3,000Zen to 4,000zen
1 mount starting Blue = 2,000Zen to 3,000Zen (+2,064,000AD)
1 Mount starting green = 500Zen to 800Zen (+768,000AD +2,064,000AD)
1 Mount starting from grey = 5G (+768,000AD +2,064,000AD)
Champions Online (Cryptic)
1000 Zen = $10
22 Bag Slots = 7G 50N = 7G 50S (Neverwinter in game curancy equivalent... yes it's not even AD, it's LOWER than AD)
belt slot to have the bag (FtP) 2 free max 5, 250Zen per = 750Zen (to have 5 bag "spaces, to actualy buy bags with G)
40 Bank Slots = 10N = 10S (Neverwinter in game curancy equivalent... yes it's not even AD, it's LOWER than AD)
+40 more = 1G
+40 more = 10G
+40 more (max) = 100G
1 Vehicle Zen = 1,200Zen to 1,800Zen (can be used in combat and has it's own "customizable power set, through use of "mods"... the CO version of enchantments, but some grant attack powers) (even if you could get 500 AD for 1 Zen at any time.... getting the equivalent in Neverwinter, is way more Zen)
1 mount starting Blue = 2,000Zen to 3,000Zen (+2,064,000AD)
1 Mount starting green = 500Zen to 800Zen (+768,000AD +2,064,000AD)
1 Mount starting from grey = 5G (+768,000AD +2,064,000AD)
Just to point out, no one should EVER do this. Even at the worst exchange rate possible (500:1) the cost of upgrading a lesser mount to T3 (for one character) is more than the cost of just converting those AD to zen and buying a T3 mount (for ALL characters).
At the current rate on Dragon, 350:1? The AD wasted on upgrading a mount would give you 8000 zen. Enough for two of the most expensive T3 mounts.
DO NOT use those upgrade scrolls.
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bushy808Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I wouldn't play a Sony game if someone tried to pay me to do it. In my opinion, you may as well stick a sign on your account that says, "Please, take my CC information."
While the absurd exchange rate in PWE/NW is acknowledged, the simple fact of Sony's cheap currency conversion rate is that most of us watched the repeated hacks and loss of PII and credit card information and simply swore off them.
In other words, frankly, I think they have to be cheap because no one will pay to have their information stolen (i.e., overtly and publicly demonstrated laxity in security practice).
Umm...I learned not to give my CC info to gaming company back in the early days of WoW. When you would cancel, but they would still charge you for months on end. Get your hands on a prepaid credit card, and play/watch/do anything you want online. end of story.
Just to point out, no one should EVER do this. Even at the worst exchange rate possible (500:1) the cost of upgrading a lesser mount to T3 (for one character) is more than the cost of just converting those AD to zen and buying a T3 mount (for ALL characters).
At the current rate on Dragon, 350:1? The AD wasted on upgrading a mount would give you 8000 zen. Enough for two of the most expensive T3 mounts.
DO NOT use those upgrade scrolls.
lol even worse you can get 2 of the Zen purples, for the same price each, as 1 of the Zen Blues... that means buying that blue is PURE loss... it's a generic soda, at name brand price.
edit to add: and that's not even mentioning that a purple mount at MOST shouldn't cost over2K Zen
I think the prices would be more "reasonable" at
purple: 1,500-2,000Zen
blue: 1,000-1,499Zen
Green: 500-999Zen
white: 5G and up to 499Zen (if Zen then account wide unlock, while Gold is still single toon)
training books (add a new book that makes a white green and also require it to be green to use the t1-t2 book)
white-green: less than 500Zen worth of AD
t1-t2: less than 500Zen worth of AD
t2-t3: less than 500Zen worth of AD
Edit to add more: to get that less than X worth
can place any price of AD at 200,000 AND also sell the training scrolls in Z store at 400 Zen each
that way if exchange is exactly 400, the one sold for AD would be same price as one sold for Zen
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maiku217Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
You forgot to mention with DP you start with 0 bank slots and only 30 slots for inventory until you reach certain levels. Also pretty much anything you need in the game requires you to pay. That said, Dragon's Prophet looks like **** that came out of a dragon's ***. (I did still buy the $90 pack lol)..
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randomone777Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 28Arc User
Umm...I learned not to give my CC info to gaming company back in the early days of WoW. When you would cancel, but they would still charge you for months on end. Get your hands on a prepaid credit card, and play/watch/do anything you want online. end of story.
Frankly, a company with even a modicum of security practice can ensure that if there is an intrusion, the data taken is effectively useless without a considerable amount of additional effort/work. The point here being that Sony was doing things (and likely still is, I suppose) that are so far below the minimum threshold of common sense in relation to security practice that you might as well have just handed the information directly to a known identity thief and patted them on the back with an, "Enjoy that now, y'hear?"
As for history, I've been online since before most knew there WAS an "online" (i.e., ArpaNet), and am happy to say that I've been an avid MMOer since Meridian 59 (and active in the BBS scene in a big way before that). If/when you decide to cancel an account, change the subscription type to "game card" and remove the credit card information (if you cannot remove the card outright). You cannot be billed if the card information isn't there.
To your point, game cards are actually better for security than pre-paid credit cards.
Thanks for the reply.
Maniacal mage making magical messes; mercifully, made mostly of menaces.
Cant say i like the look of the game but the comparison of the cash shop prices is pretty dramatic.
Bit of a surprise to me considering that Runewalker is involved with it since one of there other MMO's called Runes of Magic is pretty much in my experience about the most expensive ftp mmo i have ever played by a long way (assuming you want decent gear , which you have to have to do latest dungeons).
The thing that really bugged me about Runes of Magic was that it is the only game I have ever seen where you cannot buy extra inventory space but only rent it. Paying $10 for a 24 slot bag is definitely bad, but only being able to rent bag space a couple months at a time is way, way worse. I always buy the maximum amount of bag and bank space I can get in every game I play, but I refused to ever buy inventory space in Runes of Magic. If I am paying for a bag, I expect to keep it forever.
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desoroMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
Poor comparison. This game has a Beta community in the 100s of thousands (you will be surprised once they release official numbers) and that game will be lucky to get 10,000 active players.
It is like comparing WoW's monthly fee of $15 to Runescape fee of $5 (Three times more)
The OP's numbers, when listing the real world monetary cost of certain in game elements fails to take into consideration the potential ability to get each of those items for $0 expenditure.
To be clear I am also not opposed to spending money on a game. If I enjoy a game I am always more than happy to support its continued development. When the F2P model however starts to cost more than $10 to $15 / month to give the same "quality of life" i can get from a monthly sub then one has to evaluate it.
Using $10 to $15 as a target goal, it is important to remember that we need an average of that much money per customer. In a game that charges a $15 monthly fee the average customer pays $15 a month because everyone has to pay $15 and no one can pay more than that. In a F2P game some will spend less than $15 and some will pay more than $15 and it can still average out to a game that charges the same amount per player.
One of the biggest perks of F2P games is that, by playing for free, you can slow down your progress in the game so that you don't find yourself having everything you ever wanted with nothing to do with your free time in only a few months (as usually happens these days in P2P games). If you don't get conned by the end game dungeon treadmill (where you spend weeks getting gear only to throw it away the next time they release a new dungeon and you get the gear from there) then it tends to take relatively little time to get everything that you could want. You find yourself with all the bag and bank space you can have, all the pets you want, and a different mount for every hour in a week. Then there is nothing to do.
In a F2P game you get to earn all of those things that are normally acquired far too easily in P2P games. Getting all the bags, bank space, companions, and mounts in this game without spending any real money will take a while thus giving us something to do when we normally would be all out of content to play. The lower "quality of life" is actually a perk of F2P games and those that do not enjoy it can simply pay to raise their quality of life faster.
Now when i played SW:TOR, where you have to pay on every step to have a good expirience, i must say... Shut up and play the freaking Neverwinter where you really can comfortably enjoy the game without giving a buck.
Comments
From the Wall Street Journal:
Perfect World Co.'s (PWRD) fourth-quarter earnings declined 67% as the Chinese online-game developer recorded higher operating expenses and weaker revenue.
"During the past year of 2012, we decelerated in-game promotional activities and primarily focused on longer-term projects in our pipeline and content enhancements for our existing titles in order to maintain a healthy life cycle of our portfolio and sustainable growth of our business," said Chairman Michael Chi. "As such, our 2012 results came in softer than our previous year's results."
Online game revenue, which contributes the bulk of the top-line, slipped 15% to CNY599.7 million ($96.3 million). Licensing revenue was down 44%, to CNY36.5 million ($5.9 million)."
Good job cherry-picking. Did you miss the part where they beat earnings estimates by 5% and were 50% QoQ higher than Q3? Or that their stock is at its 52-week high?
What is good for their stockholders isn't necessarily good (and usually isn't) for us gamers.
It's true their shares have picked up slightly since the launch of Neverwinter (must be all those bag sales!) but basically they've been bouncing along the bottom for the past 12 months. Look at the 2-year graph to see the true picture.
http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=PWRD+Interactive#symbol=pwrd;range=2y;compare=;indicator=volume;charttype=area;crosshair=on;ohlcvalues=0;logscale=off;source=undefined;
As for the future? Well I guess it depends on how they treat all these potential new customers!
Foundry Content:Guide - Custom Channels and List (NW-DHBU9OTOS)
Asset upgrading poll.
However I get the point you're trying to make is a comparison of the cash shops and not the game itself. That surely isn't a dealbreaker for me so I'll stick with Neverwinter thanks.
I hope you dont meant that POS scarlet blade lol
Another mmo being slammed for its bugs and being underdeveloped in comparison to Neverwinter.
And now I've seen everything.
I REALLY didn't want to play this game because PWE was hosting it, they are notoriously bad for having the worst free to play models. SoE use to be bad but they learned really fast that making things a fair price means people will purchase more, This game isn't the worst free to play model I have ever done but PWEs cash model is still bogus as usual (the other ones that were worse just happened to be PWE games as well)
Too bad for me I LOVE DnD and neverwinter is my favorite
I have spent 40 on this game I admit, but compare that to the 250 I spent on some other games on any given month simply because there was more bang for my buck. I don't want to pay for this game because the prices are insulting. *hey buddy did you get some feats that you found out are broken? put some points into a spell that you found doesn't do anything with more points? why good for you you can spend six dollars to fix it. Thanks for testing!* Give me a break... I am a DnD fan girl but my patience is wearing thin. I really want to keep loving this game.
Umm...I dont know why anyone would need to pay for those scrolls lol. Ive got like stacks of them in my inventory from monster drops for free XD So not like they are hard to get.
Don't you remind me of that game!
Back when I used to play it you'd bring your weapon to around tier 12 and your gear to at least 8 or 10... you'd literally waste at least 1000$ just to get your stuff pimped to where it was remotely useful.... until the next dungeon was released at which point your gear became pretty much worthless and the cycle had to be repeated.
RoM should have been named "We're gonna empty your wallet and keep it that way" from the beginning.
I'm with this guy. I love their gameplay (other previous PWE games too, BoI & FW for example) but I will not stick around long term - cannot afford too. If there stuff was cheaper I would probably spend a little less each month, but probably for years instead of for just 6 months max as I did with each of the aforementioned examples.
Is it weird that I miss subscription based games? How much cheaper are they than F2P - how ironic!
Worst kick in the teeth is that the bank isn't account wide. If it was, I would've bought slots for it already like I did with GW2. Now it's just a better use of money to buy extra character slots and mail items. Though, that doesn't help bound ones, nor the constant influx of runestones, which are the real problem.
Found a bag of holes today. Has one inventory space. You can't put an item into it. What a joke.
PC specs: http://forum.daow.net/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4#p99
lol, PWE you say? well how about a NEW list
Just to point out, no one should EVER do this. Even at the worst exchange rate possible (500:1) the cost of upgrading a lesser mount to T3 (for one character) is more than the cost of just converting those AD to zen and buying a T3 mount (for ALL characters).
At the current rate on Dragon, 350:1? The AD wasted on upgrading a mount would give you 8000 zen. Enough for two of the most expensive T3 mounts.
DO NOT use those upgrade scrolls.
Umm...I learned not to give my CC info to gaming company back in the early days of WoW. When you would cancel, but they would still charge you for months on end. Get your hands on a prepaid credit card, and play/watch/do anything you want online. end of story.
lol even worse you can get 2 of the Zen purples, for the same price each, as 1 of the Zen Blues... that means buying that blue is PURE loss... it's a generic soda, at name brand price.
edit to add: and that's not even mentioning that a purple mount at MOST shouldn't cost over2K Zen
I think the prices would be more "reasonable" at
purple: 1,500-2,000Zen
blue: 1,000-1,499Zen
Green: 500-999Zen
white: 5G and up to 499Zen (if Zen then account wide unlock, while Gold is still single toon)
training books (add a new book that makes a white green and also require it to be green to use the t1-t2 book)
white-green: less than 500Zen worth of AD
t1-t2: less than 500Zen worth of AD
t2-t3: less than 500Zen worth of AD
Edit to add more: to get that less than X worth
can place any price of AD at 200,000 AND also sell the training scrolls in Z store at 400 Zen each
that way if exchange is exactly 400, the one sold for AD would be same price as one sold for Zen
Frankly, a company with even a modicum of security practice can ensure that if there is an intrusion, the data taken is effectively useless without a considerable amount of additional effort/work. The point here being that Sony was doing things (and likely still is, I suppose) that are so far below the minimum threshold of common sense in relation to security practice that you might as well have just handed the information directly to a known identity thief and patted them on the back with an, "Enjoy that now, y'hear?"
As for history, I've been online since before most knew there WAS an "online" (i.e., ArpaNet), and am happy to say that I've been an avid MMOer since Meridian 59 (and active in the BBS scene in a big way before that). If/when you decide to cancel an account, change the subscription type to "game card" and remove the credit card information (if you cannot remove the card outright). You cannot be billed if the card information isn't there.
To your point, game cards are actually better for security than pre-paid credit cards.
Thanks for the reply.
Helpful links:
Morbic's channel list - Guide - Custom Channels and List
The thing that really bugged me about Runes of Magic was that it is the only game I have ever seen where you cannot buy extra inventory space but only rent it. Paying $10 for a 24 slot bag is definitely bad, but only being able to rent bag space a couple months at a time is way, way worse. I always buy the maximum amount of bag and bank space I can get in every game I play, but I refused to ever buy inventory space in Runes of Magic. If I am paying for a bag, I expect to keep it forever.
It is like comparing WoW's monthly fee of $15 to Runescape fee of $5 (Three times more)
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
Using $10 to $15 as a target goal, it is important to remember that we need an average of that much money per customer. In a game that charges a $15 monthly fee the average customer pays $15 a month because everyone has to pay $15 and no one can pay more than that. In a F2P game some will spend less than $15 and some will pay more than $15 and it can still average out to a game that charges the same amount per player.
One of the biggest perks of F2P games is that, by playing for free, you can slow down your progress in the game so that you don't find yourself having everything you ever wanted with nothing to do with your free time in only a few months (as usually happens these days in P2P games). If you don't get conned by the end game dungeon treadmill (where you spend weeks getting gear only to throw it away the next time they release a new dungeon and you get the gear from there) then it tends to take relatively little time to get everything that you could want. You find yourself with all the bag and bank space you can have, all the pets you want, and a different mount for every hour in a week. Then there is nothing to do.
In a F2P game you get to earn all of those things that are normally acquired far too easily in P2P games. Getting all the bags, bank space, companions, and mounts in this game without spending any real money will take a while thus giving us something to do when we normally would be all out of content to play. The lower "quality of life" is actually a perk of F2P games and those that do not enjoy it can simply pay to raise their quality of life faster.
Only that its Cash Shop is drastically cheaper. which apparently is true.
fanboys attack much?
and yes, while Neverwinter is a wonderful game and I've spent money on it, the Cash Shop needs some reductions.
I fear the new generation of gamers.