Clerics in Pvp (some questions)

agenteusa

Hello,

I haven't had much time to invest in pvp with the cleric at level 60 but there's something bothering me while I do pvp.

I'm not greatly geared but not that bad either (I have 3.3k power, some 2.5k crit, 1.2k defense and a 14.7s AS).

I am squishy as hell even with 1.2k defense, I seriously got one shotted (or very close to it) by a TR and normally CW's kill me solo in about 3-4 secs without me even being able to do squat.

I'm wondering at this point, am I speccing wrong for pvp, should I use full pvp gear (it seems to me the stats aren't that appealing but I might be wrong)?

I see other clerics handling dmg much better than I can and I don't understand why sinceI didn't have much time to delve into it. I used Hammer of Wrath on one of them and it barely took a couple % of his bar (and I seriously doubt he's running with that <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> that gives you a free attack resist every 60 secs) so the only other option is he's doing insane healing covering even the dmg of the Hammer. He didn't dodge either.

Can someone explain to me this? In a constructive way please?

Thanks

knoteskad

Well damage is absolutely insane at 60, no matter how much you try to tank up, so don't feel too bad.

Secondly, there are mitigation debuffs that are extremely overpowered IMO, things like Enfeeble, plaguefire, and then some. So 3/3 Cleanse is by far the most important thing here to stay alive, and only Astral Seal will proc it regularly, so you need AS and Dots to keep cleanse rolling. Enchants that dot will proc this, which is pretty cheese but works well.

I'm still uncertain just how effective defense actually is in PvP, still trying to figure out if debuffs reduce it, or just ignore flat amounts like armor pen since they can dip into negatives by themselves. Also since any good geared people would have up to 20% armor pen, anything below 21% damage reduction is completely useless, so if you're at say 15% damage reduction from having super low defense (AC is adding to this here) adding another 5% would be useless if the person attacking you has 20% armor pen, so you'd need to break that 20% just to counter that, then it starts being ok.

Even then the higher your DR gets the more effective their armor pen is technically, on top of that stupid things like shocking execution completely ignore it, so it has very questionable use.

HP is pretty much the most important stat right now for staying alive really.

So, short story = cleanse and HP are important. Oh, and overpowered P2W enchants like Soulforged lol.

deepfred

I would love to hear any 60+ pvping clerics pipe up on this, the pvp gear looks baffling stats wise. can anyone break down what stats are critical in pvp?

agenteusa

Hmm that even worse it, meaning that you really cant be an effective pvp and pve cleric at the same time. I don't see much point putting more than one point into cleanse for pve imo but you need 3 for pvp as you're saying.

I don't mind dying alot, it just baffles me that I see clerics withstanding much more dmg than I do even when I'm in my best option plan with Div AS and HG up. Even then I get bursted pretty without having a chance to do anything, it's cc after cc after cc.

I'm using Sunburst/FF/AS for pvp with forbearance and healer lore for class feats sicne I think I can regen enough divinity already. Should I look perhaps at some other skills?

Yes I'm trying to be as much of a healer as I can even though I know you cant be a full healer here.

knoteskad

agenteusa wrote: »

Hmm that even worse it, meaning that you really cant be an effective pvp and pve cleric at the same time. I don't see much point putting more than one point into cleanse for pve imo but you need 3 for pvp as you're saying.

I don't mind dying alot, it just baffles me that I see clerics withstanding much more dmg than I do even when I'm in my best option plan with Div AS and HG up. Even then I get bursted pretty without having a chance to do anything, it's cc after cc after cc.

I'm using Sunburst/FF/AS for pvp with forbearance and healer lore for class feats sicne I think I can regen enough divinity already. Should I look perhaps at some other skills?

Yes I'm trying to be as much of a healer as I can even though I know you cant be a full healer here.

Like I said, debuffs are absolutely overpowered beyond all hell in PvP.

You realize a single CW can stack 2 debuffs and make you literally take double dmg lol.

Also I'm only losing 6% divinity gain to get 3/3 cleanse, I don't really see it as that big of a deal honestly. I always have more divinity than I need for the most part, except for in pvp.

Rogues I can't really see much counter to, atleast to Shocking Execution it ignores EVERYTHING and I've seen videos of it doing literally 75% of a person's health in a non crit while said person was at full health lol.

HP/Regen tank would probably be your best bet.

zingarbage

I've been trying to make a switch from defense to regen and deflection. well as much as possible at least, they aren't exactly common stats.

Knot summed up things well, especially running cleanse. Use it with plaguefire or the fire weapon enchant. They add a dot that procs astral seal. In general, you want to be applying astral seal and brand of the sun on everything you possibly can. With plaguefire weapon enchant, you will get a couple of cleanses by simply applying astral seal to a target.

I consider keeping cleanse up as important as keeping astral shield up, if not important. There are a lot of defense debuffs out there currently and they simply just stack up on you and everyone else on your team. A CW is deadly, but a CW doing double damage is impossible to stay alive against. Cleanse is your savior.

knoteskad

zingarbage wrote: »

I've been trying to make a switch from defense to regen and deflection. well as much as possible at least, they aren't exactly common stats.

Knot summed up things well, especially running cleanse. Use it with plaguefire or the fire weapon enchant. They add a dot that procs astral seal. In general, you want to be applying astral seal and brand of the sun on everything you possibly can. With plaguefire weapon enchant, you will get a couple of cleanses by simply applying astral seal to a target.

I consider keeping cleanse up as important as keeping astral shield up, if not important. There are a lot of defense debuffs out there currently and they simply just stack up on you and everyone else on your team. A CW is deadly, but a CW doing double damage is impossible to stay alive against. Cleanse is your savior.

I would say it's even more important. Especially if it can cleanse CC.

CW being my first character and facerolling when fresh 60 I know exactly how strong it is, and doing that set up on my cleric the other day, you can really tell the difference.

I was nonchalantly tanking 2 CW's for like 30 seconds before they gave up and we just... won. It's a bit silly TBH, both those debuffs and cleanse need nerfs lol. Counter one OP with another.

It's not only removing the ridiculous debuffs like plaguefire and enfeeble and conduit (thaum) but also removing the dot dmg they do which is also pretty big, including the dmg from entangling (choke).

HOWEVER none of this will ever stop Rogues from just coming by, pressing a single button (shocking execution) and just winning. I want to know if Deflect can affect SE. If it did atleast you could stack 10% to have a 10% chance of surviving lol.

hidusx

Does Prophetic Action make any useful impact on Shocking Execution?

agenteusa

That might be it then. I must be stacking debuffs that I really haven't tracked so far (god this game could use a better debuff tracking system...) due to the fact that my cleanse doesn't proc as often as with 3 points.

That might just be the reason I'm dying so fast most of the times.

hidusx

BTW just wanted to add there are guys running around with 5x Greater Tenebrous enchantments + a Greater Plague Fire enchant which = ridiculous frontloaded damage. Good luck trying to survive that.

kabothoriginal

Well there are some factors you need to consider.

1. If its a Premade VS PUG pvp group.
1.a. - Guilded and using TeamSpeak or Ventrillo (or some communication package) can drop you fast.
2. Their gear score VS your gear score.
3. Whether they ganking the cleric and know how to do it. Which most seemingly do.
4. How good is your group and their gear score?
5. Finally, your build.

When I first started PVP, it was easy to stomp me, now that my gear is a little better, my spells are better and more potent. Now with a group that is communicating well and knows what to do and times their attacks. More than likely you will get annihilated. I just roll with the good with the bad, but it can be frustrating when all they do is kill the cleric, and its even worse when you have a group that your against is so strong VS a super weak group and will spawn camp you. Those are the ones that think they have mad skills and such.

Truth is any decently geared premade group will dominate unless they happen to meet a likewise group. Sad thing is the premade groups really think they are amazing players, and truth be told, any premade will rock pugs for the most part.

Only real reason I do any PVP is just for Astral Diamonds.

faethor70

knoteskad wrote: »

Well damage is absolutely insane at 60, no matter how much you try to tank up, so don't feel too bad.

Secondly, there are mitigation debuffs that are extremely overpowered IMO, things like Enfeeble, plaguefire, and then some. So 3/3 Cleanse is by far the most important thing here to stay alive, and only Astral Seal will proc it regularly, so you need AS and Dots to keep cleanse rolling. Enchants that dot will proc this, which is pretty cheese but works well.

I'm still uncertain just how effective defense actually is in PvP, still trying to figure out if debuffs reduce it, or just ignore flat amounts like armor pen since they can dip into negatives by themselves. Also since any good geared people would have up to 20% armor pen, anything below 21% damage reduction is completely useless, so if you're at say 15% damage reduction from having super low defense (AC is adding to this here) adding another 5% would be useless if the person attacking you has 20% armor pen, so you'd need to break that 20% just to counter that, then it starts being ok.

Even then the higher your DR gets the more effective their armor pen is technically, on top of that stupid things like shocking execution completely ignore it, so it has very questionable use.

HP is pretty much the most important stat right now for staying alive really.

So, short story = cleanse and HP are important. Oh, and overpowered P2W enchants like Soulforged lol.

I would setup a PvP chat tab (which I have) and when you go in shut everything off in the log and watch and see what your getting hit with what ability. I have 30% def and 31% crit. I have matches where I cant drop and others where Im 1 shotted by a rogue for 25k + with Pegasus/Drake gear. It all depends on what your enemies are hitting you with imo. If your being focus fired, your going to get cr@p for glory accept it or quit playing a cleric. I see this alot and its maddening at times. If your in a team that isnt a team- worry about capping to boost your own score so you wont get <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> for glory. I have 1 in clense and it does me just fine. I had 2, but read an article on it and changed my mind. Each HoT tic has a chance to proc the clense plus your other abilities. (as per the article- and 9 times out of 10 no one helps the cleric so who cares if they die to a DoT- PvP is very fast at 60.) I feel its not like that 1 tic of a dot that didnt clense would have saved someone that wasnt helping me (thus a team effort- so I specd for 1 point).

faethor70

What do I want my recovery to be around ? I cant decide if crit or recovery is more important now. I have crit atm.

kabothoriginal

faethor70 wrote: »

What do I want my recovery to be around ? I cant decide if crit or recovery is more important now. I have crit atm.

you want your recovery pretty high, crit is a secondary item, you want some crit, but mostly recovery and power IMHO.

knoteskad

faethor70 wrote: »

I would setup a PvP chat tab (which I have) and when you go in shut everything off in the log and watch and see what your getting hit with what ability. I have 30% def and 31% crit. I have matches where I cant drop and others where Im 1 shotted by a rogue for 25k + with Pegasus/Drake gear. It all depends on what your enemies are hitting you with imo. If your being focus fired, your going to get cr@p for glory accept it or quit playing a cleric. I see this alot and its maddening at times. If your in a team that isnt a team- worry about capping to boost your own score so you wont get <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> for glory. I have 1 in clense and it does me just fine. I had 2, but read an article on it and changed my mind. Each HoT tic has a chance to proc the clense plus your other abilities. (as per the article- and 9 times out of 10 no one helps the cleric so who cares if they die to a DoT- PvP is very fast at 60.) I feel its not like that 1 tic of a dot that didnt clense would have saved someone that wasnt helping me (thus a team effort- so I specd for 1 point).

Unfortunately that's not the case.

ONLY Astral Seal can proc cleanse on tics.

Everything else only rolls on the initial Cast.

Healing Word, etc.