GF - When They Get Fixed

cihuacoatl

I keep hearing PWE saying over and over for the last month that they are working on it. In the mean time every GF out there has dished out cash to respec to Conq in some hope that they will be accepted into a T2 and CN. We are all gearing for DPS because what little tanking we actually do is rather sad... when it comes to boss fights.

The patch will come out and now Protection and Tactics (I pray) will now be required to tank content. The way it should have been all along. Now all the GF that wanted to tank since day one will have to not only dish out more $$$ to PWE but we also will have to spend countless hours and millions of AD regearing.

Of course this is all a huge assumption that they actually fix GF. For some reason I am a little concerned... mainly because the meta is currently so broken I am not sure how they can fix it. Perhaps that is what is taking them so long?

supjeremiah

cihuacoatl wrote: »

I keep hearing PWE saying over and over for the last month that they are working on it. In the mean time every GF out there has dished out cash to respec to Conq in some hope that they will be accepted into a T2 and CN. We are all gearing for DPS because what little tanking we actually do is rather sad... when it comes to boss fights.

The patch will come out and now Protection and Tactics (I pray) will now be required to tank content. The way it should have been all along. Now all the GF that wanted to tank since day one will have to not only dish out more $$$ to PWE but we also will have to spend countless hours and millions of AD regearing.

Of course this is all a huge assumption that they actually fix GF. For some reason I am a little concerned... mainly because the meta is currently so broken I am not sure how they can fix it. Perhaps that is what is taking them so long?

I don't know what you think they're "fixing". All they can do really is fix aggro, which would let us "tank" with other specs. But why? Why would you go another spec when you can tank everything in Conq while doing more damage?

etherealj

They would have to seriously mess with cleric agro, GF mitigation, and monster damage to make a gf required.

imobius

The viability problems of a GF is not on the GFs end..

Control effects in this game are far to powerful and there are far to many, easily to use, CCs in this game.
Smoke Bomb, Singularity, Freeze and all the other **** ping pong CC effects completely destroy the need to have a tank in your group. When all you can just do is control everything and nullify the danger of them and prevent any damage income.

If CC was far less OR if it had diminishing returns, mobs would become dangerous again, they're no longer control spammed and tanking, positioning and allowing Combat Advantage would be needed again. Making Guardians a wanted addition to a group once more.

However, here comes the other problem with that. Clerics can do that much better.
Their threat generation is insane, easier manage than a Guardian could, so keeping aggro is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> easy for them.
And because Clerics take 40% reduced healing from themselves, just get a second cleric. And while you're at it, you can just stack Astral Shields and become immortal.

So, a combination of Clerics, Rogues and Wizards is significantly more efficient and faster than having a Guardian (or a GWF) in your group.

They need to implement a diminishing returns system for control and tweak some of the aggro issues.

cihuacoatl

supjeremiah wrote: »

I don't know what you think they're "fixing". All they can do really is fix aggro, which would let us "tank" with other specs. But why? Why would you go another spec when you can tank everything in Conq while doing more damage?

I agree with you...

However it shouldn't be this way... Why have 3 trees when there is no real reason to do anything except Conq. I also cannot imagine what they would do to the other trees to make them even close having the same value as Conq.

elanith

Yeh that's one of the misconceptions that people have about GF, that we just need threat. I already have that in Conq spec.

Do i need more damage mitigation....it would be nice, but its not needed to complete content right now, and i would give up a lot of dps.
Do i need more utility...again would be nice, but its not needed, and again i would loose dps.

The problem with loosing DPS is that because adds come constantly in fights, we have to burn them down at least as fast as they are spawning (or close to it) or we risk being overrun. If i loose dps, that puts a greater share of the dps requirement back onto the other party members. Which sense we are "Tanks" isnt that horrible of an idea, but I dont see where we get all that much more utility or mitigation (or at least not needed utility/dam mitigation).

Now once they come out with Gaunt, or change the current dungeons, things may change. If people are running in and immediately getting face-planted by the boss if they are not full def spec and full def gear, you will see a very large shift over to def spec tanks.

I think anyone looking to play a traditional "Tank" in this game is going to have a long road in front of them. I suspect any changes they are going to make are going to be incremental, and it wont be till quite a few "fixes" down the road that we will start seeing a need to switch over to prot spec GF, and thats if they even decide to have a traditional "Tank" in this game.

maevar1

imobius wrote: »

The viability problems of a GF is not on the GFs end..

Control effects in this game are far to powerful and there are far to many, easily to use, CCs in this game.
Smoke Bomb, Singularity, Freeze and all the other **** ping pong CC effects completely destroy the need to have a tank in your group. When all you can just do is control everything and nullify the danger of them and prevent any damage income.

If CC was far less OR if it had diminishing returns, mobs would become dangerous again, they're no longer control spammed and tanking, positioning and allowing Combat Advantage would be needed again. Making Guardians a wanted addition to a group once more.

However, here comes the other problem with that. Clerics can do that much better.
Their threat generation is insane, easier manage than a Guardian could, so keeping aggro is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> easy for them.
And because Clerics take 40% reduced healing from themselves, just get a second cleric. And while you're at it, you can just stack Astral Shields and become immortal.

So, a combination of Clerics, Rogues and Wizards is significantly more efficient and faster than having a Guardian (or a GWF) in your group.

They need to implement a diminishing returns system for control and tweak some of the aggro issues.

And you don't see a problem with that? It is a major design flaw.....

Let's see, well make the DPS(TR) responsible for CC(SB) not the CW(CONTROL?), the only decent control effect the CW has is AS and Entangle but the problem with entangle is it's single target. Yeah that does a lot of good, when there are 100 ****ing adds, the rest of them flat out suck for a control class, and having the Cleric tank? Who's brainfart is that, the developers! Tank should always be the one controlling the flow of the fight, not Healers, not to mention if you have a TR with heavy DPS, he's either gonna be dead or kiting his *** off, cause the TANK can't pull aggro, but wait, the Cleric can pull em off him, WHAT?

DPS really spends more time in boss fights rolling out of the way and kiting RATHER than doing their job, DPS!!! PvE is complete garbage in this game right now.

Tanks can't tank....
Clerics can tank and heal....
Control wizards have 1 decent control spell for fights.....
Rogues can DPS when their not busy kiting or rolling out of the constant AOE bosses throw down...
and GWF if geared and speecd right CAN do good AOE DPS....

Sorry PWE you got a long freaking way to go before this game is even close to ready for release......

vaichana

Don't know what you are talking about, a GF that knows what it's doing can tank just fine...

snapyb

maevar1 wrote: »

And you don't see a problem with that? It is a major design flaw.....

Let's see, well make the DPS(TR) responsible for CC(SB) not the CW(CONTROL?), the only decent control effect the CW has is AS and Entangle but the problem with entangle is it's single target. Yeah that does a lot of good, when there are 100 ****ing adds, the rest of them flat out suck for a control class, and having the Cleric tank? Who's brainfart is that, the developers! Tank should always be the one controlling the flow of the fight, not Healers, not to mention if you have a TR with heavy DPS, he's either gonna be dead or kiting his *** off, cause the TANK can't pull aggro, but wait, the Cleric can pull em off him, WHAT?

DPS really spends more time in boss fights rolling out of the way and kiting RATHER than doing their job, DPS!!! PvE is complete garbage in this game right now.

Tanks can't tank....
Clerics can tank and heal....
Control wizards have 1 decent control spell for fights.....
Rogues can DPS when their not busy kiting or rolling out of the constant AOE bosses throw down...
and GWF if geared and speecd right CAN do good AOE DPS....

Sorry PWE you got a long freaking way to go before this game is even close to ready for release......

agreed whole heatedly when i read this.

horribul

It's not that they can't tank. It's that tanking, as dungeons are currently designed, is unnecessary.

Which leaves GF's as simply poor DPS'ers.

The fundamental design of Dungeon encounters, with their over-reliance on adds, makes the traditional trinity irrelevant. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but it does gimp GF's horribly

Either make tanks necessary, or make GF's into a competitive DPS class.

maevar1

vaichana wrote: »

Don't know what you are talking about, a GF that knows what it's doing can tank just fine...

Yeah right! Maybe if he's playing solo! Even then he can't even manage to pull the adds off his Cleric companion.

vaichana

I assume you are either an horrible GF or you only play with horrible GF. Nevertheless, your ignorance is baffling.