this is pretty much my experience too (CW)
some TR I can literally just hold down Ray of Frost and... that's it, I win.
others just WTFPWN me in 5 seconds.
all I can figure is, some TR just suck, and others spent a lot of Glory or whatever on PVP gear and potions.
/shrug
Any Trs still in PVP gear using **** pvp pots well..
It just seems to me that everyone who is against nerf threads doesn't realize how most of em are about the same class. Same two classes, maybe. So if people are just whining without justification why isn't there a balanced amount of nerf petitions for all classes?
Another thing that just seems really silly is how they justify it saying "it's what it does" and things like that. So okay, doing damage and killing quickly is what that class is good at, as opposed to the other classes. The problem here is that killing is the name of the game. Kill to win. Killing is the solution to everything in these games. Everything else other classes do is just there because you can't kill fast enough. CC, healing, tanking, it's all there to be able to survive until the enemy dies. It's all. About. Killing. Still don't see why making a class that's significantly better at killing than the rest is a bad idea to begin with? To top it off, that's not all they do. They do have pretty good CC and other utility.
I'm not complaining or anything here, I haven't gotten to any high level to know how the balance is up there, but I'm just saying some people need to try and see things more objectively and logically.
Actually I think TR is the most balanced class at the moment, it should be taken as a reference to balance the other classes cause his only one role is quite well fulfilled without making rogue op.
Wizard needs to be nerf
GWF and GF need to be upped
Cleric needs to be reworked a little to be more useful
i dont think anyone need nerfing on a whole that would take away form the pve side (who wants it to take longer to kill the t2 bosses)?. instead there needs to be a difference in the way dmg is caluculated for hitting people as apposed to mobs.
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awwyissmfbcMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
There's only two problems I see with TR: The amount of damage that cloud of steel does (and being able to do it from stealth.) I mean, c'mon, really? Okay, so a melee character has a ranged attack, that's cool. That ranged attack being powerful enough to shred a GF's block meter in 4-5 knife throws? Nah man. The amount of damage their dailies do in a pvp setting is sometimes a little high, but that's probably from the crazy debuffs everyone has TBH. Everything else for TRs is fine. Same could be said with CWs and ray of enfeeblement and ice knife (tone it down a bit in pvp imo.)
That aside, everyone has something to counter damage or cc, etc.
There are a few things that need to be tweaked (not huge nerfs by any means) but seriously nothing to cry over. Get over it.
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ashenarkMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited May 2013
These nerf Trick threads are ridiculous and annoying. They also mostly come from other classes whining about them being bad in PvP. As a Trick who has PvPed from level 20-60 I'm going to shed some light on this thread.
1: Trick isn't an overpowered class. It's the enchantments that are ****ing you over in PvP.
A lot of the stuff Trick has to offer in PvP can be done by a GWF or GF just as easily. Trick only has three main ways to deal a lot of burst damage: Lashing Blade, Shocking Execution, or Deft Strike into one of the other two options. Trick only has two ways real ways to deal damage to targets from range: Deft Strike and Cloud of Steel. You could argue that we have Shadow Strike and Impact Shot, but Shadow Strike is limited in usefulness at range whereas Impact Shot isn't as worth putting in a slot when compared to the utility of Deft Strike. So let's take a look at Cloud of Steel: you have 12 charges on it with each charge recharging after 3 seconds of cooldown. For an At-Will this is pretty limiting. If you take a look at the damage you'll notice that it actually has a lower base damage than Sky Flourish. So why does Cloud of Steel do so much damage? It's because as you hit the target with more knives they increase, very slowly, in damage. I haven't actually checked the numbers to be sure on how much it increases in total, but I would guess that the final hit does at most 1.3x more damage than the first hit.
So why is it that classes are dying to a full barrage of Cloud of Steel? You're getting hit by a full set of 12 charges while doing nothing about it. When a Trick uses Cloud of Steel he has to stand still. If you're getting hit, dodge, run, use whatever skills you need to in order to mitigate damage. That's what the pros at PvP do.
2: The amount of damage we do in our burst isn't enough to kill a class unless you're doing something majorly wrong or they have Enchantments making your life a living hell.
Let's take a look at a normal scenario of a Trick vs Trick. Trick 1 spots Trick 2. Trick 1 goes in for a Cloud of Steel. Trick 2 dodges/stealths to avoid this. Trick 1 suspects Trick 2 to come up behind him and stealths. Trick 2 is almost out of stealth and uses Impossible to Catch to prevent early burst damage, and to prevent a waste of stealth bonus. Trick 1 waits for ItC to expire and attacks with ItC and Deft Strike. Trick 2 dodges what he assumes will be an incoming Lashing then uses Smoke Bomb on the incoming Trick 1. Trick 1 runs into the smoke, tries to escape but gets hit with a Lashing Blade, lowing his health down to about half due to a crit, then gets hit with Shocking Execution for the finisher.
This is a standard scenario that you will most likely see in Trick vs Trick. One Trick will make a tactical error and die to burst damage because he can't do anything about it. This is what Trick does. We wait until we can burst you down by letting you make the mistake. Now, I must ask: what was the tactical error in the situation I just described? I'll give you a sec to think about it.
...
It was the initial stealth that both Tricks did.
When two good Trick fight then there is a lot of tactical dodging and not a lot of stealth unless they need to get away or they are forced to pop ItC. Stealth is only useful for surprise attacks. Not so much for actual fights unless you need the stealth effect of an ability, like ItC.
3: A good CW, Cleric, GF, GWF, or another Trick can destroy a Trick.
You can't just run into a situation blindly and expect to win every time. A good player will always beat a bad one 1v1 assuming there is no health/damage advantage given to either player. So many times have I been in PvP matches where I see people just run into 3 people alone expecting to win. That's not how you play PvP.
Now let us try to understand what I'm saying here: Trick doesn't need a nerf. PvP needs to be tweaked. When we enter into a PvP match we need to be balanced in a way so our skills do more equal damage and have more fair effects overall. We shouldn't be going in with a similar amount of HP/damage/CC we have in PvE. Damage overall needs to be lowered a touch and weapon/armour enchantments like Plaguefire need to have their effects removed in PvP. Aside from that, people need to stop *****ing when they lose against a class and instead learn how to play. /me grumbles about how he's surrounded by idiots and children
These nerf Trick threads are ridiculous and annoying. They also mostly come from other classes whining about them being bad in PvP. As a Trick who has PvPed from level 20-60 I'm going to shed some light on this thread.
1: Trick isn't an overpowered class. It's the enchantments that are ****ing you over in PvP.
A lot of the stuff Trick has to offer in PvP can be done by a GWF or GF just as easily. Trick only has three main ways to deal a lot of burst damage: Lashing Blade, Shocking Execution, or Deft Strike into one of the other two options. Trick only has two ways real ways to deal damage to targets from range: Deft Strike and Cloud of Steel. You could argue that we have Shadow Strike and Impact Shot, but Shadow Strike is limited in usefulness at range whereas Impact Shot isn't as worth putting in a slot when compared to the utility of Deft Strike. So let's take a look at Cloud of Steel: you have 12 charges on it with each charge recharging after 3 seconds of cooldown. For an At-Will this is pretty limiting. If you take a look at the damage you'll notice that it actually has a lower base damage than Sky Flourish. So why does Cloud of Steel do so much damage? It's because as you hit the target with more knives they increase, very slowly, in damage. I haven't actually checked the numbers to be sure on how much it increases in total, but I would guess that the final hit does at most 1.3x more damage than the first hit.
So why is it that classes are dying to a full barrage of Cloud of Steel? You're getting hit by a full set of 12 charges while doing nothing about it. When a Trick uses Cloud of Steel he has to stand still. If you're getting hit, dodge, run, use whatever skills you need to in order to mitigate damage. That's what the pros at PvP do.
2: The amount of damage we do in our burst isn't enough to kill a class unless you're doing something majorly wrong or they have Enchantments making your life a living hell.
Let's take a look at a normal scenario of a Trick vs Trick. Trick 1 spots Trick 2. Trick 1 goes in for a Cloud of Steel. Trick 2 dodges/stealths to avoid this. Trick 1 suspects Trick 2 to come up behind him and stealths. Trick 2 is almost out of stealth and uses Impossible to Catch to prevent early burst damage, and to prevent a waste of stealth bonus. Trick 1 waits for ItC to expire and attacks with ItC and Deft Strike. Trick 2 dodges what he assumes will be an incoming Lashing then uses Smoke Bomb on the incoming Trick 1. Trick 1 runs into the smoke, tries to escape but gets hit with a Lashing Blade, lowing his health down to about half due to a crit, then gets hit with Shocking Execution for the finisher.
This is a standard scenario that you will most likely see in Trick vs Trick. One Trick will make a tactical error and die to burst damage because he can't do anything about it. This is what Trick does. We wait until we can burst you down by letting you make the mistake. Now, I must ask: what was the tactical error in the situation I just described? I'll give you a sec to think about it.
...
It was the initial stealth that both Tricks did.
When two good Trick fight then there is a lot of tactical dodging and not a lot of stealth unless they need to get away or they are forced to pop ItC. Stealth is only useful for surprise attacks. Not so much for actual fights unless you need the stealth effect of an ability, like ItC.
3: A good CW, Cleric, GF, GWF, or another Trick can destroy a Trick.
You can't just run into a situation blindly and expect to win every time. A good player will always beat a bad one 1v1 assuming there is no health/damage advantage given to either player. So many times have I been in PvP matches where I see people just run into 3 people alone expecting to win. That's not how you play PvP.
Now let us try to understand what I'm saying here: Trick doesn't need a nerf. PvP needs to be tweaked. When we enter into a PvP match we need to be balanced in a way so our skills do more equal damage and have more fair effects overall. We shouldn't be going in with a similar amount of HP/damage/CC we have in PvE. Damage overall needs to be lowered a touch and weapon/armour enchantments like Plaguefire need to have their effects removed in PvP. Aside from that, people need to stop *****ing when they lose against a class and instead learn how to play. /me grumbles about how he's surrounded by idiots and children
not sure if this is relevant, but when i had my level 54 gear, i did around 20k damage with shocking execution. i had about 1k power then. then 2 days ago, i hit 60 and immediately bought my lvl 60 pvp gear. i now crit for 60k with shocking execution, 10k instead of my 3k with lashing blade, and 2k with my normal attacks. not sure if this matters, but for me personally, its a huge surprise to be actually able to 3 shot anyone compared to before when i didnt have my lvl 60 gear cuz i struggled so much to even do damage back then. maybe part of the reason TR seems OP is cuz of this huge jump in damage output? btw my current power is around 1.7k
not sure if this is relevant, but when i had my level 54 gear, i did around 20k damage with shocking execution. i had about 1k power then. then 2 days ago, i hit 60 and immediately bought my lvl 60 pvp gear. i now crit for 60k with shocking execution, 10k instead of my 3k with lashing blade, and 2k with my normal attacks. not sure if this matters, but for me personally, its a huge surprise to be actually able to 3 shot anyone compared to before when i didnt have my lvl 60 gear cuz i struggled so much to even do damage back then. maybe part of the reason TR seems OP is cuz of this huge jump in damage output? btw my current power is around 1.7k
Such a liar. 60k with pvp gear.... LOL! To a level 1 mob? To a naked player? To mobs/players with less than 10% health left?
I have 5k+ power and I still don't do 60k crits with shocking execution to people at full health.
TR is not OP, 60k crits are at those tanks who are missing 99 percent hp so it is notrelevant, TR does alot dmg but all classes do same thing. Even tank can stunlock you! Sins are allways top with fraggs cuz they are in hide and finishing targets. But if any class have some advantages then it can only be GWF or GF. Dont think that i am random **** who doesnt know what i am speakig about. My scores are mostly around 20 fraggs and my few deaths. Mostly I dominate but to be honest vs good GF i dont stand chance without daily cuz they can easily find you in stealth and one knockdown means dead.
This topic is **** topic. Lets post our highest pvp scores:
Im playing CW have no problem for killing TR, I can take down them without any HP loss,
ONLY IF THEY NOT USE DAILY
Daily crit me over 25k, this is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, over than my health hahaha! What can I do? lol
Every game has these same senseless posts on Rogues.
Let me give you some insight after hundreds of hours of PvP:
1) A skilled and gear Guardian Warrior will destroy a Rogue with ease. A SKILLED GW knows
exactly when to pop block (hint: on all of a rogues telegraphed abilities). Worse yet, their
damage with the right gear is unreal.
2) A skilled CW can destroy a rogue regardless of anyone claiming "no way I beat them all of the
time!" Oh by the way, Ive had many a CW nuke me from full to zero before I even got close to
them (10k GS).
Im not sure what class the OP is, but whatever it is, I would suggest reading some forums
on the combo as opposed to crying overpowered.
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visceraxiusMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 9Arc User
edited May 2013
Every MMO I play, the rogue is the OP one designed for 10 year olds. I got hit for just under 9k on my cleric and then he proceeded to 3 shot someone else. They need balancing, anyone who thinks otherwise is a TR who thinks they are pro for reading a lame guide and pressing E.
Let me guess, you were not standing in your healing circle. If you were, a cleric
can take a combo plus and execution from a rogue and not die. Unless you were
already at half health, which many people don't state when they cry about getting
1 or 2 shotted.
Such a liar. 60k with pvp gear.... LOL! To a level 1 mob? To a naked player? To mobs/players with less than 10% health left?
I have 5k+ power and I still don't do 60k crits with shocking execution to people at full health.
Gotta love all these deceiving/madeup post.
58789 crit, rounded up to 60k. dude had about 20%hp left and was a guardian fighter. idk if shocking execution is based on amount of hp missing or % missing hp but i do 60k crits on mobs in lair of mad dragon as well, but when they have 20% or less hp
Comments
They obviously suck too.
Another thing that just seems really silly is how they justify it saying "it's what it does" and things like that. So okay, doing damage and killing quickly is what that class is good at, as opposed to the other classes. The problem here is that killing is the name of the game. Kill to win. Killing is the solution to everything in these games. Everything else other classes do is just there because you can't kill fast enough. CC, healing, tanking, it's all there to be able to survive until the enemy dies. It's all. About. Killing. Still don't see why making a class that's significantly better at killing than the rest is a bad idea to begin with? To top it off, that's not all they do. They do have pretty good CC and other utility.
I'm not complaining or anything here, I haven't gotten to any high level to know how the balance is up there, but I'm just saying some people need to try and see things more objectively and logically.
It's call tactics =.=" If you are too cheap to get pvp pots... not their fault rite?
Wizard needs to be nerf
GWF and GF need to be upped
Cleric needs to be reworked a little to be more useful
Next.
That aside, everyone has something to counter damage or cc, etc.
There are a few things that need to be tweaked (not huge nerfs by any means) but seriously nothing to cry over. Get over it.
1: Trick isn't an overpowered class. It's the enchantments that are ****ing you over in PvP.
A lot of the stuff Trick has to offer in PvP can be done by a GWF or GF just as easily. Trick only has three main ways to deal a lot of burst damage: Lashing Blade, Shocking Execution, or Deft Strike into one of the other two options. Trick only has two ways real ways to deal damage to targets from range: Deft Strike and Cloud of Steel. You could argue that we have Shadow Strike and Impact Shot, but Shadow Strike is limited in usefulness at range whereas Impact Shot isn't as worth putting in a slot when compared to the utility of Deft Strike. So let's take a look at Cloud of Steel: you have 12 charges on it with each charge recharging after 3 seconds of cooldown. For an At-Will this is pretty limiting. If you take a look at the damage you'll notice that it actually has a lower base damage than Sky Flourish. So why does Cloud of Steel do so much damage? It's because as you hit the target with more knives they increase, very slowly, in damage. I haven't actually checked the numbers to be sure on how much it increases in total, but I would guess that the final hit does at most 1.3x more damage than the first hit.
So why is it that classes are dying to a full barrage of Cloud of Steel? You're getting hit by a full set of 12 charges while doing nothing about it. When a Trick uses Cloud of Steel he has to stand still. If you're getting hit, dodge, run, use whatever skills you need to in order to mitigate damage. That's what the pros at PvP do.
2: The amount of damage we do in our burst isn't enough to kill a class unless you're doing something majorly wrong or they have Enchantments making your life a living hell.
Let's take a look at a normal scenario of a Trick vs Trick. Trick 1 spots Trick 2. Trick 1 goes in for a Cloud of Steel. Trick 2 dodges/stealths to avoid this. Trick 1 suspects Trick 2 to come up behind him and stealths. Trick 2 is almost out of stealth and uses Impossible to Catch to prevent early burst damage, and to prevent a waste of stealth bonus. Trick 1 waits for ItC to expire and attacks with ItC and Deft Strike. Trick 2 dodges what he assumes will be an incoming Lashing then uses Smoke Bomb on the incoming Trick 1. Trick 1 runs into the smoke, tries to escape but gets hit with a Lashing Blade, lowing his health down to about half due to a crit, then gets hit with Shocking Execution for the finisher.
This is a standard scenario that you will most likely see in Trick vs Trick. One Trick will make a tactical error and die to burst damage because he can't do anything about it. This is what Trick does. We wait until we can burst you down by letting you make the mistake. Now, I must ask: what was the tactical error in the situation I just described? I'll give you a sec to think about it.
...
It was the initial stealth that both Tricks did.
When two good Trick fight then there is a lot of tactical dodging and not a lot of stealth unless they need to get away or they are forced to pop ItC. Stealth is only useful for surprise attacks. Not so much for actual fights unless you need the stealth effect of an ability, like ItC.
3: A good CW, Cleric, GF, GWF, or another Trick can destroy a Trick.
You can't just run into a situation blindly and expect to win every time. A good player will always beat a bad one 1v1 assuming there is no health/damage advantage given to either player. So many times have I been in PvP matches where I see people just run into 3 people alone expecting to win. That's not how you play PvP.
Now let us try to understand what I'm saying here: Trick doesn't need a nerf. PvP needs to be tweaked. When we enter into a PvP match we need to be balanced in a way so our skills do more equal damage and have more fair effects overall. We shouldn't be going in with a similar amount of HP/damage/CC we have in PvE. Damage overall needs to be lowered a touch and weapon/armour enchantments like Plaguefire need to have their effects removed in PvP. Aside from that, people need to stop *****ing when they lose against a class and instead learn how to play. /me grumbles about how he's surrounded by idiots and children
not sure if this is relevant, but when i had my level 54 gear, i did around 20k damage with shocking execution. i had about 1k power then. then 2 days ago, i hit 60 and immediately bought my lvl 60 pvp gear. i now crit for 60k with shocking execution, 10k instead of my 3k with lashing blade, and 2k with my normal attacks. not sure if this matters, but for me personally, its a huge surprise to be actually able to 3 shot anyone compared to before when i didnt have my lvl 60 gear cuz i struggled so much to even do damage back then. maybe part of the reason TR seems OP is cuz of this huge jump in damage output? btw my current power is around 1.7k
Such a liar. 60k with pvp gear.... LOL! To a level 1 mob? To a naked player? To mobs/players with less than 10% health left?
I have 5k+ power and I still don't do 60k crits with shocking execution to people at full health.
Gotta love all these deceiving/madeup post.
This topic is **** topic. Lets post our highest pvp scores:
ONLY IF THEY NOT USE DAILY
Daily crit me over 25k, this is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>, over than my health hahaha! What can I do? lol
Let me give you some insight after hundreds of hours of PvP:
1) A skilled and gear Guardian Warrior will destroy a Rogue with ease. A SKILLED GW knows
exactly when to pop block (hint: on all of a rogues telegraphed abilities). Worse yet, their
damage with the right gear is unreal.
2) A skilled CW can destroy a rogue regardless of anyone claiming "no way I beat them all of the
time!" Oh by the way, Ive had many a CW nuke me from full to zero before I even got close to
them (10k GS).
Im not sure what class the OP is, but whatever it is, I would suggest reading some forums
on the combo as opposed to crying overpowered.
can take a combo plus and execution from a rogue and not die. Unless you were
already at half health, which many people don't state when they cry about getting
1 or 2 shotted.
SE into full hp char? rly? :facepalm:
Seze - Rogue - Necropolis -
58789 crit, rounded up to 60k. dude had about 20%hp left and was a guardian fighter. idk if shocking execution is based on amount of hp missing or % missing hp but i do 60k crits on mobs in lair of mad dragon as well, but when they have 20% or less hp