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PvP balance changes
terribad249
Member Posts: 11 Arc User
Obviously my opinion on what needs to happen for pvp to be more balanced will vary from one person to the next but here are my idea's for what should happen anyway
Rogues;
-Decreased duration of silence on skills with the exception of smoke bomb
-Decreased base damage of shocking execution or reduced damage modifier for missing health
Control Wizard;
Ray of Enfeeblement needs to get hit by the nerf stick hard as HAMSTER, this allows the evaporation of anyone effected by it.
Great Weapon Fighter;
Needs a buff apparently, don't encounter many of them who don't just faceroll into opponents and die so I can't comment on what needs to be improved upon.
Guardian Fighter;
My opinion on this class may be biased but frankly I think they're fine as is, it'd be nice to have the feats working properly tho, as i'm currently missing 4 AC from the shield defense feat.
Clerics; Again;
Don't really know enough to comment, they seem ok in their current state to me.
Feel free to add your input!
Rogues;
-Decreased duration of silence on skills with the exception of smoke bomb
-Decreased base damage of shocking execution or reduced damage modifier for missing health
Control Wizard;
Ray of Enfeeblement needs to get hit by the nerf stick hard as HAMSTER, this allows the evaporation of anyone effected by it.
Great Weapon Fighter;
Needs a buff apparently, don't encounter many of them who don't just faceroll into opponents and die so I can't comment on what needs to be improved upon.
Guardian Fighter;
My opinion on this class may be biased but frankly I think they're fine as is, it'd be nice to have the feats working properly tho, as i'm currently missing 4 AC from the shield defense feat.
Clerics; Again;
Don't really know enough to comment, they seem ok in their current state to me.
Feel free to add your input!
Post edited by terribad249 on
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Comments
Are you sure you aren't talking about Lashing Blade or Dazing Strike? I have a feeling you're just lumping all high-damage moves into one due to ignorance of how the class works.
All their attacks can be dodged/blocked or walked away from. Yea their daily does crazy damage, but all the dailies are crazy.
CW:
Again can be dodged and bloc...oh wait blocking it still applies the mitigation. Sorry that their is a skill in the game that prevents the GF from holding down shift all day long.
GWF:
I've come across some that are hard to beat...but they are few and far between. Most act as a hit, not very hard, and run, very quickly, class. So I agree they need some kind of buff to single target damage or mitigation. Too many bad ones for it to just be lack of player skill.
GF:
I think they are ok. I feel like they need a buff but I think it is because I dont like the play style more than a real need.
DC:
Get rid of stacking *** Seal and they are fine.
If there are fellow GF's and GWF's in the enemy mix, the fight becomes more "balanced". Of course it then all depends on classes in my Group
So in a nutshell I have been in many wins and many losses with both classes and really, isn't that what it's all about?
Reduce rogues,GWF, CW damage with 40% on all abilities
GF: Reduce his maximum HP with 40%
Cleric: none seeing the already reduced our abilities with 40%
OR
Remove the healing debuff from clerics, it is rediculess that the main healer class cannot heal itself.
Stop trying to fight three people at the same time....
TR: Fix shocking execution. It needs to take gear into account or be unaffected by feat mods. as it is, if you really cheese out your spec, you can finish almost anyone at 3/4 health, and get that daily back really quick. That or place a straight up cool down on the daily, which would totally require alot of balance. They also have to fix the delay in the pvp combat and how it gives an unfair advantage to TR and CW as they can get hit by an attack and dodge it after it lands on their screen. They need to fix how rogue debuffs apply and make sure they stack properly (yes i finally got to a buff for the class i play). I think overall TR is well balanced with the exception of the above.
CW: I only have experience fighting these so point out specific abilities is difficult. I dont have a problem with the overall control effects, i just feel they do too much damage. I would suggest tuning the control effects with diminishing returns or nerf damage some. As a controller they really shouldnt have both.
GWF: I actually believe if you re balanced the above classes the GWF will be a much more viable class as their survivability will increase. that being said, the ability to become more squishy in exchange for more damage would be nice to see them implement in the class feat tree. I find they are a tough fight one on one and have a dynamic effect on group skrimishes if the above two classes were fixed i think they would be a handful.
DC: This class needs a damage buff. As a rogue I will kill these guys one on one at least 2 times without even thinking about my health. That being said, I think the healing is fine, i love having one on my team, i really feel they make a difference in the group game types. And as others have pointed out, fix the modifiers on that shield ability when you have 2 clerics. If execute is nerfed before this ability is fixed 2 clerics will be required in pvp as they will be immortal.
GF: I think this may be the best balanced class in the game right now. I feel they are very capable of good burst damage, but if fought smartly, you can get away and return to win. THis is another class that is played poorly by so many, but in the hands of a seasoned pvp player is can frustrate you and with any other class is a great 2v2 team. The stun locks may be a tad op if you rebalance the other classes, so i hope they are keeping a close eye, IMHO this class will be the top tier if TR and CW is nerfed.
These were all just my view, I hope the overall philosophy of the devs favors buffs on underpowered classes not just nerfs on the overpowered ones. Balance needs to address many issues at once in order to be fair to the community as a whole. I also hope they introduce a way to top gear your character by only playing PVP, as its kinda lame to get smoked by someone who got better gear than you by playing pve and getting the best enchants and tier 2. These need to be able to drop or be purchased by doing PVP.
Having a team just constantly run away and your team stomping them but barely pull ahead in points while holding two points is ridiculous. Give more points for kills - its Player versus Player, not player chasing player while waiting to cap nodes all day.
Give the kills more points.
Give defending more points.
The last one is aimed at GWF and GF mainly.
The amount of times I've seen a good GF hold off 3-4 people on a node while defending it, and land at the bottom of the scoreboard each game is really not conducive to having GF's PvP.
affffffffffff,pvp this game is ridiculous,cleric,guardian e GWF no have damage ...
wizz much damage
and rogue is powerfull.
need balance classes fast or in in 30 days only exist rogues!
I am confidant that the devs are not just catering to this type of player, as they want a polished and long lasting balance in their pvp.
and i have to say, my premade would shame most groups of only rogues. PVP isnt about kills.
Well, many nerds idiots who do not know anything MMORPG and D & D.
A bunch of idiots here saying this some **** ...
1 - Rogue: need to pull this magic of silence based on the original d & d and other MMORPG this class does not have this kind of skill, take a 5% nerf the skills of binder and class as more overpower the game ...
2 - Mage: Need to increase the time that the spells can be used skills and decrease 5% demage.
3 - GF: this class only needs a little more demage
4 - GWF: This class needs a lot of adjustments have, Increase Demage of skills would be a good way to improve the class.
4 - Cleric: need to slightly increase the binder and improve their advocacy skills so as it currently is being used to heal, a class is not fully playable.
Note: nerd rage when I see some people want to read this comment because increasingly more and more rogue overpower ... nerd rage in 3, 2, 1.
- Get rid of mounts
- Reduce base crit damage bonus on EVERYONE to <+50%.
DC:
- Cannot be affected by Astral Shields. Increase AoE of AS. Increased self-healing
* DCs should be the weakest link in the party setup, taking him out should be a core objective in any pvp match. Less vulnerable as a whole to brute force since he no longer needs to sit in the rough and tumble of the AS circlejerk. Bad against burst (ala rogues) good against sustained damage with improved self-healing.
GF:
-100% perfect. Aside from the buggy shield-blocking introduced last patch
TR:
-Reduce damage on at-wills.
-Greatly increase slow on smoke
-Daze only blocks encounters/shifts.
* Refocus towards burst-damage, at-wills should do little to no damage on well defended targets, making him a very poor brawler.
GWFs:
- Reduce damage on Takedown/Crescendo, Remove stun feat on Flourish.
- Increase damage on At-wills
- Unstoppable passively builds out of combat, Stamina refills when activated
* Refocus away from burst damage and cc-chains. Built for survival and sustained damage, has increased mobility to make sustained damage usable.
CW:
- Entangling Force increases damage taken from your party. Becomes a channeling spell.
- Reduce damage all around
- Frozen targets are invulnerable
- Decrease meter to allow 2 consecutive teleports at most. Double-tap shift to freeze self with half meter.
* Because we're going to get a ranged striker later. CWs currently substituting for that position, will have to leave.
i aggreeeeeeeeeeeeeee
dAt EngRisH broseph
I like your suggestion on daze, thats really clever, the ability for dailys to be used would really help. Sadly if you do this and nerf at will damage on TR you would be left with a very squishy dagger thrower who would only be able to kill with encounters and dailys that have the longest cooldowns in the game. They would need to address the cooldowns on encounter powers if they nerf TR at wills or maybe make combat advantage give a big boost to these.
You're right and I maintain that TRs should be able to 1shot certain classes under special circumstances. Maybe by tacking on a combat advantage multiplicative buff to First Strike or another encounter for a short while after breaking stealth. Would make Cha rogues interesting, possibly doubling CA bonuses (along with cc resist). But at-will damage needs to take a hit to keep them from being competent brawlers under Astral shield.
First the gf agreat class that is usefull without have good dps.One on one it is always possible to beat any class but not 100%.I beat gwfs 9 times outa ten.Rogues are a challenge but killable. One on one I can take most mages(there are some nasty ones out there though).Clerics with astral shield are actually kinda hard as gf dps isnt usually enough too kill them before backup arrives.Other gfs along drawn out process that usually is decided by skill or who gets backup first.
Group cambat is interesting because killing people isnt your primary goal. Gfs are one of the best classes to solo take a base and then make the whole enemy team waste time taking it from him. While fighting in a group knocking people out of the circle is more important than chasing someone down for the kill.
There's waaaay too many mitigation debuffs.
Armor Pen as a stat already does a great job of things.
Plaguefire being the cheapest enchant.
Shocking Execution ignoring defense (it shouldn't) if it's actually used as an execute then the massive dmg it gains at low health should already help it overcome any defenses.
Ray of Ridiculous Damage. As a CW I can tell you this ability is extremely overpowered, it makes people take WAAAY too much damage, and the damage on the dot itself is very solid and can be beefed up quite a bit as well. It does too many things and should lose the massive damage amp it gains, keep the dot dmg and Damage Debuff.
Tons of other feats/passives that give a ton of defense reduction procs.
CW needs to have more damage baked into it's encounters rather than all the passives/procs it has on top of Magic Missile spam. It's simply too easy to get a f*ck ton of damage as a CW and still bring a ton of CC/utility. People keep calling for CC nerfs which doesn't make sense, this class is SUPPOSED to be about Control. Thing is the only good feats and passives are all about massive damage gains, and even the CC encounters do good damage (choke/chill strike).
Of course, that's partially because of the paragon path being a DPS one, which explains the huge damage class features. But CW needs to be able to choose between just DMG or CC and not be able to have so much of both. CW was my first class and I can tell you it's ridiculous ATM.
This also means the Oppressor feat tree needs to be better.
Anyways, back to the block meter. Blocking gimps our damage flat out. With other abilities (green beam, smoke bomb, etc.) we die just as fast as everyone else (being 1-shot through block at full health by shocking execution anyone?) A couple thousand extra health doesn't help, so to the guy that said nerf our hp, you're crazy. To top that off, the block meter for a dps GF means exactly nothing. A geared TR will run through it in a couple knife throws, and a CW in one rotation of magic missle.
It was already mentioned about the block situation, but I'll throw it out there for people that may not know what happened. Basically block was moved server side, which creates some severe issues blocking on demand. Sometimes it just simply doesn't go off.
In regards to our CC, all of it can be, and quite often is evaded. Dodge/teleport/shift away from it and win. Our CC is only very effective with a good group to go with it.
In regards to our "infinite gap closer" 'Threatening Rush' I would say a couple things. First of all, it's an 'at will' that does "okay" damage, just okay. Second and most importantly, It's prone to huge rubber banding issues making it meh most of the time.
DPS GFs can be both fun and very effective when played well (which sadly is not often). We are in a good place, but could definitely use some love in some areas.
And a GF on our team had the same stuff (unenchanted) and not hitting as hard. It is gross. At least the guy on our team reported it, since it clearly is OP for low level PvP.
Oh, and if this is supposed to be 'incentive' to Pay to Win...I mean buy a founder's pack...yeah, I will dig in my heels and FULLY commit to playing this game so FREE that cryptic will never see a dime of my money.
That is absolutely crazy. And if all the other classes get the same level 60 gear as well...that's...that's just sick.
That sounds like an exploit, not a balance issue.
I agree PVP by GS would be helpful. Being a new 60 and being "popped" sucks. Either way the grind for the gladiator gear wasn't bad. I now get to do the "popping"
First...CW's dmg is WAY WAY WAY too high even without Ray of Enfeeblement...they need a dmg nerf BADLY and Ray of Enfeeble needs to do ZERO dmg for the debuff it provides. In addition to this they also need a nerf on Blink...im sorry but you are a RANGED - CONTROL class that has more dodges than any other class...does this make no sense to anyone else also...they are ranged and have tons of cc but somehow also have the most dodges....makes no sense at all and because of this their survivability is through the roof. Lower DPS and fix blink PLZ and CW's will be what they should be...A CONTROL CLASS.
Second - Rogues desperately need a dmg nerf...IN PVP...not pve...I dont know exactly what could be done to fix rogues but I think a general daily nerf to them would help...maybe a daily nerf across the board...too strong too easy to get.
GWF - Now if you nerfed the above two GWF may not need any buffs to abilities or dmg BUT they do need help in the dodge / sprint department. The fact that they dont have a dodge in general is worrisome to me to start...in pve and pvp. You could argue that they have unstoppable so they cant be cc'd but it lasts entirely too short for pvp purposes in conjunction with sprint...either make sprint last longer or buff unstoppable PLEASE. Also, for GWF to be viable they have to basically pick 2 or 3 cc encounters to be effective and doesn't allow them to really do anything outside of those abilities so you basically sit around stunning people until you get a daily ability and then you hope to gib someone...not a fun style of play imo.
Cleric and GF are better than people think, you just gotta spec and gear for PvP.
And thus it became, that the only viable setup for PvE after such enlightened changes was 5 GF groups.
I find the amount of cluelessness flying around on this "PvP balance changes" thread... disturbing. Why suggest changes to PvP when it is painfully, blatantly obvious that you have not the slightest clue on what you are talking about? (Not referring to the quoted only, it applies to the vast majority of posts in this thread). Start considering that you might just be a bad player, and that PvP in this game is on average more balanced than most MMORPGs out there. Astonishing, isn't it?
Also, it would be appreciated to see the basic grammar brutalization cease and desist. Although I suppose it is too much to ask for the average 10 years old "PvP expert" posting on this forum.
I say BS, you are not a rogue. The line that gives you away, is, "get that daily back really quick." Male cow HAMSTER you are not a rogue but you are complaining about them. Nerf the rogue any more than it already has been (3 times already) and it will be useless.
There are classes that know how to face rogue, learn how to face them or quit playing.
General:
Someone spoke of removing mount i would suggest normalizing their speed ... Everyone can pay for a mount at 60 and it really give some rythm to the games, but i must admit it gives an unfair advantage to people that have a fast mount.
CW
Due to the very limited array of power we can have during a match, CW are pretty much forced into the few single target powers we have (we have really few) because the AE one do less dmg, have longer cast times, are more complicated to use. An AE power would be usefull a couple times during a match and would put us at a disadvantage the rest of the time. So as PVP is atm 5vs5 most combat are small skirmishes and do not take advantage of most mages powers. We end up using ray of enfeeblement as main tool since its boh powerfull and single target. I tried a lot of power but never could match other class in dps or in survival with AE spells.
Another aspect which put CW in a bind is the weakness of our CC. This may come to a surprise to most non CW, but we end up facing classes that have immunities to CC that outlast our life span (Rogues and GWF specifically, GF to a lesser extent). In the end we have CC to counter other wizards or clerics. This is quite a gamble to load spells for 2 class out of 5. So again we go for straight up DPS that bring us back again to the same set of spells that do high dmg.
So basically we still hold some CC but most CW dont load heavy on them since its to their disadvantage most of the time. I tried a few group CC and they were usefull against group team that held together, but most matches are too spread to really use those powers. Maybe with Gauntlegrym introduction the balance will switch to group spells and most likely change the perception of CW (we REALLY have too much CC).
This brings me to a complaint many made about CW that they were CCed until dead... which is usually 1-2 spells. During closed beta the CCs were much shorter in duration and it was much more a question of interrupting a cast or taking the upper hand momentaneously than disabling someone. I liked that and it made it possible to stack many CC without being disabled forever. I would suggest they reduce all CC down from their actual duration for PVP. Freeze is maybe the only CC that remained painfully short (i took feats to enhance my ray of frost to discover that freeze lasted a split second barely enough to interrupt a cast for an otherwise useless multi-second channel (You can nerf freeze all you want people are not speccing for it anyway)).
The Paragon Feat tree that seem to be designed for PVP is the weakest of them oddly since chill is notoriously weak. Fights last 2-5 secs usually, you cant build up chill during 1-2 secs you are already on the way out by then.
I must agree that Ray of enfeeblement is too powerfull but again it pretty much puts us on par with rogues since we are not CCing much of anything at least we can kill stuff. Smoke bombs, and rogue daze or the GF knockdowns and even GWF stuns are much more usefull than most CW CCs.
To my taste balance is pretty well kept between the classes with the exception of the cleric who is totally reliant on a group to survive. The rest of the classes fare pretty well against a class or another, while having a hard time against some other class.
I'll list my perceived annoyance for some othe classes here:
TR:
Consistently immune to CC... a bit too much ...
Out of stealth CC (Daze/smoke bomb) is a free kill for decently geared rogues on mages and clerics.
GWF:
CC immunity again... hard to outlast it due to stun and speed.
A lot less irritating than rogue since we can see them comming.
GF:
Until i discovered Ray of enfeeblement they seemed unkillable. It seem the only usable tool to kill them in a reasonnable amount of time. Knockdown chains is pretty deadly on a wizard ... you often dont regain control from 100 to 0 % even if it takes 3-5 secs for them to finish you.
DC:
Poor them ... They are so powerfull yet so lame when they are alone. Some cleric will just stop fighting when you catch them alone so they can respawn faster. On the other hand a group with a cleric against a group without has a huge advantage (and i'm not speaking of stacking clerics). With bigger PVP games this might get mitigated but for 5 vs 5 its a bit like dungeons where they are needed.
You guys who suggest this don't realize one thing. This is a cash shop game. The incentive is for those who want the edge pay real cash for a faster mount. This builds incentive for everyone to pay cash for a faster mount. If you remove mounts from pvp, I agree it would make pvp a bit more balanced but there is ZERO incentive to buy a faster mount, especially if you are lvl 60.