PVP - Power X Armor penetration

fmgallii

So... I cant decide what I should have as enchantment.

Right now I have full Power stones but yesterday I saw a TR full of Armor penetration and geez he was hitting really really hard.

I would like to hear from you guys what you think. Forget about PVE ... think about PVP...

Power x Armor penetration... what would be better?

I did a little test with those dummies at the PVP store. I took a piece of offence armor and put a lvl 5 Power stones and hit the dummy 10 times (not counting crit) and then changed the stones to a lvl 5 armor penetration stone. The result was:

Power: average after 10 hits 1250 dmg
Armor Penetration: average after 10 hit 1520 dmg

I know it seens obvious that AP seens better but i think I am missing something... I could use a little help here.

Thanks

kikoodutroa8

Power is probably the most overrated stat in these forums.

trickshaw

First off, dummies have no mitigation, so your numbers won't work. Secondly your sample size was 10 hits so your numbers... again... won't work. Thirdly, Armor Pen rocks.

fmgallii

trickshaw wrote: »

First off, dummies have no mitigation, so your numbers won't work. Secondly your sample size was 10 hits so your numbers... again... won't work. Thirdly, Armor Pen rocks.

Ty for your replay.

Like i said I didnt say it was a great test. It was just something to start with.

I know dummmies have no mitigation so it doesnt matter for the test once i used dummy for power and AP teste. About the 10 times... its an averege numbers... it doesnt matter 10 or 100 hits it will always stay at close range.

Sice you said AP rock, and I share the felling, tell us why you think and if you have tested other stats.

I am sorry about the english.

trickshaw

fmgallii wrote: »

I know dummmies have no mitigation...

Then why are you testing ArP on targets which ArP doesn't affect?

fmgallii wrote: »

About the 10 times... its an averege numbers... it doesnt matter 10 or 100 hits it will always stay at close range.

That's so far from accurate I can't believe you actually said it.

fmgallii wrote: »

Since you said AP rock, and I share the felling, tell us why you think and if you have tested other stats.

Because it's all about numbers. Let's say a boss has 30% Resistance. Let's also say you do 1,000 dmg. Power gives you 40 bonus damage per 1,000 points. That brings your damage to 1,040. Subtract mitigation and your total damage done is 728.

Now, same numbers but instead of power we'll do ArP. 1,000 ArP is 10% Resistance Ignored. After mitigation that's 800 total damage.

So 800 damage Vs 728 damage? Which one would you choose?

The trick is figuring out what boss mitigation is so you know WHEN to stop investing in ArP and when to pump into Crit. Investing heavily into power is HAMSTER. Power should be your very least priority.

trickshaw

It's important to note that the disparity between power and ArP gets substantially greater the more damage you do. For example, same exact numbers but base damage is 2,000.

1k power = 1,428 damage.
1k ArP = 1,600 damage.

An 11% damage difference compared to the 9% disparity in my first example.

drenchkat

Taking notes....

ragemonkey83

except that arP scaled depending on power, the high power the more value in arP, so in reality arP is better but only when you have enough power / base dmg to make it so. it is also factored by the amount of armor the target had to start with 10% reduction on 100 is not the same as 10% reduction on 10 when looking as applied dmg.

Also remember you are only bypassing a percentage of a percentage, both are scaling against the other.

5am for me so math may get messy here.

1000 power applied to a target with 10% reduction = damage reduction of 100.
arP mitigated defenses by a percentage so in that case 10% defence mitigation should be and extra 10 dmg when applies to the 100 dmg reduction off a base 1000 power.

This scales up or down depending on power lvl and amount of dmg mitigation on the target making them the key variables, arP remains the same but its worth is based on the other 2 factors.

Many say that arP is best for bosses and power on trash due to armor levels on these targets. Personally I don't think there is a right answer its case by cases.

Just my opinion , not right wrong or any thing in between.

nam19772

ragemonkey83 wrote: »

except that arP scaled depending on power, the high power the more value in arP, so in reality arP is better but only when you have enough power / base dmg to make it so.

No, because there's no minimum power requirement to start doing damage.

ragemonkey83

? I don't get where you going there ?

power was what I used but more accurately base dmg ( should state power is what raises our base dmg in this game ). I know its late but arP still scales off 2 factors dmg and defense of target.

why? because it allows your dmg to mitigate a percentage of the targets defenses, I'm just not sure how you don't see that the result of arP is based on the lvls of dmg and target reduction?

the flat 1000 power was to show a correlation between the values, only error I see is I should have perhaps said dmg , but the theory remains the same.

fmgallii

ragemonkey83 wrote: »

except that arP scaled depending on power, the high power the more value in arP, so in reality arP is better but only when you have enough power / base dmg to make it so. it is also factored by the amount of armor the target had to start with 10% reduction on 100 is not the same as 10% reduction on 10 when looking as applied dmg.

Also remember you are only bypassing a percentage of a percentage, both are scaling against the other.

5am for me so math may get messy here.

1000 power applied to a target with 10% reduction = damage reduction of 100.
arP mitigated defenses by a percentage so in that case 10% defence mitigation should be and extra 10 dmg when applies to the 100 dmg reduction off a base 1000 power.

This scales up or down depending on power lvl and amount of dmg mitigation on the target making them the key variables, arP remains the same but its worth is based on the other 2 factors.

Many say that arP is best for bosses and power on trash due to armor levels on these targets. Personally I don't think there is a right answer its case by cases.

Just my opinion , not right wrong or any thing in between.

Thank you... very nice post.
Since I am more interesting in PVP should I compare a BOSS to a PLAYER?

ragemonkey83

hard to say, I would consider it another thing all together.

Best way to look at it is that you will mitigate more dmg reduction on a GF or mail class character ( DC/GWF ) than you will on a TR or CW.

so you would really need to be hitting one type 100% of the time to make it a clear one way or the others , perhaps a balance is your best bet. Once again only my opinion.

nam19772

ragemonkey83 wrote: »

? I don't get where you going there ?

power was what I used but more accurately base dmg ( should state power is what raises our base dmg in this game ). I know its late but arP still scales off 2 factors dmg and defense of target.

why? because it allows your dmg to mitigate a percentage of the targets defenses, I'm just not sure how you don't see that the result of arP is based on the lvls of dmg and target reduction?

the flat 1000 power was to show a correlation between the values, only error I see is I should have perhaps said dmg , but the theory remains the same.

No offense but if you did some testing, you'd realised that Arp is a flat reduction.
Just read Trickshaw's post above for a clear example and explanation.

neverasher

Let's say a mob has 15% damage resistance, and you stack wicked reminder up enough to do -15% resistance debuff. You will now do normal damage if you have 0 armor pen.

However if you have 15% resistance reduction with AP and hit that same mob that is debuffed by wicked reminder; your AP will first calculate the mobs resistance to 0%, and then you will do 15% more damage on top of that from wicked reminder(it will look something like "You hit the enemy for 2300(2000) damage with your Sly Flourish). I've been told AP won't take something below 0% resistance but will get it so you can debuff a mob for huge damage bonuses that power just can't compare to. Those gobs of power you are investing in are better served in AP(only need like 2k), Crit, and Recovery I think.

In PVP most everyone has at least 20% or more damage resistance so AP really helps out there.

trickshaw

ArP doesn't "scale" based on power. I understand what you're trying to say you're just saying it all wrong. The more power you have the more damage you do ergo the more damage that isn't mitigated thanks to ArP. By that logic the inverse of your point is true since ArP controls how much power "gets through".

Point for point ArP > Power; Mathematically.

Next, depending on class since each class has different crit multipliers, would be Crit and/or Power. That is until you hit mitigation target. What that target is I don't know since I'm not in T2s tracking combat logs.