1) mass creation of items due to duping from one exploit and from the GF exploit.
2) being able to buy any item on the AH with a bid for 1 AD.
these are the 2 exploits that have any effect on the economy of the game.
were going to discount 2 because that exploit is pretty much stealing and thats it, its a single event not linked to any whole.
the first exploit is what people talk about when they say "zomg economy is ****"
but the first exploit does not actually "ruin" anything.
with 99999999999999 T2 items, the only thing that happens is T2 items become cheap as ****. AD does not become cheaper or more expensive, zen does not become more or less expensive.
there is a chance that people could horde AD and zen, but all that would do is create an artificial bubble on the opposite price, which would collapse as soon as that horded AD or zen was spent. This would allow players to change the price of zen/ad for a short while but would cause no real damage.
as well, hording zen has pretty much the same exact effect on the economy as the founders pack did. as a small amount of players are given huge amounts of zen.
did people think the founders pack was destroying the economy? no. then why do people think that the exploit is destroying the economy?
the only thing this exploit did is make it easier for the common person the get fully geared. its bad for NWN because itll make people quit faster but its not bad for the NWN economy.
First, there is no such thing as an "economy" in a game, there are people selling items for inflated prices and screaming "we price at what the market will bear", to be honest, only the weak minded keep people selling high by purchasing those inflated items, stop buying, and things drop in price. Either way everything is infinite in this game, it NEVER runs out, ergo, no economy
Of course there is an economy. Anytime there is a supply and a demand there is an economy. Just because there is a potential endless supply of something doesn't keep it from being part of an economy. Ever see someone buy water?
The easy way to stop foolish manipulation by kids and gold sellers is to simply not buy things. But again, we go to the weak minded gamer that has to have something or has to try and circumvent fees or have their buddies try and corner the market on something and thus contribute to prices well above what items are worth or worth selling.
An item is only worth what what someone pays for it. If they bought it that is what it was worth to them.
As for the ZEN mechanic, this is manipulated by the developers themselves. Like GW2 this game has to manipulate loot or convenience. The trick is to get people to buy ZEN using any means. This is done by developers artificially raising or lowering prices to make either the Ad or ZEN look more appealing. Anyone that thinks the developers have a 100% hands off approach to selling ZEN is mistaken. Anything that has to do with how this Free to Play game makes money for the developers is monitored and adjusted by those developers.
Why would anyone think that the developer has a hands off approach to selling zen? They have it on their website for sale. If you are referring to artificially increasing or decreasing AD, this is possible. But it really wouldn't matter. If they lowered the AD into the marketplace Auction House prices would eventually drop as a result. If they increased the flow of AD into the marketplace Auction House prices would eventually go up. It would all balance out.
In order to create an economy in a game you must first have finite resources, things that run out either permanently or for long periods of time, and things need to wear out and only be marginally repairable to the point of destruction, even epic items. Regulation, a good economy needs regulation or it turns into what we have now, a nothing trade mechanic based on which weak minded individual will pay stupid prices and validate the person that placed the bid.
The first sentence is false. Something does not need to run out permanently or for long periods of time to have value. If there is a more demand than supply the value goes up. If there is less supply and demand the value goes up. If there is supply and no demand a product has no value. And if there is high demand and very limited supply prices escalate to extreme values.
Solutions.
Self control by the gaming community, regulation by developers that can be trusted, transparency on the ZEN market and professions that actually have use, coupled with items that wear out or are seasonal will create a semblance of an economy and that is about as close as you will get.
People pulling numbers out of a hat and posting them on forums are as weak minded as the people paying huge prices on the auction house and creating the problems in the first place. It simply needs to stop. But then, this is the quality gamer F2P brings in. Grin.
I would agree with you on the side of self-control if the gamer believes they have a problem. As for your pricing advice. The gamer posting at high prices has that option and I would never discourage someone for trying to get the best price.
1) mass creation of items due to duping from one exploit and from the GF exploit.
2) being able to buy any item on the AH with a bid for 1 AD.
WRONG!
The AH exploit allowed you to bid in a way that gave you thousands of AD from nothing. Over the first few weeks, the economy was flooded with hundreds of billions of counterfeit AD.
So honest AD was devalued enormously. Now, a portion of the population are hoarding hundreds of millions of ad they use to control/skew the economy.
I am a Lawyer in real life, but I try to roleplay an honorable character
The AH exploit allowed you to bid in a way that gave you thousands of AD from nothing. Over the first few weeks, the economy was flooded with hundreds of billions of counterfeit AD.
The AH exploit allowed you to bid in a way that gave you thousands of AD from nothing. Over the first few weeks, the economy was flooded with hundreds of billions of counterfeit AD.
So honest AD was devalued enormously. Now, a portion of the population are hoarding hundreds of millions of ad they use to control/skew the economy.
This is false. If there was a drastic change to the amount of AD per player the price of AD to zen would have increased up until caturday. The exact happened since day one of open beta the price of AD to zen had decreased meaning there was more demand then supply.
The auction house being offline the past few days has created a shift in demand. Since people can not shop on the auction house there are less reasons to purchase AD with zen. This is a buyers market right now. Since there is less demand the value of AD has dropped.
It's what is called a buyers market. If you buy AD with zen you should do it now. If you sell AD you should wait until the Auction opens back up.
Hundreds of billions of AD from nothing! That is why the economy is ruined for the forseeable future.
that actually doesnt ruin the economy.
again, if you think the founders pack ruined the economy then you have the right to say AD being created from nothing ruins the economy.
but all this does is create an artificial bubble that pops when that AD gets spent. all it does is raise the price of zen and lower the price of AD, you will need more AD to purchase less zen. thats only during the bubble though, after a short amount of time the bubble will recorrect as 99% of the population does not have 99999billion zen and so will be able to afford nothing at the new price.
besides the bubble though, having a bunch of extra AD floating around doesnt do much besides make passive AD worth less. I suppose that hurts people who rely mostly on passive AD to buy things but really, do many people do that?
most people will go to a dungeon, win something they cant use, sell it, and buy something they can use with the AD they just gained.
this bug is just an odd form of quantitative easing. it's just inflation of the AD. and id say most people are still on the fence of whether QE is good or bad. Noone is saying QE is ruining the economy.
so i really dont think you have any ground to stand on.
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katbozejziemiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 856Arc User
True, there was exploiting since day 1, so there's still a lot fake AD out there. Let's be negative and assume there's a LOT fake AD out there, maybe 1 billion AD - in numbers:
1.000.000.000 AD. But actually I think there's a lot less fake AD out there...
Hahaha, that's cute. There are people who themselves have more than that across multiple accounts.
again, if you think the founders pack ruined the economy then you have the right to say AD being created from nothing ruins the economy.
but all this does is create an artificial bubble that pops when that AD gets spent. all it does is raise the price of zen and lower the price of AD, you will need more AD to purchase less zen. thats only during the bubble though, after a short amount of time the bubble will recorrect as 99% of the population does not have 99999billion zen and so will be able to afford nothing at the new price.
besides the bubble though, having a bunch of extra AD floating around doesnt do much besides make passive AD worth less. I suppose that hurts people who rely mostly on passive AD to buy things but really, do many people do that?
most people will go to a dungeon, win something they cant use, sell it, and buy something they can use with the AD they just gained.
this bug is just an odd form of quantitative easing. it's just inflation of the AD. and id say most people are still on the fence of whether QE is good or bad. Noone is saying QE is ruining the economy.
so i really dont think you have any ground to stand on.
So, if I were to counterfeit hundreds of trillions of US dollars, it would not damage the economy? It is clear you are not an economist.
It doesn't ruin the economy for you if you are one of the ones hoarding hundreds of millions of counterfeit AD, but for everyone else, it does.
I am a Lawyer in real life, but I try to roleplay an honorable character
So, if I were to counterfeit hundreds of trillions of US dollars, it would not damage the economy? It is clear you are not an economist.
It doesn't ruin the economy for you if you are one of the ones hoarding hundreds of millions of counterfeit AD, but for everyone else, it does.
1) damage is not ruin
2) youre not an economist, noone who plays this game is an economist, economists dont even exist, "economist" is just a term that news anchors make up to attempt to give credence to their experts
3) something that ruins the economy for one person ruins the economy for everyone, since by definition an economy is based on trade.
4) heres the thing about the economy that you and pretty much noone else understands. the economy is not a physical object. the market is not a place or person and it is not being controlled by some dude in the sky with 99999 trillion AD. the market exists when one individual trades a good or a service to another individual for a set price. That price can be anything. there is no way, that has been discovered as of yet by any human, to hurt or hinder the market. trade occurs by everyone on earth and will always occur until scarcity is eliminated.
however, there are ways to hurt the market/economic process. unstable rules of the game for instance, slow the market process.
is that happening in this case though?
no.
people still trade at the AH, people still trad in AD, gold, and zen. people still trade based on the EULA. The EULA, or the rules of the game, have not changed.
what is happening then?
as i said before, inflation/deflation, with something that looks surprisingly like QE is occuring, as an arbiter is attempting to change the price of AD. Does this help or hurt the economy or the economic process? not really. This shifts the price of AD/zen/gold but that shift is just an exaggerated event of what would have already happened. the bubble will naturally bust as most people do not have 9999 and will not be able to afford the new prices, causing the seller to adapt back to prices that buyers can afford.
this stuff isnt really that hard to understand though.
So you believe having billions of counterfeit AD in the economy (with some people hoarding hundreds of millions of AD) is not a problem? If you honestly believe that, I have some oceanfront property in Tennessee you might be interested in.
The economy is not just the AD to Zen exchange. The AH market is devastated by having so much counterfeit AD floating around.
I am a Lawyer in real life, but I try to roleplay an honorable character
So you believe having billions of counterfeit AD in the economy (with some people hoarding hundreds of millions of AD) is not a problem? If you honestly believe that, I have some oceanfront property in Tennessee you might be interested in.
The economy is not just the AD to Zen exchange. The AH market is devastated by having so much counterfeit AD floating around.
it is a problem.
but theres a huge difference between problem and "destroys the economy".
for a lawyer youre oddly not that big on subtlety.
Well, since everyone seems to post their personal thoughts and theories about how the economy cannot be fixed in this forum - I thought I might do just that as well.
Point is though: The economy doesn't need to be fixed - at least in the long term. Here is why:
1)
The 7-hour-rollback got rid of "most" fake/exploit-created AD.
2)
True, there was exploiting since day 1, so there's still a lot fake AD out there. Let's be negative and assume there's a LOT fake AD out there, maybe 1 billion AD - in numbers:
1.000.000.000 AD. But actually I think there's a lot less fake AD out there...
3)
Everyday there are new AD created from Rough AD and from first time sales of item drops.
Let's assume 30.000 new AD per active player. Let's also assume there are only 10.000 players actively playing per day. That would mean: 30.000.000 new AD per day. That's 30 million AD.
But I actually think it's a lot more (I for instance don't actively play everyday but do a short login to pray and do professions). EDIT: I actually miscalculated that one - it's even 300.000.000 (300 million) new AD per day. This makes the following argument even stronger though. Thanks for correcting me @czarnykogut
4)
Let's look three months into the future (100 day approx). Maybe that's even around release - who knows?
Until then 3.000.000.000 additional AD will have been created. So the fake AD will only be arround one quarter of the economy. So okay, stuff might be 33% more expensive than it should be, but that's not that much:
5)
If a key in the AH was 50.000 AD "for real", you'd have to pay around 67.000 AD. That is manageable.
6)
Looking one year into the future the exploits won't have any noticeable effect whatsoever. That is if there are no new exploits turning up.
What else I wanted to say?
a)
PWE/Cryptic - please re-think your customer-information-policy. People are getting annoyed because you leave them in the dark. Please give out more information to keep the waves smooth. People have a right to know what is going on - especially if they paid money for your game.
b)
English is not my first language, so if some sentences sounded awkward or anything: Sorry about that!
c)
See you ingame everyone!
Those some super fabulous numbers you pulled directly out of your *** sir....... The effect is hitting everyone now, not in the future. Who the hell even knows what the future holds for this game. I sure dont!
well from my personal opinion (some adds though):
7)
AH is good systems, but still, you can play without it. person-to-person trading still intact. can still collect AD through Profession, Daily Quest, hour bonuses.
8)
some people get to level 60 with no AD spend, you can ask around if you like for proof. equipment? get to PvP, get Glory Point, exchange them in trade of blade, that purple rank guys.
frodinthroneMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 15Arc User
edited May 2013
And people who don't know the basic facts of what happened continue to offer their opinions.
Hilarious.
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gjack6014Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 12Arc User
edited May 2013
In the long term things will equalize. What is frustrating is the Devs had a chance to reset the advantage the RMT sellers now have. The real pain point to the exploit was not the game economy, rather the real economy. Some of the RMT sites are now selling AD at a significant discount compared to PWI / Cryptic.
That 40$ mount is now 25$. Items are being sold at a discount as the RMT dealers prospered by making the AD exchange before the rollback.
Some sites are listing quantities up to 2 billion AD. There is one auction style site that lists the sales for each RMT provider. There have been on this single site about 65 AD sales since the rollback. I guess presented with paying PWI more or RMT less the players that do spend money are willing to chance RMT sellers. (Recent articles and stories state a large percentage of players actually have tried RMT methods)
So now PWI/Cryptic is taking a hit in profits. Which in turn (I speculate) should slow the growth of the game. (New Content) And result in a glut of expensive items being added to the store, instead of a drop in price as the market should drive the prices of old items down as new items came out.
Now I understand that someone will say "there is always RMT" in every game. However NW has a system that slows that and makes it hard to gather AD by mere grinding. The 7 day rollback left the RMT sellers months, maybe years ahead of the tedious game of gather AD in the auction house or by praying. They also had the advantage of converting AD to Zen to buy BoE items for reselling. NW does not make it easy to bot AD. Brute force methods of gathering AD by large numbers of low paid employees is probably not as good of revenue source as applying those employees efforts to a larger AA game.
PWI / Cryptic created a profitable environment by not declaring this a beta and exercising the standard beta wipe to contain the problem. Now the cat and mouse game begins and we all know who has the most experience at that.
The AH exploit allowed you to bid in a way that gave you thousands of AD from nothing. Over the first few weeks, the economy was flooded with hundreds of billions of counterfeit AD.
So honest AD was devalued enormously. Now, a portion of the population are hoarding hundreds of millions of ad they use to control/skew the economy.
I see you making this same claim over and over again in pretty much every thread about the economy in the forums. What I never see you doing is posting one shred of evidence of anyone actually talking about counterfeiting AD that was posted before last Saturday. So how do you know that billions of AD was counterfeited before Saturday? Is it because a bunch of people said that they did on some forum after the fact? That's pretty rich.
I have a potion that turns me into a horse and lets me travel through time. I used it to become Secretariat and win the Triple Crown in 1973. It must be true, I wrote it on the internet.
The Great Cat Depression is in the past people. Let's move on, and forget about when it costed 2000 cats for a loaf of bread already. You know good and well you used half that bread to take bread-faced cat meme pics with your magic picture boxes.
I see you making this same claim over and over again in pretty much every thread about the economy in the forums. What I never see you doing is posting one shred of evidence of anyone actually talking about counterfeiting AD that was posted before last Saturday. So how do you know that billions of AD was counterfeited before Saturday? Is it because a bunch of people said that they did on some forum after the fact? That's pretty rich.
The exploit was known in STO. The exploit was reported in Neverwinter closed beta. Gold-sellers now have billions of AD in stock. People have posted in other forums about amassing over a billion AD each since launch. The evidence is abundant.
I am a Lawyer in real life, but I try to roleplay an honorable character
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frodinthroneMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 15Arc User
I see you making this same claim over and over again in pretty much every thread about the economy in the forums. What I never see you doing is posting one shred of evidence of anyone actually talking about counterfeiting AD that was posted before last Saturday. So how do you know that billions of AD was counterfeited before Saturday? Is it because a bunch of people said that they did on some forum after the fact? That's pretty rich.
I have a potion that turns me into a horse and lets me travel through time. I used it to become Secretariat and win the Triple Crown in 1973. It must be true, I wrote it on the internet.
PWE have said themselves that it happened.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that the people doing it did not publicly admit so until their game was rumbled because they are not ****ing stupid.
The exploit was known in STO. The exploit was reported in Neverwinter closed beta. Gold-sellers now have billions of AD in stock. People have posted in other forums about amassing over a billion AD each since launch. The evidence is abundant.
The exploit in STO as I understand it was not done in the same way as the exploit in NW, namely that the exploit in NW was done through the Gateway, something that doesn't exist in STO.
Please provide one piece of evidence of someone reporting the exploit in the closed beta. Someone posting around that time about the exploit, or a non-doctored screenshot of same.
Please provide proof that gold sellers have billions of AD in stock.
Please provide photographic evidence of anyone showing billions of AD that was posted prior to the exploit becoming known on Saturday.
Again, anyone can say anything on the internet, especially after the fact. Why do you keep repeating yourself without showing any evidence at all?
Please link to one post of PWE stating that the exploit has been going on in the game since either closed beta or launch. What PWE did say was that the exploit was abused prior to the rollback window, as in before 5:20 AM on Saturday. That's a lot different than stating that the exploit was known since launch or closed beta.
Why do you people keep posting things as facts without providing evidence. Do you just think people should take things at face value because you say they're true?
Please link to one post of PWE stating that the exploit has been going on in the game since either closed beta or launch. What PWE did say was that the exploit was abused prior to the rollback window, as in before 5:20 AM on Saturday. That's a lot different than stating that the exploit was known since launch or closed beta.
Why do you people keep posting things as facts without providing evidence. Do you just think people should take things at face value because you say they're true?
"Q: This bug existed for more than 7 hours. What are you doing about the fact that players took advantage of this before the rollback window?
A: We are performing additional log searches and investigations to ensure that the appropriate actions are taken against any accounts that performed the exploit before the rollback window."
You're completely ignorant about the subject of this thread.
"Q: This bug existed for more than 7 hours. What are you doing about the fact that players took advantage of this before the rollback window?
A: We are performing additional log searches and investigations to ensure that the appropriate actions are taken against any accounts that performed the exploit before the rollback window."
You're completely ignorant about the subject of this thread.
I will write what I wrote and you responded to again because you apparently did not read what I wrote,
"What PWE did say was that the exploit was abused prior to the rollback window, as in before 5:20 AM on Saturday. That's a lot different than stating that the exploit was known since launch or closed beta."
Which is exactly what you quoted says, it doesn't say what you want it to say, which is that the bug was exploited/known since closed beta/launch or even before Saturday(it just says that the bug was exploited before their rollback which was a little over 5 hours into Saturday), but nice try...I guess.
And furthermore what I initially wrote was, "What I never see you doing is posting one shred of evidence of anyone actually talking about counterfeiting AD that was posted before last Saturday." Which PWE saying that it happened before Saturday(which they didn't but anyway) would not be. Because PWE themselves talked about it on Saturday and after. So your initial response isn't even responsive to what I wrote. You go on to state,
"I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that the people doing it did not publicly admit so until their game was rumbled because they are not ****ing stupid."
Okay, so we're just supposed to take them at their word that they did it before it was publicly known? I ask again. Why? Why should we take someone at their word that they exploited when they only admit it after the fact, and never provide any evidence that they did it beforehand.
I will write what I wrote and you responded to again because you apparently did not read what I wrote,
"What PWE did say was that the exploit was abused prior to the rollback window, as in before 5:20 AM on Saturday. That's a lot different than stating that the exploit was known since launch or closed beta."
Which is exactly what you quoted says, it doesn't say what you want it to say, which is that the bug was exploited/known since closed beta/launch, but nice try...I guess.
In the 5 minutes it took me to find the link you stealth edited your post to cover up your laughable claim. Better go back through every thread you've posted in and change those too it might fool people into thinking you have half a brain.
In the 5 minutes it took me to find the link you stealth edited your post to cover up your laughable claim. Better go back through every thread you've posted in and change those too it might fool people into thinking you have half a brain.
What? You quoted my post. Read what you quoted in your post, is it the same as the post reads now. Oh, it is. That means that when you were actually posting your reply you were replying to my post as it is currently written. Maybe you should, I don't know, read the posts you're replying to when you actually reply to them.
What was the laughable claim you think I made that you were replying to?
Comments
there were two major exploits.
1) mass creation of items due to duping from one exploit and from the GF exploit.
2) being able to buy any item on the AH with a bid for 1 AD.
these are the 2 exploits that have any effect on the economy of the game.
were going to discount 2 because that exploit is pretty much stealing and thats it, its a single event not linked to any whole.
the first exploit is what people talk about when they say "zomg economy is ****"
but the first exploit does not actually "ruin" anything.
with 99999999999999 T2 items, the only thing that happens is T2 items become cheap as ****. AD does not become cheaper or more expensive, zen does not become more or less expensive.
there is a chance that people could horde AD and zen, but all that would do is create an artificial bubble on the opposite price, which would collapse as soon as that horded AD or zen was spent. This would allow players to change the price of zen/ad for a short while but would cause no real damage.
as well, hording zen has pretty much the same exact effect on the economy as the founders pack did. as a small amount of players are given huge amounts of zen.
did people think the founders pack was destroying the economy? no. then why do people think that the exploit is destroying the economy?
the only thing this exploit did is make it easier for the common person the get fully geared. its bad for NWN because itll make people quit faster but its not bad for the NWN economy.
Of course there is an economy. Anytime there is a supply and a demand there is an economy. Just because there is a potential endless supply of something doesn't keep it from being part of an economy. Ever see someone buy water?
An item is only worth what what someone pays for it. If they bought it that is what it was worth to them.
Why would anyone think that the developer has a hands off approach to selling zen? They have it on their website for sale. If you are referring to artificially increasing or decreasing AD, this is possible. But it really wouldn't matter. If they lowered the AD into the marketplace Auction House prices would eventually drop as a result. If they increased the flow of AD into the marketplace Auction House prices would eventually go up. It would all balance out.
The first sentence is false. Something does not need to run out permanently or for long periods of time to have value. If there is a more demand than supply the value goes up. If there is less supply and demand the value goes up. If there is supply and no demand a product has no value. And if there is high demand and very limited supply prices escalate to extreme values.
I would agree with you on the side of self-control if the gamer believes they have a problem. As for your pricing advice. The gamer posting at high prices has that option and I would never discourage someone for trying to get the best price.
WRONG!
The AH exploit allowed you to bid in a way that gave you thousands of AD from nothing. Over the first few weeks, the economy was flooded with hundreds of billions of counterfeit AD.
So honest AD was devalued enormously. Now, a portion of the population are hoarding hundreds of millions of ad they use to control/skew the economy.
so the exploit created AD from nothing?
welp thats news to me
Hundreds of billions of AD from nothing! That is why the economy is ruined for the forseeable future.
This is false. If there was a drastic change to the amount of AD per player the price of AD to zen would have increased up until caturday. The exact happened since day one of open beta the price of AD to zen had decreased meaning there was more demand then supply.
The auction house being offline the past few days has created a shift in demand. Since people can not shop on the auction house there are less reasons to purchase AD with zen. This is a buyers market right now. Since there is less demand the value of AD has dropped.
It's what is called a buyers market. If you buy AD with zen you should do it now. If you sell AD you should wait until the Auction opens back up.
that actually doesnt ruin the economy.
again, if you think the founders pack ruined the economy then you have the right to say AD being created from nothing ruins the economy.
but all this does is create an artificial bubble that pops when that AD gets spent. all it does is raise the price of zen and lower the price of AD, you will need more AD to purchase less zen. thats only during the bubble though, after a short amount of time the bubble will recorrect as 99% of the population does not have 99999billion zen and so will be able to afford nothing at the new price.
besides the bubble though, having a bunch of extra AD floating around doesnt do much besides make passive AD worth less. I suppose that hurts people who rely mostly on passive AD to buy things but really, do many people do that?
most people will go to a dungeon, win something they cant use, sell it, and buy something they can use with the AD they just gained.
this bug is just an odd form of quantitative easing. it's just inflation of the AD. and id say most people are still on the fence of whether QE is good or bad. Noone is saying QE is ruining the economy.
so i really dont think you have any ground to stand on.
So, if I were to counterfeit hundreds of trillions of US dollars, it would not damage the economy? It is clear you are not an economist.
It doesn't ruin the economy for you if you are one of the ones hoarding hundreds of millions of counterfeit AD, but for everyone else, it does.
1) damage is not ruin
2) youre not an economist, noone who plays this game is an economist, economists dont even exist, "economist" is just a term that news anchors make up to attempt to give credence to their experts
3) something that ruins the economy for one person ruins the economy for everyone, since by definition an economy is based on trade.
4) heres the thing about the economy that you and pretty much noone else understands. the economy is not a physical object. the market is not a place or person and it is not being controlled by some dude in the sky with 99999 trillion AD. the market exists when one individual trades a good or a service to another individual for a set price. That price can be anything. there is no way, that has been discovered as of yet by any human, to hurt or hinder the market. trade occurs by everyone on earth and will always occur until scarcity is eliminated.
however, there are ways to hurt the market/economic process. unstable rules of the game for instance, slow the market process.
is that happening in this case though?
no.
people still trade at the AH, people still trad in AD, gold, and zen. people still trade based on the EULA. The EULA, or the rules of the game, have not changed.
what is happening then?
as i said before, inflation/deflation, with something that looks surprisingly like QE is occuring, as an arbiter is attempting to change the price of AD. Does this help or hurt the economy or the economic process? not really. This shifts the price of AD/zen/gold but that shift is just an exaggerated event of what would have already happened. the bubble will naturally bust as most people do not have 9999 and will not be able to afford the new prices, causing the seller to adapt back to prices that buyers can afford.
this stuff isnt really that hard to understand though.
The economy is not just the AD to Zen exchange. The AH market is devastated by having so much counterfeit AD floating around.
it is a problem.
but theres a huge difference between problem and "destroys the economy".
for a lawyer youre oddly not that big on subtlety.
Those some super fabulous numbers you pulled directly out of your *** sir....... The effect is hitting everyone now, not in the future. Who the hell even knows what the future holds for this game. I sure dont!
7)
AH is good systems, but still, you can play without it. person-to-person trading still intact. can still collect AD through Profession, Daily Quest, hour bonuses.
8)
some people get to level 60 with no AD spend, you can ask around if you like for proof. equipment? get to PvP, get Glory Point, exchange them in trade of blade, that purple rank guys.
D'Brickashaw > You.
Hilarious.
That 40$ mount is now 25$. Items are being sold at a discount as the RMT dealers prospered by making the AD exchange before the rollback.
Some sites are listing quantities up to 2 billion AD. There is one auction style site that lists the sales for each RMT provider. There have been on this single site about 65 AD sales since the rollback. I guess presented with paying PWI more or RMT less the players that do spend money are willing to chance RMT sellers. (Recent articles and stories state a large percentage of players actually have tried RMT methods)
So now PWI/Cryptic is taking a hit in profits. Which in turn (I speculate) should slow the growth of the game. (New Content) And result in a glut of expensive items being added to the store, instead of a drop in price as the market should drive the prices of old items down as new items came out.
Now I understand that someone will say "there is always RMT" in every game. However NW has a system that slows that and makes it hard to gather AD by mere grinding. The 7 day rollback left the RMT sellers months, maybe years ahead of the tedious game of gather AD in the auction house or by praying. They also had the advantage of converting AD to Zen to buy BoE items for reselling. NW does not make it easy to bot AD. Brute force methods of gathering AD by large numbers of low paid employees is probably not as good of revenue source as applying those employees efforts to a larger AA game.
PWI / Cryptic created a profitable environment by not declaring this a beta and exercising the standard beta wipe to contain the problem. Now the cat and mouse game begins and we all know who has the most experience at that.
I see you making this same claim over and over again in pretty much every thread about the economy in the forums. What I never see you doing is posting one shred of evidence of anyone actually talking about counterfeiting AD that was posted before last Saturday. So how do you know that billions of AD was counterfeited before Saturday? Is it because a bunch of people said that they did on some forum after the fact? That's pretty rich.
I have a potion that turns me into a horse and lets me travel through time. I used it to become Secretariat and win the Triple Crown in 1973. It must be true, I wrote it on the internet.
Neverwinter Official Wiki - http://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/
The exploit was known in STO. The exploit was reported in Neverwinter closed beta. Gold-sellers now have billions of AD in stock. People have posted in other forums about amassing over a billion AD each since launch. The evidence is abundant.
PWE have said themselves that it happened.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that the people doing it did not publicly admit so until their game was rumbled because they are not ****ing stupid.
The exploit in STO as I understand it was not done in the same way as the exploit in NW, namely that the exploit in NW was done through the Gateway, something that doesn't exist in STO.
Please provide one piece of evidence of someone reporting the exploit in the closed beta. Someone posting around that time about the exploit, or a non-doctored screenshot of same.
Please provide proof that gold sellers have billions of AD in stock.
Please provide photographic evidence of anyone showing billions of AD that was posted prior to the exploit becoming known on Saturday.
Again, anyone can say anything on the internet, especially after the fact. Why do you keep repeating yourself without showing any evidence at all?
Neverwinter Official Wiki - http://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/
Please link to one post of PWE stating that the exploit has been going on in the game since either closed beta or launch. What PWE did say was that the exploit was abused prior to the rollback window, as in before 5:20 AM on Saturday. That's a lot different than stating that the exploit was known since launch or closed beta.
Why do you people keep posting things as facts without providing evidence. Do you just think people should take things at face value because you say they're true?
Neverwinter Official Wiki - http://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?266921-FAQ-AD-AH-Exploit-Follow-Up&p=3479161&viewfull=1#post3479161
"Q: This bug existed for more than 7 hours. What are you doing about the fact that players took advantage of this before the rollback window?
A: We are performing additional log searches and investigations to ensure that the appropriate actions are taken against any accounts that performed the exploit before the rollback window."
You're completely ignorant about the subject of this thread.
I will write what I wrote and you responded to again because you apparently did not read what I wrote,
"What PWE did say was that the exploit was abused prior to the rollback window, as in before 5:20 AM on Saturday. That's a lot different than stating that the exploit was known since launch or closed beta."
Which is exactly what you quoted says, it doesn't say what you want it to say, which is that the bug was exploited/known since closed beta/launch or even before Saturday(it just says that the bug was exploited before their rollback which was a little over 5 hours into Saturday), but nice try...I guess.
And furthermore what I initially wrote was, "What I never see you doing is posting one shred of evidence of anyone actually talking about counterfeiting AD that was posted before last Saturday." Which PWE saying that it happened before Saturday(which they didn't but anyway) would not be. Because PWE themselves talked about it on Saturday and after. So your initial response isn't even responsive to what I wrote. You go on to state,
"I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that the people doing it did not publicly admit so until their game was rumbled because they are not ****ing stupid."
Okay, so we're just supposed to take them at their word that they did it before it was publicly known? I ask again. Why? Why should we take someone at their word that they exploited when they only admit it after the fact, and never provide any evidence that they did it beforehand.
Neverwinter Official Wiki - http://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/
In the 5 minutes it took me to find the link you stealth edited your post to cover up your laughable claim. Better go back through every thread you've posted in and change those too it might fool people into thinking you have half a brain.
What? You quoted my post. Read what you quoted in your post, is it the same as the post reads now. Oh, it is. That means that when you were actually posting your reply you were replying to my post as it is currently written. Maybe you should, I don't know, read the posts you're replying to when you actually reply to them.
What was the laughable claim you think I made that you were replying to?
Neverwinter Official Wiki - http://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/