Man, I've done soft launches before, and this one is like no other I've been in. They usually actually announce the date of they are planning to be "released" in a soft launch, and Neverwinter has not.
In any case, given this recent astral diamond fiasco, I imagine they're really regretting their decision right now to do no more wipes. Even their playerbase is against them on this one, at least if the forum vocal majority is of any indication.
Correction, some of a tiny splinter of the player base (that which actually reads the forums) are for a wipe, while another part of that tiny splinter is against a wipe, while yet another part of that tiny splinter is ambivalent, so long as they don't lose what they paid for, either diamonds as part of a package or zen. That poll in no way indicates what the player base as a whole feels.
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geldonMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 22Arc User
edited May 2013
That poll is useless in pointing out that their "playerbase is against them" unless you consider 1,872 people (at the present time) the games entire playerbase.
Yes, I already accounted for that in the later half of the sentence.
Funny enough, one thing I learned in a college Sociology class is that sociologists in the field tend to take a poll of 1,872 people as representing a far larger sample of people, so your objection against that methodology falls in the face of people who do this kind of public census professionally.
My critique would be that the poll would be biased towards forum goers, sample bias, and not your objection which, as I pointed out in the last paragraph, is actually not considered a significant flaw in any poll which, due to the technical impossibility of polling absolutely everyone, will always be evident.
Yes, I already accounted for that in the later half of the sentence.
Funny enough, one thing I learned in a college Sociology class is that sociologists in the field tend to take a poll of 1,872 people as representing a far larger sample of people, so your objection against that methodology falls in the face of people who do this kind of public census professionally.
My critique would be that the poll would be biased towards forum goers, sample bias, and not that a smaller sample does not represent a larger body which, as the last paragraph I wrote points out, is actually accepted among the scientific and census communities as being accurate enough to be legit.
Social science isn't exactly science, is it.
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krisstina2333Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 20Arc User
That poll is useless in pointing out that their "playerbase is against them" unless you consider 1,872 people (at the present time) the games entire playerbase.
Regardless of them regretting their decision or not that's the law of the land now: no wipes. It just seems some people have a problem with that and can't let it go.
So you gonna say Obama isn't an eligible president because less then 60% ppl participated?
Yes, I already accounted for that in the later half of the sentence.
Funny enough, one thing I learned in a college Sociology class is that sociologists in the field tend to take a poll of 1,872 people as representing a far larger sample of people, so your objection against that methodology falls in the face of people who do this kind of public census professionally.
My critique would be that the poll would be biased towards forum goers, sample bias, and not your objection which, as I pointed out in the last paragraph, is actually not considered a significant flaw in any poll which, due to the technical impossibility of polling absolutely everyone, will always be evident.
Right but the problem with polls representing a larger community is because there's no reason to really refute it. In this case most of the people who actually venture on the forums to discuss a game can arguably be said to be part of the more "Hardcore" crowd. Most casuals don't even go on the forums or even care. One could argue that these people would be more upset losing progress. The same people who likely don't even know of the previous exploit let alone the current one.
So you gonna say Obama isn't an eligible president because less then 60% ppl participated?
Informal forum polls do not equal structured nation-wide elections.
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starkaosMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
The thing about statistics is that it has to be a completely random group of people so if I randomly contact 1,872 people, then the results are accurate. However, posting a poll on a forum where someone could see it and say to their friends, lets vote for a wipe for the fun of it, then it completely invalidates the poll.
Right but the problem with polls representing a larger community is because there's no reason to really refute it. In this case most of the people who actually venture on the forums to discuss a game can arguably be said to be part of the more "Hardcore" crowd. Most casuals don't even go on the forums or even care.
If someone is trying to suggest social science is science you do not need to frame a sophisticated response. Anyone that knows anything about both of them knows they aren't close to being the same.
maybe companies will stop calling these launches "open betas". A game breaking bug occurred during an open beta and they cant reset because money is involved. What a conundrum.
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geldonMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 22Arc User
If someone is trying to suggest social science is science you do not need to frame a sophisticated response. Anyone that knows anything about both of them knows they aren't close to being the same.
I'll get back to you on the validity of the statement that how social scientists conduct their polls on people's opinions is invalid due to social science not being a hard science when we start conducting polls that ask the opinion of things that aren't people.
maybe companies will stop calling these launches "open betas". A game breaking bug occurred during an open beta and they cant reset because money is involved. What a conundrum.
To good a gig to give up. They don't even have to bring it up. There are plenty of players that will respond 'beta' to just about any complaint on the forums to do that for them.
Assuming we're still in open beta and the headstart has not begun, which seems to be the case, it seems a wipe is already on its way.
That being the case, I'm guessing all astral diamonds will be wiped, and we'll just be left with the Zen damage that happened when conversion was done to astral diamonds. (If I were them, these Zen transactions would be where my main priority would be upon reversing from the logs.)
If I'm wrong, I'd like to know how.
The headstart was for the Open Beta, before.
Imagination is the only weapon in the war against reality.
I'll get back to you on the validity of the statement that how social scientists conduct their polls on people is invalid due to social science not being a hard science when we start conducting polls on things that aren't people and therefore susceptible to hard science.
Anything that isn't hard isn't science. At best, it's dressed up in a science suit to baffle the easily confused or enamoured.
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hsinrogMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
The vast majority of F2P games now follow the 'open beta' model. Where they declare an 'open beta' so they can generate revenue through their cash shop and work on bug fixes. Most of them consider 'open beta' to be a soft launch and so no character wipes will occur because people are spending real money in the cash shop. Cash shop revenue would drop drastically if any company said 'open beta' will have a wipe after it is completed.
The only online games that generally wipe after open beta now are P2P games.
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geldonMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 22Arc User
Anything that isn't hard isn't science. At best, it's dressed up in a science suit to baffle the easily confused or enamoured.
Such a statement marks you as a self-appointed judge of truth and knowledge that even the ballsiest of scientific professional would balk at pretending to be.
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krisstina2333Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 20Arc User
The vast majority of F2P games now follow the 'open beta' model. Where they declare an 'open beta' so they can generate revenue through their cash shop and work on bug fixes. Most of them consider 'open beta' to be a soft launch and so no character wipes will occur because people are spending real money in the cash shop. Cash shop revenue would drop drastically if any company said 'open beta' will have a wipe after it is completed.
The only online games that generally wipe after open beta now are P2P games.
Wipe EVE!!!!!:eek:
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terradraconisMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 17Arc User
Such a statement marks you as a self-appointed judge of truth and knowledge that even the ballsiest of scientific professional would balk at pretending to be.
Nope any true scientist would agree. Science is about reliably replicating results and frankly a whole lot of social science projects can't replicate results.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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terradraconisMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 17Arc User
Given that Eve has has massively worse problems with their economy including GM's actively creating gear to sell and the like in game. I would think need a wipe to fix their economy far more than little ole Neverwinter.
Such a statement marks you as a self-appointed judge of truth and knowledge that even the ballsiest of scientific professional would balk at pretending to be.
It just shows I know what science is, and isn't. It's hardly an issue of byzantine complexity.
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terradraconisMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 17Arc User
Social science isn't a hard science and I will argue that point into the ground because I know I can win it
Yeah, whatever, but within the context of this thread, the only thing you can accomplish is trying to refute the idea that anyone, even the most practiced professionals in the field in taking the least biased of public polls, which social scientists are, know how to conduct a poll.
Is that really what you want to argue? Because next stop, you're turning this into an anti-democracy thread, and all that's really supposed to be on the table is how seriously we should take this poll, something I already pointed out would have sample bias just by virtue of being on the forum.
With all of the garbage that has happened as a result of MULTIPLE exploits which severely damaged the game, there absolutely SHOULD be a character wipe. I am a founder and hit 60 pretty fast, have done most of the content and still wouldn't mind a wipe simply because its the only way to start fresh at this point. The damage that has been done is irreparable any other way.
Refund people their AD and wipe it. Otherwise, prepare to see droves of people leaving the game.
nuff said.
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terradraconisMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 17Arc User
With all of the garbage that has happened as a result of MULTIPLE exploits which severely damaged the game, there absolutely SHOULD be a character wipe. I am a founder and hit 60 pretty fast, have done most of the content and still wouldn't mind a wipe simply because its the only way to start fresh at this point. The damage that has been done is irreparable any other way.
Refund people their AD and wipe it. Otherwise, prepare to see droves of people leaving the game.
nuff said.
If they don't do the wipe a few hundred to a couple thousand will leave. If they do the wipe tens of thousands will revolt and leave. Hmm, which would you pick if you where them.
Yeah, whatever, but within the context of this thread, the only thing you can accomplish is trying to refute the idea that anyone, even the most practiced professionals in the field in taking the least biased of public polls, which social scientists are, know how to conduct a poll.
Is that really what you want to argue? Because next stop, you're turning this into an anti-democracy thread, and all that's really supposed to be on the table is how seriously we should take this poll, something I already pointed out would have sample bias just by virtue of being on the forum.
The thread was about the mistaken notion that there would be a wipe, which was corrected early on. The remainder was off topic. As such, pointing out that social science isn't science wasn't within the context of this thread.
Trying to turn knowing the difference between science and social science into an anti-democratic assault is absolute nonsense, but I suppose an attempt at distraction and obfuscation might fool some of the thread readers.
Comments
Correction, some of a tiny splinter of the player base (that which actually reads the forums) are for a wipe, while another part of that tiny splinter is against a wipe, while yet another part of that tiny splinter is ambivalent, so long as they don't lose what they paid for, either diamonds as part of a package or zen. That poll in no way indicates what the player base as a whole feels.
Funny enough, one thing I learned in a college Sociology class is that sociologists in the field tend to take a poll of 1,872 people as representing a far larger sample of people, so your objection against that methodology falls in the face of people who do this kind of public census professionally.
My critique would be that the poll would be biased towards forum goers, sample bias, and not your objection which, as I pointed out in the last paragraph, is actually not considered a significant flaw in any poll which, due to the technical impossibility of polling absolutely everyone, will always be evident.
Social science isn't exactly science, is it.
So you gonna say Obama isn't an eligible president because less then 60% ppl participated?
Seriously you people need to learn how to read... /facepalm
Right but the problem with polls representing a larger community is because there's no reason to really refute it. In this case most of the people who actually venture on the forums to discuss a game can arguably be said to be part of the more "Hardcore" crowd. Most casuals don't even go on the forums or even care. One could argue that these people would be more upset losing progress. The same people who likely don't even know of the previous exploit let alone the current one.
Informal forum polls do not equal structured nation-wide elections.
Next.
Obama isn't an eligible president because he is a Martian.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKUOB8MN4Kc
If someone is trying to suggest social science is science you do not need to frame a sophisticated response. Anyone that knows anything about both of them knows they aren't close to being the same.
To good a gig to give up. They don't even have to bring it up. There are plenty of players that will respond 'beta' to just about any complaint on the forums to do that for them.
The headstart was for the Open Beta, before.
The vast majority of F2P games now follow the 'open beta' model. Where they declare an 'open beta' so they can generate revenue through their cash shop and work on bug fixes. Most of them consider 'open beta' to be a soft launch and so no character wipes will occur because people are spending real money in the cash shop. Cash shop revenue would drop drastically if any company said 'open beta' will have a wipe after it is completed.
The only online games that generally wipe after open beta now are P2P games.
Wipe EVE!!!!!:eek:
Nope any true scientist would agree. Science is about reliably replicating results and frankly a whole lot of social science projects can't replicate results.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Given that Eve has has massively worse problems with their economy including GM's actively creating gear to sell and the like in game. I would think need a wipe to fix their economy far more than little ole Neverwinter.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
It just shows I know what science is, and isn't. It's hardly an issue of byzantine complexity.
By the way anyone wanting to know more about how science should be conducted is recommended to look into the writing and lectures of Richard Feynman .
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Is that really what you want to argue? Because next stop, you're turning this into an anti-democracy thread, and all that's really supposed to be on the table is how seriously we should take this poll, something I already pointed out would have sample bias just by virtue of being on the forum.
Refund people their AD and wipe it. Otherwise, prepare to see droves of people leaving the game.
nuff said.
If they don't do the wipe a few hundred to a couple thousand will leave. If they do the wipe tens of thousands will revolt and leave. Hmm, which would you pick if you where them.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
The thread was about the mistaken notion that there would be a wipe, which was corrected early on. The remainder was off topic. As such, pointing out that social science isn't science wasn't within the context of this thread.
Trying to turn knowing the difference between science and social science into an anti-democratic assault is absolute nonsense, but I suppose an attempt at distraction and obfuscation might fool some of the thread readers.