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TAB not a fun button for Guardian Fighters.
kerch80
Member Posts: 5 Arc User
All threat issues people are having aside, one complaint I have about the GF class involves the mark button. I've played CW and GWF so far, in addition to GF, and the abilities they have bound to that key are much more interesting and fun. I haven't played a Cleric or Rogue yet, but I understand that is where stealth and channel divinity are bound for those classes (fun and useful buttons).
I often feel like I'm playing a class with one less keybinding, since I almost never use the ability. Marking a target, on its own, doesn't seem to do much. And I'd much rather use Enforced Threat or Threatening Rush to apply my marks. I use Enhanced Mark as a class feature, so I care about marking my target and building threat from there. I find that using the Tab button is clunky and slow, preventing me from using my more useful attacks while I apply a single target ineffective debuff.
I'm not sure if there are any small tweaks that can save this button for me, it kinda feels like it needs a complete overhaul. Just have tab do something else entirely, and leaving marking enemies as a function of our attacks. 4th Edition fighters passively apply their mark by attacking anyways. It was the other Defenders that used an action to apply marks on enemies.
I often feel like I'm playing a class with one less keybinding, since I almost never use the ability. Marking a target, on its own, doesn't seem to do much. And I'd much rather use Enforced Threat or Threatening Rush to apply my marks. I use Enhanced Mark as a class feature, so I care about marking my target and building threat from there. I find that using the Tab button is clunky and slow, preventing me from using my more useful attacks while I apply a single target ineffective debuff.
I'm not sure if there are any small tweaks that can save this button for me, it kinda feels like it needs a complete overhaul. Just have tab do something else entirely, and leaving marking enemies as a function of our attacks. 4th Edition fighters passively apply their mark by attacking anyways. It was the other Defenders that used an action to apply marks on enemies.
Post edited by kerch80 on
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I've given up on using the button altogether, and found my performance has increased. I can't imagine I'm the only one who feels this way, but maybe I'm missing something.
There's nothing stopping you from using other abilities, you just have to do it between the target's attacks so you can safely put your shield down. Lunging Strike is a great one for that because you can back away during attacks and then zip back as soon as you get a window.
This is true, it's pretty much what it takes to make it work.
I also agree, though, that it's just not a fun button, and frankly it doesn't work very well. On the doesn't work very well front, the other two mark delivery modes work better because they apply damage(read: threat) simultaneously. This is relevant even if their damage threat is contributed before the mark modifier that they give(I don't know which order the math is applied in). Even when "peeling" a single mob, I often find it more effective to use threatening rush or enforced threat, then follow it up with a griffon strike or other quick encounter hit before tossing up guard.
I'd much rather have Enforced Threat on my tab key--even better if that tossed it on a shorter cooldown, such as ten seconds. If given the choice as to what to use on that key, I'd virtually always have that there, opening up an encounter spot for something like frontline rush or a team oriented buff ability.
Even better yet would be to allow that slot to use an encounter ability in the same manner as the Control Wizard does----placing a skill in that slot gives it an additional ability, in the case of the Guardian Fighter this ability could almost universally be mark. Putting a charge style skill in that slot would help alleviate the need to carry Threatening Rush, for example. Putting an AE style ability may alleviate the need to carry Enforced Threat. Tying it to something like Anvil of Doom could allow it to be a truly useful single target threat attack, dropping a massive threatbomb on the target while simultaneously marking it to receive a real boost.
And that is not a troll, I am being dead serious.
Micromanaging a tab mark means that I can't turn my back or take any damage from a boss. This isn't worth it, because I need to spend most of my time ignoring the boss and running after whatever is on the cleric magnet. Threatening Rush matches GF playstyle better, because I'm going from enemy to enemy, not stance dancing with one enemy at a time.
However, the lunge attack while holding guard isn't single attack. It has a small cone. If things line up correctly, you can stab several things at once, which is nice if you're guarding in slow-mo attack form. The animation looks like it would only hit one thing, but it's better than it looks.
Tab marking should be replaced by something better and at least a little fun. Maybe it would be too powerful to replace Mark with Enforced Threat, but I like the idea of pressing Tab to yell at things, maybe generate threat and either mark things nearby or surrounding the enemy I targeted with Tab. Perhaps Tab can be a downgraded version of Enforced Threat, and Enforced Threat can be upgraded to interrupt or slow nearby enemies.
There's also the problem that part of Tab's utility is threat generation, which means it is incredibly weak as a pvp skill. It seems like whatever it does, it should be useful to both PvE and PvP.
This is another issue with the ability. Every other class' Tab ability is useful in all aspects of play. Even if it worked, it has negligible usefulness in both solo play and pvp.
I think this boils down to two separate issues. First, marking alone isn't especially useful. It isn't a button I enjoy pushing, even when tanking. Second, the ability is almost solely designed for tanking (I know it applies a damage resistance debuff, but I find you're better off just doing damage). It's just not good in pvp or solo play. Even if the skill was totally awesome at what it did, it would still be poorly designed overall.
I'd rather see the button used as a mark punishment mechanic, maybe allowing fighters to deliver damage to marked targets that aren't focused on us. Seems more useful overall, and more in line with how 4th edition fighters actually work.
I never even use it in PVP anymore, its almost impossible to keep it up and the only reason you would want it in PVP is the damage resistance shred which is about 5%-10% ish I think.
Did they break it?
And that's one of the main reasons GF are in a bad way really, their control scheme is HORRIBLE!
You can actually Mark and then be hit before managing to guard. Marking while tanking multiple mobs is also a pain in the *** since they will chew through your guard quickly and then you're unable to mark for an extended period of time.
No good reason for mark to go away when you get hit. None at all.
Change enhanced mark to grant 100% increase in personal DPS and maybe I will like that button :P
What GF have? Some useless mark... You even need to spend feat points +1 class feature to make at least something so small as 10% DR + extra threat from it. And still in boss fight / combat threating rush take care of mark much better. Damage + AOE mark...
If this TAB skill marks all targets in the area around fighter + generate some initial threat and w/o this ridiculos CD it will be worth at least something.
Or, as already suggested, allow us to put encounter there. This encounter now marks target + generate 2x threat - problem solved.
1.) Add the performance metrics of Enhanced Mark into basic mark, i.e. by default and without further investment, you get the doubled threat generation and automatically building threat. This is the only way Mark actually works. It's kind of crummy that Guardian currently needs to spend points just to make a basic class ability do what it's supposed to do.
2.) Mark is not cleared by being hit, only by:
a.) dropping below 25% health.
b.) time, divided among targets marked. That is, a single target mark might last a minute but marking half a dozen targets only lasts seconds.
c.) being stunned or disabled
3.) Targets are Marked by using Stab on them, corresponding to the way this at-will's description says that it's a taunt.
4.) The Shield Talent class feature adds a large portion of Deflection value to Guard capacity when slotted. If you want people to draw tons of aggro, then they need to be able to survive it. Which means Guard needs to not be a lousy defense if players build for it. (Deflection, not Defense, because guardian gear already comes with gobs of Defense and it's not exactly a challenge to get high Defense)
5.) Change obsolete Enhanced Mark's class feature slot to "Enraged Weakness". This class feature further reduces the enemy's defense value when they are marked. Gives solo players, and players in teams that don't necessarily need a straight tank, something useful to contribute. Currently I can't even tell the difference in damage between marked/not-marked targets except with statistical analysis of combat logs.