Need real developer communication, not macros

dixa1 · May 2013

sominator wrote: »

Hey all, thanks for letting us know your thoughts about healing! We're continually working to make the game better and better. This feedback helps us to do that! Cheers!

the community could do with less pr and marketing speak and more actual facts.

the community could do with less foundry spotlights but desperately needs an actual dev letter outlining the problems they acknowledge, problems that are actually intentional design and what they are doing to address these topics.

do i really need to create a dozen or so hyperlinks here from a dozen or so other mmorpg companies to teach your company HOW you are supposed to communicate with your customer base soon after launch? is that really needed here or can one of you get with it and communicate with your playerbase with something more than this contrivance?

the above quoted text has been put into nearly every thread today, almost word for word.

it's been nearly 3 weeks since launch and we are overdue for a producers' letter on the various issues that have been brought up since then.

bcvapor · May 2013

At least the copy/paste isn't "Thanks for the feedback, don't forget to purchase more Zen!".

On the other hand, it's about as meaningful.

bluedarky · May 2013

The reasons why they use this copy paste is for a very simple reason.

The Community Manager has very strict protocols on what they're allowed to say to us on issues in the game, if they say anything that could be considered a promise then it makes the company look bad when said promise isn't met.

Simply put, the community manager values being able to feed his family which he can't do if he starts breaking the rules of what he's allowed too say.

spyke2009 · May 2013

bluedarky wrote: »

The reasons why they use this copy paste is for a very simple reason.

The Community Manager has very strict protocols on what they're allowed to say to us on issues in the game, if they say anything that could be considered a promise then it makes the company look bad when said promise isn't met.

Simply put, the community manager values being able to feed his family which he can't do if he starts breaking the rules of what he's allowed too say.

This.

Though they REALLY do get irritating with the copypasta response lol.

dixa1 · May 2013

bluedarky wrote: »

The reasons why they use this copy paste is for a very simple reason.

The Community Manager has very strict protocols on what they're allowed to say to us on issues in the game, if they say anything that could be considered a promise then it makes the company look bad when said promise isn't met.

Simply put, the community manager values being able to feed his family which he can't do if he starts breaking the rules of what he's allowed too say.

yep well aware of the muzzles put on mmo community managers in recent years, which is why i'm asking for a developer to communicate with us and not community managers who basically police the forums. we are overdue for a word on whether or not the current mechanics we see in t2 are working as intended, if we are supposed to be stacking clerics and wizzies and knocking all of the massive add spawns off ledges in order to complete them. we need to know if cleric threat reduction is working at all or if this is intended. we need to know if guardian fighters are actually supposed to tank and whether or not a rogues ability to tank is intended or not.

the folks in charge of sto communicate far more often about issues like the invisible torpedo and lackluster carrier pet ai and i bet we will see more communication from sto devs soon after the launch of the romulan legacy pack well before we hear a peep from the game developers here. that's just...there is no other word for it but unacceptable.

we are overdue, and it would be better if a community manager didn't post at all vs. posting what is quite frankly a macro'd statement derived from any number of 'how to be a middle manager' self help books.

spyke2009 · May 2013

dixa1 wrote: »

yep well aware of the muzzles put on mmo community managers in recent years, which is why i'm asking for a developer to communicate with us and not community managers who basically police the forums. we are overdue for a word on whether or not the current mechanics we see in t2 are working as intended, if we are supposed to be stacking clerics and wizzies and knocking all of the massive add spawns off ledges in order to complete them. we need to know if cleric threat reduction is working at all or if this is intended. we need to know if guardian fighters are actually supposed to tank and whether or not a rogues ability to tank is intended or not.

we are overdue, and it would be better if a community manager didn't post at all vs. posting what is quite frankly a macro'd statement derived from any number of 'how to be a middle manager' self help books.

LoL loved the last comment.

But alas, I fear that your post is made under the assumption that the developers aren't muzzled themselves.

bluedarky · May 2013

dixa1 wrote: »

yep well aware of the muzzles put on mmo community managers in recent years, which is why i'm asking for a developer to communicate with us and not community managers who basically police the forums. we are overdue for a word on whether or not the current mechanics we see in t2 are working as intended, if we are supposed to be stacking clerics and wizzies and knocking all of the massive add spawns off ledges in order to complete them. we need to know if cleric threat reduction is working at all or if this is intended. we need to know if guardian fighters are actually supposed to tank and whether or not a rogues ability to tank is intended or not.

the folks in charge of sto communicate far more often about issues like the invisible torpedo and lackluster carrier pet ai and i bet we will see more communication from sto devs soon after the launch of the romulan legacy pack well before we hear a peep from the game developers here. that's just...there is no other word for it but unacceptable.

we are overdue, and it would be better if a community manager didn't post at all vs. posting what is quite frankly a macro'd statement derived from any number of 'how to be a middle manager' self help books.

Personally speaking I'd rather that the developers actually got on with fixing the bugs and exploits in the game rather than acknowledging everything we say on the forums.

Besides if you checked the dev tracker you'd see that devs do come onto the forums from time to time, just mainly in the class forums and the general foundry forum.

dixa1 · May 2013

bluedarky wrote: »

Personally speaking I'd rather that the developers actually got on with fixing the bugs and exploits in the game rather than acknowledging everything we say on the forums.

Besides if you checked the dev tracker you'd see that devs do come onto the forums from time to time, just mainly in the class forums and the general foundry forum.

actually the only dev comment was about the gf exploit and that they basically are considering their next steps.

everything else is from the same community manager, with the same nearly cut-and-paste approach.

the ONLY reponses given to any threads about any issues related to this game beyond what was posted about nobody being banned about the gf exploit has been the following..and i'm not paraphrasing here:

"thanks, we're looking into it"

i'm sorry but the community needs more. when the topic at hand is asking why do so many adds spawn in boss encounters that immediately latch onto the healers, is this intended and if it's intended why does the tank class not have tools to deal with this?

the answer of 'thanks for your feedback we're looking into this' is not actually an answer. it's a placebo.

bcvapor · May 2013

bluedarky wrote: »

Personally speaking I'd rather that the developers actually got on with fixing the bugs and exploits in the game rather than acknowledging everything we say on the forums.

See, you lose any credibility when you jump right to strawman arguments. No one said we "want the devs to acknowledge everything we say". Let's leave aside the logical fallacy of the devs not developing because of taking the 5 minutes to post, lol. Gosh, if they get a coffee, how much dev time is that?!

This indicates you don't actually have an argument against what was suggested, so you make up a ridiculous argument to argue against instead. This further suggests you are arguing simply to argue. See, we already forgot whatever it was you were failing to say. Darn it!

bluedarky · May 2013

dixa1 wrote: »

actually the only dev comment was about the gf exploit and that they basically are considering their next steps.

everything else is from the same community manager, with the same nearly cut-and-paste approach.

the ONLY reponses given to any threads about any issues related to this game beyond what was posted about nobody being banned about the gf exploit has been the following..and i'm not paraphrasing here:

"thanks, we're looking into it"

i'm sorry but the community needs more. when the topic at hand is asking why do so many adds spawn in boss encounters that immediately latch onto the healers, is this intended and if it's intended why does the tank class not have tools to deal with this?

the answer of 'thanks for your feedback we're looking into this' is not actually an answer. it's a placebo.

dixa1 · May 2013

bcvapor wrote: »

See, you lose any credibility when you jump right to strawman arguments. No one said we "want the devs to acknowledge everything we say". Let's leave aside the logical fallacy of the devs not developing because of taking the 5 minutes to post, lol. Gosh, if they get a coffee, how much dev time is that?!

This indicates you don't actually have an argument against what was suggested, so you make up a ridiculous argument to argue against instead. This further suggests you are arguing simply to argue. See, we already forgot whatever it was you were failing to say. Darn it!

yes i'm not asking devs to respond to everything, i'm asking them to respond to..something..and to respond in earnest.

there are some large issues and some small issues on the forums. the large ones have been issues for 3 weeks and need to be addressed - gf tanking, dc healing, reason for gf/gwf to exist in a dungeon, simple boss mechanics made superficially hard by massive add spawns that are just knocked off ledges, the price of respecs and whether or not meaningful changes to classes will warrant free respecs for those classes or will they be hosed until they pay for the respec out of their wallets or with diamonds.

so far none of those issues has been acknowledged with anything outside of a 'thanks for your feedback' response. after a certain point that is no longer acceptable to the customer.

dixa1 · May 2013

bluedarky wrote: »

The following posts were made by devs in the last 2-3 days(2 days for me, might be three elsewhere though).

http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=3198642&viewfull=1#post3198642
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=3186632&viewfull=1#post3186632
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=3186532&viewfull=1#post3186532
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=3177692&viewfull=1#post3177692
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=3168782&viewfull=1#post3168782
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=3167731&viewfull=1#post3167731
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=3166882&viewfull=1#post3166882
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=3166882&viewfull=1#post3166882
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=3163342&viewfull=1#post3163342
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=3160301&viewfull=1#post3160301
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=3159662&viewfull=1#post3159662
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=3158952&viewfull=1#post3158952
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=3155181&viewfull=1#post3155181
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=3120592&viewfull=1#post3120592
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=3117981&viewfull=1#post3117981

Yep, devs are being really silent.

Oh, and for reference, there's 2 1/2 pages of posts from today on the dev tracker, from your post you only checked the first page.

not a single one of those links goes to any of the major issues plaguing people doing end game dungeons except handful that are clearly about the gf exploit - something i specifically addressed already.

bluedarky · May 2013

bcvapor wrote: »

See, you lose any credibility when you jump right to strawman arguments. No one said we "want the devs to acknowledge everything we say". Let's leave aside the logical fallacy of the devs not developing because of taking the 5 minutes to post, lol. Gosh, if they get a coffee, how much dev time is that?!

This indicates you don't actually have an argument against what was suggested, so you make up a ridiculous argument to argue against instead. This further suggests you are arguing simply to argue. See, we already forgot whatever it was you were failing to say. Darn it!

This isn't exactly a strawman argument, you see when a topic gets dev attention people then start demanding that another 5 topics get dev attention and ends up with people demanding everything gets it.

Either way my point stands, I'd rather that they worked on fixing the issues than give reassurances that they were fixing the issues.

bluedarky · May 2013

dixa1 wrote: »

not a single one of those links goes to any of the major issues plaguing people doing end game dungeons except handful that are clearly about the gf exploit - something i specifically addressed already.

There's three possible explanations for why this is -

The devs working on it are under a gag order about how they're being fixed similar to the Community Manager.
They're working to fix the issues and don't want to waste time just giving vague reassurances they're working on it.
All of the above.

ceonnyn · May 2013

bluedarky wrote: »

There's three possible explanations for why this is -
The devs working on it are under a gag order about how they're being fixed similar to the Community Manager.

They're working to fix the issues and don't want to waste time just giving vague reassurances they're working on it.

All of the above.

My thoughts are

4) After open beta launch, most devs repurposed to other unannounced project. Remaining devs are second tier, can't figure out exploit problem until first tier dev brought back in to fix it. End result - inexperienced programmers trying to fix stuff without support. No producer response as he will get canned by the Chinese if he says something

Or

5) After open beta launch, most devs laid off to increase revenue for quarter. Remaining devs overwhelmed with workload and trying to fix bugs, compounded by a lack in leadership to identify priorities. Still nothing from producer. No mention of priorities. Instead players charged money to respec out of broken feats. No test server. Players pay for beta with zen and respec purchases in order to get fixes.

lyokira · May 2013

6) They don't want to give further promises on things they aren't sure themselves.

dixa1 · May 2013

lyokira wrote: »

6) They don't want to give further promises on things they aren't sure themselves.

for some of the issues at hand this may be the case

however one issue at hand - how encounters are at their base designed to be tackled ie. with what group/role makeup - should be addressed sooner than later.

the first month makes or breaks an mmorpg. doesn't matter if it's free, b2p or p2p

Need real developer communication, not macros

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