hsinrogMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
I have purposely been leveling an Oppressor CW alt to test out the viability of the spec. Thanks gnesi for posting your build and stats layout, it's nice to know that the spec seems viable as a control build.
When it comes to end game comparison, I'll have to wait and see how the two builds seem to fair in my group. I like have the alts with the specs since I don't have to worry about different gear sets/stats for the same character.
I am not yet 60 on my Oppressor, but the one thing I will say is that Chilling Cloud seems to be fairly underwhelming so far when compared to the other At will powers. Part of the reason is that the 'Chill' affect does not last long enough for it to be of great benefit (though perhaps at 60 with more chill based feats it will be), and that the 3rd hit AoE seems to be rather small (At least from game play it appears to be much smaller than the AoE from tabbed Chill Strike).
If the 'Chill' debuff were longer allowing Chilling cloud to eventually build up to 6 stacks as ray of frost does and the AoE larger I think it would be a more viable skill. Obviously, players like gnesi can give better feedback having played with it more extensively at 60, but so far I feel that particular At Will needs some sort of buff to make it comparable with the benefits of MM or RoF.
It is true that I don't think that the current content requires more control than the renegade or the thaumaturge wizard has access to, but that is just the current content. There is also level 60 foundry questing. It is fairly overtuned (the combat heavy quests anyway) and I find it a bit annoying to do them with my renegade wizard. It's not that they are not do-able, but you do have everything on you. I think Oppressor may be a good way to go for this, too.
How it really works in T2s, I don't know. I have never played with an Oppressor wizard, especially not one who geared for it. It is unlikely, at the current time, to be as good as the renegade build, for end game group PvP. But how much worse it is, that is something I want to find out. I write this "blog" while I level mostly to keep myself motivated and to give newer players a bit of an idea how leveling works with this build. (Most guides are written at 60, for 60.)
Since you mentioned a tank build, actually, that is on my mind too, but also chiefly for solo content. There's my 180ms+ ping, there is rubberbanding, there is playing without caffeine. I sort of doubt it is do-able, though, but yes, it's something I may give a whirl. I can afford a few respec tokens! The human's 3% def don't seem to make a difference. In Unspecifiederror's build 2.0 cleric video (in the master list), he talked a bit about it and how little the actual value is. The Tiefling's Infernal Wrath racial may be more efficient, for tanking. (I know you were only semi-serious, but hey, I did ponder the viability of a battle/tank wizard, too!)
I love the idea of a battle mage, and I've considered respeccing my lvl 60 Renegade to Oppressor. Less for the chill stacks and more for CC and survival. I wanted to make a mage tank, but wasn't sure if the respec was worth it and if the idea would actually work.
Commanding Officer of Task Force Midnight
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gnesiMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 8Arc User
edited May 2013
That's pretty much what I've done with mine is make is very survivable. Freeze offers that more than most realize. As for chilling cloud its a situational skill. For PUGs is priceless as it helps keep that many more mobs cc'd along with icy terrain and conduit as well as the damage reduction. With a premade group that knows whats going on MM is usually your best bet for the extra damage it provides. That being said some fights like Lair of the mad dragon or the pirate king boss its almost required to keep the insane amount of mobs controlled.
As far as PvP is concerned chilling Cloud is worthless as far as I can see.
Run my build one time and the cleric you run with will love you forever. It really is funny to see the reactions you get from these clerics when they don't have to run in circles like <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>'s
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thrishfishMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 13Arc User
edited May 2013
I really want to like Icy Terrain, but I find that it hides enemy ground target abilities a little too well for me :-(
That's pretty much what I've done with mine is make is very survivable. Freeze offers that more than most realize. As for chilling cloud its a situational skill. For PUGs is priceless as it helps keep that many more mobs cc'd along with icy terrain and conduit as well as the damage reduction. With a premade group that knows whats going on MM is usually your best bet for the extra damage it provides. That being said some fights like Lair of the mad dragon or the pirate king boss its almost required to keep the insane amount of mobs controlled.
As far as PvP is concerned chilling Cloud is worthless as far as I can see.
Run my build one time and the cleric you run with will love you forever. It really is funny to see the reactions you get from these clerics when they don't have to run in circles like <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>'s
More survival is what I'm looking for really. In a good group, I do fine. The crits are nice, and I can CC pretty well. But in a not so good group, I get squashed more often that I'd like. I mostly pug, and doing T2 right now, and I wanted to have a build that wasn't so squishy and can keep adds useless so the real damage dealers can take down the boss safely and the cleric can do his/her job without too much stress. I don't like it when games are so dps oriented that nobody worries about support, even though support can be as big as the damage itself. Sure, I can top the damage charts at times over other CW and TR, all other times I come in at second, but that's not what I wanted for my CW. I wanted more emphasis on CC.
Commanding Officer of Task Force Midnight
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gnesiMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 8Arc User
edited May 2013
Then try it you wont be disappointed. To prove a point did Epic Spellplauge cavern today sans tank. The survivability my spec adds not only keeps you alive it more often than not saves your teammates even if they are bad. It just allows for even more personal survivability than ti does your groups.
The only problem is, which I just realized *facepalm*, I'm not a human, but renegade drow. So I don't have those extra three feat points. Would it be better to go 3/3 Prestidigitation and 2/5 Learned Spellcaster, or just 5/5 Learned Spellcaster?
Commanding Officer of Task Force Midnight
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gnesiMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 8Arc User
edited May 2013
3/3 prestidigitation imo as it helps everyone out and continues along with the support idea
I really want to like Icy Terrain, but I find that it hides enemy ground target abilities a little too well for me :-(
I want to like it too. I have been trying it, but it just feels very weak. Very short immobilization time (even with maxed Orb of Imposition), the area affected is too small and vanishes fast, damage is very small. Even when used together with other ice/chill spells like CoI it's very bad at controlling a crowd.
Thanks for this thread a going to have to make one of these . My question is - is it worth making a halfling for the smaller hitbox (PvP) or is the game just not programmed like that ? Thanks for any replies .
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hsinrogMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Thanks for this thread a going to have to make one of these . My question is - is it worth making a halfling for the smaller hitbox (PvP) or is the game just not programmed like that ? Thanks for any replies .
I've never noticed any hitbox six difference in PvP personally. At least not one that mattered enough to be a race other than Human or Tiefling. Smart Targeting kind of negates the hitbox issue anyhow, as the targeting reticle doesn't even have to be directly on a person in most cases. Some people turn off smart targeting for more precision, but there are still enough people who use it I've found, especially if you are pugging.
I want to like it too. I have been trying it, but it just feels very weak. Very short immobilization time (even with maxed Orb of Imposition), the area affected is too small and vanishes fast, damage is very small. Even when used together with other ice/chill spells like CoI it's very bad at controlling a crowd.
I've had difficulty placing it properly, as well. Seems like it would almost be, counter-intuitively, better on a Renegade, since they're in Reaper's Touch range anyway. The Oppressor is farther from the fight. And, yes, you could put it in your Tab slot, but you get more out of almost any other spell you put there.
That said, I find it's a decent enough defensive skill for kiting away mobs that spawn on me. Icy Terrain -> Teleport works ok for getting out of sticky situations while solo. Something else (Sudden Storm?) is probably better in groups, though.
Just wanted to say thanks for the awesome exchange of thoughts and experiences in this thread so far! Quite a bit of useful material and food for thought on the Oppressor!
I updated the original post and completed the 20-30 level section. It feels a little meaningless in light of all the 60 discussion that is taken place, but it documents my thought process as I become more familiar with the Oppressor build and, actually, some of what I observe affects my Renegade build, too, which I may post some tweaks for soon. (I may cave in and admit that Toughness is nice, but not essential. )
If I let bugged feats discourage me, I would not play a CW of any flavor! In fact, I would only play the TR and nothing else. But this is still a beta (I know, I know) and I'm having plenty of fun with the class.
@gensi: I've been toying around a bit with your build (those respec tokens get obscenely expensive after a while) and I wonder what your rationale is for choosing Battlewise (6% less threat)? Have you tried without it? Seeing how threat currently seems broken and even the Cleric's Sooth (20%) seems to have barely any noticeable effect, I'm not sure 3 points is a worthwhile investment here (also zero use in PvP or foundry/solo PvE).
I think I would use one of those three points to max out Controlling Action and put two into Weapon Mastery for +2% crit.
To be honest, I would have done CoI tabbed since it generates a wider area, an extra tick, and increases chill every tick. Combine that with Icy Terrain and Sudden Storm. There, you're done.
Also, in light of your other thread, I don't really see the point of battlewise; the cleric and GF will get aggro way before you do.
all i can say is that this build is balanced in control effects and damage. yes, it may deal lesser damage than other builds BUT not that really low (it may just differ a bit)
Also theres a chance to maximize the full potential of cold damage (it may outdamage other builds)
but you have to mix it with arcane (stack arcane mastery, put arcane and chilling presence as your passive powers)
Arcane Mastery - also increases the damage of your Cold based attacks by 34% of the buff value.
Chilling presence - Increases the damage you deal by 1% for each stack of Chill on your target.
heroic feats:
Blighting Power - Your Cold powers deal an additional 3/6/9% damage to targets affected by Chill
oppressor feats:
Bitter Cold - You gain 1/2/3/4/5% increased damage after afflicting an enemy with Chill. (This bonus lasts 6 seconds and does not stack)
and for me
Thau = full damage
Renegade = weakens enemy, a debuff build
Regarding pvp,
not to boast but most of the time im top 1 in pvp, i can win 1 vs 1 on thau and renegade..yes they may hit so hard on me, but faster cooldowns and longer control is the key.
ALSO you may win over 1 vs 2 with faster cooldowns and longer control, hold the other guy while you chillin the other guy.
i wish i had really documented my journey, didnt have much time. im a busy man sorry
LASTLY TO THAT GUY (TulakHord, not sure with the IGN) WHO SAID THAT OPPRESSORS SUCKS, THAT NOBODY NEEDS AND OPPRESSOR.. FCK U! HAHA. WISH THERE'S 1 ON 1 PVP HERE
I sent you a PM about this, but got no response. It's not in my sent box, so it probably didn't go through.
Why are there 4 points in Severe Reaction and 1 point in Brisk Transport? Is the 2% movement increase really worth not maxing Severe Reaction?
Also, is Reaper's Touch still worth getting after the nerf? I am at 55 now and highly considering just maxing Brisk Transport and Severe Reaction instead.
Comments
When it comes to end game comparison, I'll have to wait and see how the two builds seem to fair in my group. I like have the alts with the specs since I don't have to worry about different gear sets/stats for the same character.
I am not yet 60 on my Oppressor, but the one thing I will say is that Chilling Cloud seems to be fairly underwhelming so far when compared to the other At will powers. Part of the reason is that the 'Chill' affect does not last long enough for it to be of great benefit (though perhaps at 60 with more chill based feats it will be), and that the 3rd hit AoE seems to be rather small (At least from game play it appears to be much smaller than the AoE from tabbed Chill Strike).
If the 'Chill' debuff were longer allowing Chilling cloud to eventually build up to 6 stacks as ray of frost does and the AoE larger I think it would be a more viable skill. Obviously, players like gnesi can give better feedback having played with it more extensively at 60, but so far I feel that particular At Will needs some sort of buff to make it comparable with the benefits of MM or RoF.
I love the idea of a battle mage, and I've considered respeccing my lvl 60 Renegade to Oppressor. Less for the chill stacks and more for CC and survival. I wanted to make a mage tank, but wasn't sure if the respec was worth it and if the idea would actually work.
As far as PvP is concerned chilling Cloud is worthless as far as I can see.
Run my build one time and the cleric you run with will love you forever. It really is funny to see the reactions you get from these clerics when they don't have to run in circles like <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>'s
More survival is what I'm looking for really. In a good group, I do fine. The crits are nice, and I can CC pretty well. But in a not so good group, I get squashed more often that I'd like. I mostly pug, and doing T2 right now, and I wanted to have a build that wasn't so squishy and can keep adds useless so the real damage dealers can take down the boss safely and the cleric can do his/her job without too much stress. I don't like it when games are so dps oriented that nobody worries about support, even though support can be as big as the damage itself. Sure, I can top the damage charts at times over other CW and TR, all other times I come in at second, but that's not what I wanted for my CW. I wanted more emphasis on CC.
I've never noticed any hitbox six difference in PvP personally. At least not one that mattered enough to be a race other than Human or Tiefling. Smart Targeting kind of negates the hitbox issue anyhow, as the targeting reticle doesn't even have to be directly on a person in most cases. Some people turn off smart targeting for more precision, but there are still enough people who use it I've found, especially if you are pugging.
I've had difficulty placing it properly, as well. Seems like it would almost be, counter-intuitively, better on a Renegade, since they're in Reaper's Touch range anyway. The Oppressor is farther from the fight. And, yes, you could put it in your Tab slot, but you get more out of almost any other spell you put there.
That said, I find it's a decent enough defensive skill for kiting away mobs that spawn on me. Icy Terrain -> Teleport works ok for getting out of sticky situations while solo. Something else (Sudden Storm?) is probably better in groups, though.
I updated the original post and completed the 20-30 level section. It feels a little meaningless in light of all the 60 discussion that is taken place, but it documents my thought process as I become more familiar with the Oppressor build and, actually, some of what I observe affects my Renegade build, too, which I may post some tweaks for soon. (I may cave in and admit that Toughness is nice, but not essential.
I think I would use one of those three points to max out Controlling Action and put two into Weapon Mastery for +2% crit.
Also, in light of your other thread, I don't really see the point of battlewise; the cleric and GF will get aggro way before you do.
all i can say is that this build is balanced in control effects and damage. yes, it may deal lesser damage than other builds BUT not that really low (it may just differ a bit)
Also theres a chance to maximize the full potential of cold damage (it may outdamage other builds)
but you have to mix it with arcane (stack arcane mastery, put arcane and chilling presence as your passive powers)
Arcane Mastery - also increases the damage of your Cold based attacks by 34% of the buff value.
Chilling presence - Increases the damage you deal by 1% for each stack of Chill on your target.
heroic feats:
Blighting Power - Your Cold powers deal an additional 3/6/9% damage to targets affected by Chill
oppressor feats:
Bitter Cold - You gain 1/2/3/4/5% increased damage after afflicting an enemy with Chill. (This bonus lasts 6 seconds and does not stack)
and for me
Thau = full damage
Renegade = weakens enemy, a debuff build
Regarding pvp,
not to boast but most of the time im top 1 in pvp, i can win 1 vs 1 on thau and renegade..yes they may hit so hard on me, but faster cooldowns and longer control is the key.
ALSO you may win over 1 vs 2 with faster cooldowns and longer control, hold the other guy while you chillin the other guy.
i wish i had really documented my journey, didnt have much time. im a busy man sorry
LASTLY TO THAT GUY (TulakHord, not sure with the IGN) WHO SAID THAT OPPRESSORS SUCKS, THAT NOBODY NEEDS AND OPPRESSOR.. FCK U! HAHA. WISH THERE'S 1 ON 1 PVP HERE
this is an ongoing epic mad dragon, my GS is 8k only. other teammates have higher GS.
#1 me (oppressor)
#2 is a rogue
#3 GF
#4 rogue
#5 cleric
Why are there 4 points in Severe Reaction and 1 point in Brisk Transport? Is the 2% movement increase really worth not maxing Severe Reaction?
Also, is Reaper's Touch still worth getting after the nerf? I am at 55 now and highly considering just maxing Brisk Transport and Severe Reaction instead.