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Is tanking for groups easier in this game compared to wow?
losse1
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
I'm just curious what the GF think.
"The sum of the whole is this: walk and be happy; walk and be healthy. The best way to lengthen out our days is to walk steadily and with a purpose." -Charles Dickens
Post edited by losse1 on
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Less easy. If you want a more passive class, play CW. GS is alot of work ALOT.
Clerics pull threat for fun, especially on certain mobs (near no matter how much you threaten them). So need to protect them, while stopping the rest of the mobs from breaking the line/aggro.
Also mobs are extremely touchy. If you ignore them for a second to pull other aggro, they will lose threat and start attacking others.
Regards.
Tanking on wow is noticeable. Tanking on this game is not. Because of the threat issues that exist in this game. you are more or less there for decoration. No groups need a tanks, all groups need heals tho.
They need tanks it is just 2 clerics make everyone 2x as good as a GF at tanking.
ive cleared dungeons with a tank and dungeons without it. The only difference is we had more heals. Threat was still all over the place with the tank
And yeah i have a GF and the tanking is lacking a decent threat mechanic, or rather threat does not work, the mobs are touchy as was mentioned. I really like the way the class plays though with the skills and flow of combat.
Cleric plays really nice too.
I hope they fix the threat issues with the class. But im still enjoying it all the same.
I try to keep threat on the big guys the trash mobs anyone can handle as long as they are not over whelmed. If so you need to step in. Clerics tend to get over whelmed, I try to stay with in charge range at all time to my cleric, and keep one eye on them.
You will have a harder time getting aggro. You won't even be tanking everything. But it doesn't matter like in wow, where almost every mob had to be tanked.
No, with this strange aggro mechanic its easier to take second cleric instead. Cleric can heal better than tank and do threat better than tank, lol. And dat stacking blue circles :eek: And no, tank cannot control large groups of monsters in this game, especially when there is a cleric in the party and when there is a lot of ads summoned again and again.
We can sustain large quantities of damage depending on our feats and equipment, plus we have block; but as mentioned before some people run dungeons without tanks with great success.
there are some ways you can compare the two games..the mechanics of individual class's is not one of them. tanking in wow is nothing like tanking in this game or vice versa except in the sense that both games have tanks, they both both do the same jobs ( or they would in guardians actually generated much threat).
and ultimately they are 2 huge barriers , assuming for one second that it actually is possible to compare them, separating the two games... time and money..blizz have millions to invest in wow and have done so over an 8 year period. in that sense alone comparing the 2 games is ultimately flawed.
let us presume for just a second that guardians tank where working as intended... then in the over arcing sense, the two archetypes would be very similar..i dont find tanking in this game hard..i dont find tanking in wow hard...if there is any difficulty right now..its simply coz the class is broken. right now the hardest part of tanking has nothing really to do do with the tank despite being broken. every1 knows tanks are broke..but...does your cleric strip his gear then replace it ( a known significant reduction of threat and temporary current threat fix)... do the dps mindlessly charge in and start aoeing before you have spread mark and layed down some snap aggro? do the cc'ers randomly knock stuff around the room, whether its necessary or not, coz even a working tank cant stack threat on a target some HAMSTER is knocking away from him. these are common issues in games that are not broken... and right now its the prevalent issue in game with tanking in most pug groups. the tanks being broken is a side issue, yes it needs to be fixed...but all the fix's in the world wont patch the stupidity of stupid ppl in your group working against you.
Never did Panda, but tanking in WOW was all about min-maxing stats rather than actual game play. Once you got the right stats, everything fell into place. That's because the game had really easy threat mechanics that allowed any tank class to hold AOE threat very easily. The only real "skill" involved was managing cool downs and knowing boss encounters and when to use said cool downs.
Neverwinter is just plain ****ed. There's a lot of people who go on about "interesting mechanics" but these are the same people who go to an art gallery and see a blank canvas and say, "Hrm thought provoking!" The reality is the tanking mechanics are bad, bugged and broken which causes players to go to extremes to be able to hold threat. Those who don't go to those extremes don't hold threat, don't do any damage and generally feel/are worthless. I've been there myself when I first started.
The mechanics are bugged because they don't work as described. Mark is supposed to last until you hit with a non shielded attack (IE: Cleave) and isn't supposed to disappear when you get hit if you read the description. Mark instead falls off when they hit you with an attack that isn't shielded including a huge variety of abilities that don't actually hit you for damage but still count (IE: Teleports, reflect shields, etc). This could be a typo and they meant it to work the way it is, but if so that's bad mechanics.
The mechanics are bad because with Mark falling off when getting hit means you're constantly having to reapply Mark. Guard in later game (IE: Epic dungeons) will last all of around 1-2 seconds when even basic level mobs are swinging for huge amounts of damage. Many boss abilities will one shot Guard. This means staying in Guard full time to maintain Mark is unfeasible and you will have to take some hits which causes you to lose threat. While in theory I'm sure the design of keeping something marked and on you while you sit and block everything is good and works out early on it simply isn't feasible in the later part of the game. Most abilities that restore Guard (other than At Wills) are in fact broken as well and do not actually restore Guard meter leading us to the mechanics are broken.
The mechanics are broken because unless you're willing to spec your character offensively you will never be able to deal enough threat to keep a target on you compared to a Rogue's damage output or a Cleric's healing output. It is literally and mathematically impossible. More over, in order to have any hope of trying to hold threat you need to maintain Mark but there's so many passive mob abilities that remove Mark from the targets. For example phase spider teleport which doesn't hit, but it counts as a hit. There are many mobs in the game that do this.
Probably the most DAMNING reality however is the lack of unlimited targeted attacks we have. In T2 dungeons the trash packs are INSANE. I mean you're pulling 6+ mobs at the minimum in every pack and bosses can have upwards of 10-20 adds come on them as you fight. I can't just not target the weak mobs and eventually after they are dead I will target the larger ones but up until then all I can do is swing and hope my taunts/cleave hit the targets they need to in order to hold threat. This has nothing to do with "wanting to tank everything like a WOW ****" and everything to do with wanting to actually freaking be able to hit the targets I do want to tank (the big hard hitting mobs).
Now I've adjusted. I bumped my damage up to Rogue levels of DPS and am capable of holding threat on any single target over any other class and do pretty well in a pack. Sometimes things get away from me, but again that mostly comes back to the target cap and there's nothing I can really do about it except hope Villain's Menace is up. Hard not to see why people wouldn't just go with two Clerics because now you've turned everyone into a super tank and our role becomes irrelevant.
If you want to tank roll a Cleric.
GF currently have one functioning tree 'DPS'
Protection is 50% bugged
Tactics is broken and worthless because threat is really messed up in this game.
The 'Trinity' is broken and currently GF has no real role in that model once you reach end game.
In fact, this easing in the basic mechanics was the beginning of the end of the game for me. Finest guild I'd ever played any game with, but I just couldn't tolerate being dumbed down to that level.
Now, for what might be a bit harder in WoW compared to here. Raid position on some encounters had the potential to require a great deal of precision, all in the hands of the tank. A genuine, time sensitive taunt swap required that level of communication and timing--while a tank thing, it was really more of an organized team thing to handle this encounter mechanic.
Honestly, I hope the class itself very nearly working, as intended here. I'd like to see mark be less clunky, but I'd like to see overall threat be tenuous, and staying ahead of good DPS something that is a mark of a good tank---WoW used to have that. I do think it's possible that some classes make entirely too much threat, probably due both to bugs and problematic priority tables, but as a general way of going about things, I rather like not being FORCED to lap up every single mob in every single encounter into a neatly bunched, tightly choreographed and perfectly threated pile for DPS to leisurely concentrate on little else but their hotbar.
So some of you are doing something right, even if it is maxing damage